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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my partner in true crime. Investigators later. Yeah, that one worked. Although I actually almost forgot my name for a second. What you listeners don't know is that was our 72nd take. As always, I don't know why I say as always, but it just feels like he's always here. We have cash in the building. Yeah, baby boy.
Cash was aggressively loving me when he got here today. I knew that he had it in him, but man, he let it out when he saw you. He was trying some things. He was. I think I saw his tongue go in your mouth once or twice. He was trying to get a leg up on my leg and really get in there to love me up. You weren't exactly pushing him away. No, I wasn't. I was welcoming him. I was trying to pull him up by his butt. I saw that. Fat butt. I love it. The caboose.
Big news in our podcast today. Do you know? No, we love it. It's the best ever. We got a 4.9 on Apple. Thank you, listeners. I have a very strange hang up about that rating on Apple. You do have a strange relationship with that. But hey, you know what?
Love feels good. What are you going to do? So does 4.9. Yeah, 4.9 is about as close to heaven as we're going to get doing this true crime podcast talking about these despicable characters. But 4.9 is pretty good and we feel good about it. That's on Apple. Spotify is still at 4.8 if you want to head on over there and slap that five-star rating. Just give me the fuel I need.
Rate, obviously. Review, subscribe, listen, share, love, cash, hello, podcast. This is... Psychopodia. Psychopodia, yeah. We got some serious names going in the Patreon right now. Yeah, I saw you post about that. You know about that? That's pretty sick. You know what? My friends Chris DiStefano and Yanis Papas used to have a podcast called The History Hyenas.
And all of their people would give crazy names to make them laugh. And I feel like that's what's happening here. And I feel great about it. On Patreon, you mean? On Patreon, yeah. Sarah Shabizness. Nailed it. Came in. I'm going to read a couple of these. Sarah Shabizness. Jen Aduzi. Ooh, I like it.
They're coming in hot. So a little bit later, I'm going to read some of the Patreon names to give them some love and some shine. Because like we just said, love feels good. Yes, it does. You know, you come halfway. We're going to meet you. We're going to probably knock you back a little bit because we're going to come at you so hard with that love. You come halfway. You're going back to a quarter. You come 50. We go 100. Yeah, exactly. We're back. You didn't even have to move. But because you did, we met you more than halfway. I think, what else do I want to say? I just love these listeners. Oh, this is what I wanted to say.
There are so many podcasts out there. There's so many. And the fact that people listen to us do this is really something. That is never lost on me. Yeah, it doesn't go unnoticed. It doesn't. I think about that when I see the amount of downloads that we have, obviously, because we have all the metrics behind the scenes. Every single time I'm looking at our Instagram page grow. And here's what I love. Our listeners, as we always say, they're family members.
But they like speak our language. They are us. They're not just, I feel like, driving by, like clicking and moving on. No, it's not a passive listen. Exactly. Yeah. They're really in it. And the same is true for the socials and the emails we get and the DMs. They are in these cases. They are in our lives. They know our personalities.
It's phenomenal. You know what's funny? Every once in a while, I'll open up a DM or an email that's long, and I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. Really? I purposely read those. No, not because it's long, because I think they're about to rip us a new one. Oh, oh, oh, oh. And then it's never that. Yeah. How lucky are we? Thank you to our listeners. Thank you for making us feel so blessed. We got a great community here of little psychos, little freaks, seeming demons over on Patreon, patreon.com slash psychopedia pod. If, if,
No pressure. But if you're feeling like you want a little more of the shabizness and you want more us, over there we revisit cases that left an impact on us, really just stuck with us, and we barely talk about them. Yeah. Well, I mean, the idea is to discuss them, but then a lot of other ideas happen. We do. We do try, but it is psychopedia unhinged over there, and that's what you get. It should be called Tang Sinatra unhinged. Let's be real. Maybe we could do another one.
Another spin-off. Maybe. Yeah, I'm into that. So without further ado, you have a new case for me. I have no idea what I'm about to get into. I have been really good about staying out of the true crime ecosphere. Good. Good for you. On Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. I just scroll past. I'm like, I don't even want to know. Even though I do want to know more than ever because now I'm into it. Yeah. It's very difficult for me. The discipline is...
is high in this one. Right. Yeah. Good job. I commend you. I'm really trying hard. Before we start the case, I want to highlight something. I want to tell a quick little pre-story as a precautionary note. Okay. So sometimes on occasion, I'll read the case, my case script, the notes to Dave, my husband, before you and I actually record because I want his feedback or I want to see if something I wrote hit, right? Oh yeah. He's like my test group.
So a few nights ago, I walked him through certain aspects of today's case, not even the whole thing. And at first he was like very, you know, responsive and very tuned in, very dialed in. And then all of a sudden, like a cloud kind of like washed over his face. He got real, real quiet.
and he could not allow me to continue. He got so emotionally messed up by some aspects of this case that I was reading that not only did I have to stop, I had to hug him for like a while, which, you know, was a pleasure. And then he stress ate sourdough pretzels for like an hour. Wow. Yeah. And this is a firefighter we're talking about. Like he sees things. He's not
You know, somebody that gets overly affected or overly emotional where he can't function. Yeah, he's a tough guy. He's a tough guy. And then the next day, he was like, I just, I cannot get the image out of my head. Oh, fuck. Maybe I don't even want to listen to this. So my point in bringing this is the following. I urge you to take Firefighter Dave's reaction as a trigger warning, particularly since today's discussion pertains to teenagers and...
And it is absolutely heartbreaking. So please, please listen with caution. And me and him are very similar. As a matter of fact, we're others. And if he had an existential crisis, I'm probably going to have one too. Not looking good for you, Tank. No, it's not feeling good either. Well, you know what? I'm just going to be professional. Okay. Good for you. Yeah. It's not his job to sit there and listen to that. But it's certainly yours. You're like my prisoner. Yeah. I like it. Captive audience. Can't leave. Okay. You ready? Yes, I am.
In a small California town in the 1990s... Oh my God, this is terrible. Oh boy, brace yourself.
All right, California, 1990s. A female high school student home alone one night received an unexpected phone call from an unfamiliar person. The girl didn't recognize who the caller was, so she hung up the phone accordingly. However, the caller rang again and this time initiated conversation with the girl before she could hang up. Slightly irritated, but really having nothing else to do at the moment, the girl decided to be spontaneous and to continue speaking with the unknown man on the other end of the line while she made herself a snack in the kitchen.
The two strangers mostly engaged in small talk, really just some random back and forth banter about trivial topics like movies and whatever. And then the caller got a bit more personal and asked the girl what her name was. When the girl asked the caller why he was interested in knowing her name, he chillingly replied,
Because I want to know who I'm looking at. Is this the plot of Scream? It sure is. Yeah, that was scary. It sure is. So what I was going to go on to say... Oh, sorry. Yep, is the following. Well, I can't now because you just... Well, in fairness to me, I knew it was Scream three seconds in. Really? Yeah. The phone call, the movies, making a snack in the kitchen. Yeah, I can picture Drew Barrymore doing all that. Well, what I was going to say... So you're welcome. Is that...
