Working From...Someplace Else? 45:05

Welcome back, everybody. It's week 1003. You're listening to Caitlin and Adam and me on the Jan Arden podcast. God.

That's my favorite one yet. Definitely. That's the best one. Best one so far. Best intro. Oh my God. It sounded like the intro to like a TVO show, a TVO kids show back in the day. I like it. I don't know if you guys know this, but I'm a professional singer. I didn't know that. Really? I've got...

You know, I've got like 14 professionally done records out in the world. Listen, we're going to get right to it. Working from home, working from home. I know we've talked about it at Nauseam.

And before you hopped on to this Zoom call, Caitlin, Adam was like, I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back. Why don't you want to go back, Adam? So just to preface that by saying, I love you.

I love my job and I, I love my coworkers and I miss, miss them very much. And I miss going. This is just Adam not wanting to get fired. I was just going to say that. Yeah. And I, and I miss the building and being in downtown Toronto, all the action. I love that, but I love working from home. I totally, completely love it. I am comfortable. I'm wearing sweatpants every day.

I am, I have no stress because I can take my girls to school every morning and I don't have to worry about catching the train. I can make whatever I want for lunch. I don't have to think ahead or pack a bag or make whatever leftovers and okay, I'll eat this on Wednesday. I can have whatever I want and do whatever I want. And the work-life balance, I know cliche term, it is lovely. So I'm very happy working from home. I am good.

Tell us how you really feel, Adam. So Caitlin, I mean, I'm bored. I, you know, I was just going to, no, I was just going to say that. I know Caitlin from her morning show job. Caitlin and I have crossed paths many times.

And I also miss going into, excuse me, chum radio. Yeah. And going into the studio and having a really crappy coffee from your... Sorry, I don't know what's going on with my voice. Sounds like someone delivered you our crappy coffee right now. Yeah, they delivered me a crappy coffee. But I haven't really... I've only spoken to the birds this morning, ladies and gentlemen. I've only spoken to the birds. But I've seen you in your environment, Caitlin, and...

The excitement of being in the building, the bells and whistles, the technology, the microphones kind of being thrust in front of your face, people coming and going down the hallway, hearing bits and pieces of conversations. I really miss that. And I miss that for you. I think your job working from home is...

It's just lackluster. It's lackluster. It's not the exact same. And the thing that's funny is, you know, recently I had had a conversation with our boss about it. And, you know, and thankfully the great thing is our show sounds great from home. Like people, listeners frequently forget that we're broadcasting from home because it's seamless. Like thanks to technology and just the ease of conversation, how familiar and friendly we all are with each other.

it's good and everyone sounds great. So I'm happy that primarily number one, the overall quality of the show isn't suffering. And like the product we deliver to listeners is still good, but selfishly I do miss just being in and seeing everybody and the vibe of that building. Um,

and having people like you said walking through like having a random day where like a celebrity comes in or you know getting the sometimes we would have like you know food drop-offs happen and just that little part of the routine and I used to take an uber into work every morning and I would always I would try to start my day a little bit with a brief conversation with the uber driver and you hear a little bit about like their part of Toronto that they're from and and you can pick up those stories and use them on the air there's just something special about all that that you

I miss sitting alone at, you know, 6am at my dining room table. I'm thankful that we have the ability to do this from home and to do it remotely. Same with our podcast. It's great, but it's a bummer. Well, you're not the only person to feel that way. Obviously there there's a lot, there's a lot going on and people, and this is no big surprise. There, there are,

they're working from home, but they want to even change that environment. So a lot of people are looking for Airbnbs. For instance, 37% people want to work at a place near the ocean. So they want to, so it would be like Adam going, great, I'm going to grab the girls. I'm going to grab my wife and we're going to go

you know, sit by the Atlantic. We're going to get an Airbnb because since I'm working from home, I might as well do it from Prince Edward Island. And so, so 37% of people want that 18% of people, this is some kind of survey they did. They want to rent a place by a lake. So there's a real water theme and a survey also found the same survey that 54% are just looking for a change of scenery. Like Adam, I know you're in your basement. Yeah.

