Let's Be Enamored...with Katherine Heigl 50:06

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This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a new episode of Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. I am over the moon right now because I have somebody that I have admired for a long time, Katherine Heigl. Like, you guys know her. 27 dresses, knocked up, like...

Grey's Anatomy, Barflying Lane, just her resume is insane. Hi, Kathy. But also, she's insane. She's definitely, well, I should just say it to your face. You're someone that I have definitely looked up to, and I admire your strength. I admire, you know, your perseverance as a woman, as an actor, and

The amount of self-respect you have and the caring you have for your other actors now as a producer and really watching out for women is astonishing to me. Oh, my God. Well, I didn't know I was coming in for this kind of intro. I'm feeling very good about myself at this moment. Well, good. Thank you. That was so nice and means a lot. Thank you.

Yeah, well, I mean, listen, I had gone, I sort of, there's a lot of similarities between us that aren't instantly recognizable to a lot of people. But like when I really looked at you and broke everything down and, you know, I was like the biggest Grey's fan and Izzy and I was like, oh my God, we're really getting Catherine on the show. I just sort of looked at it and went, wow.

There were only a few women back then that stood up for themselves. Well, you were the original, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I got fired for it multiple times. You know, you just, you kept going and it was really impressive. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know any person except for you that turns down an Emmy nomination. Well, I didn't. And everybody keeps saying that I didn't turn it down. You know, you have to submit yourself. You have to submit your work and then they deliberate and then they decide if they want to give you a nomination. I just didn't submit my work that year. And I should, you know, I don't know. My mother and I were talking about this recently. I should have said nothing. I should have said nothing. I should have just said, oh, I forgot.

Because it created such a maelstrom that was so unnecessary. And it really was, yeah, I was kind of trying to make a bit of a snarky point about my material that year. But I was also just not feeling my material. I didn't think I had anything that warranted even the consideration for a nomination. I just wasn't proud of my work. So it was really, you know, I would never be so bold or so

arrogant to turn down a nomination, I would take that nomination. If it came my way, I'd be down. But I just knew, you know, there wasn't anything that would really warrant one that year. And

I was trying to be honorable, I guess. I was trying to have some integrity. I wasn't trying to be a dick. Right. But you know, what's funny is that had it been obviously a guy, they would have said like, oh, look at how honorable he is. And instead, because you're a woman and, you know, certainly back then, it was a lot different than it is now. Although, yeah.

I'm the naysayer who's like, we haven't really changed that much in the business, you guys. Not a ton.

It's just a little more subversive now. It's a little more... Yes. Yes. They like to be a little bit more quiet about it of how, you know, the men still really lead the charge and women have a role to play. And yes, there are brave women like you that have bucked against that and said, not even trying to be, you know, arrogant, which they want to call you, not trying to be difficult, which they want to call you. I've been called all of these things as well.

I get that, but it's, it's none of that. It's the fact that you're just trying to be truthful to yourself. Right. And hold yourself to a certain standard. Yeah. It was always about that. And I, I'm very fortunate. I have my mother who has always been, you know, my biggest support system and also my partner in all of this. We are, you know, business partners. And so I always had another strong woman who kind of had my back and she

like somebody to bounce it off of. And sometimes we would rile each other up, no doubt. But most of the time it was like, I just felt like the right thing to do and the right thing to say. And she was like, yeah, I got you. You're right. You know? And so I, I don't know that I would have been quite so forthright without the support, you know, I would have been more afraid, I think, but I don't know. It shamed me for a long time. I spent probably, I

I want to say like all of my mid thirties, all like from 35 to 40, I spent just trying to be as quiet and as polite and as sweet and as just kind of disappearing as much as possible. And it still didn't work. So then I, I don't know, I hit 40 and I went, life is really too short. And

Like you said, I just want to be true to myself. I'm not trying to make... I never go out there with the intention of ever making anybody else feel bad or to bully them or to upset them or hurt feelings. That's so outside my intention. I'm sure I have on occasion by mistake or accident, but I don't like being bullied either. Yeah.

And I don't have a very sort of calm, political, rational reaction to that. I tend to get out my boxing gloves. Yeah, I mean, I completely understand that. And again, I applaud you for it because, you know, like I was, I think I was freshly fired off of Charmed when like Grey's started.