For those who haven't seen Scream, the rest of that scene is pretty brutal. Yeah, it is. This girl in her home ends up getting attacked by the guy who is now not on the phone line, but rather standing in front of her. So scary. And he stabs her and he essentially guts her and strings her up on a tree and her insides come...
out of her body. Yeah. Okay. And that's the scene that as a 14 year old, I witnessed and absolutely was slightly traumatized. Here I am at 40 talking about it. Right. I saw that guy with the mask in my backyard after I saw that movie. I don't doubt it. I know in my mind, like it was there for sure. But the gruesome crime in that movie that I just semi recounted,
was nothing compared to the absolute horror and shock and pain that I felt researching this case. And the reason why I draw the parallel between that movie and this case is because this case, the murder that happened,
was based or inspired by the movie Scream. No, it was a copycat? Yeah. Oh, fuck that. In many ways. Not in all ways, but in many ways. I thought you brought up Scream because it feels spooky outside. No. It's getting 60 degree weather. My favorite kind of weather. My favorite kind of season.
Brace yourselves, because I will be explaining in tragic, gruesome detail how a real-life, beautiful, innocent 16-year-old girl named Cassie Jo Stoddart was ruthlessly murdered by two teenage classmates who claimed to have been inspired by the absolutely brutal acts of violence that were portrayed in Scream. And this murder was obviously dubbed the Scream killing. Never heard of it. All right, well, let me take you through it. Okay. Let's start at the beginning.
Cassie Jo Stoddart was born on December 21st, 1989 in the largely Mormon area of Pocatello, Idaho. She was mostly raised by her grandparents in a loving household alongside her two siblings, Christy, who was six years older, and Andrew, who was 18 months younger. Among family and friends, Cassie was known for being a conscientious, kind, and artistic girl who would spend hours in her bedroom as a kid drawing, acting, and listening to music.
By the time she was in high school, she had proven to be an intelligent, top-performing student who was also kind and compassionate and would often welcome everyone into her circle of friends, including those who may have otherwise been socially ostracized by their peers.
Cassie was a bit shy, but maintained a trusting disposition and a genuine openness to accepting all people. She had a boyfriend of five months named Matt Beckham and was well-rounded, well-liked, and by all accounts, happy and thriving. And Mormon, so we know she was super nice. Well, she wasn't Mormon. She just lived in a Mormon area. Okay. But anyway...
On her MySpace profile, Cassie had her entire page listing likes. She was just an optimistic young girl. They included penguins, turtles, Hershey bars, skittles, snow, snakes, summertime, and warm blankets right out of the dryer. Those are some good likes. Yeah. Her only dislikes were judgmental people and drama queens. And I think...
And I love that. It was a great too. I feel like my page would be the complete opposite. Like I would have an entire page of dislikes and maybe two likes. No, I think your likes would be terrifying. And then your dislikes would be like rainbows and. Oh yeah. Yeah. It would be like the opposite. I like that. I like Jeffrey Dahmer. No. What am I? Jasmine Richardson. Remember her? Family Annihilator. Yeah. Her MySpace page. Oh, that was her MySpace page. Yes. Yes.
Cassie was truly excelling in life and eagerly anticipating her future college education with aspirations of becoming an attorney one day. Before embarking on her promising future, though, Cassie aimed to achieve a specific goal in the present, and that was buying a car.
To achieve this, she needed to earn money. In preparation for her junior year of high school and hopefully buying a car, Cassie took on various babysitting jobs during the summer to start saving, although she still required a substantial amount of money to realize her dream of car ownership. When her aunt and uncle, Allison and Frank Contreras, offered her a house-sitting job in September while they went away for the weekend, Cassie eagerly accepted.
her duties were to encompass staying at the house during the weekend while her family went away and also caring for their three cats and two dogs as well, a responsibility that she took quite seriously. Before her aunt and uncle left for their away weekend in September, Cassie got their permission to have her boyfriend Matt over to watch a movie that evening. Given Cassie's reputation for abstaining from alcohol, abstaining from drugs, and just never getting into trouble,
They promptly granted her request to have her boyfriend over. A little company at the house. Yeah. And at 5.30 p.m. on Friday, September 22nd, 2006, Cassie's mother, Anna, dropped Cassie and Matt off at the large, empty, secluded house privately nestled in the Whispering Cliffs neighborhood. Anna watched as Cassie unlocked the front door of the house and stepped inside before pulling her white Jeep Cherokee out of the driveway and heading home.
Little did Anna know that would be the last time she'd see her daughter alive. Cassie and Matt initially planned to lay low that night and to pop in a movie, but Matt decided last minute to invite two friends over from their school, 16-year-old Tori Adamczyk and 16-year-old Brian Draper. Boy and a girl? Two boys. Okay. Both in 10th grade. Regardless of their age,
Regrettably, this single decision would prove to be the catalyst for a devastating tragedy, and unbeknownst to anyone, Tori and Brian turned out to be savage killers who were out for blood that night.
And their cruel and intentionally vicious behavior led to one of the most heart-wrenching and infuriating events that I have ever encountered. Really? Yes. You? Me. Who does this for a living now? Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's something... She's still working for free. Go over to patreon.com. PsychopediaPod to help her quit her job. Help me do this really for a living.
But before delving into the grave details that await us, let's first acquaint ourselves with the individuals at the center of this tale, Dumb and Dumber, Tori and Brian.
Because to better understand how they wound up doing what they did, and at such a young age, we should know a little bit about who they were and where they came from. Yeah. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.
My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.
Born on March 21, 1990, and adopted by his parents, Pam and Carrie Draper, Brian Lee Draper's upbringing mostly unfolded amidst the desert landscape of Utah before his family relocated to an affluent area in the southern foothills of Pocatello, Idaho.
Brian, with his tall and lean stature, thin black hair, and tendency to fidget, was a bit of an awkward kid and teen. He also spoke with a prominent stutter, which was a challenge that constantly placed him on the receiving end of public ridicule and teasing from his classmates. Brian experienced a persistent sense of alienation throughout his young life, which resulted in him having a somewhat limited circle of friends and a dislike for mainstream society, which is not a great combo. Yeah.
No. Although the hurdles of having a stutter and not many friends do not provide a complete explanation for the heinous crime he would later perpetrate, it does provide a glimpse into the potential origins of some of his negative and aggressive emotions. Yeah, I mean, it must have been in him already. Yes. To begin with, and the stutter and people making fun of it, because there's plenty of people that stutter that don't kill people. Yeah, we're actually going to circle back to this idea of it already being inside of him. Always? Always.
Shutting me down. No, let's roll with it. I'm kidding.
