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Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes stories with Unpacking the Toolbox podcast.
Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.
Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life.
I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarcki.
And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark corridors of history and true crime. For each season, we explore a new theme, from poisoners to stalkers, art thieves to snake oil salesmen. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s.
Now, before we get into it, I have a really, really cool announcement. We have just launched our first ever line of notebooks, the perfect companion to the podcast. If you want to take notes while you listen to this episode, if you want to journal about what you're discovering about yourself, what you're learning, these notebooks are perfect.
They were done in collaboration with an incredible Bristol-based illustrator called Rosie Pink. If you follow me on Instagram, you will know that I have been a fan of her work for many, many years. And we finally got the opportunity to collaborate and to create something that we really, truly love. You guys are always asking me for ways that you can support the podcast. I want to keep this completely free. But if you do feel called to do so, and if you are in need of a notebook,
book which you can never have too many of please see the link in the episode description or on our Shopify account I'm so excited for this it's like super high quality of course we weren't gonna make something terrible that you're gonna spend your good old-fashioned money on so have a look see if they perk your interest they're gorgeous they are well made and they were made with love so now let's get into the episode
One of the inevitable aspects of this decade, I think of simply being human, is that there will come a time when we consciously and deliberately need to separate and move on from somebody that we once loved. Whether that is a friend or an ex, somebody else in our lives, a family member, for example. I think it is one of those really sad universal truths of
kind of humanity. Not all relationships are meant to last. Not all of them can kind of withstand the test of time. And in order for us to really truly move on, sometimes we do need a total break from that person to fully heal and to finally process what we experienced. Relationships, they break, they fall apart. And I think whilst we may have imagined that
This person would have been in our life forever. Maybe we always knew it was going to end this way.
The conclusion of a relationship is a really messy and confusing time. And sometimes the only way forward, the only way to stop getting drawn back in, to stop compulsively checking on them, to allow yourself closure, is to go no contact. No contact, this method of separating ourselves and cutting off all kind of
communication with somebody post-breakup, post-argument, post-conflict. It's really seen a rise in popularity and a rise in supporters. And I want to talk about it today. What exactly is no contact? What are the rules? How does it actually work? Why is it so effective? Why is it necessary? And how can we actually stay committed to our, I guess, commitment to
Seeing this person fade from our lives and fade from our future. It's a really sad and scary reality that, you know, there might come a time where this person just can't be the person that we want them to be. And we do need to let ourselves and let them move on. So this is kind of your ultimate guide to no contact, how it works, why it works and how you can implement it.
Now, I will say some people don't necessarily agree with me when I say that no contact is the answer. In fact, I think I would have previously disagreed with myself. You know, if you had asked me two years ago whether you could stay in touch with an ex or repair a severely broken bond with a friend, I would have said yes. I would have said that that is the mature thing to do, that it showed growth.
I even did an episode with my ex-boyfriend a few years back. It sounds insane. It's still up if you want to go and find it. But we essentially discussed how we were still friends, how we were so mature for maintaining the relationship. Surprise, surprise. We no longer are. And I think no contact was the way that that inevitably came to an end.
different things obviously work for different people but I think with relationships and with exes in particular one of the reasons that we stay in touch that we don't go no contact is because we aren't actually completely ready to move on even if we think that we are this person is kind of always there they're
They're always ready to come back into our lives. We are always ready to let them back in our lives because they remain an option to us. But I think when we allow these people who we know should not be, you know, that they are not going to create a fulfilling future for us, that they just aren't right for us, they've caused us pain. When we allow them to stay in our lives, they take up valuable mental, social, physical space. I think the
The same goes for friendships that have turned sour. When we keep giving people second chances, when we hope that they will change, when we let them overstep boundaries, eventually we do have to make a tough decision and hopefully a permanent one to no longer allow them access to
to us. I don't think that it's an easy or a light decision to come by. I don't think that personally I'm somebody who could sit here and say if you have any kind of conflict or disagreement with somebody cut them out they're not good for you because that is quite an unhealthy and unsustainable thing to do but I think personally the more that I've matured and grown the more that I've
understood that especially in the aftermath of a really intense like serious breakup one of the only ways to find closure is to see this person exit your life permanently and for you to be committed to that decision the more that I've kind of realized that no contact when it's possible when there are no kids or pets involved or you're not working together whatever it is no contact is
the best option and a lot of the psychology kind of proves it as well and it doesn't just prove that it's maybe just good for you on an emotional level but it also proves that it actually lessens the time that it's going to take for you to move on and to be open to new people entering your lives whether that is platonically or romantically. So let's talk about it today, let's get into it.