And I watched it and obviously I was a big fan of the show. But then with you and your character, there was such a vulnerability to Izzy that you brought to that character, but also like a strength to her. That was very, that I think women, particularly young, younger women needed that role.

to like see and to really understand what you could do. And then it wasn't about like sleeping your way somewhere. You know, it was about her determination in her life, all done in this, you know, very funny way. There was just such a humor about you on that show, along with a vulnerability that was like, wow, you know, that's great. Like what a character to have during that time.

Yeah, she was great. And I think that, you know, so much of that is attributed to Shonda and her creation of these characters. So much of it is attributed to the sort of lightning in a bottle of that cast together at that time, which again was kind of Shonda, you know, figuring out this...

Some of it is you can't know. You don't know how it's going to quite come together and how it's going to work, but it just did. And then as I think the writers got to know us more individually, like Izzy sort of, that's who I was at that age. I mean, I was 24, I think, when the show started and I was 32, maybe, or 31 when I left.

I was Izzy. I was really insecure. But also, I still had that fight in me. I still didn't like it when people kind of pushed me around or told me I couldn't or told me I shouldn't or told me that I wouldn't be able to kind of thing. So a lot of who she was, and it was funny because I wouldn't have said that at the time. But now looking back at her, I think that was...

That was kind of who I was then. There was a lot of just young woman insecurity, you know, just not really knowing if I had a right to like take up space. But also conviction. Like there just seemed to me with you and your character that there was a lot of conviction in being truthful and in doing what, you know, you really felt was right. Whether it be cutting that

Elbad. Yeah, there you go. Jory Elbad. I will never not know that word. But like that was, you know, for your character, that was a huge thing. And it really showed like your love for this man and your conviction for what you believe to be the right thing, which I always sort of paralleled to you as a human. I'm like, wow, you know, Catherine's going to stand up for what she really believes is right.

Which, again, particularly for back then, that was like a very big thing. And on an ensemble cast for a show that sort of came out huge right away, it was incredibly popular. I just, you know, that could not have been easy for you. I think it was. It was easy. Yeah.

until it wasn't. Because there was a moment when it sort of depended on what I was standing up for, right? So when I was sort of standing up for my co-star and, you know, coming out against bigotry and that sort of thing, it was, you know, applauded and appreciated. When I stood up for myself, it wasn't quite taken quite the same way. And so then it stopped being easy to be

um, to, to do that, to, to speak my truth. Then I, then I just shut the hell up as much as I could for a long time. And, um, I pretty much just ran away. And I, so I, I love you so much for, um, speaking to my strength, but I, I wasn't, um, I think sometimes I was, but I was also sometimes just deeply, um, I just was deeply insecure and afraid that, um,

all those opinions that had so quickly shifted were true, you know, that those opinions meant more than my own opinion of myself. And it took me till about 40 to really, to stop, you know, to stop apologizing, to stop beating myself up about it, to stop regretting the choices and decisions I'd made and the things I'd said and kind of just learn and move forward. And it

Gave me a clarity about like, okay, there are some things I don't need to get real mouthy about. You know, some things can remain behind closed doors. But there are things I will be very loud about. Screw the consequences, quite frankly. Like it taught me that I just, yeah, I want to be able to sleep at night like anybody else. I want to not feel like I am.

just played a game the whole time. It's not a game to me. You know, Hollywood is complicated. I'm sure many industries are, but it's, it's not a game and I'm not a politician. So I'm not good at that. I decided I don't care if I am or not. Yeah. I mean, I think if you think about back then as well,

Those voices that were telling you that you were wrong or, you know, making you into a villain or spoiled or whatever. You know, the majority of them, let's face it, our networks were run by men. And I think that for me personally, I look back and I'm like, well, they never really liked a very strong woman. They really liked women to know their place. Like I was told to, you know, shut up and get on my mark.

multiple times by somebody at Aaron Spelling's company. And I'd be like, wait, what? You don't pay me enough to do that. If you want me to be completely quiet and not have an opinion, you have to pay me a lot more money. So I feel better about going to work, right?