I don't ever mean to shut you down. I love when you... I'm actually going to circle back if you would shut up. That's not at all what I imply. I hope you don't take that from me. I anticipated your response if you will just let me finish. Maybe I really should keep a leash on you. I could just give it a little tug when you're starting. Yeah, or like a taser or something. A taser. Put a fucking electric shock collar on me. Cattle prod. Yeah, you just hear me twitching over here. No, I want you to roll with it. When you have a thought, bring it. No.
No, but I like that we're going to circle back. So let's round out and circle back. Upon relocating to Pocatello, Brian also found himself nursing feelings for Cassie that she did not return, further exacerbating his sense of rejection and isolation. So he's a fucking incel piece of shit. I knew you were going to take it there. Yeah. Um, I don't know if I would go so far as to call him an incel, honestly, but here are the rest of the case, but it's possible. I'll just put this out there right now. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Yo,
Young men. I'm a middle-aged man. You are. You don't have to be ashamed to own it. 43. I remember being young. I remember liking girls. I remember them not liking me. Not once did I ever feel like anybody owed me their vagina. Yeah.
Yes. Period. Preach. No, seriously. I'm serious. Listen, either they're attracted to you or they're not. And even if you're a handsome guy, if you're weird, they're not going to like that. So be less weird. Stop hating women. Maybe they don't like you because you hate women. Maybe they don't like you because that's their choice. Yeah, exactly. You don't like everybody. Right. You decided to like them. I mean, you didn't even decide to like them. You just saw their face and you were like, I like that face. Right. I want to kiss that face. Right.
You didn't make a choice and they didn't choose not to like you. So it's not personal. Just move on. And even if it is personal, just move on. Yeah, either way. Either way. So this unreciprocated crush that Brian had on Cassie, coupled with his limited social circle and his history of being bullied, cultivated in Brian a growing resentment towards his peers. So he just moved there. He's got a stuttering problem. He likes a girl. She doesn't like him. And he's awkward. Doesn't have a lot of friends. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah, welcome to being a teenager, dude. I mean, it just described me at 15. No joke. Yeah, being a teenager isn't the best. It's very hard. Being a kid in general is very hard. Yeah, it's not easy. Do you know that yesterday my little guy asked me for dinner? Uh-huh. And in total fairness, I lost track of the time because why? I was listening to a psychopedia episode. Narcissism. No, no, no. I like to like take notes on how I think I perceive.
I personally did and then reflect and do better in the next case. So I'm like, oh my goodness, of course. So I started making him dinner and I thought to myself, like he has to ask me for dinner. Yeah. If I don't provide it, he doesn't eat. Yeah. That like,
Like being a kid is tough. And that's maybe even a lame example because that's not even like emotional. And he knows he's going to get dinner from me. But it just occurred to me sort of how helpless children are. Well, if our listeners would bear with us for a second, I didn't realize I was a dad until my son was like two. Oh, I actually understand that sentiment. Because we were, I was taking him to my parents' house. They would watch him on Saturdays.
And he was walking, but like not great at it, you know? So he stepped down the stoop. He was trying to step down the stoop and then he sat down accidentally and the stoop was wet because it was raining. I was in a rush. So I was just like, I have pants for him. I'll just put him in there. I'll just like, I'll get him there and then I'll change him or they'll change him or whatever. And then as I'm putting him in his car seat, he's going wet, wet.
Wet. Wet. And I was like, if I don't do it, nobody's going to do it. Right. I wouldn't want to sit there in wet pants. That's the thing that parents don't always do. But of course, I'm not surprised that you did it because you're very empathetic and you're a great dad. Yeah.
The way you would feel is how your child feels or your child feels the way you would feel. So if you're in a restaurant and you're putting on a jacket because it's cold and your kid is in a tank top and shorts, give the kid a jacket. If you're cold and you need a sweatshirt, so does your child. If you're cold, they're cold. Bring them in. Right. Okay.
This resentment that Brian was starting to feel deepened when Cassie began dating Matt Beckham. He was also adopted? He was, yes, he was. That's part of the puzzle as well. It could be. I don't know. I mean, I know only what I've read. I don't know from personal experience. So sometimes I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on when talking about adoption. But my understanding is it is a very complex decision.
journey. It can be. Even in the best case scenario, it's got to be complex. With a loving adoptive family, you still got to feel a little bit like what went wrong with my birth mother, even if it's under the surface. Right, right. So, all right, we're piecing it together. So Brian feels like he's left in the dust. He doesn't have a lot of friends. He doesn't have the girl he wants, etc. Until, that is, he met a fellow 10th grade boy at Pocatello High named Tori Adamczyk,
Brian and Tori quickly forged a strong bond, finding common ground as societal outcasts and discovering shared interests that cemented their friendship. Tori, like Brian, loved collecting and making movies. Whether the genre was comedy, action, horror, suspense, it didn't matter. Tori voraciously immersed himself in the world of cinema and had done so, crucially, free from any parental oversight or constraints.
His cinematic indulgences often exposed him to scenes of extreme violence, profanity, and vulgarity, with his favorites being Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween.
And while those two examples are definitely scary movies, to be sure, they don't have much profanity is my understanding. They just have a lot of blood and guts and people who somehow always manage to run directly towards their deaths. Yeah, they're gory and they're suspenseful. Yes. By the way, you want to hear something really interesting? Obviously. Alfred Hitchcock...
said the difference between danger and suspense is danger is when somebody knows they're in danger. Suspense is when the person is in danger and everyone around them knows it. So everyone around them would be the audience. So that's how he built suspense by creating a situation which the audience knew the person was in danger, but they didn't. Interesting. Yeah. I may have fucking totally botched that quote, but it's something like that. If you botched it, we'll hear about it. Yeah, I'm sure.
According to Torrey, it was his newfound pal, Brian, who had a penchant for disturbing horror movies that weren't readily available in typical stores. Brian would take Torrey to a local shopping center called Fred Meyers and purchase $400 worth of horror movies in one shot. Where'd this kid get the money from? He was from a pretty decent affluent family. Although there, I read a few accounts that said his parents were actually in severe debt and
but perhaps it's because he's... Because of his movie habit. Exactly, because they're letting their kid spend $400 in one shopping spree at a film shop. Yeah. And in addition to Tori and Brian's shared love for watching these types of movies, both boys also had a deep fascination with something else. Pop quiz.
Numero uno. In addition to their shared fascination with horror films, what else captivated the two boys? A, Grand Theft Auto on Xbox. B, Nazis and Fascism. Okay. C, The Columbine High School Massacre. C. Yeah. Yeah.