Yes. Do you have a window down there? Above me, there's a window. I'm not in a dark room. Above me, there's a window. So I do have a magical sunlight. So skylight. Well, it's not a skylight skylight, but like there's a window. I'm below it. Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, I know what you mean. It's one of those windows that if there's a fire, you can crawl out of there. I'm looking. Maybe. It'd be tight.

Okay, well, people are saying that this change of scenery is going to make them more creative. 19%, they just wanted to stay somewhere closer to their friends and family. So there's a lot of reasons that are vectoring into this. Working from home for me,

I don't even know how to explain that you guys. Obviously I can't tour or anything like that or go sing for people, but I have been doing lately corporate jobs that are all virtual. I go to my colleague, Russell Broom studio. We've worked together for like 20 years and we literally do four or five songs, you know, on online and,

And then I, like last week I did the four or five songs and then I did an interview that it was for this company. I'm not going to say who they were and, but they had like 10,000 people on this zoom call watching the concert and then watching the interview. And I was really nervous. Russ and I are the only people in the room, you know, we're filming. Well, they had a, they had a, they did have a cameraman there. So I'm fibbing a little bit and they were filming it.

And I was sweating. My heart rate started going crazy. I kept thinking about these people sitting there and watching this and singing properly. And do I know the words? I suddenly dawned on me. Like normally I work with teleprompter just because I want to make my life easy. I don't want to worry about not knowing the songs that I've been singing for 30 years, whatever. Um,

And then I started panicking like two years before we went live on the air, right? Because it's a Zoom call and or whatever the hell it was, V Mix or V this or film you or. So it's different for me working from home. I mean, I'm doing this from home right now. Yeah. But I have to say, holy crap, I was freaking out.

Yeah. It's so different for everybody. It's funny too, that you mentioned that I actually just bought tickets for the first time since lockdown, like quote unquote tickets to a virtual event. And it's a comedy show for like a comedian. I really love in LA and he does kind of like, he does songs and all this stuff. And so he's doing a show from the woods coming up. And yeah,

It's just going to be obviously him alone, no one live in the audience. And I thought, you know, like much like yourself for live performers who are used to feeding off of the immediacy of a crowd and cheers. Say the laughing, like how, how does he gauge if his jokes are landing or not?

It's going to be weird. I figured, give it a try. And I feel for everybody who's obviously. Can I ask how much the ticket is? So one ticket was $11 and 50 cents. God. Yeah. That's, that's the price of the coffee.

Exactly. Like, you know, with tax 15 bucks, whatever. And I have a bunch of friends who really like it and I don't think they even knew about it. So I sent them all the link and I said, we can see his show. It's only going to be this much money and they all got tickets. So now we're all going to watch it simultaneously so we can kind of like watch it together, which is kind of cool. And it's just something to do. And plus it's like 8 PM on a Wednesday night. That's the thing I think that might be cool about these virtual events. If people enjoy them and they're done well enough, they're,

you just sit on your sofa on a work night. You don't have to go out. You don't have to do dinner or find a babysitter or whatever you'd have to normally do. And if artists can find a way to monetize that and do it well, it could be great.

Oh, for sure. I mean, I'm seeing a lot of musical artists now doing these concerts from home. I know that Shelby Lynn has done like a series of four that she calls the Chronicles and, um, she, she sells these tickets and, um, I, I know I'm not sure what the price point is. I think it's like, um,

20 bucks or something, $19. But I've also seen things out there online with some artists that are upwards of 35, 45, $55. To me, there's a little bit of a discomfort level there, but I also realize that people do need to monetize their work. Now, a lot of artists haven't worked for eight months. Yeah. You know, my last gig that I did was in the Bahamas. Um,

March the 5th and I did a corporate job there for about 3,000 people and then flew home and then was in lockdown what two weeks later middle of middle of March was that Atlantis yes I was down in Atlantis Adam you might remember that I don't know if we did a podcast from there

I think I don't think I did. But yeah, it was Atlantis. And it was those few days before everything seems so normal. I remember sitting in the sun and reading my book.

