EP67: The Lululemon Massacre 01:20:06

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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I'm your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my skibbity co-host. Investigator Minnie Mouse. Fresh back from Disney World. Oh, yeah. For 10 years. It felt like it. Fucking jeez, man. It felt like it. When I got back, it felt like I was gone for so long. But when I was there, I was like, oh my God, it's the last day already. Oh, really? You know what I mean? Yeah. But I really missed doing it.

doing this. Oh yeah. I really, really did. I'm happy to say that having something amazing to come home to made coming home not totally miserable. Yeah. Last Tuesday I came up and sat up here for like four hours and I did, I did a podcast. I may put it out on Patreon. Just kidding. I did not record a podcast. I'm joking. A little nauseous when you said that. You did? That was so sad for me for a minute. No, no, no, I didn't.

During your trip, anything that stands out that you want to share with the class? Well, we did Disney, which I've never been to before. Ever? My parents said that they claimed- When you were younger. They alleged that they took us when we were younger. I have no memory of this.

So that's how long ago it was. So this is the first time in like my adult life and any time in my life that I'm able to remember that I went. Definitely my, obviously my kids' first time. So I'm not great with motion. I get motion, you know, when like we're driving somewhere, like Jessica will be in the front, Dave and I are in the back and I have my headphones in because I get car sick. So I'm very sensitive to motion. Yeah. Just a thing. So,

So I'm careful with the rides I go on, just anywhere I go. You didn't go in the teacups, did you? No, I'm not an idiot. Okay, jeez. So we had like a tour guide. The whole day, she sees how cautious I'm being, right? And I'm like, on a scale from one to ten, you know, motion-wise, equilibrium, fuck you up-wise, speed-wise, like rank it and I'll decide to go. Wow. The last ride, she fucking threw me under the bus instantly.

Intentionally, no doubt about it. Good for her. She was done with her tour. It was Guardians of the Galaxy. Anybody who's been to Disney will know that one. It's not that bad, Brooke. You got it. It's not that bad. It's a little fast.

I actually thought I was having a heart attack on the ride. Really? The whole time I was thinking, Dave was sitting in front of me. How do I communicate to him that it's the end? But the G-force was so strong, I couldn't even like tap him. Get off the ride. I immediately run behind this like dumpster, start puking. Oh, you threw up? I almost drowned a lizard, like a salamander. In your vomit? Ran out of the dirt as I was puking. In Florida, they are everywhere. Oh my God.

And guess who was there for me? My mother. Oh. Because you're never too old to need your mommy to hold your hair. No. What did you do with the tour guide? Did you fight her? Oh, well, she was done. I'm telling you, she fucked with me. That was the last ride. She brought us to the ride. We said our goodbyes. And then she disappeared? And she was poof, gone. Wow. You know what? She did me dirty. If you're the tour guide and you're watching this, I just want to say...

Excellent job. I'm sorry that that happened to you, but I kind of love that she did that. Not to you, just in general. I think it's very funny. You're a little bit of a sadist, it would seem. If she stuck around and saw you throwing up, I'm sure she would feel terrible. I don't know. No, no, I think she would. I feel like she knew the outcome. She

She didn't know that, how weak you were. I almost died on that fucking ride. You didn't know how mentally soft you were? I'm just kidding. So listen, next time we go somewhere, I cannot wait. I'm going to sit in the back of your car, per usual. I'm not going to have my headphones in, and I'm just going to puke everywhere. That's disgusting. That's my payback for this. For what? I'm not the tour guide. For this excitement that you're showing. I'm doing a bit for the podcast. I was duped. You will clean it up, filthy animal.

Okay, just real quick. I don't even... Are we doing the podcast right now? I'm having an outer body experience. I don't think I'm back from Disney yet. Listen, welcome back to the podcast. You, me, and all the listeners. Okay? If this is your first time here, welcome, period, end of. Okay? If you love us...

and you're a fan and you're not getting enough of what you want, go over to patreon.com slash psychopedia pod and you will get episodes of Unhinged, episodes of Tankopedia, which I'm doing one today. Love it. And then other stuff that, you know, you just have to join to find out. It's a good fucking time over there. Very good stuff in the pipeline. You can also support us by supporting our sponsors and using our codes because that means that they like us and we'll be able to continue to do this rather than having to quit. Yeah.

which we're pretty close to. Just kidding. I'm joking. Oh my God. Obviously. Do you know something I don't? I do not. And then secondly, I had something very, very funny happen as a father. Okay. While you were gone, something funny happened with my boys. Okay. As is, it happens. You know what I mean? Like you're a parent, your kids don't know what they're doing. You don't know what you're doing as a parent and you're just kind of like hanging on. Amen. For dear life.

So every once in a while, I let my kids say bad words. No judgment, no punishment, no nothing. If it's used contextually, it's very funny. Yeah, no, we're not even there. It's just like they just want to say it. Yeah. Just got to get it out. So we're home alone. My wife is out somewhere at the time and they're like, Dad,

Can we say a bad word, please? And I go, yeah, yeah. You know what? It's been a while. Why don't you do that? So my younger one goes, shit. Oh, my God. And my older one goes, fuck. Oh, man. And they're dying laughing. And you're dying laughing. Oh, my God. It was a huge release for them. It dies down. It goes quiet. And my younger one goes, can I say a racist word? What?

Oh my God. I was like, no, it can, but I get it. Like, cause I'm, my kids listen to music unedited all the time. And I'm very careful to explain to them that just because a word is bad, doesn't mean it's bad. There are other words that are not considered bad words that you shouldn't say even more than the bad word. So like, if you're going to say shit, say that don't

Say the racist words. Don't say the racist words. Don't say I hate you to anybody. That's more damaging than slipping up and saying fuck, you know? So they know the different categories of bad words. Luckily, it turns out he wanted to say cracker because I forced it out of him. But...

Still, though. I was like, dude, same rules as the other one. Sorry, I overreacted. I'm going to let you say what you want to say because I was so curious. Oh, yeah. We got in the car the other day and my little one goes, can we listen to Rap God? What? They go on YouTube. Oh, is it? Okay. Kids love it. I mean, not to sound like I'm 90, but the language in here.

for a seven-year-old? Yeah, it's not great. Luckily, he raps very fast. Yeah, can you do it? I was thinking about you. I'm like, Tank can definitely do that really fast part that Eminem does. That's what I do, yeah. There's a song called World War III on Rough Riders Volume 2 compilation, and it starts out with tugboats.

tugboats. And then like, then it goes into this thing and I had my son listen to it because he liked the sound of tugboats. Okay. And then the guy's like, yeah, motherfucker, you cocksucking sons of bitches. On and on. And my friend Chitty was like, dude, that's child abuse that you just had him listen to that. And then I showed him this weekend a video. It's co-host abuse too when you forced me to listen to R. Kelly. It is what it is. That happened once. It'll never happen again. So...

Without further, I'm a rap god. Nice. Nice. Unintentional. Let's hear about this week's case because I need some, I need some true crime. I know. I know. Welcome to the dark side. Oh, fuck. Okay. Well, I'm here. All right, let's go.

Just after 10 p.m. on the night of Friday, March 11th, 2011, in Bethesda, Maryland, which is a posh mini-metropolis located less than 10 miles northwest of Washington, D.C., which I know you know because we went to college around there. Yes. Yana Serzo, the manager of an Apple store, was preparing to conclude her long shift at work. The day had been exceptionally busy, marked by the highly anticipated launch of the iPad 2, and she was looking forward to wrapping things up for the night.

As Yana walked across the pristine, modern floor at Apple, she heard a concerning and polarizing sequence of untamed, primal sounds, which were entirely unexpected in both timing and location. The sounds were a disturbing medley of high-pitched yelps, low-pitched grunts, crashing noises, and a distinctive dragging sound as if something heavy was being moved. Must have gone on for a while. A little while. Minutes, I mean, not, or like...