They had an obsession with the heartbreaking tragedy of the Columbine school shooting, as well as an admiration for the abominable teenage perpetrators, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Yeah. They were in awe of these two killers being societal underdogs, much in the same way that Brian in particular could relate to, and then taking control, seeking retribution, and attaining infamy. Fascination is one thing. Admiration is a totally different animal. Mm-hmm.
wonderfully put. Are we going to circle back to that? No, we're going to hit it right now. Okay, good. Hammer. No, I'm giving you the floor. I just hammered it in. Oh, well then I'm going to move on. One shot. I'm a good carpenter. You're like Jesus. Jesus with crystals. Yes. Relax your genitals.
Combining their passion for horror movies and their obsession with a vile, notorious pair of teenage spree killers, a sinister plan began to take shape. Their intention was to craft their very own dark and brutal screenplay inspired by the film Scream.
And step one towards accomplishing this sick objective was to compile a death list of real-life victims to cast in this nightmarish film, with Cassie Jo Stoddard tragically occupying the top spot on this horrific list.
So let's take a moment to delve into a broader theme in this case, revolving around the connection between violent films and violent actions, particularly in terms of causation. This is already one of my favorite cases we've ever had. Oh, yes.
Yes. Obviously, nothing gets me going than hearing that you're into it. Yeah. Research suggests that while exposure to violent imagery in the media is certainly considered a risk factor, it does not inevitably cause violence. Drawing a parallel, right? We can assert that smoking cigarettes, for example...
will always have negative effects for the most part. But we can't say that it will 100% lead to lung cancer in the same way that we can't assert that watching violent movies will always 100% lead to engaging in violent behavior. Sure. We can for sure say in both of these examples that a strong connection exists. In a Psychiatric Times interview, psychologist Craig Anderson, director of the Center for the Study of Violence at Iowa State, stressed the following.
Oh, that's good to know. Yeah. End quote. Yeah.
In other words, simply watching violent movies as a solitary factor is not enough to drive an individual to commit acts of violence in the absence of other influencing factors. But it's a piece of the puzzle. A hundred percent. And that's it. Yeah. To discount it completely is irresponsible and obviously not what you're doing. That's my point is that there seem to be in my research, particularly of this case, obviously, two schools of thought.
One is that the Columbine shooters, for example, or the main players in today's case, did what they did because they watched a lot of horror films or they played a lot of video games. And then there's the other side of the spectrum where people are like, that had nothing to do with it. You know, I watched horror movies growing up as a kid and I didn't turn out that way. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Well, yeah. I mean, you have to consider whether or not these kids were born 20 years earlier. Would they have killed somebody? And
Anyway, if Scream had not come out yet. Right. The chances are not 100%, but they're better than the average person. Correct.
But watching the horror films and being immersed in the vulgarity of it all and really connecting with it. Connecting, yeah. Speaks more about their psychological nature than it does about the impact of media. So maybe it's not a cause. Maybe it's an impetus, meaning they see it and then they relate to it or identify with it and go, I want to do that. I never watched Scream and went, I want to do that. Right. It scared me like a normal person. Right, right. I guess my point is, my takeaway is,
because I feel like I just got very passionate, my takeaway is that a horror movie is unlikely to cause somebody to kill, but it is certainly a risk factor. The same way a cigarette is not always going to cause lung cancer, but there's a likelihood that it will contribute towards the possibility. Your chances are better not smoking. Right.
At this juncture of the case, Brian Draper and Tori Adamczyk were poised to make their debut in the cinematic world, not only as fledgling filmmakers, but also as individuals on the brink of committing heinous acts of violence.
Pop quiz. What was the first step that Brian and Tori took in their preparations for creating their Scream-inspired movie? A, they watched Scream on repeat for 14 hours straight and pissed in a soda bottle to avoid taking bathroom breaks. God. B, they studied the human body to learn where major veins, arteries, and organs are located. C, they purchased deadly weapons at a local pawn shop. B.
No. Okay, is what I was going to say is not it. Uh-huh, that's usually how you do this. See? Yes. They will purchase weapons. Yes. Wait, were they going to make a movie? Yes. They were going to film it? Yes, they wanted to make their own screenplay inspired by the movie Scream. They had a death list of victims that they intended to take out for the purpose of executing this film. And film it? Yes. Okay.
That's fucked up. Yeah. By the way, I've said on this podcast, the house on Haunted Hill is the scariest thing I've ever seen. I just remembered the real scariest thing I've ever seen was my friend Chris showed me a Nine Inch Nails movie that was a snuff film. Oh. Have you ever heard of that? No, but 8mm, the movie with Nicolas Cage, I think, about snuff films. Yeah, yeah.
Probably the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life. So the Nine Inch Nails movie was not a snuff film, but this was in like 1993 before we had a, and we were 13. Like we didn't have the option of Googling it and finding out whether or not it was real. Turns out it wasn't real, but we didn't find that out till like 10 years later. I mean, it, I mean, it ruined like a week of my life. Yeah. And you're still here to talk about it. Like it's still in your psyche. I still remember it. Once I found out that it wasn't real, it eased up the pain immensely, but
But here's where the trauma comes in. Those films are real. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's what's so traumatic about it. That one, thank God, wasn't real. But you know, in your mind that that actually happens. Yeah. It's petrifying. Also, for those of you who heard that, Cass just said hello. Oh, his way of saying hello. Did I kiss him into the microphone? Possibly. Okay. Yeah. He deserves love.
At the end of August 2006, Torrey had his 18-year-old friend, Joe Lacero, purchase several knives on his behalf from a pawn shop. Brian withdrew $40 from his bank account to finance this endeavor, while Torrey kicked in an extra five. Joe Lacero purchased a total of four knives for his underage pals, never asking or being told what the knives were going to be used for. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Oh my God, I'm so proud of you.
Yeah. Do you remember who was charged with that? The guy with the veiny bulbous nose. Larry Singleton. Larry Singleton. Well done, Tank. I am so proud. That disgusting monster.
Brian and Tori, after purchasing the knives or having their friend purchase the knives on their behalf, then began videotaping snippets of themselves talking about killing. Okay. And now I'm going to lay out for you the timeline of their recordings because they made like a series of video snippets.
and a summary of what was said during those recordings. Is this when Dave freaked out? Yes, it is. I'm going to be paraphrasing mostly. I'll give you some direct lines. But when I read it to Dave, I was taking it directly from the transcript. And I get very passionate in case you haven't noticed. So I think I was also maybe like,
acting it out a little bit. Like I was... You went a little too hard. I went too hard and it scared him. Yeah. Sorry, boo. Okay. On Thursday, September 21st, 2006 at 8.05 PM, Brian and Tori were in the car with Tori driving and Brian filming from the passenger seat discussing how they were going to play out a real life version of Scream the following night. During that car ride, they were laughing, they were giddy, hyped up, and...
and ready. They were metaphorically foaming at the mouth and saying things like, we're going to make history. Through a confident, cocky grin, Tori said, for all you FBI agents watching this, you weren't quick enough. Then the camera captured the two boys engaging in some 16-year-old esoteric bullshit banter about God and vampires and werewolves.
before going on to discuss how killing was only wrong because it was against the law and that victims of murder essentially had it coming as it's part of natural selection, a concept they clearly did not fully grasp. Not at all.