Masmerizing.
Also, we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. So many people. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope. And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance. And it was peak TV. This is new Scandal KCBQ.
content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up gladiators, grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to unpacking the toolbox on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.
I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling.
When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation. It's not feeling stressed. It's not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.
That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.
Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez, IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it.
My name is Daniel Ralston. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you the true story of the fake zombies. I was like blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it.
Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
For those of us who are unfamiliar with this method, no contact is essentially what it sounds like. It involves cutting off all communication with somebody following some kind of breakdown in the relationship. Normally, that is a breakup. Something has occurred that has made you realize that the relationship is beyond repair. It could even be months, years.
after the breakup where you've just realized that you are not at the point of recovery that you need to be because you keep letting this person back in because you are maintaining some kind of communication with them that is not letting you heal.
So no contact is this kind of realization that we have that there needs to be a final and very much resolute separation from this person. Now, when I say cutting off all contact, we are not just talking about, you know, avoiding running into them or blocking their number, their social media, their email. We are also talking about something that is not often included, which is preventing yourself from following up with mutual friends.
I think we often tend to focus on specifically the communication between just us and this one other person. And when we limit that, we are going no contact. But the purpose of this method is to essentially allow somebody else to fade from your life in the most efficient way possible to put up that strong boundary. And when we keep asking people around us if they've heard anything, if they know what's going on in that other person's life,
you know, whether they're dating anybody, whether they're sad or they miss us, touching base with our mutual friends about their existence and their wellbeing and their whereabouts. I think that really defeats the purpose. It can also really undo so much of the effort that we've already put into Detach, right? You know, we've done all
all the other things correctly. We don't have any direct contact with this person, but that indirect contact still counts. It still activates all those old memories. It still keeps the memory of this person very much active and present in your life.
That doesn't mean that you of course have to remove anybody that has any connection to this person. Otherwise you risk falling into temptation. More so that I think we need to be conscious of the ways that we are replacing the direct contact that we crave with our ex, with our old friend. We're replacing that direct contact with secondary contact and it's still fulfilling that main function and purpose which is that we feel connected to them in some way.
It is such a crucial element that I think we often forget, myself included at times. I remember going like no contact with an ex maybe three years back and
But I remained very much attached and I really clung on to the friendships that I had with his housemates and the friends that we had made together. And I eventually really realized that I was using a lot of our interactions to speak about him rather than actually focus on the other person and the friendship that we had built independent of my ex.
One thing that I think we know about no contact is that it requires a whole lot of commitment. It is not for the faint-hearted. Somebody actually said it to me this way the other day. No contact involves treating this other person as if they've died. That is how intense it can be and the level of discipline that it can take. You kind of have to imagine that even if you wanted to reach out
You couldn't. And I also think that this way of seeing things, there is absolutely no possibility of communicating going forward, helps us justify our grief as well.
It stops us from feeling a lot of disenfranchised grief that we shouldn't be feeling sad, that we should be over it by now, that this isn't a big deal. When we treat it like, no, this person is forever out of my life, we are allowed to really feel the pain that I think we should be feeling at the end of any relationship. The level though of, you know, discipline and control that that takes and knowing how finite that decision will probably be
is what keeps a lot of us from ever thinking that we could do it, from trying every other possible solution, trying to be friends before we finally get to that point where we know that there is no other option.
I also think that it's super normal sometimes to go back and forth, right? To unblock their number and then block it again. To really fight the urge to reach out and then slip up and have to reinstitute that wall between you two. Human relationships, especially ones that are so deep and passionate and emotional that they would require this amount of drastic action, they're complicated and they contain a lot of contradictory emotions, right?