And having my fruity drink, sitting there going, oh God, this is going to be so nice before I actually kind of go back to start my work year. And like big artists now too are going to be doing pay-per-view. So the same way you would tune into pay-per-view fights, like UFC fights or boxing matches,

Taylor Swift, I believe was one rumored confirmed Billie Eilish. And what they're going to do are these big pay-per-view shows. And I think that means that it's going to obviously be more expensive per ticket, but you would assume or hope that much like some of the award shows we've seen recently, there's going to be big production value. So that could be an option for people to look. I think why mine was so cheap is he's just like a little indie comedian and he's doing this show set up in the middle of the woods. So I don't think the production costs for him are that expensive. Yeah.

No, I think you're right. I think we will see the level of spending certainly up their stages, their lighting. Especially, you have the capability of having a pretty good viewership with pay-per-view. I know those boxing fights have long been multi, multi, multi-million dollar makers. Anyway, you're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. We'll be right back. Don't go away. You don't have to worry, worry, worry.

Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. I'm with Caitlin Green, Adam Karsh. We're talking about working from home, which people have talked about ad nauseum, but we are talking about going into winter and they're talking about, it's going to be difficult again. There's, there's, there's a rumor of more types of restrictions on movements, obviously, um,

being inside with a lot of people and not having access to the great outdoors, unless you want to be in your snowsuit and, you know, tobogganing.

But thoughts on that, guys? I think that we're going to have to see, hopefully, I'm crossing my fingers as I say this, some advances when it comes to rapid test results. Because really, that's the key to getting people back outside in the world a little bit more and making it so that people can travel if they want to. And if you have a case pop up at, say, a classroom, kids all get tested faster. They can go back to school faster. Same thing with an office project.

place, all that stuff I think is contingent upon rapid testing. And, you know, in a previous episode, Jan, we talked about your friend from the UK, Nigel, who recently flew to Bermuda. Yes. And how the testing that they did. So like you test, get a test before you go, you get a test when you arrive and then you get a test four days later. Yeah. And all that means that the number of

on the island of Bermuda. Very, very low. Super safe. And it means you can go there and kind of like breathe a sigh of relief. My friend recently traveled to South Korea to visit family. Stayed there for quite a while. And South Korea has this figured out. And again, it's all thanks to testing. It's so that they, you know, it's like...

There's a little bit of monitoring that goes on more so in South Korea when it comes to like downloading an app for your cell phone so people watch where you're going. But yeah, I think that means that it's been safe there. The testing, if you want to get to and from New Zealand, another country that's really got this figured out.

They just have, I think that'll be great. And if we could figure out a way to make it easier for people to get tests, I know for me, for this next round of lockdown, I would happily go to Bermuda and set up shop and work from Bermuda with my brother-in-law for a month. Or, you know, maybe I'd go out West and like there were, I keep seeing all these deals on like Lake Louise, beautiful hotels. My husband and I are like,

if we could just, you know, get the tests that we need, we would go out there for a couple of weeks and I could do the morning show remotely. I've got my little remote radio station and I would do it. I would totally do it. Why won't you think of things like that then Caitlin? I, I mean, people are flying now. Uh, we're hearing less stories about the doomed COVID flights. We are hearing less stories. Uh, that has really changed. Uh,

Initially, I think the numbers were a little wacky because, you know, maybe people were pulling their masks off to eat a meal or to have a drink. And now they're getting like Nigel got on the plane and they were very much asked to do not take these masks off for any reason but to take a sip of your drink.

You know, eat your meals if you can, you know, staying seated, you know, pulling your mask aside. And they were literally telling them to do that. Yeah. To be very mindful about it. So I am at this point and much like you, I have a condo in Toronto. Yeah. That's getting some rentals done on it. And I'd really like to actually see them.

My dear friend Tommy Smythe and his partner are, you know, just doing some little things in there because I basically bought a concrete box. So let's be honest here. When I say condo, I mean concrete walls and it's, it's nothing fancy, but Tommy's like, I can make it look really cute and cozy, you know? He's the best. So, but I would love to be out there, Caitlin, to see it and to, to stay there for four or five days and,

walk around a little bit down Yonge Street and I keep feeling like I can do that. I mean, I wouldn't have a bunch of people into my condo. I would literally be in there by myself and walking down the street by myself. So in my mind's eye, I'm thinking like, why isn't that doable?