About 20 minutes later, so at 8.36 p.m., the night before Cassie's murder, as a reminder, these predators turn the camera back on to resume their conversation. You can only see Tori since Brian was filming, but it's clear that their demeanors matched.
Tori's eyes were wide open and hungry. And I saw the footage. You can see it as well. Both boys were laughing with an eerie enthusiasm akin to ravenous hyenas embarking on a hunt in the wilderness while hunting for prey. Creepy.
Brian proceeded to describe how ideal Cassie was as a victim, emphasizing the fact that she would be home alone in a large, dark house located in a remote, isolated area because they knew that she was going to be house-sitting for her aunt and uncle. What? I mean, she just told them innocently or told somebody and they found out? Her boyfriend, Matt, was friends with them. Brian asked Tori...
How perfect can you get? I mean, like, holy shit, dude. And Tori replied by saying, I'm horny just thinking about it.
Then, Brian went on to explore the possibility that Cassie may have friends over while she was house-sitting and when they intended to kill her, which would then necessitate the need to kill each individual one by one. Tori then replied by saying, why one by one? Why can't it be a slaughterhouse? And they're like laughing about this. It is chilling. These kids are deranged. Here's the thing, though.
In their conspicuous attempt to portray themselves as iconic cinematic villains, they in reality come across as nothing more than cackling, dim-witted assholes. Yeah. At one point during the rant, Tori endeavored to liken himself and Brian to infamous prolific serial killers like Ted Bundy. However, he fumbles when he tries to recall Ed Gein's last name during his tirade, which just fumbles.
further underscores their immaturity, their lack of sophistication, and their overall pathetic demeanor. Cackling dim-witted assholes is a, I mean... That might have to be a Patreon tier. $500 a month for you cackling dim-witted assholes.
These boys, though, they seem to harbor grandiose delusions, but one might ponder whether this behavior was all part of an act, like a performance for the camera, as they continued to present themselves in a manner that they believed aligned with the image of a ruthless killer exuding confidence and control.
You feel? Yeah, I think they were just being themselves. I don't think there was much acting going on. I think you're right, but there is this element, at least for me, when I was... Maybe they turned it up a little bit for the camera. When I was watching it, I was like, oh, you guys are acting in your own film right now. That's what you're doing. But not. But not because they end up going through with it. It's probably just a nervous, elevated version of who they are because when the camera gets on, a lot of people get nervous. So they were probably just like hamming it up a little bit, but that was really in them for sure. Right, right.
So Brian and Tori continued conversing for several more minutes on this particular video snippet, demonstrating unwavering excitement and a disturbing sense of satisfaction in their own depravity. Disturbering. Did I say that? Yeah. Oh, man. Write it down. Add it to the list.
They openly labeled themselves as twisted psychopaths who were deriving pleasure from taking the lives of others. They acknowledged this and they were proud of it. Again, projecting for the camera the persona that they hoped to portray and that they desperately want their imaginary audience to see. Brian concluded that particular horrific video segment by issuing the following less than effective, in my opinion, closing statement.
Murder is power. Murder is freedom. Oh, so deep. Goodbye. So deep. Fuck off. 16-year-old. Right? Cackling, dim-witted asshole. Oh, yeah, that hit you. I like it. Maybe a t-shirt. Relax your genitals, Brian.
The next day, on September 22nd, 2006, at 8.28 a.m., so the morning of the heartbreaking event that happens later that evening, the boys brought their video camera to school with them and recorded Brian discreetly fucking with Cassie as he walked past her at her locker. As he passed her in the hall, he told Cassie to say hi to the camera and
And she does, which like breaks my heart. That little, little, hi, she gives to the camera makes me want to fucking kill myself. An unwitting, unknowing participant in the pre-show to her own impending demise. I'm having a breakdown. No, it's okay. Take a deep breath.
Great movie.
The boys arrived at the house at around 6.30, 7 p.m., at which point Cassie, the ever-polite hostess, provided them with a tour of the house, which included a visit to the basement.
Then Cassie, Matt, Brian and Tori settled down in the living room to watch the movie. However, shortly into the movie, Brian and Tori announced that they were leaving the house to go watch a different film at an actual movie theater instead. They also said something like, hey, we thought this was going to be a party. Like, we're not interested in just hanging out with like a couple watching a movie. We're out of here. So they got up and saw themselves out while Cassie and Matt stayed behind.
Pop quiz. What did the boys do prior to leaving the house? A, plant weapons. B, unlock one of the doors. C, set up a video camera. This is a good pop quiz. Thank you. I wish there was a D, all of the above. No, I don't think you're going to fall for those anymore. No, I would have said it this time. Oh, well, right, okay. Damn it. Planted weapons all over the house, leave a door unlocked, or set up a video camera. Okay.
Um, they left the door unlocked. Very good. Yeah. Good job. Because they could bring weapons in with them and they can set up the video camera while they're doing the, you know, the killing. Which, by the way, they actually did not end up filming the actual event. But we'll get to that.
unbeknownst to Cassie, before Brian and Tori left the house, Brian had secretly unlocked the basement door to allow him and Tori to reenter later that night without detection. Very premeditated. Yeah. After the boys left the house, they went back to their car to film another video segment at 9.53 p.m. In this video, Brian can be heard saying the following, "'We're here in his car. "'The time is 9.50, September 22nd, 2006.'
Um, unfortunately we have the grueling task of killing our two friends and they are in right, right in that house, just down the street. We checked out the whole house. We know there's lots of doors. There's, there's lots of places to hide. Um, I unlocked the back doors. It's all unlocked. Now we just have to wait. And, um, yep, we're just, we're just really nervous right now, but you know, we're ready. We've waited for this a long time. Stay tuned.
I was going to say, obviously you were reading it word for word. I was. If that was annoying, I apologize. No, you're much more eloquent than that. I know that for a fact. So now it's getting real for them. Now it's not fun anymore. Now it's like, oh my God, are we about to actually do this? Good point, Tank. They're addressing their nerves instead of all cockiness. Yeah. Right?
Then, Brian and Tori discreetly went back to the house wearing dark outfits, gloves, and white painted masks with red streaks of paint running down the front. I'm assuming her boyfriend is gone at this point? We're going to find out in four seconds. Okay. One. They crept back into the house through the door in the basement that Brian had previously unlocked and began to psychologically taunt Cassie and Matt as they watched TV upstairs. Wow.
Brian and Tori made loud noises from the basement in an effort to scare the couple and ideally to coax them downstairs where they planned to execute the attack on both Cassie and Matt. Yeah. But this version of the plan was not working as neither Cassie nor Matt made any attempt to investigate the sounds coming from the basement. Yeah, they were probably too scared. Yeah, fuck that. Would you? I'd never. I would run out of the house before I'd go investigate what's going on. Yeah. Yeah.