Anger one minute, nostalgia the next, grief one day and joy and gratitude tomorrow. So it can be very hard to stay strong. It can be very hard to be committed to this decision because how you're feeling about the situation right now might not be how you're feeling about it tomorrow when you miss this person beyond belief, beyond anything you have felt.
But personally, I do think that this period of no contact is almost necessary to completely heal and mend. It provides us with the emotional, mental, social, and importantly, the physical space to A, actually process our experience with them, the good and the bad, and B, come to terms with the reality that this person is no longer going to be part of our life in the same way
And that is what it's going to be going forward. That is something that we cannot change. If we have decided that we cannot be in a relationship with this person, if they've decided it for us, part of that future, that future path that we are now on is, you know, a path towards never speaking again. And I think no contact gets us comfortable with that reality a lot quicker.
Here's kind of how I like to see it and how I've justified it actually to myself in the past. The end of a relationship is always going to hurt. The pain of detaching from someone is going to be intense no matter which way you square it. But that pain can exist for a longer period of time, for a year or more at like 50% intensity.
or it can exist at 100% intensity but only for a couple of months.
It really depends on whether you are ready to heal or endure the separation over a longer timeline or whether you are ready to bite the bullet. And yes, experience the intensity of all of that grief, all of that rage, all of that recovery at once rather than keeping yourself still kind of attached to them just because it makes it feel easier in the moment.
So my other argument for no contact is that it also stops us from sliding back into the relationship during that very vulnerable period where we do just genuinely want somebody. And when that somebody is somebody that we are already familiar with and that we already know and that we know is available, it's so much easier to backslide. No contact is basically you saying, no, this is an absolute decision.
And I think it's a lot harder for you to turn around and be like, no, just kidding. I changed my mind because you can't really justify that to your past version of yourself. You can't justify that to your current version of yourself who knows in the back of their mind that there was a reason that we decided to be this drastic about our efforts.
So the final reason I think that no contact is powerful is because it lets us provide ourselves with closure rather than waiting on somebody else to do it for us. It lets us
Essentially take matters into our own hands. If this person is still stringing you along, you know, hitting you up every now and again, if you're still waiting for a message or relying on them when you know that you can't, no contact gives you the power to close that chapter for yourself. It is such a decisive and strong way of saying, I'm done. I'm over this. Like this is done. And I have made that decision.
for both of us. I'm putting all of the memories, our bond, our love that is now in the past and my future is just kind of me, myself and I and I'm going to move forward without you beside me. I think it's also especially powerful for breaking really painful and toxic cycles of like distancing ourselves for a couple of weeks and
And then going back because no contact is quite permanent, right? It's really saying enough is enough. That's it. I'm doing what is best for me. It is a hard boundary rather than like a soft permission slip of like, maybe if you like text me at 2am, this could be a thing. It's like, no, you can't even text me. This is not even a remote possibility.
So why does this work? So many people, including myself, obviously are such huge proponents of this method for really detaching and finally ending things. There has to be some evidence for it. There has to be more than just anecdotal evidence that this is effective and efficient method.
Of course, I had to find the science for you guys. Couldn't just give you empty advice without the psychology. So to understand this, we really need to comprehend the psychology and the biology of attachment. And it starts with how we initially fell in love with this person. So when we begin to get close to someone, especially intimately, whether that is emotional, physical intimacy, even in like intellectual intimacy, we
Our brain releases oxytocin. This is known as the love or the bonding hormone. And the function of this hormone is to promote trust, to promote safety, security. And it's really crucial. It is like the biological building block for asserting and creating and constructing relationships.
So it's kind of what binds a lot of us together. The other thing to know about oxytocin is that it is often released in tandem and parallel to other hormones and neurotransmitters that we associate with pleasure and happiness and love. I'm talking about dopamine and serotonin, of course, the two famous ones together.
There have been some studies, including one published in 2017, that suggests that the chemical reaction produced by this cocktail of hormones and chemicals and neurotransmitters that is associated with falling in love is a lot similar to the same chemical process that occurs when we become addicted to a substance. It's thrilling. It's exhilarating. It consumes our rational brain.