Tens of seconds, let's say. Right. Enough that all of those sounds were heard. Exactly. So Yana asked one of the store security guards, Ricardo, to go with her to investigate the source of these unsettling noises. As they walked closer to a wall in the store, Ricardo turned to Yana and said, screaming.

It sounds like some lady was screaming. Ricardo said that to her? Yep. Okay. Following these guttural sounds with their senses now on high alert, Yana and Ricardo realized that they were coming from the athletic clothing store next door. They could hear a voice say, talk to me. Don't do this. Talk to me. What's going on?

Then a second voice emerged, noticeably quieter than the first and sounding almost muffled as it broke through distressing sounds of sobbing and panting. And this voice pleaded, God help me, please help me.

Incredibly, Yana and Ricardo thought that it was, and this is a quote, just drama, and decided between the two of them that the voices could likely be explained in some way or another. Yeah, I always say that. When Jessica and I are fighting, I'm like, please don't do it. God help me. Right. Plus, though, this was Bethesda, Maryland, after all. A ritzy, safe area home to many of the nation's politicians, diplomats, attorneys, economists.

The situation had to have a reasonable explanation. Cameron lived there?

Did I say something wrong? No. Oh. What? You said the diplomats lived there. I thought they were from Harlem. Okay. Yeah, it was posh as well. I like posh. That's a fucking great word. They used to be a great club at the Garden City Hotel. And it's a great Spice Girl. It is a very good Spice Girl. Yeah. So at 10.19 p.m., eight minutes after Yana heard the noises the first time, she and Ricardo decided to turn around and do nothing. Yeah.

They were probably so scared. I'm not so sure that they were scared at this point. They felt that it, as I said, they felt it was drama. They felt that they were like overhearing a fight. Nothing ever goes down in Bethesda to what we're going to hear. Nothing to that extent, you know, until that point, at least that these people were aware of. Yeah. So, I mean, when you're not expecting something, you can rationalize anything. And let's also clarify that it was a mall security guard, which...

You know, these people aren't the bravest and finest. Well, it was a strip mall, but I hear what you're saying. No, I'm just saying like when I see a security guard in a mall, my expectation is never that if some shit goes down, he's going to be in the middle of it stopping it. Right. It's more like they're just there wearing the shirt to deter people who are. Yeah, like if that. You know what I mean? Right. As a kid, it worked. Like as a teenager, and that's probably who they're really there for. 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

But if Yana and Ricardo had proceeded with their little investigation and either entered the athletic clothing store or contacted the authorities to express their concerns... That was so condescending, by the way. Well, I'm fine with that. You done with your little investigation? They would have come across an absolutely...

harrowing scene. Yeah. Inside, they would have found bloodstains on the floor, scattered merchandise, toppled mannequins, and a semi-conscious young woman with a bloody face and her wrists and ankles bound together with zip ties. And in the back hallway of the store, they would have seen a second young woman with a smashed-in skull and a severed spine. Oh my God.

And while it might have seemed obvious that a violent incident had occurred within the store, trying to immediately identify an actual perpetrator at first glance would have been a fool's errand because no one could have possibly guessed who the despicable culprit was behind this merciless crime. Today, we are covering the absolutely brutal and tragic case known as the Lululemon murder.

I got to get some Lulu clothes. Yeah, you got a billion dollars to spend on leggings? Go for it. I'm not going to wear leggings, first of all. Second of all, from what I understand, they have a very ample men's clothing choice. They do. I have a few pair. I used to wear Lululemon like when I was carting my kids around preschool because that was like the uniform. Yeah.

It's pretty. I mean, it's expensive though. Yeah. But it does the trick. It sucks you in where it needs to and whatever. It's fucking expensive. I know. The thing is if, you know, the way I rationalized it was I'm going to buy, you know, two pair of Lululemon for, you know, what I would spend on five pair of leggings off Amazon that are going to fall apart. Yes. So anyway. And then you buy five pair of Lululemon leggings. Yeah, maybe.

Lululemon Athletica, known for its iconic leggings and athletic wear, originated in Vancouver, Canada in 1998. By the early 2010s, it gained immense popularity and became the go-to brand for people of all fitness levels, despite its highway robbery prices.

Whether you were a dedicated gym goer or a busy carpooling mom like I was, Lululemon's stylish high-waisted leggings with the distinctive logo on the waistband were a common sight in almost any arena. And for the young and trendy, particularly those genuinely into yoga and fitness, landing a job at Lululemon in the 2010s was a sick score.

That's like when I used to work at Abercrombie and Fitch. Oh, Dave worked at PacSun. Do you know how validated I felt when they hired me there? I bet. I was like, I am young and hot. I bet. They didn't ask me to take my shirt off though. I heard that they've done that. Yeah, Noel used to have no shirt on out front at the store. Really? Yeah, and I didn't like him. He was out there, no shirt on, hacky-sacking, talking to chicks, and I was in the back folding clothes like a fucking ogre.

How old were you? 19. Oh, so you were in your fitness journey by then. Oh, yeah, I was ripped. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

So as a beacon for such aspirants, the Lululemon store in Bethesda in 2011 attracted a seemingly solid team of employees, including a young woman named Brittany Norwood. Brittany was born on May 19th, 1982, outside Seattle and was the sixth of nine children born to a middle-class family in a suburban neighborhood. 69. Is that when you like smoke? Yeah. What the fuck do you think 420 is, bro?

Britney's childhood was spent attending Sunday mass, soccer camp, and attending private school when her parents could afford it. Her dad, Earl, eked out a living as a furniture upholsterer and worked long hours to support his wife, Larkita, and their nine children. By the time... That's a lot. That's a lot of mouths to feed. I could have been a hedge fund manager. He still would have been eking out a living. You're right.

By the time Brittany was a teenager, her parents had declared bankruptcy twice and were $91,513 in personal debt. But Brittany and her siblings wanted for nothing and were well cared for, well-dressed, and most importantly, loved. Brittany was a stellar soccer player and made varsity as a freshman. She was a fast runner, fearless, and landed a spot on the college team at Stony Brook University on Long Island. Whoa. Yeah, in our neighborhood.

She started in all 19 games of her freshman year, excelled academically, and made really good friends on her team. However, at this juncture in her young adult life, a significant issue began to play a more prominent role. Pop quiz. All right. What was the significant issue that she began to struggle with? Brittany Norwood. Yeah. So weird that...

They did the reverse of what we did. They came from Maryland to go to school on Long Island. We left Long Island to go to school in Maryland. I didn't even go there in my head. You're right. You just always think something further away is better. You do. Or just out of reach. If I don't have it, it must be better than what I do have. Gotta be. So true. So weird. All right. So what did she struggle with? A, kleptomania. B, anger management. C, murder fantasy. Three very distinct possibilities. Kleptomania.

Anger management or murder fantasies. Mm-hmm. Kleptomania. Yes. Correct. You're so proud of yourself. I know. Look at that smile. Do you know why I know that or no? Tell me. She's a young woman. Yeah. Yeah, shoplift. I knew you were going to go there because we've had a discussion about kleptomania before. Yeah. And you've raised that issue, which maybe I should have thought about before I made it a pop quiz. Yeah, and not to generalize, but like it is...

More likely that a young woman will suffer from a shoplifting addiction than let's say a gambling addiction, which is more, more male thing. Yeah. You know, interesting. Brittany started getting a nasty little reputation for stealing all of her friends, wallets, designer clothing and textbooks. So she would steal their textbooks and then resell them and keep the money. Oh, so she was stealing from her friends, not like a CVS. She was doing both.

Oh, okay. But I'm saying she started getting a reputation because she was stealing from her friends. Her friends used to say, Britney's really fun to hang with, but be careful. She steals and she lies. Very funny, but like nail everything down. I mean, I wouldn't be saying that about a friend.