And I would get on a plane. I bet you, I bet you it is. And I'm, I'm getting closer and closer to being comfortable doing that, at least within Canada, like at least domestically or to a place like, or to a place like Bermuda where I know, you know, I'm probably the greater risk. Like they have such low cases there that I would only feel comfortable going if I knew that I was negative.

because I'm like, I'm coming from the place with more cases. So in those instances, yeah, I think I would feel okay with it. It's just, I have a lot of family that lives out east and their quarantine rules are really strict. Like you have to stay in the house for 14 days. You can't leave, have everything there when you set up. And it does impact your desire to go there in the first place, just because it changes how long you have to stay to make the trip kind of worthwhile.

And I get it. The lockdowns really worked for them. It's just so different. And I always wonder, I'm like, is, are there fewer cases of COVID related to air travel because air travel is safer and cleaner or is it because there's nobody doing it? So we don't have the data available on a bunch of people flying in the air because no one's up there. It's like, of course, there's only a few number of people who've gotten sick from flying. No one's flying. Well,

Having said that, what a great time to fly. There's nobody up there. Yep. Even Nigel said using the bathroom. He said, do you bloody remember our international flights? How bloody terrible the bathrooms looked and they were just bloody. He says everyone just urinated against the bloody, bloody walls. They were just pissing on the walls.

And I'm like, well, I wasn't in there peeing on the walls, but if somebody else was, but you would, you would look at the floor and you would look at the garbage bin and you would look at the sink and the hand cream and the soap. And you're like, I ain't fricking touching none of this. You have your own little thing in your purse. So he's telling me,

Like it was the bloody nicest experience having a wee in that bloody bathroom because it was so clean. And he said, this should have happened with air travel 20 years ago. Like he said, Jan, I doubt very much we will ever see bathrooms going back to that clean

bullcrap, uh, state of affairs again. So I, I think I, I would love to actually get on a plane probably third week in November and I will keep all our listeners in the loop on that because I, I am so close to booking a flight to coming and spending a week at the condo. There's been no, there's been no COVID in the building that I'm in. Um, and

And I just feel like I know the rules of the road and I could do it really safely. Am I being really wrong about that? Yeah.

No, I don't think so. And I don't blame people for changing their opinion on feeling safer. There was dead silence, folks. I'm like, hmm, we're not responding to you because you are taking your life in your own hands. No, I don't think so at all. I mean, and then it's always about like mitigating the risk when you land, obviously, too, right? Because Toronto's dealt with an uptick in cases. But like you said, you're going to be following all the rules and

don't want to have a ton of, you're not having a house party at your condo. You just like to mix it up a bit. That's how I feel. I'm just going stir crazy. Wouldn't you meet me in a park like from 20 feet away and we could yell at each other and we could be like, Caitlin, I love you. Adam, hi. I mean, like, of course. And I know people are taking Ubers. I know we're just going quickly to break, but I took my first taxi. I was in Vancouver for business. I did not fly last week. I drove. And I think my listeners know that.

I drove out there 10 and a half hours, but I was safe. Anyhow, took my first cab and I was literally sealed in a hermetically plastic box in the back of this cab. And I've never been in a cleaner cab in my life. You're listening to the Jenard podcast. We'll be right back.

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on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again. Oh, babe, I hate to go. Welcome back to the Jen Arden Podcast. I know we're talking about COVID-19 again, but we're talking about life surrounding COVID. We're about to go into winter. Do you guys think

I mean, obviously this is a huge shift in civilization on the whole. So this is something that's affected the entire planet. Do you think this is going to affect, for time immemorial, like from now on going forward, how human beings interact? Do you think the shift is permanent, that we will never go back to the way things were?

in any way, shape or form that the working from home stuff, the QR codes that we are scanning for restaurant menus now. I haven't, I've only been to, I think two cafes since this all started, but both times I was, there was a QR code on the table and,

And I said to my road manager, I said, what are we supposed to do with this? And he goes, just take a picture of it and your menu will come up. Yeah. So do you think, like, is there any reason why we need a frigging menu? It's

Some of the technology like that could stick around because I think, you know, especially people who are really tech savvy, younger people, younger generations, that's going to feel like second nature to them. Oh, that's me, Caitlin. I'm so tech savvy. Well, it's going to feel normal to people so quickly. I also, though, have to say that I think that people are so eager to get back to regular their quote unquote regular life.

that I can't see too many of these things voluntarily sticking around. You know, the stuff that has to stick around probably will, but I don't think people want to keep this in place. So what do you think will stick around? Give me just an example of what you think will not revert back.