And it gets us hooked. Not only is oxytocin just a really nice hormone to experience, not only does it make us feel really good, it is also habit forming. Because it is such a pleasurable experience, when the release of oxytocin is paired with some event or stimuli or a person like an ex-boyfriend, an ex-girlfriend, an ex-partner...
we begin to associate this person with all of those amazing feelings that we are chasing. And so when we want a hit of that same great feeling, we seek them out. They kind of become like our drug dealer. All of this is what contributes to the intensity of the early stages of a relationship, but also like the comfort and the warmth of
of love. Now, when things start to turn sour, it is not like that love fades overnight.
what we start to see is, I think, a general gradual decline, but also an unstable association between all of those nice feelings and that person, but also a new set of feelings. Feelings of sadness, feelings of worry, feelings of longing, despair, unfulfillment. And so we don't really know whether this next interaction we have with them is going to produce the feelings that we want to be having, which is the feelings of love,
or the feelings that make us distressed and feeling rejected and uncomfortable. Despite that it might not be all bad right it's just that there is this that the bad experiences begin to outweigh the positive ones that's often what leads to a breakup but it doesn't mean that there isn't still like a baseline of feeling. There is obviously going to be like a maintaining level of
positive neurological and biological reactions going you know going about below the surface even if they are not the majority there is still some part of us that remains attached and bonded to this person even if things you know start to become shaky because we have that history
So when we break up, when we realize that this person is not for us, or when they break up with us, perhaps out of the blue, perhaps we didn't want it to occur, on a conscious level, we kind of know that things have obviously changed. Like we were present for this experience. We are feeling distressed. But our neurotransmitters don't know that. Our dopamine receptors don't know that. And so...
It's not like the tap is suddenly turned off for our brain. It's not like the moment we've broken up with somebody or the moment a relationship has ended, our brain goes, all right, let's just shut all that down and get them back to normal.
What is happening is that there is still this urge and this craving and this desire for the kind of positive, happy chemicals and hormones that this person was previously eliciting. But there is no longer a catalyst for those reactions because this person is no longer in your life.
That is part of why breakups are so painful because the urge to stay connected to this person is still being triggered by our craving and our desire for all these good experiences. And it's also still being triggered because we have probably formed a whole series of habits and behaviors around seeking love out from this individual. That's really why in the weeks and the early months after a breakup, after the end of a relationship, it's
It's especially hard because we are essentially rewiring our brain to not need them anymore.
Here's the catch though. Anytime you reach out, you get that spike again. When you see them out in public, you are immediately transported back into how great it felt. And so you are getting just enough to maintain those previous neural pathways that were kind of formed in like the era of your love story.
those connections are still maintained by those small text messages that you sometimes get when you sleep with each other like every now and again when you still get that you know Instagram DM from them and like your attention is immediately grabbed and you're immediately feeling like loved and wanted again
All of that, all of those kind of small moments in which we are yet to completely break off contact with somebody where they're still in our lives, that is keeping us hooked on them. It is what we call unpredictable reward. We don't know when we're going to get it. But by keeping those communication and contact channels and pathways open, we still expect that
We're going to get something from that person that there could come a time when they will, you know, light us up again, when we will get their affection, when they will want to speak to us. And so all of that emotion, all of that connection and attachment, although on a rational and rational.
very self-aware level, we know the relationship is over, by continuing to put ourselves in situations where that person is still in our life, even in a small capacity, we are not letting our brain recover. And so no contact is really the solution here because it
It firstly stops temptation, but it also acts as a complete detox. It's very much a cold turkey move. I like this concept of a detox a lot when explaining this because that is essentially what is happening. This process of going no contact is a process of
removing something from your mind, from your life, from your body that you no longer want present. It is this purifying, cleansing process of really detoxing your life of this person and hopefully coming out cleaner, coming out better, coming out happier.
You're physically removing this person from your life, right? By removing opportunities for them to stay in touch with you and for you to stay in touch with them.