I'd be saying that about a former friend. A former friend, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. By her senior year at Stony Brook in 2003, Brittany only played in 12 soccer games as opposed to 19, how she started. As by then, her teammates had taken their complaints to the coach who began looking less and less favorably upon the once-star soccer player.

Britney's reputation around campus by that point was more or less shot, and she even lost her scholarship that paid for her classes. In her senior year? Yeah. Oh, my God. She dropped out of college just 11 credits shy. Wow, what a loser. Who else would do something like that? I don't know. Not me. I have no idea who would be that close and blow it. Oh, my God. I mean, it happens. I was expelled. Yeah, that's different.

And then I was on a break, let's call it. I took a gap year. Like a Ross and Rachel break? I took a gap year to try and die. Aww. I don't like that. Yeah. So at this point, Brittany decided to move to Washington, D.C. to be closer to her two sisters, Marissa and Candace. She initially got a job working for Bank of America, but then met a dentist named Dr. Morey, with whom she started a romantic relationship while taking a job in his dental practice.

But the relationship did not last, and following their breakup, Dr. Morey actually took out a restraining order against Brittany. Wow. In sworn statements given to the court, Dr. Morey alleged that Brittany would call him weekly after their breakup and show up at his home while he wasn't there. She allegedly stole a Movado watch, a pair of diamond earrings belonging to Dr. Morey's new girlfriend, a bottle of Vera Wang perfume, a Lacoste polo shirt, checks from his new girlfriend's checkbook,

as well as the girlfriend's car keys, house keys, and cell phone. It's giving Martha Scott or Baby Reindeer...

I loved Baby Reindeer. Why did you look at me blankly when I said Martha Scott then? Because it took me a hot second to remember who Martha Scott was. Minus the stealing. Did you finish it? Yeah. I'm not done with it yet. Oh, the acting is so good. Martha Scott was incredible. She is incredible. I saw her in a British comedy series. Oh, really? Yes. So don't tease me about my British shows anymore because...

It was good. And Christopher Walken was in that one. I can't remember the name now, but very good. In the Brit Box show? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it was Brit Box, but probably was. Did he have a British accent? No, he did not. He was the American grandfather. He was like, I know. You're coming at me all wrong. But I like to dance. I don't know. That was bad. So was mine. Okay.

Additionally, Dr. Morey's girlfriend filed a statement with the court indicating that she was in immediate danger and asked the court to order psychological testing for Brittany, who by that point she very much feared.

Brittany also stopped making rent payments at this point on her apartment and just was devolving very quickly. Was she living with her sisters at that point? She was living near her sisters. She moved to D.C. to be closer to them. Oh, okay. Started dating this Dr. Morey, started working for Dr. Morey. He breaks up with her. She starts kind of stalking the new girlfriend, stealing from both of them. We have restraining orders out now, and we're seeing an escalation of deviant behavior.

Brittany soon fell into social isolation and struggled with poor concentration and trouble sleeping. In an effort to combat this, she began hitting the gym twice a day, which seemed to revive her taste for sports and fitness. Thinking now that she may want to pursue a career in personal training, specifically at Equinox Gym, Brittany decided to apply for a job at a very successful, stylish, and fitness-focused store that was all the rage at the time. Dicks. Lululemon. Yeah.

Now, Dick's is your favorite store. I love Dick's. I know. Do you have... Nothing? I've heard... We've been through this so much. Ha ha, you love Dick's. Why is that funny? Shut up. You're supposed to then be like, I have them in so many colors and sizes. I am covered in Dick's right now, 24-7.

When Britney interviewed for the job at Lululemon Athletica, she made a lot of shit up and left a lot of shit out. Yes, you do. She claimed to have graduated from Stony Brook with a 3.4 GPA, even though she didn't graduate and her GPA was a 1.9. I played in 14 games my senior year. Exactly. Try that on. Reported to have been making $55,000 at her last job at the Willard Intercontinental Hotel, which was also a lie.

And obviously, she failed to report her legal issues with respect to the restraining order filed against her by her ex-boyfriend and his terrified girlfriend. Presenting herself as a fit, bright, and determined young woman, Brittany landed the job at Lululemon in Georgetown, where she immediately started to enjoy the employee discount she received on all the pricey merchandise. For our international listeners, Georgetown is in D.C., so that was where she took the job.

So she's getting discounts and she's enjoying her job so far. She's stealing? Until... Co-workers began reporting incidents of missing cash from the store, money taken out of their bags, and registers coming up short, all aligning with when Brittany was on shift.

It was also around this time when Lululemon ran its nationwide employees-only shop night where workers could purchase apparel at 70% off with a $1,000 limit. Nice. All right. I know. It's pretty sweet.

In spite of this policy, Britney more than doubled the purchase limit, racking up $2,196 worth of purchases, which only cost her $659 with the discount. I was just going to say, is that after discount or before discount? So you're only allowed to buy $300 worth of clothes? Yeah. Okay. As a result of this blatant disregard for policy, coupled with the mounting accusations of theft against her, Britney...

Brittany was fired from her position at Lululemon. As they do. And she was pissed. This job was more than just a paycheck. It was a path towards her entire future. A ticket to a job in the fitness world along with a free gym membership, which was at Equinox, which is where she wanted to ultimately work as a fitness trainer. Wait, Lululemon employees get an Equinox? Evidently. Oh, okay. Okay.

So, Britney challenged her manager's decision to fire her and raised the point that 27 other Lululemon employees nationwide had gone over the $1,000 limit at shop night and were not fired from their jobs. Nationwide? Yeah. So, she, like, got into the books or something? She did some research. Wow.

And remarkably, the company's regional office agreed with Brittany and overturned her termination, allowing her not only to return to work, but also to now choose a new store location for her reassignment. Brittany opted to work at the Bethesda location, a decision that tragically wound up costing an innocent young woman her life. So Georgetown to Bethesda. Yep. Okay. Enter Jaina Murray.

Jaina Troxell-Murray was a sociable 30-year-old woman from Texas who was closing in on a dual master's degree in business administration and communication at Johns Hopkins University. Smart cookie.

She had a serious boyfriend whom she'd known since the seventh grade, and the pair had been recently looking at engagement rings while also planning to move to the Pacific Northwest, where they intended to lay their roots and build a life together. Jaina was interested in one day working at Lululemon HQ in Vancouver, having studied their business operations and ethos during one of her post-college courses.

And she decided to cut her teeth by working retail at the Lululemon in Bethesda since she lived in the area while attending John Hopkins. And what was it about Vancouver that just happened? Lululemon HQ was located

was located there. That's Pacific Northwest area. Yeah. I'm just wondering, like she said, she wanted to move to the Pacific Northwest. Eventually. Was that for Vancouver or unrelated? No, I think it was for Vancouver because she learned about Lululemon HQ and her business courses and she knew she wanted to work there. It's a good question. Like, I don't know what came first, if she wanted to live in that area and then... What did she have for breakfast that day? Oh, she had...

Yeah, so she decided she wanted to cut her teeth and get to know Lululemon, which I think was a really smart idea. I always think it's a good idea to like get your hands dirty, like on the ground floor doing the actual work before you like start on top, right? Recover boss, baby. Greatest show of all time. Yes, I used to love that show. It's so good. Okay. Now, of course, though, sadly, this is where she met a lying, stealing, manipulative Brittany Norwood. Because now they're both at the Lululemon in Bethesda.

By this stage, Brittany was in a deep downward spiral. She engaged in a series of deceptive behaviors like regularly stealing and forging checks, pilfering money from her roommate's wallets, and lying about utility bills to overcharge her roommate so she could then pocket the extra cash each month.