Otherwise, I need to have an opinion. I need to have a say. I need to stand up for the fact that the crew is working way too long of hours, that the actors were working long hours. 16-hour days is insane. Because what people don't realize is that it's... I always lived an hour away from where I was filming. So, I mean, it was really an 18-hour day. Yeah, at least. At least. And when you get home...

You're all sped up and jazzed and you're thinking about your day and what work you did. So you can't go to bed right away. It's exhausting. And you just keep doing that five days a week. And your weekends, you end up having no life. I know for us, it was lots of publicity on the weekends and photo shoots. And

And when you are that woman who finally looks at people and says, this is enough, you cannot abuse the crew. You can't abuse us as cast members. It doesn't go over so well. No, it's bizarre. It's actually a bizarre reaction to me. I don't, I don't really totally understand it because I think, well, wouldn't it save you money to do this more expediently? Like what, what,

I don't understand the reaction. It's such a strange industry in that it's business, but it's creative. And it's a creative collaboration. It's not a one-woman, one-man show. Not when it's television or film or most Broadway. I mean, I'm sure there are a few one-woman shows that work. But this takes everybody's collective effort.

And it's a million moving parts. I understand that that can take a minute to find a rhythm, but it should take no more than a minute, a couple of months. You know, this is... And it just costs them more money in the long run. I never quite understood what this sort of shut up and don't bite the hand that feeds you mentality was. It was like, well, you're just...

You're just wasting money as a sort of producer inside. Cause I love producing and I like have, I really love organization and I'm like, I got a plan. I got a plan. I know exactly how we can do this. And it's like, no, let's make it as chaotic and, you know, crazy and, um,

exhausting and dangerous and cost as much as possible. That sounds like a bad plan. Yeah, let's move the camera 30 times for one scene. It's a very bizarre thing that I would notice with some of our guest directors. They would come in and it was as if

They had not worked before, even though they were successful and they had worked, but they were all about like, this is my time and I'm going to stretch it as much as I want. And on like hour 14, I would be like, are you kidding? Yeah.

yeah, like we don't need to do 10 takes. We're all professionals here. We nailed it on the first take. And why do you have, you know, four different closeups of me? Like my face is not that interesting. We don't need this. It only makes so many expressions. Right. Like it was really, it would get very frustrating and I was pretty vocal about it. I also was, you know, second season I started directing and, uh,

And I was a really fast director. I was one of those that, you know, one time I wrapped before lunch. We started at 7. I got done at 12. And they were like, you can't wrap this early. And I was like, yeah, but I've already shot scenes from tomorrow. So, like, we're not going to have anything to shoot tomorrow. But they should love that. Yeah, they should have loved that. Because it saves them so much money. And production is crazy expensive. I mean... And it gives the crew a break, you know? Yes! All of a sudden, they work...

safer and more efficiently and

You know, the actors are more refreshed. We have time to like go home and have a life and learn our lines and our scene and our character more. We have just more time to put into the show to make it better. Yet it was like, no, no, no, you can't, you know, wrap before 12 hours. And I had no clue how to make it last until 12 hours. It was like, I just, I can't, I can't do this. Like it's going to be, I'm going to be quick and you guys are going to have to deal with it.

Well, you sound like my dream. So if you want to direct me, I'm in. Well, I'll direct you anytime. It would be a huge honor.

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and foundation, correct? Well, we're not supposed to have, I keep trying to get my mother to kind of slow down on the whole rescuing them ourselves thing. We don't have a staff for that. We don't have, you know, we have a beautiful ranch here in Utah. I live in Utah and we have a kennel on the ranch for like those cases that my mom just can't say no to and cannot see them be put to death. And we bring them up and we kind of give them a safe place to stay until we can

some other rescue or get them adopted, but we don't even have like really the structure for getting them posted up for adoption or any of it. So we end up with like, my mother herself personally has 14 dogs. She's almost 81 and I have six now. And it's like, okay, we need to recruit some people to step in and help because we can't take them all. But yes, we have a animal advocacy foundation. My mother, uh,

really started and named after my brother who was killed in a car accident in 86. So a long time ago, but it was my mother's way of feeling like she could give him a legacy that he couldn't give himself and do something that was really inspiring and passionate for her. And for me, we're just big animal people and we have a huge crisis in our country. And so for the last, I want to say 15 years, we've been

You get like my mother keeps saying it's sort of like the mafia. Like once you're in, you're in, you can't get out because once you know and you're made aware and you see it, you can't you can't turn away. So we just keep plugging along, trying to make a difference. It's tough. It's one of those problems that there is a solution there.