But you're also essentially getting used to the fact that you can feel good and you can feel happy and you can have intimate, loving feelings without them. It also stops the yo-yoing, the back and forth that keeps you hung up. It stops the confusion and it lets the cycle break. Like I just said, it means that where previously you were seeking out something
All of those positive feelings and emotions and reactions from this person. No contact means that you have no other option but to find these necessities somewhere else.
hopefully in yourself first, but then eventually in other people, maybe eventually in a better partner. Making space like that, getting clear on the fact that holding onto this person is not what is best for you, I think really allows you to let peace into your life and to get control back over that situation and back over the kind of
reactions and emotional reactions in particular that you can't stop yourself from having. You can't stop yourself from wanting this person. You can't undo the past, but you can control how you react to those circumstances and how much access this person continues to have and how much access you give yourself to them. So I think...
At the end of the day, like the main reason why no contact work is no contact works is because it breaks the neurological cycle of attachment. But it also stops you from being confused. It rids you of the temptation of going back to this person who you cannot be with for whatever reason. And it lets you be kind of undistracted and undeterred. It doesn't mean that you just continually elongate the detachment and the breakup process
just because it is easier to do it slower but it means that it lasts longer and that eventually there will come a time where you do have to accept that your relationship is not what it once was and it is time to move on. So that is essentially my reasoning for why this is such an effective method but how do we do it successfully? How do we stay strong and committed despite the
All of the things in us, all of the mental compulsions to reach out, all of the desires to have this person back in our lives in some capacity. Well, we are going to talk about all of that and more after this short break.
Masmerizing.
Also, we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. So many people. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope. And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance. And it was peak TV. This is new scandal.
content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.
I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words.
That I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.
that feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.
Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarcki.
And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark corridors of history and true crime. For each season, we explore a new theme. From poisoners to stalkers, art thieves to snake oil salesmen. We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, such as Walter Minx, the man who built his own submarine hoping to escape with his blackmail payout under Lake Michigan. It sounds made up, but it's 100% true.
We'll explore the crimes as well as societal forces at play, from unfair sentencing to jaw-dissolving health risks. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So I think I've given you my most compelling argument for why you should go no contact, especially with an ex and some of the reasons and the science and the psychology that tells us why it works. But I think just saying it doesn't make it easy.
A few years ago, I was seeing this person pretty casually for like four months, but they had a really like significant emotional impact on me. I think just because of the timing and everything that I was going through. And they were also just not somebody that I should have had in my life. They were not a kind person. And I eventually realized that it was a pretty terrible situation. I needed to cut him off.
But the number of times I blocked and deleted his number and then would unblock him or would reply to his messages on Instagram, wherever, you would have thought that nothing had changed. And it took me, I think, two to three whole months to really finally quit that situation and to really go cold turkey. So that is just one of the situations where I've really applied this rule. Obviously not very well, but I do have some advice that I've learned from
from my failures, I guess. Not my failures. I have some advice that I've learned from my missteps and from my learning experience. So here are five, I think, of my best tips and principles for successful no-contact relationships.
Firstly, try just 21 days of no contact first, straight after a breakup before going all in. I think this gives us an adjustment period to really reflect on what we want going forward and just taking that three weeks to get an immediate distance to really process our emotions. I think it's also important because it gives us space before we do something impulsive that we'll regret. Sometimes, you know, when we are in that highly emotional and volatile state, we're
Sometimes, you know, we don't always do what is right. Sometimes we are not able to put in the boundaries that we know we are going to need later on. Sometimes it is messy and confusing and we get back together with them and then we break up with them again and
Giving yourself that three weeks of distance straight after an incredibly emotionally intense situation lets you get clear. And for practical reasons, right? Like it's only three weeks. You guys can come back together and have a conversation. You might have like items or things to give back, ground rules to apply, etc.
But you've still given yourself like a bit of a head start and you can still see that, you know, you can live without them. You did that three weeks. You can do another three weeks. You have breathing room and you have, yeah, I guess practice and skill to see that this is important and to see that you can live on your own and you can live without that connection.
Secondly, treat no contact as a challenge. And when you are really struggling, as we all do,
Just go for one more hour. Go for one more minute, even when it's really hard. I think that saying goes, it's something like you can do, you can do anything for 30 seconds. When that temptation to reach out to them is really overpowering, just focus on the 30 seconds in front of you. And then the next 30, and then the next 30, before like the craving and the urge disappears.