Debt collectors relentlessly pursued her, and her bank frequently contacted her about her overdrawn account. Brittany needed more money, and she needed it fast. So she resorted to an alternative method of raking in those sweet-ass Benjamins. Pop quiz? Pop quiz. Felt it. Felt it coming like a, like an earthquake. Mm-hmm.

Pop quiz. What did Britney do for extra money? A, acquire several sugar daddies. B, strip at Empire Gentlemen's Club in Washington, D.C. C, burglarize ritzy homes in Bethesda by posing as a cleaning lady. So, what was the first one? Damn, I'm... Acquire several sugar daddies. Sugar daddies, stripping or stealing as a cleaning lady. Stripping. No.

Sugar daddies. Yes, yes, yes. She responded to Craigslist ads that said, Craigslist? Sugar daddy looking to help and seeking a sweet sugar baby. Need spending money? Rape fantasy? Are you a princess girl in distress in these tough times? Those were the specific ads she responded to. She was like, oh, hell yeah. Yes, yes, sir.

Eventually, Brittany accrued five different sugar daddies on top of having her job at Lululemon, where she'd occasionally work the same shift as Jaina Murray, who by this point had been at the store for two years and was in a supervisory mentor role. Wow. Yeah. Then, on Wednesday, March 9th, the store's manager held a team meeting, which Brittany and Jaina both attended.

And at this meeting, the manager brought up three separate incidents of theft at the store, including perfume and money being stolen from employees' bags. I was just about to ask. So she's been there for some time now, two years, about Britney. Well, this is Jaina. The person in the supervisory mentor role is Jaina. She was there before Britney. Yes. Oh, okay. I was going to say, like, she went pretty long without stealing, but she didn't. She's stealing already. She did not. So at this meeting, the manager brought up

the fact that shit was disappearing from the employees' bags. And it was apparent that there was a thief among them. But without concrete evidence, no one was prepared to openly accuse Brittany despite growing suspicions and her questionable past. However, the tension...

around Brittany was palpable. Other employees, including Jaina, were well aware of who the culprit was and felt increasingly uncomfortable being in Brittany's presence. Sucks. At that point, the other employees had no choice but to continue working alongside Brittany if they wanted to keep their jobs at the store. Consequently, two days later, on Friday, March 11th, Jaina and Brittany found themselves working the same shift together.

After attending to their last customers at the end of the day, Brittany locked the door to the store at exactly 8.57 p.m. She and Jane accounted money, finished reports, swept the floors, and closed down the registers. And this is when things took a turn for the worse. Dun-dun.

Because at around 9.30 p.m., right before leaving the store, Brittany and Jaina went on to perform their final task of the shift, which was to inspect each other's bags. Brittany and Jaina? Yeah. Oh, boy. They closed up Lululemon for the night, and they were one foot out the door. They just had to go through the protocol of checking each other's bags. Yeah.

And sure enough, inside Brittany's bag beneath a black makeup pouch, workout clothing, flip-flops, a candle, and a curling iron was a pair of cropped Lululemon workout pants with the price tag still on. Jaina asked Brittany if she had the receipt, to which Brittany replied no, as she'd already thrown it away. Jaina then indicated that she'd have to check the register when it rebooted and that they'd quote-unquote deal with it later. What?

Words that heartbreakingly likely sealed Jaina's fate. Oh my God. Jaina then set the store alarm at 9.45 p.m. and the two women left. Three minutes after Jaina left the store, she turned the corner outside, crossed Arlington Road, walked down 17 steps into the parking garage and called the store manager, Rachel Ortitelli, to report her suspicion that Brittany had stolen a pair of pants. So Jaina left and called right away.

Jaina, yes. Yeah, Jaina. Jaina. Jaina. Yes. She left and she immediately called Rachel, the store manager, to say, Brittany just stole. Like 100%. She just stole a pair of pants. Gotcha. In response, Rachel indicated that she planned to fire Brittany the following morning. Boy. Six minutes after leaving the store that night, Brittany called her coworker, Isla, to ask for Jaina's cell phone number. Clay

God. God.

But of course, Brittany insisted that she needed Jaina. So Isla gave her Jaina's phone number. Brittany texted Jaina asking her to come back to the store to let her back inside. And Jaina actually was okay with this because coincidentally she left her laptop inside and she figured that she would just pick it up while she was letting Brittany back in to get her wallet and MetroCard. Win-win.

Ten minutes later, Jaina pulled up to the store in her silver Pontiac G5, and at 10.05 p.m., she and Brittany reopened the store and went back inside Lululemon. And sadly, only one of them would wind up walking out. Because according to Brittany...

who was found by Rachel at 9.30 a.m. the next morning, tied up and wounded inside the Lululemon restroom, a horrific act of violence had taken place that night when they went back.

In fact, after being discovered, Brittany, who was bleeding from a substantial gash in her forehead, as well as from cuts on her back, thighs, stomach, and breasts, was brought to Suburban Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland at 1025 a.m. while screaming and crying and asking if Jaina was okay. According to Brittany, who was interviewed at the hospital shortly after her arrival, this is what happened. So this is now her witness statement.

When she and Jaina entered Lululemon, two men covered in dark clothing wearing gloves, ski masks, and hoodies followed them inside. One man was about six feet tall and immediately dragged Jaina to the back of the store by her hair after entering the store. The second assailant, approximately Brittany's height at 5'3", attacked Brittany, threw her to the ground, and demanded money. He coerced Brittany into opening three small safes in the front of the store before moving her to the back,

binding her with zip ties and subjecting her to sexual assault using both his penis and a wooden hanger after slicing a hole open in the crotch of her leggings.

A significant blow to her forehead during the assault left her with difficulty recalling details of the incident thereafter, according to Brittany. But when questioned further about the assailants, Brittany informed Detective Deanna Mackey that her attacker sounded, quote, young and white, and that he'd called her racial slurs as well as a dirty slut. She said,

She also claims that the assailant only allowed her to live because she was, quote, fun to fuck. Brittany is saying all this? Yes. Was she black? Yes. Oh, okay. Okay. Jaina, heartbreakingly, never even made it to the hospital. By the time the medics arrived, along with Detective Randy Kusan and Detective Dimitri Reuven with the Montgomery County Police Department, Jaina had already been dead for hours.

After a forensic investigator named Dale Giampetroni from the state autopsy lab arrived, Jaina's body was placed onto a clear plastic body bag and moved so that additional evidence could be collected and analyzed. The scene was an absolute bloodbath. I was hoping you weren't going to say bloodbath, but you did. It's going to get very graphic, so trigger warning for anybody who may want to skip ahead. I hate the word bloodbath. You know when I heard it first? I mean, I've heard it a million times, but when I heard them say it in Hunger Games. Oh, yeah.

That movie. That hurt my stomach. I know. Well, I read the books, so I even knew what to expect in the movie and still. Yeah. Movies were well done. They were well done. Yeah.

Ten detectives, supervisors, and crime scene investigators filled the Lululemon store and analyzed every inch of Jaina Murray and the surrounding crime scene. Off the bat, they observed that a clump of hair remained in Jaina's clenched fingers, as well as cuts and bruises all over the backs of her hands, suggesting defensive wounds. And at the base of her neck, they immediately observed two significant stab wounds, as well as a third stab wound to the middle of her back.

However, it was the devastating injuries to Jaina's beautiful face that left the entire room in actual stunned silence.

These seasoned detectives and crime scene technicians were shocked and appalled by the level of brutality exhibited on poor Jaina. Her face was completely eviscerated. It was so bad that the entire room was silent but for the forensic investigator saying, oh my god.

Every inch of Jaina was covered in deep gashes and gouges that crisscrossed her forehead, cheeks, lips, and chin. Her face had turned a grotesque shade of purple, indicating significant widespread bruising covering much of her delicate features. Any bruise after you die? No. Oh. And that's an excellent question that I come around to. Okay. Because what does that mean? I do be asking good questions. You do. You always do. It means that she was alive. Yeah. For this attack. Yeah.