So in a move reminiscent of nearly every horror movie ever, Brian and Tori severed the electricity, plunging their intended victims into complete eerie darkness. But when Cassie and Matt failed to make their way downstairs yet again, the boys decided to turn on some of the lights. So by this point, Cassie had begun to grow increasingly uneasy following the brief power outage, hearing some noises. Of course.
And Matt even noticed that one of the dogs in the house remained fixated on the basement stairs, intermittently barking or growling. Good dog. Seeing that Cassie was understandably freaked out, Matt called his mother to ask if he could stay over that night to keep her company. What? His mother, though, wouldn't allow him to spend the night. But she extended an offer for Cassie to come back home with Matt to spend the night at their house instead. What?
Despite the kind offer, Cassie declined as she believed it was her duty to remain at the house where she was hired to house it. And she didn't want to leave the animals because she was in charge of their care. So at 10.30 p.m., Matt's mother came by the house and picked up Matt while leaving Cassie behind. Brian and Tori could hear Matt leave and knew that they now just had one target to annihilate.
They once again cut the electricity, the lights went fully out, and waited, anticipating that Cassie would eventually have to come into the basement to check the circuit breaker. But she didn't. So finally, it was then that the boys decided to bring the violence to her.
First, they escalated their psychological torment by continuing to toy with Cassie. Brian opened and slammed shut a closet door at the top of the stairs to scare Cassie, who was lying on the couch in the living room, no doubt by this point, petrified by the loud noises not too far away from where she was, in the otherwise silent, desolate, pitch black house. Yeah, she was in freeze mode. A hundred percent. I would be.
Suddenly, the boys, wearing nightmarish masks on their faces, appeared before Cassie wielding weapons of death in their monstrous hands. Brian had been armed with a dagger-type weapon while Tori wielded a hunting-style knife. Then...
Brian and Tori viciously stabbed Cassie over and over and over again until she collapsed on her aunt's living room floor and lied dead in a pool of her own crimson blood. Terrible. Cassie's autopsy revealed that she had been stabbed approximately 30 times with 12 of those wounds considered potentially fatal.
A second examination of her body concluded that two different knives had been used during the attack. One knife with a serrated blade had inflicted 11 of the 12 potentially fatal wounds, while a second single-bladed and non-serrated knife inflicted one potentially fatal wound as well as other non-fatal wounds. You're saying potentially fatal because they don't know which of the 12 killed her. Correct. Okay. 30 times.
Following this absolutely horrific crime at precisely 11.31 p.m., Brian and Tori returned to their car to flee the scene and film another segment of their movie. They didn't film the actual murder. Again, Tori is seen driving while Brian records from the passenger seat. And you can hear Brian say in an absolutely hyped up, adrenaline-fueled high,
Just killed Cassie. We just left her house. This is not a fucking joke. And Tori says all excitedly, I'm shaking. Yeah. Ryan goes on to explain how he stabbed Cassie in the throat and then saw her lifeless body. They talked for another few seconds about how it didn't even feel real, how it had gone by so fast, but now they had to get their act straight. That's what Tori said.
The day after Cassie's murder, Matt, her boyfriend, hung out with Tori, okay, one of the fucking murderers, and was trying to reach Cassie all day. But of course, his constant calls had gone unanswered.
It wasn't until two days after Cassie's tragic murder on September 24th when her body would finally be discovered by her 13-year-old cousin after the family returned back to the house following their vacation. They hysterically called the police who immediately began their investigation. And let me tell you, that 911 call is hectic.
Yeah, I'm sure. Off the bat, police determined that Cassie must have known her attacker or attackers as there hadn't been any signs of forced entry, meaning she either likely let the person or people in or they were already in the house.
Case agent Andy Thomas and Idaho State Police Detective John Ganske quickly regarded Matt Beckham as a person of interest, as they would. Yeah, of course. During his interrogation, they noticed that Matt's affect seemed off, a bit aloof, and that he wasn't showing any emotion or signs of shock or devastation.
And this is why it's not always a great idea to gauge someone's guilt or innocence based on their immediate reaction to terrible news. Yeah. Everyone reacts differently. There is not one uniform way in which someone is supposed to behave when they are delivered the worst news of their life. Yeah. I mean, by far. I have a relative, and I won't say who, who cracks up...
at funerals, like uncontrollably, he's in the medical industry. And when somebody flatlines, he says he's laughing while resuscitating them. He cannot help it. Nerves. Nerves. Yeah. So you can't judge somebody's reaction or non-reaction.
And say whether or not they're guilty or not. That is pretty fucked up, though. It's really fucked up. I mean, I fuck with this person all the time about it. All the time. That would be a great sketch. Just a doctor who has this nervous tick of a laughter and every time somebody flatlines, they go... It's so inappropriate. Yeah. I mean, I've laughed at inappropriate times. We all have. Everyone, listen. If you're listening to this and you're going to tell me you haven't laughed at inappropriate times...
You're not fam. You're not fam. Have you ever laughed? God forgive me for saying this. Have you ever laughed like after your child gets hurt, like falls? Oh yeah. Okay. So I'm not going to hell? No, you are. So am I though. Fuck. Can we hang out? Can we do a podcast from there? We're coming at you live from the gates of hell.
We got Satan with us today. I was going to say our guest today is Lucifer himself. Yeah, sometimes they wipe out. They are so fucking all over the place when they wipe out. When I know they're okay, it's funny. Last night we took out my youngest son for his birthday and we brought a friend of his. And for some reason, my older son likes to ask my younger son challenging questions, like math questions. Okay.
And he's like, do you know what 360,000 divided by 10 is? And this was like the eighth or ninth question in a row. And the kid, my son's friend was like totally silent. My son directs the question at him and he just screams out, I don't understand anything. I was like, yeah, dude. Relatable. Yeah. Like Michael Scott from The Office. That's tanked during these episode recordings. I understand nothing.
Anyway, Matt, who was originally a person of interest in the investigation, ended up taking and passing a polygraph test for whatever those are worth. And it didn't take long after for investigators to accurately redirect their attention to Brian Draper and Tori Adamczyk as...
after Matt mentioned that they had been present at the house the night of the murder. Of course, they're going to come up sooner than later. That same evening, after speaking with Matt, law enforcement reached out to Brian and Tori. Brian's initial interview was not documented as he had not yet been detained. But during that initial interview, Brian claimed that he and Tori watched the movie Pulse all night.
But when asked to explain the movie's plot, Brian was unable to provide a coherent explanation. What an idiot. Busted. Not a great look for a movie buff and self-proclaimed screenwriter who supposedly just watched the movie. Yeah. The next night, Brian was brought back to the police station and he was read his Miranda rights.