The other piece of advice I have that's related to this is to download a sobriety app. Now, I know this sounds so strange, but there are apps out there that track your progress when it comes to quitting alcohol, quitting drugs, quitting substances, etc.
We can also use that for people. It keeps you focused on the time you have already put into removing yourself. It keeps you focused on the progress that you are making that you don't want to undo in a moment of weakness.
And it really, I think, makes it feel more like a challenge than a chore. Eventually, as well, speaking from experience, it's something that you just don't even check. You don't even care. And I think that moment when you're like, oh, I'm not looking at the minutes that we spent apart ticking by. I'm not looking at the hours we haven't spoken, you know, floating into the ether. I don't care anymore.
That is when you know that you've healed. I know that right now the possibility of that reality, the possibility of no longer even caring about what that person is doing or who they're with, you know, no longer being able to hear from them or touch them. Right now that reality seems really devastating.
But I think with time, that sting will lessen. That doesn't necessarily mean that this process will be linear. I think for anybody who has, you know, been through a breakup, been through a friendship breakup or a family estrangement, process is not linear. Each day, it's not promised that it's going to be better than the last. I think that's a fact of life is that grief is
does not know any timeline but its own. However, I want you to remember that it is totally normal for that to be the case. It is totally normal to have a few weeks where you feel amazing and you feel great and then just a day of just despair and grief and tears even when you've been doing so well. So this brings me to my next tip. Don't be afraid of memory flare-ups and don't let them undo your progress.
Just because you're still thinking about them after going no contact doesn't mean you are failing and it definitely doesn't mean it's not working. Just because you find yourself fantasizing or daydreaming about the past doesn't mean that you should revisit it. I want you to remember that.
I think we all know that feeling of having like an eerily weird dream about an ex and thinking that there is some deeper meaning, but there isn't. This is just your brain processing information and processing important memories. So there's a concept that I like to bring up when people talk to me about this. You know, I had someone actually message me the other day and she was like, you know, it's been eight months since I've gone no contact and I've just lost
randomly in the last couple weeks I cannot stop reliving things I cannot stop thinking about her so this is a phenomenon known as mind pops and it's super strange essentially what happens is that you'll be going about your day you're feeling amazing and then this random memory or image will suddenly pop into your head for no specific reason almost like a flashback
Now, there was an article written about this almost 10, oh my gosh, 12 years ago. It was written in 2012. So it was written by Scientific America. And the reason that this happens is not because, you know, it's a sign that somebody else is thinking about you. It's not because your brain knows something that you don't or that it's fate or destiny. It's actually just a part of our brain kind of cleaning out the filing cabinet, right?
It's part of our brain just filtering through our semantic or autobiographical memories as it needs to do. You know, our brains are constantly working and going and they're shooting energy and impulses across millions of neural connections. Sometimes it's, you know, these connections, sometimes these electrical impulses are going to accidentally take the wrong road and they're going to revisit something unexpected.
That is normal. It's also a lot more common around like significant dates. So if it's a birthday or Valentine's Day or a former anniversary, it's also all the more common around
in what we know as the anniversary effect. So our recollection of painful or hard memories, our sense of longing, it does typically increase around significant dates and significant moments. I think this is especially the case like around Christmas is one that people talk to me about or around birthdays where you're like, oh, last year I was with this person and I felt really, really loved and this year I'm not.
And it just brings back a lot of the pain. I don't want you to see that as a reason that you are failing. I don't want you to think that that means you're losing progress. It is actually a super, super, super normal part of this journey. I really promise you.
So my fourth tip is to share with your friends. Share your commitment to go no contact or to maintain your no contact with people around you who you trust and who you know care about you because they will help you stay accountable. This is kind of a rule of thumb. If you wouldn't tell your friends about this,
So if you wouldn't tell them that you've, you know, cheekily replied to somebody's story or that you, you know, emailed them or that you had an accidental run in with them. Like if you wouldn't tell them that, it's probably not the thing that you should be doing. It is probably the wrong decision. So when you do have those urges to reach out, because we will have them, tell them.