It's just to get everybody on board to move in that direction is difficult. So many opinions and people involved, laws and lawmakers, but we're trying. So yeah, it's really a passion. Yeah. I mean, I know it's, it's really bad here in Los Angeles that like Downey and there's a couple of rescues, like not rescues, but shelters that are,

really bad that the rate that they euthanize the dogs is insane. Like the dogs are there for a couple of days held in the back, not even seen. Yeah. It's, it's almost impossible. And I can't even blame the shelter workers or the shelters. They are so in over their heads. They are so overwhelmed. And these are not, my mom works with a lot of those shelters and with Downey and with, um,

East LA, all of it. Lancaster, all of those. Yeah. And these people are trying so hard, but there is, there aren't enough people at this point to rescue and adopt these dogs. There's more dogs than there are people. And we recently talked to Matt who runs the ASPCA and he

He said a big part of the problem is the housing in Los Angeles has now, a lot of it, a lot of the renters are not allowed to have animals. So people are relinquishing their animals so that they can get an apartment. And, you know, here we are. And the breeding is a problem. And the spay-neuter law is not being... Upheld, enforced. Yeah, I mean, at this point, they're putting down thousands, thousands, probably...

you know, every month. It's bad. And these are adoptable, healthy animals. These are not, you know, the complicated, difficult animals, the, you know, vicious or sick or elderly. These are like mothers with puppies. Mothers with puppies. That's correct. Like, I think I just reposted this woman, Rita, who is a volunteer at a couple of different shelters. And she really goes in and plays with them and assesses them and

If they're like a bite risk, that's a different story. If they're this, they're that. But she really likes to do videos of showing that these dogs are wonderful. They're a wonderful addition to your family. They may not be a pure breed. Maybe they are, but because they come from a shelter, people aren't necessarily interested, which I don't really understand.

I'm like, you can go get a German shepherd from a shelter. I know it was really weird. The other day up here at my daughter's softball game, there was a really cute little German shepherd puppy. And I went to pet him and, you know, I said, did you, did you rescue? Because there are so many, there are so many German shepherds and so many beautiful German shepherd puppies. And so I, you know, and he went, no, we got this one from a breeder in Costa Rica. I went Costa

Like you went to Costa Rica to get a dot. We have thousands in the shelters here that are like basically free, bro. I mean, you might have to pay like a small fee to the shelter, but like, it just is. It's a little insane to me, the idea that people are actually like spending their money that like buying things.

a dog that might be a couple grand when they could be rescuing one that's equally as wonderful, equally as beautiful, equally as perfect a family dog for like 200 bucks. You know, it's just kind of a, here I go again with my whole like budgeting, but I just, I don't get it. I think there's a real misconception about rescuing, which is really unfortunate. I thought by now,

that more people would get it that, you know, the idea of like a purebred purchased dog is kind of a fallacy. You're not, you can't purchase perfection. Like there's no guarantee that the dog will, I had like, before I knew there was a problem back when I was like 19, I bought a miniature Schnauzer Romeo from a breeder in San Diego and

purchased this dog from an upstanding breeder. He was the weirdest looking schnauzer, like with his like crazy long back legs. And he was real curmudgeon-y, you know, you're not,

guaranteeing some kind of perfect animal if you buy it. Like, I don't know if people just don't realize that. I don't know if it's a status thing. I don't know what it is. I wish I could just get a megaphone and explain. Yeah, but it is from, you know, a totally different, like, decade that just keeps on rolling over. Because I know, you know, I did the same thing. I got a German Shepherd from Germany, you know, paid an astronomical amount for

Was she amazing? Yes, she was. She was, she came trained. You know, you could not get near me without that dog, you know, growling at you or warning you to back off. I felt very safe around her. You know, when I got married, my, my husband at the time gave me a, a new German shepherd because my other German shepherd had passed. And yes, she comes from a breeder in Germany, but I'm like,

I love my dog more than anything else in the world. I just wish that she was...