She was absolutely unrecognizable. In fact, I read in one of the sources that the responding medics and investigators and crime scene analysts couldn't even tell if she was male or female. Wow. She was so butchered.

In addition to the aforementioned injuries observed at cursory glance, forensic analysts also observed a four-inch open wound on the back of Jaina's head caused by repeated blows which left a staggering amount of blood spatter on the walls. And I've seen pictures of the crime scene. It's like straight-up Dexter. I'm sure.

Looking directly down at Jaina's body, which had been face down, the detectives noticed that her right arm crossed underneath her body coming off the left side, indicating that she had been face up at some point during the attack and then rolled over. Oh, really? In her left hand was a green Buddha statue, which was determined to have been one of the murder weapons and potentially an item that she tried to use in an effort to defend herself.

There were also many other items resting beside Jaina's head, including rope, a claw hammer with a bloody handle, a wrench, three box cutters, an orange Dyson vacuum cleaner covered in blood spatter, two paintbrushes, a roll of duct tape, a bicycle reflector, a red metal toolbox, and a foot-long metal bar.

At this point, Jana's body was taken to the state's $43 million forensic lab located 35 miles away in Baltimore. According to her autopsy, it was likely that Jana reached for her head after the first blows landed, causing her to pull out some of her own hair, which was later found to be in her death grip. Remember I said they saw a clump of hair? That was her own hair. That was her own hair. Okay. After Jana fell to the ground, a rope was tied around her neck. Her hair was tied around her neck.

Her skull sustained 13 fractures, which caused a portion of it to cave into her brain. In total, Jana suffered more than 200 injuries to her face, head, and neck, as well as more than 100 injuries to her hands, shoulders, and arms.

At least seven different weapons had been used against her, including a wrench, hammer, rope, two box cutters, a little metal pig that was part of a display, and the green Buddha statue. Now, question. Yeah. You may know the answer, you may not. Is 200 injuries on the head area is a lot of injuries in a small area. Mm-hmm. Is that more a function of the killer being an absolute lunatic? Mm-hmm. Or...

how strong she was fighting back. I think it's an example of both. I think that the killer obviously was displaying signs of overkill, which is something we've talked about before, right? 200 injuries to someone's face, making them unrecognizable is overkill. So I think that that's obviously indicative of an absolutely maniacal person completely out of control.

But I also think that it speaks to the strength that Jaina had when she was defending herself and fighting back because, which I mentioned a little bit later in the case, but I'll mention it now.

that the blood in the wound path bruised, okay, showing that she sustained her injuries while she was still alive. Yeah. So she was fighting back. She had a final count of 331 individual wounds in total. I can't even imagine how they distinguish between...

this injury and that injury, there's 200 on the head? Head, neck, yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, the coroner goes literally over the body with like a fine-tooth comb. Yeah. There's no piece of evidence that can be overlooked, right? Yeah. You have to look at it all and examine it all. And in doing that, you

You learn these things. Yeah. The attack by Jane as a salient or a salience, according to Brittany, was likely to have lasted about 17 minutes. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? 17 minutes of just sheer brutality that you are somehow surviving. I mean, she really was so strong physically and mentally. The only solace I have here is that I know that every feel-good chemical in the brain is dumped immediately.

Yeah. At event. And it's at least numb, if not like euphoric from what I had, obviously I've never. Yeah. I happen to have just read an article in the New York times, not just maybe like a week ago. And there's a man who studies people in their final moments in life. And,

And he reports that literally every single person, regardless of what their cause of death was at the time, appears to be in a completely euphoric state in those final moments. So I certainly hope that was the case for Jaina. The worst injury that she sustained was the four-inch gash at the base of her skull in which a knife had entered and chipped off a piece of vertebrae and punctured her brain.

Oh my God. Eliminating voluntary movements and her ability at that point to fight back. Oh my God. The most she would have been able to survive after sustaining that injury was 90 seconds. Meaning, that was the fatal blow.

An autopsy technician named Mario Alston indicated that out of the 3,000 autopsies he's helped to conduct, this was by far the most horrific case he had ever seen. Sure. Brittany's injuries, however, were far less severe. And of course, amazingly, she was still alive to tell the tale.

Following her initial interview at the hospital, detectives conducted three additional interviews over the course of the next four days. Again, each interview was just her as a witness. The first interview took place at 10.25 a.m. in the hospital the morning after the incident. The second interview took place at 8 p.m. on March 14th in Brittany's home. The third interview took place at 5 p.m. on March 16th at police headquarters, and the last one took place at 10 a.m. on March 18th again at HQ.

All the while, the Montgomery County Police Department got to work trying to locate the two depraved men responsible for killing Jana Murray and severely injuring Brittany Norwood.

But here's the thing. Each time law enforcement interviewed the survivor, Brittany, they uncovered more and more inconsistencies in her story, noticing pretty early on that the evidence was not quite lining up. And like my mother, Mrs. Slater always says, to be a good liar, you need to have an outstanding memory. And Brittany did not.

So let's go through the inconsistencies and mounting concerns that Detective Reuven in particular was starting to have regarding Brittany's account of events. One, Brittany neglected to mention that Jaina had called her out for shoplifting minutes before the assault occurred.

They learned that Jaina had even called the store manager, Rachel, on her way home that night to report the incident. Then investigators became aware of the text conversation between Brittany and Isla, during which Isla suggested to Brittany that it might be more logical for her to call Rachel, the store manager, to bring the key back to the store after learning that she left her MetroCard and wallet inside. But Brittany remained adamant, of course, that it had to be Jaina who came back to let her in. Yeah. Red flag.

Two, tucked away at the rear of the store within a box concealed behind other boxes. So like all the way in the storage room, there were zip ties. And just to be clear. Yeah. There's a lot of fucking boxes back there. Yeah. This is a storage room in Lululemon. I wanted to paint the picture. Paint it. Okay. So if you've got more. Not just like a back room where there's like four or five boxes. We were talking like.

hundreds of boxes where something's buried. Yeah, if anybody's ever worked in retail, you know what those storage rooms look like. And she's able to find it. Exactly. So there were zip ties in this box in the storage room. Yeah. Identical to the ones that were used in binding Brittany's wrists and ankles. So the question that arose was...

how two random perpetrators off the street would have possessed the precise knowledge of where to search in the back storage area to find these zip ties. Yeah, no. By the way, up to this point, still not enough, obviously.

What? This evidence. Oh, yeah. Okay. These are just like, this is what's not lining up. Yeah, this is like, huh, okay. Let's bring her in again, I guess. Let's interview her again. Yeah. Let's have her explain this again. And then every time they would do that, something else would pop up. It was like whack-a-mole. Yeah. You know what I mean? Three, after being discharged from the hospital on March 14th, Brittany introduced new details during her interview that raised eyebrows.

Among these were her claim that her assailant had rifled through her purse during the attack and had seen a Comcast bill from which he could have learned her home address. Again, for our international listeners, Comcast is a TV internet service. So she had a bill in her purse.

But this revelation prompted a critical question. If the assailant had distanced himself enough to inspect her purse and was rifling through it and looking at what was written on the envelope, why had Brittany not seized the opportunity to escape? Because according to her own timeline of events, she was not tied up yet. So running out, or at least attempting to, would have been a possibility. Didn't happen. And I think in the UK, Comcast is called Crumpetcast. Sorry.

This is pretty good. For our BritBox listeners. Love BritBox. Our CrumpetCast customers. Okay, for? A cuppa cast. A cuppa. I always say cuppa all the time. I want a cuppa. Okay. Just wanted to mention that. Cool.