Text and talk to your friends instead. So I had a friend who actually changed my name in her phone to her ex's name when she wanted to text him. And she would like message me all the things that she would want to say. Like, I'm so upset that you hurt me. You've really let me down, but I want to give you another chance. She would send that to me and I would like reply as him and
and be super rational, and I would say what I knew she needed to hear, not what she wanted to hear, but what, I imagine what he would say that would convince her that that was a bad decision. And it worked. It sounds super bizarre, but it worked. Community, I think, is also just a valuable antidote to the general loneliness we may experience. When we are so used to talking to our ex, it is a compulsion, it is a habit, it can feel like a hole has been left in our life.
Who are we going to share our everyday thoughts with? Who are we going to, you know, share our successes and our failures with? Who's going to celebrate us? Who is going to care about that small thing that, you know, we saw on the bus or that happened at work? Your friends will. Tell them. They want to hear from you. That is a way of making your relationship as strong as the one that you shared with this other person. Communication and vulnerability and letting them help you.
Finally, my final tip for making no contact work, make the fortress impenetrable. Leave no passage unblocked. There is no way for them to get in because if you leave a secret door open that only you know about, you are giving yourself the option to reach back out. You are creating also the false promise that if they wanted to get in touch with you, they
they could. And that is not the commitment that we are looking for. That is not being in 100%. Instagram, Facebook, email, text, cut them all off. And if they do somehow find a way to reach out to you, have something prepared to say. So I'm going to quote this article by the coach Matthew Hussey, because I love what he had to say about this in a recent article. When somebody reaches back out, I think that is the time that
It is the hardest because it's like they're right there. It's like putting a bowl of candy in front of a kid and saying, don't touch it, even though that's all they want to do. That is all you want to do right now. The thing you most want in the world is to hear from that person because hearing from them is going to reignite so much that you actually did enjoy and that you are nostalgic about when it comes to your relationship. So it is very much like reopening your
an old wound and then I think it just sets it's just like a domino effect once you reply to one message being like yeah hey how are you instead of just ignoring it or instead of being like hi actually I'm not looking to have any further communication with you
If you don't do that immediately, it snowballs. It might just be a few messages. It might last an entire day. It might be the rekindling of a relationship that you already know was not meant to be. So have something planned that you are going to say in response to those situations. Find something, a specific affirmation or a mantra or whatever, some kind of motivation that
That's going to, you know, keep you focused on why this is important. Why you wanted to do this in the first place. Maybe it is, you know, I don't want to have contact with this person because I know that by doing that I will leave space for somebody better to come into my life. Maybe it is, you know, eventually this relationship is going to have to fade. I would rather it starts now than in three months, six months, a year. Whatever it is that is keeping you motivated.
Stay on it. Stay focused. I'm sending you so much love and strength because I know this is really hard. This person probably meant so much to you. They probably were somebody that you really cared about. And nobody goes into the start of a relationship with anybody, romantic, platonic, anything,
the ending. And so when we do find ourselves there, it just seems that any way to cope is something that we have to try. And I do think that this is one of the better ways. This is one of the
healthier, more sustainable ways of finding peace, finding closure, taking your life back for yourself so there is not that cloud lingering over your head of what if or what next or is there a future for us? You have closed that door.
For good. For good. You're not opening it again. As hard as that might be, it will get easier. I promise you it will get easier and you will find somebody better and you will find somebody who you never have to consider this possibility with. So thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I really do hope that you enjoyed and I'm sure that if you've listened this far, you're probably really going through it right now. So I really, really appreciate
empathize with you and I sympathize for you. It is tough. Do not let yourself feel any differently and I'm sending lots of love. It's going to be okay.
Make sure that if you enjoyed this episode or if there's somebody who you know might relate to this, send it to them. Send them a link. It might be able to help them out. Make sure that you leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now, and that you are following along so that you never miss a new episode. And as I mentioned at the start, we do have our new series of notebooks live now online.
on the website make sure you check it out make sure you get your hands on it if you're looking for a place to write your deepest darkest secrets I think that might just be it that might just be where you can do it until next time thank you for listening be kind be gentle with yourself and we will talk soon
Hi, I'm Katie Lowes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also, we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for an even more behind-the-scenes Scandal.
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Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