not so high strung, which is what you get from a lot of these breeders. You get the dog that's like a little off mentally, a little too aggressive to this, to that. Cause then I would have, you know, 20 dogs running around my property versus, you know, one who, if she sees another dog, she's going to lunge and try to kill it. Yeah. And, but that mentality does come from a different decade. I think it comes from like,

the 90s where it was a little bit more about decadence and status and all of that. But we're in the 2000s. Why we don't understand that every single time that we get from a breeder, a dog, that we're

Taking away the life of probably 10 dogs. Yeah. I think there's a good odd discrepancy between, you know, this little beautiful dog that you're looking at that you got from your breeder and being able to see that there are hundreds of them, just like your dog that you love so much that you would do anything for suffering. It's like, it's like you can't kind of put the two together or something. A lot of people don't,

And I didn't, you know, until I, it was like a random thing. My mom went to go get her nails done and saw a sign on the salon door about like a rescue needing, you know, help, needing donations. And she was like, oh, I can help. And she wrote a check, but she forgot to sign it. So the woman who ran the rescue was at her door like the next day, you know, because they need that money so badly. And so they struck up kind of a friendship and a relationship. And my mother became more and more aware, then made me more and more aware. She's

really good at lecturing me and, um, yeah, I guess. And then I, uh, was like, oh, well now I can't turn back, you know, like, cause I had purchased three of the dogs I've had. Yeah. And all schnauzers, I was like a schnauzer person and thinking that was the only way. And then, um,

Now it's like, I say to my friends all the time, if you're ready for a dog or if you want a family dog or if you want another family dog, when one has passed, just call. We can get you pretty much anything for rescue. Like, it's crazy. There's so many purebreds and purebred rescues out there. At this point, there's really no...

reason to purchase unless you're purchasing like a fully trained because you're gonna pay for that regardless of what we trained on um mine are like i have one back there on my bed but he's wearing his diaper because he's not trained he's old and it's not because he's old that he pees all over my house it's because he's not trained but

Just not dreamers. I'm okay with that. Some people are not. So, you know, but I think that, yeah, I think at this point I'm just trying to be as loud about it as I can be without being like, without turning everybody off, you know? Yeah, that's, that is a big thing. People are, you know, they don't want to be hit over the head.

With the information, you have to feed it to them in just the right way. Yet, I know that my personality is I get so upset and emotional about it. Like, I do a lot of stuff with wild horses and just horses in general. And I'm astonished at the amount of horses that end up in slaughter pens because the people can't care for the horse anymore or because...

They never took care of it properly. So now it's got a bad leg. Yet they don't really understand that that horse, they're dropping it off at a slaughter pen. It's not going anywhere good. It's going to Mexico where they dismember it alive. So that's what you're doing to your horse that has maybe...

you know, helped you plow the fields for years and years and years. And then our wild horses, it's insane to me that we have a government that rounds up the wild horses, like the very fabric of what this country is about, right? Cowboys and Indians and horses and all of that. There's books, there's poems, there's songs written about it. So what's interesting to me is that we have somehow become

a little desensitized to what we do to our animals. It's almost like, oh, well, you know, there's a clock on their life and it's time. So let me just drop them off at the shelter. Let me just drop them off at. Yeah, it's shocking. I, you would love my mother. And anytime you want to come up to Utah and ride any of our horses, just come or see them. We have three wild horses on our ranch now from the Anaki. We tried, we tried really hard to stop that roundup and we couldn't.

And so all the people involved, there was lots of us and every one of us rescued or took at least one or two so that they would not go to the slaughter pens. It's horrifying. It gives me chills. The lack of empathy and compassion. To me, it's barbaric. And it makes me so angry. And I don't know sometimes how to even...

That's why I hide in Utah. I just, I don't know how to deal with a world that can behave like this. So many people drop old, sick dogs at the shelter after spending that dog's whole life with them. And then you just abandon them when they're old and sick and not going to like play fetch anymore. Like it makes me, I have no patience for that. I have no compassion. I suppose I should. Everybody has complicated lives, but I hate the idea of treating the innocent, the voiceless as if

We aren't responsible for them as if protecting them isn't our responsibility. It's not as if that person would want to be, you know, dropped off. Like I look at myself and I'm like, well, I have cancer. You know, my cancer keeps on getting worse. I can't imagine if my mom who essentially like lives with me basically three days a week, she's not here, but the rest of the time she's here. So she lives with me.