Brian changed his story and indicated that he and Tori had been out burglarizing cars on the night of Cassie's murder and that they had gone to the movie theater just to hide out rather than to actually watch the movie, which is why he couldn't recall the movie's plot. Yeah, that's one of those things where you tell what you think is a more acceptable truth to get them off you, and then obviously it's not true. Do you have experience doing that? I can't think of any specific examples, but I always recognize it when it happens. Like if one of my kids does it,
Yeah. No, I didn't do that. I did this. You actually didn't either. Which you wouldn't be as mad at me for. Right, exactly. Following that interview, a detective went to Brian's home and searched it with the consent of his parents and found which of the following items? Pop quiz. Here we go. A, a knife sheath. B, a handwritten script detailing the murder. C, a mutilated mouse. Ugh.
B. A handwritten script. No. Okay. Knife sheath? Yes. Okay.
they found a knife sheath. And Brian, of course, said, where'd that come from? Yeah. Right? Brian's third interview with the police occurred on Wednesday, September 27th. And at this interview, he finally admitted that he and Tori unlocked the basement door so that they could return later that night to scare Cassie and Matt. He also indicated that they wore masks, black clothing and gloves, and that they carried knives with them. You're getting so close, bro. So close. Yeah.
Then during the interview, Brian suddenly turned on Tori and stated that after Matt left the house that night, Tori had gone upstairs and stabbed Cassie. Brian claimed that he thought that it had all just been a joke, but only later realized that Cassie was actually really being stabbed.
Brian completely denied ever touching or stabbing Cassie and even agreed to show law enforcement where in Black Rock Canyon he and Tori had disposed of the items that were used in Cassie's murder.
Brian directed the detectives to the site where the evidence from the murder had been buried. And the evidence, which the boys had clearly attempted to burn, included knives, masks, a black Calvin Klein dress shirt, black Puma gloves, hydrogen peroxide, matchsticks, and, crucially, a videotape. Needless to say, at this point, Brian Draper was arrested as well.
as was Tori Adamczyk, and both were brought to Bannock County Jail. Good. Brian and Tori were each charged with one count of murder in the first degree and one count of conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree. Both boys essentially tried to ship the blame onto the other during their trials, and they had separate trials from each other, even though Brian had confessed to the murder, while Tori never did. Oh, he did? He eventually confessed to it. Tori never...
never did. He maintained his story that Brian was doing it and he thought it was a joke?
No, so the reverse is actually what happened. Okay. Brian... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. At Tori's trial, his attorney stuck to DNA evidence as their defense, as it related to Cassie and Brian, and the fact that none of the DNA evidence pointed to Tori. Cassie's DNA had been found on one shirt, one knife, and one glove, all of which were worn or used by Brian. Okay.
Four different male DNA samples were found beneath Cassie's right hand fingernails, one of which belonged to Brian and none of which belonged to Tori. And two different male DNA samples were found on her left hand, one of which belonged to Brian and neither of which belonged to Tori. What did the other one belong to? I'm guessing Matt. I'm guessing other people she had seen in the day. Yeah.
but crucially not Tori. Yeah. Another piece of evidence used by Tori's defense team was the videotape that was made directly following the murder. Yeah. You very, very clearly hear Brian enthusiastically say, I killed Cassie. But you never hear Tori actually confess to anything.
But it was evident from substantial evidence, maybe not that videotape, but other video footage featuring both individuals, that they were both equally accountable. As such, Brian was found guilty of all charges on April 17th, 2007, and Tori was found guilty of all charges on June 8th, 2007. Okay, good.
At Torrey's sentencing hearing following the verdict, neuropsychologist Dr. Mark Korgiat testified that Torrey was immature for his age and demonstrated a pattern of neurocognitive defects, such as less than age-appropriate things like judgment, impulse control, complex problem solving, etc. And if we remember correctly from the beginning of the episode, Cassie does not like judgment. Yes.
A different physician named Dr. Kenneth Lindsay also concluded that Torrey was immature for his age, had only fair insight, and somewhat disorganized thought processes, as well as suffered from depression and anxiety. The state presented evidence obtained from two computers from the Adamchick residence, evidence that was stored under Torrey's username,
And this damning evidence included disturbing images of child sex abuse and animal cruelty. Really? Yep. Wait, whose computer was that? Corey. Wow. The Adam chicks filed a petition for an appeal contending that the search warrant used to search their home did not authorize the collection of electronic devices. And therefore any evidence obtained from their computer should have been excluded, but their appeal was denied. Good.
Sorry. I mean, listen to the parents. I feel your pain. This must be horrendous to have your child turn out like this, but no dice on that one. We will shortly hear a little bit about his parents and the approach that they have taken in the wake of all of this and their attitude and what lens they view this whole thing through. It's interesting and infuriating. Hardcore denial. Hardcore denial. Yeah.
At the sentencing hearing for Brian Draper, the district judge highlighted findings of Alan Brantley, an FBI profiler, and Dr. Hasenbuehler, the psychologist appointed to evaluate Brian, noting that Brian was a severely disturbed individual and that he was an entirely different individual than portrayed by his family members and friends and should not be released into society.
Brian did not have a psychotic disorder, but rather evidence relating to personality disorders. He committed the crime for the desire to achieve fame in the same manner as the Columbine killers had and knew exactly what he was doing when he was doing it. Yeah, which is terrifying. Yes, it is. In conclusion, the judge determining the sentence for both Brian Draper and Tori Adamczyk issued the following final statement.
Based on all the evidence and all that I've read, I'm convinced that if you too or either one of you were released, that you would kill again. Yeah. I'm convinced of that beyond a reasonable doubt. As such, on August 21st, 2007, viewed in light of the gravity of the horrible offense and the need to protect society from the defendants...
Both 16-year-old Brian Lee Draper and 16-year-old Tori Michael Adamczyk were each sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus 30 years to life for the conspiracy behind their brutal slaying. They are currently serving their sentences at the Idaho State Correctional Institution. It's got to be that way. Yeah, but hear what I'm going to say next, and then I want to hear if you still believe it's got to be that way. Okay. Okay?
Tory filed a post-conviction petition alleging that his fixed life sentence violated the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which states, excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. This amendment prohibits the federal government from imposing unduly harsh penalties on criminal defendants,
And Torrey argued that sentencing a minor to life without parole violated his Eighth Amendment right. In a 2013 documentary that I watched while researching this case, it's called Lost for Life, which is about juveniles who are serving life in prison without parole. And it also interviews their families. Torrey is interviewed, as are his parents.
His parents constantly refer to him as a kind, kind boy who does not deserve to spend the rest of his life in prison, especially since they maintain that Brian is the one who actually committed the murder and that Tori never confessed and therefore never did it. To really believe that as a parent must be very tough. Yes, absolutely.
thinking that your child is going to die in prison, believing he's innocent. Because of something their friend did. Right. In this documentary, Tori went on to say that he was a different stupid kid at 16 years old than he is at this point in his life. And he feels like he's paying for someone else's mistakes. He was 21 when this documentary was filmed.