Fuck you, man. Only you're allowed to talk about your fun British things. I'm the one with the Brit box. I love Brit box. Leave me alone. Inconsistency number four. Okay. Are you keeping track here? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. In one of her interviews, Brittany claimed that the killers pushed her onto Jaina's dead body to psychologically torment her, explaining why she was covered in Jaina's blood. That was her explanation. However, this scenario raises questions because,

Why would these alleged attackers engage in such a psychological game when there were still people nearby, such as the employees at the neighboring Apple store, shoppers around Bethesda, security guards, again, like the one that was in the Apple store is one example. This level of risk-taking does not align with the behavior of opportunistic killers, which shudders.

she described these killers as being. Yeah, they're there for a burglary. All of a sudden, they're playing psychological games. Exactly. Furthermore, it's exceedingly rare for two opportunistic, spontaneous killers to effectively operate as a pair while we're on the topic. The complexities of trust, coordination, and aligning motives make it challenging, not impossible, but nearly impossible for two such individuals to successfully execute a crime together.

Weird thing. Yeah. I always like in movies when there's a group of people doing crime and there's one who's like an extra asshole criminal. Yeah. And he like shoots somebody or whatever. And then everyone's like, oh, come on, Greg. What the fuck, dude? Like, I'm always like, okay, good. It's not just me. Like, I hate that guy too. He's a problem.

A problem amongst the problems. Exactly. Even the criminals know it. That's true. There's a checking order everywhere. Also, shout out to Netflix for finally catching on and making intros to TV shows non-existent. Realizing today, watching Baby Reindeer, it's like, thank God there's no more intros. I mean, you could have just skipped it, no? Yeah, I guess, but what's the point? So you don't have to watch it and then have to thank God when it stops playing? Well, they don't do it anymore. I know. Okay.

Inconsistency number five. My favorite inconsistency. Yep, that's why I said it like that. The injuries that Brittany sustained were a series of superficial cuts across her back, thighs, stomach, and breasts. And I've seen pictures. They literally look like if you scratch your arm on the corner of a table or something like that. You know what I mean? I mean, they were cuts, but... Self-inflicted maybe? However, a notable anomaly emerged when examining these cuts.

All of the wounds exhibited identical characteristics of being straight and deep.

which raised questions as it seemed unusual that the injuries would maintain such uniformity given the expected struggle and movements that would occur during such a violent attack, which would typically result in irregular wounds. Yeah. Inconsistency number six, and there's just one more after this one. There's so many already. There's so many. The sexual assault nurse's examination performed on Brittany, because remember she said that she was raped. Oh yeah. Showed no signs of vaginal tearing or tenderness, a finding that

did not correspond with the expected physical indicators of sexual assault, whether it was, you know, a man and his penis or a wooden hanger. She said she was raped by both. There were signs of neither. Yeah. And then the last inconsistency for now is that Brittany reported that the attackers used racial slurs, again, sexually assaulted her, committed robbery, engaged in psychological manipulation, murdered Jaina, spared Brittany, and accomplished all

of this without carrying any weapons on them, instead relying upon very specific items from back rooms of the store that they were somehow able to locate. Yeah, yeah. You got a gun? I don't know. Lululemon's fucking always got shit. We're going to Lululemon. We're going to be fine. There's a green Buddha statue there. I've seen it. I'm going to use that. Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you, out of all of those, and I don't know if this is

out of turn for me to say this, but the claim of being raped and not being raped is like the biggest one for me. Cause obviously it must be such a,

huge thing for a woman to say, oh yeah, there was a robbery. They killed my friend and coworker and I was raped. And then it's not true. It's like how that's not something people lie about. This is one reason why women are not all women, but why some women and survivors of sexual assault are afraid to come forward and not just women, men, anybody afraid to come forward.

Because they're afraid of being doubted. And the reason why they're afraid of being doubted is for girls like this, women like this. People who weaponize sexual assault when it's not happening. It's just so... Twisted. It is. It's so twisted. Exactly.

Needless to say, at this point, Detective Dimitri Reuven knew that something was not right here. And over the next two days following that final interview, additional evidence to support his hunch continued to pop up left and right.

Interestingly, though, CCTV footage from cameras outside the Apple Store next door did indeed capture two adult men dressed in all black walking past the back of Lululemon on the night of the incident. Really? Yes. And while their faces were not visible, sure enough, one man was noticeably taller than the other, just as Britney had described the assailants.

To follow up, investigators decided to conduct a good old-fashioned stakeout outside the back of Lululemon in hopes of catching these men returning to the scene of the crime. Long shot, but they went for it. And surprisingly, the men on the CCTV footage did in fact return.

However, after police questioned them, it was determined that these individuals were in no way connected to the crime against Jaina Murray and allegedly Brittany Norwood. They were actually waiters from a nearby restaurant and wore all black as part of their work uniform, and they would have to walk past Lululemon to get home every night. And she probably saw them walk by and said, that's who I'm going to blame this on. Absolutely. I haven't read that in a source, but my mind went there too. I'm like, oh, she knew what she was doing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Then a crucial piece of evidence was analyzed, which turned out to be the linchpin of the case. Pop quiz. What was this piece of evidence?

A, the letters B-R-I-T, Brit, were found written in Jaina's blood on the floor. A haunting final message perhaps left by Jaina. B, a picture of Jaina deceased on Britney's phone. Oh my God. C, a large set of footprints intentionally staged to cover up every single one of Britney's bloody footprints. Brit written in blood.

Big footprints. And what was the other one? A picture of Jaina deceased in Britney's phone. A picture of Jaina deceased? No. Big footprints? Yes.

So big footprints, which she obviously planted or whatever. Yes, exactly. So there were two distinct sets of bloody shoe prints discovered inside the Lululemon store. Forensic analysts determined that one set belonged to a pair of men's Reebok sneakers, size 14, which was consistent with a pair of sneakers kept in the back of the store and used only for alterations. Okay.

The other set, however, originated from sneakers belonging to Britney. Notably, and this is important, neither of these sets of shoe prints left the store until...

Rather, both of them led to a slop sink located in the remote rear of the store, a detail that only someone well acquainted with the store's layout would know. And the size... The slop sink being the detail. Yeah. Okay. And the size 14 footprints were discovered on top of Brittany's footprints and only on top of Brittany's footprints. I

I mean, I get what she was trying to do, but the execution was just so bush league. Everything. I mean, there are so many red flags here. So many botched, you know, less than intelligent plans. And the worst part is like she, I know, I mean, I don't know, but like I'm assuming that when she's doing all this stuff, she's like, I'm so fucking smart, dude. I mean, I can't believe it.

No one's going to believe. So two people walk by. This didn't happen, right. There's a pair of 14 shoes. Mm-hmm.

I'm going to get away with this for sure. Exactly. As a result, at this point, law enforcement formulated a theory or a suspicion, whatever you want to call it at this point, that Brittany had been the one to place the men's shoes on her own feet intentionally. She stepped in blood and she walked around the crime scene with the aim of creating the illusion that a male presence had been at the crime scene and that she hadn't been up and walking. Yeah, but he floated out.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. What's it called? Astro Project. He jumped so far.

Brittany mentioned that Jaina, this also came up in her interviews. Brittany mentioned that Jaina initially parked her silver Pontiac illegally in front of the store for a quick entrance. Because remember, she thought she was just unlocking the door for Brittany to run and get her MetroCard. You know, she was going to grab her laptop. So she parked illegally. However, Montgomery police officer Justin Tierney, who happened to be patrolling downtown Bethesda while working security off duty that night,

Did he know her car or he just saw a car with lights on?

He couldn't identify the single occupant in the car, but he did notice someone just sitting there. Detectives later searched Jaina's car and discovered blood on various surfaces, including the door handle, driver's floor mat, stick shift, and steering wheel. They also found a red smudge approximately the size of a fingertip on a Lululemon hat, which closely matched the location of Brittany's forehead injury.