I can't imagine her being like, oh God, it's just too exhausting to deal with Shannon and her cancer. I'm done. You know, like who? Yeah, that's a great analogy actually, because maybe that will make people really understand it because talking about, I mean, I can get real like philosophical and go off into like weird spirit realms and stuff, but I truly believe that.

that these creatures are of the same sort of divine or universal or positive energetic energy that we all are, that runs through this whole world. We have the great blessing of getting to live in and especially, you know, here in Utah, but I just can't, I can't wrap my brain around people who just don't seem to understand that significance or, you know,

it's just an animal. It's like, but it's still feelings and it feels pain and fear and loneliness and you can't relate human. Like what's the problem here? I, I don't know. I, that I'm, that's one of those things I'll get real mouthy about. Well, no, because it's true. It's like, all right, well, you know,

You go to Ulin and be burned alive and do all of this stuff. It's, it's again, you're right. We have no empathy or some people, the majority of people, it seems are devoid of empathy anymore.

for animals, for living things. And, you know, I'm certainly not preachy where I'm like, oh, you should all be vegans. You should be vegetarians. Like I'm not, I go back and forth from trying to be a vegetarian to then feeling like, okay, my body needs a little bit more protein. So it's not about being preachy. It's about putting yourself in a place

a animal shoes who that you know feels all of these things. I mean, they all feel these things, but that you bring into your home, that you nurture, you love, they spend time with your children,

They are part of your life for so long. And then you're like, well, I just don't have time for this dog. Or, oh, I have to move. And the place I found doesn't accept animals. It's like, well, go look somewhere else. Go find somewhere else. Well, you know, maybe you don't get to be in that neighborhood. Maybe you go to a different neighborhood. But you'll find something. You don't just abandon everything.

a family member. And I wonder if people really understand too, and it's misleading when we say shelter, we think safe shelter place they can be and be safe. It that's not what our shelters are anymore. I don't know if they ever were, but they certainly aren't now. They are where they house them uncomfortably in pens and cages with, you know,

massive amounts of them barking and freaking out and scared for just a few days until they kill them in the back room. So that's what, we need to change the name. It needs to be called prison for animals with, you know, an inherent death sentence. So I don't know, maybe people don't realize that. I know, I mean, I've been in situations where I took an older dog from a

really lovely older woman in Rhode Island when I was working there. And I had hoped the sign was part of the props, like set design, you know, looking for a home for my old hundred and Mojo was like 180 pounds or something shepherd mix. I can no longer keep him. And I was like, who would do that? He's old and he's huge. Like who's going to take this dog? And when I met her, you

You know, she had lost her job. She needed to move in with her daughters. They lived in a place where they could not have an animal, certainly not that size. And she had a young son who with a disability and he was in a wheelchair and he was so attached to this dog. But because of his living situation, he couldn't take him either because he was in an assisted living situation. It was the most difficult.

awful. I said, I will take your dog. And they brought him and they brought him to set and they said goodbye to him. And it was so awful. And this poor kid was just

And his mother was devastated because she didn't want to do this to him either, but she didn't have a choice. And that dog sat in my trailer and just howled for hours. It was, I don't know that he ever really recovered. It was so sad. But that's like, that's what I think people are missing when they do it cavalierly.

You know, this dog only knows you, only loves you, feels its life purpose is to be your companion. And so when you abandon it, it doesn't understand. It doesn't know why, you know, it doesn't have the ability to, oh, it must have been just too much for them. They just wait. They wait for you to return.