Tori's mother, Shannon, even wrote a book, which I read, although I don't recommend. It's called Guilty Innocent. And while she somewhat accepts her son's culpability in the events that took place, she does not believe he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. Again, particularly since she maintains that Brian was the actual murderer.
In the final chapter of her book, she writes, I refuse to believe that Tori could die in prison for his role in what happened to Cassie.
Meanwhile, in 2004, a 25-year-old woman named Nori Jones, and this is before Cassie's murder, was raped and stabbed to death 50 yards away from where then 15-year-old Tori was living. Years later, during Nori's trial in 2015, Tori Adamczyk's name was actually raised as a possible suspect.
Yeah, I mean, I can see both sides of the equation here. Like, yeah, he was 16. People do change. You're not at your best at 16. You can get caught up in the fantasy of it and then wind up doing something that, listen, some things do change your life. Some actions you take do define you for the rest of your life. Child molester, murderer, rapist.
Those are things that once you do them, they kind of become your entire identity. Yeah. And I agree. I think Tory is a vile piece of rotting shit who very, very much deserves to be punished to the nth degree. But there's no denying that it does prompt consideration of like the appropriateness of imposing personality
permanent, irrevocable, severe adult penalties on juveniles. So for children, a sentence of life without parole defies law and research confirming that youth are different from adults in brain development and arguably culpability.
and must be treated differently by our legal system. We have juvenile courts, presumably for this reason. I'm not saying, by the way, that I don't think he should serve life. I'm just presenting the other side of the coin. Well, there's two things. One, he could have been young and stupid. Two, as his brain develops, he could become even more maniacal and psychotic. Right. And I think that's what the judge...
came to in his sentence. Yeah. Right? He's like, you can never be released. You can never, ever be trusted. In line with this, pop quiz. Which countries sentenced juveniles to life in prison without the possibility of parole? A, the United States and Ecuador. B,
B, the United States and Israel. C, just the United States. Just the United States. Yeah. We're the most prison-happy country on the planet. We are. The United States stands alone as the only nation that sentences people to life without parole for crimes committed before the age of 18. Yeah. And listen, like, there was that... We talked on a long... Many episodes ago about a kid...
who was racing his car and hit a mother and child and killed them, they gave him life in prison, which I think if I'm not mistaken, like that's fucking, that's a lot. This is a different situation. Intention is everything. Case by case basis, not only intention, but like excited intention. Well, it is a case by case decision, which is great that you had that line of thought. So,
In 2012, following Tory's appeal based on what he claims was a violation of his Eighth Amendment right, the Supreme Court did in fact rule that a mandatory life sentence without parole cannot be imposed on individuals under 18 as it's unconstitutional unless the crime committed falls under the category of permanent incorrigibility, meaning the child perpetrator is deemed to be permanently incapable of change.
Meaning also that states have latitude to create their own procedures for sentencing youth and can do so and should do so on a case-by-case basis. Yeah. And listen, if 10 years from now, 5 years from now, 20 years from now, they do somehow get a parole hearing and the parole board thinks that they're rehabilitated, I would give them a second shot. Yeah. Yeah, 16 years old. Like, yes, you did something absolutely unforgivable.
However, that doesn't mean that you just can never change. The reason I'm coming from this angle is because I've seen people really change. Yeah, I know you're a big believer in rehabilitation. Rehabilitation, redemption, not without earning it and proving it, probably over-proving it. And oversight. Yes, I wouldn't say like the first parole hearing he gets, they should, unless, listen, parole boards are notoriously tough. Yes. Not like an easy interview that you're going through.
I'm sure they use a combination of history in jail, instincts, experience with dealing with people. And if three people or however many people are on the board agree that he seems to be a rehabilitated human being,
Then yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to be around him. Well, that's just it. Yeah. Somebody's going to be around him. Somebody's child is going to be around him. It's tough. It's just tough. I don't know. Brian also made an appeal and argued that the refusal to allow his parents to attend one out of his four pre-sentence interviews violated his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination.
But this was shot down and his appeal was denied. Yeah, they're trying to get off on technicalities, which is, this is not the place to do that. Exactly. Not the time or the place. Exactly. In 2010, Cassie's family filed a lawsuit against the school district for wrongful death and basically negligence. They contended that the boys exhibited unmistakable indicators of impending violence and
and cited instances from both 2004 and 2006 when school authorities were notified about the boys purportedly simulating shooting people during a school dance and having pictures of the Columbine killers displayed on their bedroom walls. Yeah, that's bizarre. However, the Idaho Supreme Court ruled that the school district was not liable for failing to prevent Cassie's murder despite warnings of a Columbine-like shooting.
The justices said that the murder, though tragic, was unforeseeable, absent the benefit of hindsight. Yes, agreed. The downstream effects of this outrageously tragic incident continue to ripple. Cassie's 13-year-old cousin who discovered her tried committing suicide a couple years following that. Her aunt fell into a very deep depression, lost her job, and her
and her aunt and uncle were desperate to sell their house and move on, but they couldn't sell it for years and years and years and years and years because nobody wanted to buy that house. In conclusion, beautiful Cassie Jo Stoddard's case serves as a poignant reminder of the profound consequences that can arise when impressionable young minds are influenced by a disturbing blend of violent media and personal demons. It
It forces us to confront the harrowing fact that even within the innocence of youth, darkness can take root and grow. Cassie's tragic story calls on us to be vigilant in nurturing a culture of compassion, empathy, and mental health awareness among our youth.
It urges us to examine the potential impact of media on impressionable minds, not as a scapegoat, but as a contributing factor to a complex issue. Ultimately, I just hope that Cassie's family can find some semblance of comfort in their memories of her and that she'll live on through them as they hopefully heal to the extent that that's possible. Yeah.
And that's the case. That was really good. That was a good ass episode. Thank you, Tank. Maybe it's the fall weather. I mean, we love the crisp air and we love the coffees that I bring to our recording sessions. Maybe it's this cold brew. Maybe it's cash. I don't know. But that was riveting.
Yeah, it's a devastating case, but very complex. Lots of larger issues, which I love. I love when we get into the weeds on these cases. Yeah. And I hope our listeners enjoyed it as well. Yeah, listen, if you did, make sure to let us know about it. Find us on Instagram at psychopediapod. Email us psychopediapod at gmail.com.
If it's a bad email, write Dear Investigator Slater. If it's a good one, write Dear Tank. Please do the reverse. Please. And make sure that you rate, review, and subscribe on either Apple or Spotify. I think it helps us reach more people. And that's what we want to do. We want more of you little freaks out there listening to us go over these cases. Yeah, we want you guys to just keep coming in in droves. Go forth and multiply. Yes.
You're such a freak. All right. Thank you for listening. We'll see you guys next episode. Bye, everyone.