I do think like Adam was saying earlier, I think that the working from home thing is going to be a big deal just because that is something that a lot of people, for reasons that you cited, enjoy. So the option to work from home, say two to three days a week, more flexible working hours. I really see that sticking around. And it also makes a lot of sense for these companies who, let's face it, are probably going to have to recoup some lost money after the pandemic. Well, guess what it costs them to rent a place or lease a place in a skyscraper in Toronto?

A fortune. It's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars a year. But what happens to those skyscrapers now? Do we amend all those spaces and actually start dealing with our homeless population? On those. Do we start making use of...

Um, are people going, they will be, do you think they will? Yeah, for sure. It'll be condos. I mean, if it's here in Toronto, it'll be condos. Is there a need for that? Is there that many condos that need to happen for affordable housing? Like, will this solve a lot of those problems or will the companies that own those buildings go no way or will they be more apt to,

listen, some income is better than no income. Will that be that kind of mentality? Yeah. I mean, they could drastically reduce leasing on office spaces to make it more affordable in the short term. And then you'll slowly see it climb back up. Like that could certainly happen. But companies are realizing we don't need all these people in an office to have our company run properly. You have those certain essential workers for sure. But I have a friend who runs a very large medical

tech company. And he told me that, you know, their lease that they were looking at, and I forget how many years it was for. It wasn't a lot. Like it's under five years. It was $7 million. And, and that's, and so, you know, we talk about rent and cost of housing being expensive on a, on a residential level in cities like Toronto or Vancouver. We,

commercial leases in this city are a fortune. This is big, big business. And if companies are struggling and they figure, oh, well, half of our workforce will be rotating. So we might be able to cut back on our office space by half. Let's give up this lease, get out of it while we can and get a smaller workspace moving forward. That type of stuff that makes financial sense and keeps people happy. I think people will hang on to.

But I'll ask you this again. What of the buildings? What of the new buildings? I know every time I've been to Toronto, there's at least a dozen cranes on the skyline that are building these condominiums. So I'll ask you again. Here's these 40-story buildings with nobody going back to the office or a skeleton crew.

And a lot of empty space. So what are we going to do with them? I really do think it'll probably be a lot of residential space. And maybe it will, because of the increase in supply, if that was an option, you would finally see a slight reduction in cost of living for mortgages and first-time buyers on new condos and all that stuff in Toronto.

We really also have a lack of rental spaces in the city. So you could turn some of them into rental spaces. And even though it's a pandemic, Toronto presently has one third of North America's cranes. One third of all the cranes in North America are in Toronto right now.

And that's like, it is just a city that it just, it keeps growing and growing. And Canadians can find that hard to believe. I'm one of those people. Cause I feel like I'm always like, Oh, we're not New York. And no, we're not New York, but we're growing a lot. We're a big, we're a big city. Well, let's talk about New York for a hot second here. Yeah. I think Toronto will easily surpass the size and the,

the, I think almost the entertainment value that New York had. I don't see that kind of getting back on its feet anytime soon. Toronto did have a very healthy, like a Broadway type community and lots of shows and stuff. And I feel like Toronto will get back to it and Canada will get back to it sooner than the United States will. So they, from everything that I've heard, I've got quite a few friends living in New York.

that are still kind of hanging on to their jobs, to their lifestyles there. But my friend Beth said, Jan, it's a ghost town. She goes, everything from the Upper West Side is emptied out. Yeah, the super, super wealthy elite have left New York for their country estates or their third home on an island. Well, there's absolutely a lot of vacancy, which is unheard of in Manhattan.