No, they're getting dumped at a shelter that I can't remember the name of the shelter, but it wasn't that long ago. It was like maybe a month ago or something where it came out that they weren't even using the, you know, the shot that they give before they euthanize the dog in order to like calm it down where it doesn't feel the pain of the euthanasia, like going through his body. Cause that basically like stops the heart and it's,

not pleasant. So this place wasn't even using that. So these dogs were being put down in an even more cruel way.

being walked to the back and then just shot up with something that like sees their heart and it's like become now just like a like a factory worker you know just get them out get them out get them out we don't have room we don't have room we don't have room it's like i don't even know i feel so horrible and bad for the shelter workers in a way because i don't even know how you what happens to your heart in a situation like that like how much do you have to just desensitize yourself just to get through your job and do do this horrible thing

but here in Utah we had until last year, we had gas chambers. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? It's 2023. What are you doing? You know what? And it was like, you know, it was a, it was kind of a fight because of the old cowboy mentality around here. And,

You know, we got them to ban them. So that was a huge win. I'm incredibly grateful for, you know, my governor and the people who really stepped up to help me fight that. That is a huge win. It was crazy. We were one of three states that still did this. And I was like, how can you do this?

in this sacred place. This place is so extraordinary and beautiful and you feel so connected to nature here. How can you do this? What a horrible mark you're leaving on this great place.

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Hi everybody, it's Savannah Guthrie from the today show as we head back to work back to school back to everything we want to help you turn your to do list into your today last your morning routine healthy meals and workout plans we've got you covered so you can take it all on with simple solutions to help you through the day everything you need to know before heading out the door so join us every morning on NBC because every day needs today.

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at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary. VGW group. Void or prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply. I wanted to ask you a question about your cancer. How long have you had cancer, Shannon? I got cancer in 2015. Shit. Okay. And it went into remission, I think, right at the end of 2017 or at the beginning of 2018. And then it came back in 2019 in stage four.

Yeah. Breast cancer? Breast cancer. But then it spread to my bones. And from there, it spread to my brain. Like last year, I had brain surgery. So they had to, you know, open up and remove one of the larger tumors so that they could, you know, test its pathology and all of that. And then I had brain radiation. Thank God it was like focal radiation.

But, you know, it's something that it, I did it on the podcast. I talked about it. It just was out because it's, you know, there's so many protocols. Eventually, it's stage four cancer. Like eventually those protocols are going to stop working. And you just hope that you are on one long enough for them to actually come up with another protocol and another protocol or whatever.

So it's really hard. This is probably the hardest time for me that I've ever had with the cancer. I've always kind of felt very positive and like I can deal with it. And this is definitely like I'm overly emotional. I want to cry every single second at good or bad, like just introducing you. I was like about to start crying.

Like it just, but what's really beautiful about it is I think you become so incredibly sensitive that your eyes are,

are like wide open to everything around you, to people, to how they react, to what you can possibly do that's better for the world, like what your purpose here is. Yeah. Because I think I struggled with that kind of my entire life, like being a child actor and then growing up acting and I just never felt like I was accepted.

I always, you know, looked at the friends crew and was like, oh my God, I want to hang out with Jen Aniston and Courtney Cox. And, you know, why doesn't anybody accept me? And why am I always called the bad girl? And then eventually it's like when you turn 40, when you stopped caring about what people are saying about you, that's for me, cancer was that moment where I was like,

Oh, hell no. I don't need to hang out with any of these people. I need to make sure I'm happy and living the best life that I can while I'm still alive. My, so in 96, I think my mother was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. And like I said, almost 81 now. And I mean, your experience is clearly different.

And I think everybody's is when it comes to this sort of, you know, to cancer, to health, our finger, I think our bodies and our reactions to things are as individual as our fingerprints. I don't think there's any sort of one shoe fits all thing that just, you know, but I would, you're probably really sick of talking about it, but if you do ever want to talk to somebody who's gone through it and has some, I think very interesting experiences,

you know, how she got through it. She's really, she's pretty incredible. I'm very proud of my mother. Um, I find her incredibly, um, well, she's, she's brave and she's strong. Um, she's incredibly compassionate. Um, she's unbelievably annoying sometimes, but I really think that if you ever wanted to talk to somebody that she would, I would love you to talk to her, um,

Because there were some things she did that were unique at the time. And one of those was to work, she worked with a naturopath. And, but she chose, she was in a cancer group and all the other women had chosen like lumpectomies and radiation. And she chose to just

kind of go full throttle and do the mastectomy, do the nine months of chemotherapy. Um, and she will say that it wasn't, um, the best year of her life, but it wasn't the worst. And she had some tools like she, she, our family is definitely, I'm not really, well, I was raised Mormon. Um, and at the time we were practicing Mormons, but I'm not really, she, and she isn't really either like we're more, um,