Despite this less than favorable evidence... Wait, hold on. Say that one more time again. I'm sorry. Small smudge on a hat that matched her forehead injury? So Brittany had a gash on her forehead? Brittany had a gash on her forehead. They find a hat now in Jaina's car with blood matching the location... Got it. Suggesting what? That she put it on... Exactly. ...to go outside and cover her bloody head. Exactly. Yeah, okay. When confronted with the discovery of blood in Jaina's relocated car...

Now Brittany all of a sudden changed her story. She now claimed that the attacker forced her to move Jaina's car because it was parked illegally and the attacker didn't want like the police to notice. So he's like, go move the car so we don't get busted. She even mentioned seeing a police officer, likely patrolman Tierney, but she said she was just too afraid to call for help when she was being forced to move the car. Can you imagine being Brittany, not for real, but just in this scenario, like,

You kill someone over a pair of fucking sweatpants, by the way. And you go outside to move the car and you see a cop.

That's, I mean, obviously that's why she froze. It could be. There's theories also that she froze because she was just figuring out her next move. Or she was just reeling from the experience or whatever. Any number of reasons, exactly. Or all of them. Right. Now it's important to highlight that she was alone in the car at that moment and that the alleged attackers were supposedly still inside the store. So why didn't she seek assistance from the police officer or simply drive away? Right.

Yeah. Right? If she was being attacked, it just doesn't make sense. Yeah. What investigators began to posit was that Brittany moved Jaina's car to buy herself more time because Jaina double parked outside Lululemon. And then she sat in the vehicle contemplating her next move, or maybe she was frozen because she saw the cop. If I saw him, did he see me? Whatever.

Finally, it was also determined that the tear in the seat of Jaina's pants and underwear had been intentionally made with precision, of course suggesting that it had been staged. Yes. Brittany had from 10 p.m. on the night of the murder until 8 a.m. the next morning to alter the crime scene and cover her tracks. Wow. And that's exactly what she did or she tried to do. All the physical evidence contradicted Brittany's narrative.

All of it. He literally covered her tracks. Right. As such, on March 18th, 2011, Brittany Norwood was arrested and charged with first degree premeditated murder and second degree specific intent to commit murder. Premeditated, huh? Yeah. I guess. Yeah, because she made her go back there. Very good. Very good.

Following an eight-day trial spanning from late October into early November of 2011, prosecutor Mary Beth Aries argued that Britney's ability to present as an innocent, typical human being is what makes her so special.

dangerous. The prosecutor stated, quote, as humans, we want to believe it's the masked men. We want that. That makes us feel better. You don't want to believe that it's the articulate, educated, attractive girl next door. You don't want to believe that because that's someone you might trust. The jury ultimately rendered a verdict of guilty for first degree murder. And on January 27th, 2012, Judge Robert Greenberg determined that

Brittany Norwood was beyond rehabilitation and therefore imposed she be confined to the Maryland Division of Correction for the balance of her natural life without the possibility of parole. Sometimes you gotta fucking do that. I mean, he really cracked the whip.

Judge Greenberg directed the following statement to Britney. You will live. You will see another sunrise, another sunset. It may be through a prison window. There'll be Christmases. There'll be telephone calls. There'll be visits. The only visits Jaina Murray will have are those to her grave. So let's just talk about

for a moment, like a brief moment about a potential motive, right? Because you said earlier, obviously, like all of this over, you know, a pair of sweatpants or leggings or whatever, right? Which it wasn't. It was more probably about her job. Well, interestingly, yeah, the jury did not hear a motive for the killing from Brittany's defense attorney, Douglas Wood, because he argued that she simply snapped during a fight with a co-worker. Yeah. But

the lead prosecutor here, Montgomery County State's Attorney John McCarthy, suggested that the motive for the killing came earlier in that day after Jaina discovered stolen merchandise in Brittany's bag, suggesting premed.

premeditation. The plan that Britney formed involved planted evidence, phony injuries, and a pathological series of hundreds of fabrications. McCarthy indicated, and this is a quote, her cunning and her ability to lie is almost unparalleled.

McCarthy later went on to interview people who knew Britney to try to uncover more while also consulting with his co-counsel, who I mentioned earlier, Mary Beth Aries, who conducted research in psychopathy. Do you want to say psychopathy? Psychopathy. Because you like that word. Yeah. So he believes that Britney was born miswired. That's his term.

This section of Britney's brain where a conscience should be simply hadn't fully developed and Britney spent her life filling that gap in her brain with her own thrills from stealing from her friends, lying to her family and colleagues, becoming a sugar baby, right? Generally having a diminished sense of right and wrong, which

Which I just, I don't know if I can get behind that because I think she knew what she was doing was wrong, but she did it anyway to serve her own needs. I know. You think that people have all this self-will and self-control and they just don't. Yeah, I do. But that's because you have it. Okay, that's a fair point. But I still think that she made the decision. I don't think that she was like, here are my choices.

You know what I mean? My choices are like, oh, I don't have any good choices. Okay, I'll go kill her. I think that she was like, I could leave and I could see what happens or I could kill her. I'm going to kill her. She chose that tool. Yeah. I've learned recently that the argument that we have about people doing their best is

is basically it's an age-old debate. I'm sure. We were using different words, but it's self-will versus determinism. And I'm more of a determinist person. Yeah. Not meaning that your future is determined, but your actions in the right now are informed by every moment of your life up to that point. And it's very hard to break free of where you were born, who your parents were, the experiences you had when you were younger, how you reacted to them, your brain chemistry, everything. I mean, 43 years of it is...

It points you in a direction for short. You have a choice when you get there. Some people like to believe so. I believe you do. But I think that what helps you make that choice is also determined. You know what I mean? Well, this is the closest I've come to agreeing with this. The way you just explained it. Yeah. That your past informs your present. Yeah. I also think that it's possible that

She did go back in there to kind of maybe scare Jaina or threaten her, and Jaina was no pushover. She started fighting back, and then it just got out of control. But the problem with that as a circumstance, I'm not excusing it. Yeah. Because...

It's like in the Scissor Sisters where they killed the guy because he was attacking their mother, but then they fucking dismembered him, which shows it's almost like the opposite of premeditation. It's like postmeditation. I don't know. Whatever it is, where she killed her, and then instead of calling the police...

She spent 10 hours trying to cover up her, her tracks and make it look normal. Cause like the shoplifting to murder pipeline, it's not way too extreme. It's not that clear. Right. It's just interesting though, because you talk about how like the past informs your, your present. Right. And I, I actually, you had me there.

But she came from a loving and stable family. She'd been given every chance in the world, from scholarships to job opportunities to romantic relationships. Yet she stole, she stalked, she hurt people around her.

And maybe that's like a mad versus bad type of argument, you know? Or a chemistry thing where she can only feel excited from extreme activities. Psychopathy. You know? Right. Is that what psychopathy is? It's part of it. It's having to do a lot more to feel what somebody else can feel doing a lot less. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah.

She was cunning. In my opinion, she was sadistic and she was cruel. She tortured Jaina for 17 minutes and watched her die a slow and agonizing death until that final death blow was delivered. Now, was Brittany Norwood an opportunistic killer?

Maybe to a certain degree, yes, in the sense that she appeared to take advantage of a specific situation to commit her crime. But the term opportunistic killer typically refers to someone who commits a murder without any premeditation when an opportunity presents itself suddenly. In the context of the Lululemon murder here, although the attack was brutal and involved premeditation in staging the crime seemed to look like a robbery...

the initial confrontation that led to Jaina Murray's death might have begun as a spontaneous act escalating from another motive such as anger or fear of being caught in a theft. Brittany Norwood's actions after the crime, staging the scene, lying to the police about attackers and attempting to cover up her involvement, showed a level of calculation and manipulation that went beyond mere opportunism.