And places, Beth said, Jan, you can rent a one bedroom here now for $1,200 a month. She said that would normally have cost you. Yeah. She said there's things in the paper that are like between 1,200 and 1,800 bucks for one bedroom. The average one bedroom rental in Toronto just dipped below $2,000 a month. I think, I want to say for the first time in like, I mean, at least five years. Yeah.

So it is, the rental market is soft everywhere. And part of that is because immigration has slowed down. So like a lot of people aren't, that's a huge thing for us here in terms of population. Students, yeah, students aren't there as much. And they call them ghost hotels. These are condo buildings in Toronto that are predominantly made up of Airbnb units. Yeah.

And so they call it a ghost hotel because it's essentially a hotel. And that has completely changed because tourism has dropped off. And the rules around Airbnb rentals have changed as well during the pandemic. So all those vacancies amount to a much lower amount in rent per month, thankfully for renters.

So just getting back quickly to touch on this working away from home and finding, you know, a change of scenery. What, what, how, how close do you think either of you guys would be to doing something even after Christmas? Cause January, we all get kind of squirrely here. Like would you, Adam consider taking the girls and your wife for 10 days?

maybe even up north and doing, you know, if you had a good, good wifi satellite or whatever up there just for two weeks of just looking at something different.

Yes, I would do that. My in-laws have a cottage in Collingwood, which is a couple hours north of Toronto. And it's quiet. It's slow paced. It's serene, especially Collingwood's beautiful in the wintertime. Hikes and trails and good places to be outside playing in the snow. I could easily work from there. Just give me a laptop, headphones,

Internet's good in Collingwood. I would do that. Yeah, for sure. And how far away are you, Adam, from getting on a plane domestically? Like seriously, would you consider it in the next three months? Maybe.

Maybe. Because I think what you were saying before, I agree with you. I don't think flying on a plane now is what it was back in March or April. Like people are way safer and the airlines are not willing to take any precautions. So I'm getting there. I Google all inclusives every single day because I am dying for a beach. Well, this is what I'm talking about. I think people are living vicariously through COVID.

you know, these internet ad pop-up ads that come up and say, you know, two weeks in the Dominican Republic. And don't get me wrong. People are doing it. Yeah. You know, people are flying out of here. You know, I have friends that always say, the borders are closed. Like what's going on? The borders are closed. There's people flying out.

to Palm Springs. There's people flying to LA. I see actor friends of mine all the time with their shields, their masks, their fricking gloves. They're sitting in their little cube and they're flying from Toronto to LA to act and stuff. And they're like, God help me. God be with me. Here I go. I'm on the flight. So they're flying from Canada into the United States. So you tell me how this is working.

Nigel was supposed to come and see me December the 22nd. And he said, you better bloody talk to Mr. Trudeau.

Like, I don't think you can come from the UK and fly to Calgary. I'm pretty sure you can. Do you think you can? So would he just quarantine here? Yeah, exactly. So again, I think it would be contingent upon, you know, do you take, is it a rule where you take the test before you get on the flight and then a test again once you land? And you definitely have to quarantine and the RCMP will 100% check in on you and you get a, you know, you're getting in trouble if you don't.

Well, they could quarantine here in the house. Like they can come here and I'll go get the groceries. Anyway, you're listening to the Jen Arden podcast. We are going off today. It's a COVID kind of day. Don't go away. We do it for the instant. We do it for the gram. Angles out of tape pitch. With a body like that. We're moving on to something called soft launch dating. No, soft launch relationships. Yeah. So soft.

Just, Caitlin, I'm going to throw to you because this sounds effed up. I don't even know what to say. Like dating in the new world, like not only did I not have a reason to date before, but now I feel like I have even more reasons going forward to not date. So Caitlin, explain to the folks out at home the soft launch relationship launch on Instagram.

So you probably are familiar with the term soft launch, like say of a restaurant, right? So this is before the official opening. You get invited. Everything's not perfect. You haven't ironed all the kinks out yet, but you can go to the establishment. You can have something to eat, get a sense of what the restaurant's all about. I miss them. I used to go to them. I miss restaurants. So now...

I think the, you know, the younger generation, not to sound like I'm, you know, being 900 or anything, but it takes a lot longer to give yourself an official title of being in a relationship than it used to. Like the talk, like my single friends don't have the talk with people anymore. Well, okay. Unless you're a lesbian because they get married the next day. What was that joke that I feel like Rosie O'Donnell said, like you show up with a U-Haul or something on the second date. Yeah.

Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, I like it. But so yeah, it takes longer and longer to get an official title on the status of your relationship and have that talk. And so one of the things that they do as like a slow climb up the mountain to full relationship status is without saying anything, without making a declaration, you just start to show pictures of the person who you're

dating on your Instagram profile. And so it makes a bit of an announcement maybe to other people who were in your DMS or who were checking you out. They're looking over your shoulder going, who's the guy with the red hair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't, but you don't point an arrow at him in your feed. You don't do anything like that. You just let people figure it out.

You just see this person on your friend or the person you're following's feed show up. Maybe it's just them at dinner. Maybe it's just their hands first. And, you know, it's slowly, it's slowly. That's creepy, Caitlin. It is creepy. A hand on your shoulder in your picture.

I am saying that because I know somebody who actually did it. It's someone I work with. And in the soft launch of their relationship, which behind the scenes I knew was very much a relationship relationship, but the social media declaration of girlfriend, boyfriend had yet to happen. And so they were very careful with posting more and more photos of this relationship. And it literally started with a pair of hands across a few dinner tables in a row. And then all of a sudden it was like more and more of a reveal.

It was like the ultimate soft watch. That's kind of cute. Yeah, they were testing the waters just to see. You know, it's nice that it wasn't genitalia. They showed a little bit of the bum and then it went higher or lower and then it was the torso and then you got to, yeah. No, I kind of agree. I think people are very reluctant to say this is my boyfriend, this is my girlfriend because obviously

I'm assuming what happens is that people can get dumped pretty quickly out there. I don't know. We went on six dates. Everything seemed to be going really well. I took him to a wedding. Well, whatever. Now I'm just really out there on a limb. But you know what I mean? Like all of a sudden on going into date seven, there's a no show. There's a no show.

Yeah. And this is after six dates. This is after being nude with someone. Yeah. Like a couple of times. People get ghosted a lot these days. Like that just happens. It's so easy to just fall off the face of the earth and avoid someone altogether. If the only connection you have is your phone, you can just stop replying to them. Yeah.

And so I think, yeah, if you want to have that awkward moment of are we boyfriend and girlfriend, like people don't want that. It's awkward. It's vulnerable. And this is a way to test out that that person's interest in being your official plus one by just including them more and more in your social media. I just find it all so scary. It is scary. I really feel for people that are

trying to navigate the dating world. I saw a really interesting clip. Drew Barrymore has a new talk show and she had on Sharon Stone. And of course they're doing things virtually Sharon's at home. But one of the topics that, that drew brought up, she goes, so Sharon, um,

you have made this declaration that you're not dating anymore. You're not going to date anymore. You don't want to do it. And she asked Sharon why. And she just said, listen, I've had my kids. I don't want to have another one.

She said, this might really be politically incorrect. This is Sharon Stone folks, not me. She said that men just are not willing to step into that. And I apologize, Adam does not step into the level of emotional maturity that she needs as a woman in her sixties. She said, I have no time for games, no time for ghosting, no time for the crap, the dance that goes around, you know, uh,

you know, can you imagine someone looking over Sharon Stone's shoulder to see what's better out there? Like they're literally like it's Sharon Stone, but there might be somebody better than Sharon Stone.

So she just said she's literally loving her friendships, loving the intimacy of her friendships, obviously not physical intimacy, but just of having dinner with girlfriends and meaningful conversations, meaningful get togethers. And she's like, I am literally done with it. She goes, it's going to take a miracle. So I have to say, I kind of feel for where she's coming from.

Yeah, dating is so hard. Adam's putting his hand in the air. So I just Googled. I haven't seen what Sharon's... I know what she looks like, but I haven't seen a recent picture of her. So I just Googled what she looks like. If I wasn't married, I'd be very happy to emotionally step into that role that she needs. Sharon, you heard it here first. Sharon, if you're listening. But it was an interesting question of why she felt...

you know, that she just couldn't engage in that. She goes, I don't have the time. So as we get older, it gets more and more difficult to invest yourself in another human being because it is truly a commitment. So the soft opening will long make me laugh. I think it's a really funny take on getting your feet wet. It just seems like,

I don't know. Maybe it's like courting of days gone by. It wasn't like in 1910, you had to have a chaperone with you even on a walk through the garden? Probably. I mean, now it's like everyone's just calling an Uber for somebody at the end of their Netflix and chill night being like, are you going to...