I mean, I pray and I lean into the idea that

This is a benevolent universe that there's an energy that feels kind. I don't think it's an indifferent universe and I'm not agnostic or an atheist, but I don't know exactly how it all looks. I don't need to. I like the mystery, but I do think that she felt she was given some answers through prayer or meditation or whatever she did at that time that I thought were really interesting. It was like, stay away from toxic people, even if they're your family and

We had a few and she, I think the other one was rest when you need it. Don't try to push through it. Don't try to get back on your feet and whatever, just rest. And then I can't remember what the third one is. I think it might've been like, was it to like write down, you know, what, what you were really feeling like the real, um,

shit not the like i'll be okay but the real shit um we do tend to do that we we tend to as your mom would probably agree with me on we tend to look at everybody and go no we're fine we're fine we're fine it's i don't even think it's about reassuring ourselves it's about reassuring everyone around us yeah because they're uncomfortable makes you uncomfortable right yeah yeah but

I would assume that that would be incredibly healthy and getting some of that toxic energy out of where you are super scared, but you're not able to express it. Right. To the people that love you and that are in your life all the time because you're trying to protect them. But to just get it out on paper, it's like it gets it out into the universe and gone. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that, you know, that goes for almost anything. But I think it's especially important when you're sort of warring with your body, you know, and warring with you. I think being able to just be yourself.

like deeply honest about how that really makes you feel without worrying about anybody else's feelings or anybody else's reaction or anybody else's need to make it right and make it right and make it right and find a solution for you. Cause that's, you know, a very human reaction to when you see somebody love and, you know, that is suffering. Um, but like, it is a lot of energy to then take on as the person who's dealing with it. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's not, uh,

Life's not for pussies. That's a really good saying. I like that one a lot. And I'll probably take you up on horseback riding. Coming and getting that Utah energy. I would love to host you. I just think we would have such a good time together. And I just think, you know, it's so interesting because I get asked on occasion to do a podcast here or there, but I typically, you know, like I said, I'm kind of here in Utah, like,

not even in the world anymore of Hollywood as much. But this one, I was like, yes, yes, I'll do that. I'd really like to talk to Shannon Doherty. That's very exciting. So that's a huge honor. I mean, I gotta tell you, I've got like pages and pages and pages of like, when my producer, she does, she's so good. She does so much hard work. And I'm like, what I love when I get someone like you on that,

you know, I do have a lot of admiration for is when you just click and you have an honest conversation and it goes where it goes and nothing's prepared and it just is what it is. Yeah. Sorry. Actually, I tend to, I'm not very good at staying on track. Are you kidding? I'm not good at it either. It was unbelievable. Like, honestly, you're my favorite person I've interviewed so far.

And I thank you. Like, I'm not going to take up the rest of your day because I think we've covered a lot. Is there anything that you want to cover? No, I'm just very grateful to have been asked to be here today. I am like, I very, I don't get a lot of these kinds of conversations. I have a 15 year old, a 12 year old and a seven year old. You know, they don't want to talk about this sort of stuff. And then there's my mom and we talk twice a day, every day. So it's like you kind of run out of

interesting topic. So I'm just grateful to have gotten to have this really lovely, interesting conversation with such a lovely, interesting woman. Thank you. You're going to make me cry. Seriously, you'll make me cry. Again, an honor. And I'll see you in Utah. And please tell your mom, she'll get my number. She can give me a call. I would love to talk to her because I think somebody who's been there, who's done it

I don't think you're ever over it, whether you're cured, not cured, you're still in the midst of it. It's always nice to connect with someone who, you know, has gone through it, is going through it, and that maybe is doing something different that could

You know, just open you up to a totally different experience. Yeah. I mean, perspective is tough. And so it's if you can maybe, you know, maybe there will be something in the conversation that inspires or shifts or or even just comforts, you know, or maybe not. But it's worth a shot.

And if you need any help with dog stuff over there in Utah, let me know. I love you. Thank you. I will help. It's like my passion. It's what I care a lot about, along with educating people on cancer. So whatever you need from me, I'm here for you. And vice versa. So I'll see you in Utah. All right. See you in Utah. Thank you so much. Bye.

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