These actions indicate a blend of opportunistic behavior coupled with calculated steps to mislead the investigation, which complicates a straightforward classification as merely an opportunistic killer. Instead, her actions suggest a mix of impulsivity and deliberate planning. Jaina Murray was an absolutely beautiful, innocent young woman with her whole life ahead of her. She was adventurous, hardworking, intelligent, and very loved.

She was an adrenaline junkie who loved living. She bungee jumped, skydived, drank margaritas, and danced salsa and tap.

She loved to travel and explore new cultures and visited almost every single continent. The only one missing was Antarctica. Wow. On the 11th day of every month, Jane's close friends from her hometown in Texas organize a lunch or a happy hour to celebrate their departed friend, to share stories, and to honor the life she lived and deserved to continue living. Oh, they do that now? Yeah. Oh, that's sad. I thought they were like...

doing a Zoom happy hour with her from Texas while she was alive. No, no, no, no, no. This is to honor her memory. Yeah. Jaina liked to say, if you're afraid to do something, go do it. And her parents now choose to live their lives according to a poem called As I Sit in Heaven that captures what they feel Jaina tries to communicate to them every single day they live without her. And this is the quote.

So live your life, laugh again, enjoy yourself and be free. Then know with every breath you take, you'll be taking one from me. Wow. And that's the case. That's a lot of a case. Yeah. That's really, really sad.

Yeah, that's a really horrific case. Yeah, what the prosecutor said about how you want it to be the masked man, like you don't want it to be the cute girl working at Lululemon. Yeah, of course. I mean, that's what makes it so chilling. Those are like the scariest types of, in my opinion, stories. It's like not even so much the guy lurking in the shadows. I mean, that's scary too. Yeah. But it's the...

pretty girl working at Lululemon that scares the shit out of me. I know. People just are always enthralled. Like, I've been recently trying to nail down what the criteria are for me for stuff that I post. And I was doing it for Influencers in the Wild and then Thanksgiving News and I was talking to these people that are going to be helping me post and

And I was like, influencers in the wild, whatever, what works is like when somebody's doing something they're not supposed to do in an area they're not supposed to do it in front of people they shouldn't be doing it in front of. Like that girl doing the Macarena with goth makeup on in a nice neighborhood. Middle of a neighborhood. Whack job. Weirdo. But then for Tank's Good News, I was like, the stories that do well on there are when somebody does something that they shouldn't be able to do or whatever. It was like a very similar criteria. I was like, holy crap.

It's all like surprise. Surprise is such an important element of everything. Yeah. Everything. Tony Robbins said, and this is not my tidbit, maybe it should be. He said something like people need a certain amount of predictability and a certain amount of spontaneity in their day. If it's all predictable, boring, dead, basically like what are you even doing leaving the house? And if it's all spontaneous, it's too chaotic. You can't keep up like this. You don't want to leave. So true. So you need a good balance of, of both.

But my tidbit, my tank's tidbit for this week, my tank's titties, is I think I've told you I've been like neck deep in Michael Singer. Yes. The untethered soul, living untethered, the surrender experiment, whatever.

He's got me really thinking about the fact that it's not that I don't have energy. I don't have excitement about something. Okay. I do. I do try to, I'm just doing it way more now. I'm trying to get excited about stuff that I wouldn't normally be excited about. However, if it was the first time I was doing it, I would be excited. Why am I driving up to my house like it's the 700th time that I've driven up here when it's the first time that I'm doing it right now?

Because your past informs your present. Yeah, but if you're in the present and not letting the past, this is like where that whole thing comes up because like ideally you would be acting with the knowledge. This is, Michael, you should write this down. You'd be acting with the knowledge of the past, but not the emotions. Oh. So you wouldn't be reacting or- How do you regulate your emotions like that?

Because like what you feel is what you feel. Like you're going to feel what you're feeling driving up your driveway. Yeah, but I also have tremendous control over my emotions. Not so much when they're already raging. Like I do have a hard time bringing down bad emotions. But I wait it out. I don't like indulge or make them worse. But I've gotten very good at like welling up something good when there's nothing happening. Hmm. Which is more than... That's the secret sauce there. Intense.

Yeah. Yeah.

Every day that I stay sober, it's like, this is the longest I've ever stayed sober ever. Every single, every second that goes by. Absolutely. I don't lose that. But with certain things I do. And that's probably a survival mechanism so that you're not always like, wow, this apple's so good. Everyone's like, this guy's so annoying. Oh my God. So we don't kill each other as a species. Apple before, dude. Jesus, shut up.

I'm allergic to apples, by the way. I know. It just, that's the food. That's a weird example. The food that popped into my head. All right. It's a boring food. It's delicious. It keeps doctors away. Exactly. Yeah, I'm just trying to like conjure up excitement rather than conjuring up worry or stress or anxiety because like I'm good or I should say I've hitherto. Nice. Nice.

Been good at imagining the worst thing that could possibly happen and historically not so good at imagining the best thing that could possibly happen unless I'm so deliberate and intentional about it, but I'm becoming more deliberate and intentional about it. And therefore I'm not sleeping anymore. I'm not eating differently. I'm not exercising differently. My energy levels are up because I'm more excited.

So if you feel slothful or whatever, try and find something that you're excited about. And if you can't find something you're excited about, find excitement in something that you already have. True crime, psychopedia. That's my place. Exactly. I can get up at five in the morning. No problem. I know that... Do research for this. I can wake up at 5 a.m. to go fishing. Exactly. Or go skiing. Exactly right. If I have to get up at 5 a.m. to do like, I don't know what, clean my house? No.

Not happening. Oh, I'll wake up at eight. I'm good. If at all. Yeah. Don't know if I even want to wake up to do that. But when I wake up early to work on psychopedia, I am like coffee brewing, open the windows, like feeling great. So we have special energy reserved for special moments, but they're all special moments. They are. But are they? Yeah. Can they all be special if they're all special? Like, you know what I mean? Yes. What makes it special then? It's just the new status quo. Your approach to it.

Hmm. Yeah. I think we'll discuss on Patreon because I'm going places in my head now. All right. Good. Good. All right. Well, if you made it this far, you must have a tremendous amount of energy and excitement for us. And we thank you for that. And we appreciate you listening and we are so glad you're here.

And before we wrap up, I do want to read some Patreon names because I'm excited. I know. We're on and off. It's okay. They're so good. You have to. It's just got to be on. Well, there's some normal ones. I don't want to exclude those people just because they don't know how to change their name because I remember signing up for a Patreon and you were supposed to change your name and make it something cool and I couldn't. I can't do shit on the internet. No, exactly. So shout out to Jeff Sontag. Hi, Jeff.

Mega Mega Ding Dong. That's good. Nipple Lamb. Shout out to you. Scissor Sister Tiffany. That's a recent one. That was so fresh. That's a real recent one. What's up, girl? B-Langa Beer. I don't think that's a special one. They just have a very cool name. That's cool, man. Yeah. Very cool.

And Teddy No Eyes. I don't know what that means. Teddy No Eyes. But if you are Teddy No Eyes on Patreon, please write us a message and let us know what the fuck you're talking about. Because I need to know. I know it's not nothing. It's got to be a teddy bear with no eyes? No, I know. It's got to be something, but I don't know. We don't know what. So you got to tell us because it's going to be a problem for us. So please write us a message and explain yourself and let us know what Teddy No Eyes is.

And we'll appreciate it. Yeah. Very happy. All right. So thank you for listening. Thank you for doing all the work to bring us this case in heartbreaking detail and rich picture painted detail. Thank you. My pleasure or whatever. My pleasure as always. Yes. And we will see you guys at the next episode. Thanks everyone. Bye.