Can I get you an Uber so you can go home? It's definitely very different now than it was. And I think that obviously if you're like Sharon Stone, you've put in so many years of dealing with crap from people and being ghosted and being disappointed that you probably just don't have the energy for it anymore. And that's why I think for some people, dating is like a younger person's game just because you're still optimistic. You haven't been burned so many times. You have more energy and you just have more time for it. And you get older in life and you just think, I don't have time for this.

This is what I will say though, and not to, I don't want to be the harbinger of doom because I've lived this, you know, not a lot of times in my life, but I know that occasionally, you know, even making a new friend as an adult, as a 58 year old woman, when I do meet someone that intrigues me, that I find to be fascinating and unique and

and that has this voice that really stands out, that has an energy about them. I am telling you, I will go, I will move mountains to get to know that person. I will be aggressive. I will be forthright. I will make my intentions very known.

Because I don't want to let really important people slip through my fingers. And like I said, I meet hundreds of people. And so did you guys back in the day. We had a lot of people coming and going. You meet a lot of people coming into the office. A building like the Much Music building sees thousands of people come in and out of it.

And in my job, I meet thousands of people. Occasionally, I will meet somebody very randomly, like in some, and it's always in a way that you least expect it. So I want to put that out there to people too. Don't give up on the when you least expect it scenario.

Because I think we've all become so disenchanted with the apps, with dating, or even just making friends. Aside from dating, meeting a friend. Don't give up on the idea of that random thing.

but somehow very deliberate encounter with another human being that really turns your head around, like makes you stop. So, and make the effort when that effort is required, don't sit back and say to yourself, I'm going to let them do all the work. I'm going to let them do everything. I'm not going to be the one that phones. I'm not going to reach out with a text. I'm not going to be that person either. You know, make sure you let yourself be known, even at the risk of being,

hurt. I think it's, I think it's a risk worth taking guys. Do you think that you would be like, there's like less likely of a chance that you would be single right now if we weren't in a frigging pandemic? Like, do you think if you were like out meeting people, touring, doing all that stuff, do you think that there's a better chance that you would have met someone? Cause I bet you there are a lot of people who this is like a weird slow year for them dating wise too. Yeah.

I'll say. I think I would still be single unless I met that very specific person. And like I said, I'm not going to sit back and just be complacent about it. I feel like when you meet someone that intrigues you, that you find enchanting, that you find...

You've got to get your lasso going and spinning it in the air and give it a chance. I mean, don't be weird and creepy, but I think you need to find the balance between weird and creepy and letting it be known that you are interested. Yeah, absolutely.

Legitimately. And don't lose faith in people. We've only got like 60 seconds left, but I guess I just want to be positive about there are amazing people out there. There are people that are like-minded. There are people that share your

your ethics, your morality. And I still feel like, you know, opposites is a great thing, but I also believe that people that share your interests, that's important too. And don't, don't buy into all the statistics about it's less likely to meet someone and get married than it is to be, you know, shot by a terrorist by the time you're 30. I mean, I remember that statistic was going around for a while and you're like, okay, I think I'll just put on my pajama bottoms and go eat ice cream.

So be of good cheer, everybody. Good things do come from bad things. It's such an honor spending an hour with you guys every week. Adam Karsh, Caitlin Green. Caitlin just had someone blow a trumpet in her building. But thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys so much. Listen, go and subscribe on iTunes if you see us on your favorite podcasting places everywhere.

Hit subscribe. That way you'll get reminded about our episodes without having to go searching for them every week. We appreciate it so much. If you know someone that can sponsor us and that wants to be an advertiser on this show, you can come in for a dollar. We're now just accepting them. And we'll read your grandmother's name out loud. Anyway, thanks for listening. This is the Jan Arden Podcast. Toodle-oo-doo.

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