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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling. And so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing. Cash back.
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This is literally, I'm very excited about this particular episode because it's one of my dearest friends, Nicole Avant. She has got an amazing memoir coming out called Think You'll Be Happy, Moving Through Grief with Grit, Grace, and Gratitude. This story you're about to hear is unbelievable. Nicole comes from a legendary family.
entertainment family. Her father has a documentary about his life on Netflix right now called The Black Godfather. Clarence Avant is the chairman of Motown Records. And Nicole herself has lived an amazing life. She's the ambassador to the Bahamas, appointed by President Barack Obama. She's married to Ted Sarandos from Netflix. Just an amazing, amazing woman, an amazing, amazing life. And I think you're really going to like this talk.
What's happening, girlfriend? My goodness. We finally did it. I know. We're here. I'm so excited about this. I know. So am I. It's so weird. So we have known each other. Well, I mean, the first time we laid eyes on each other was... Early 80s. Early 80s. 84, maybe? Wham years. Wham. Show me. Do you have the photo? I have the photo. I have the photo. Hold on. It's right here.
So you're in Beverly Hills High School. Beverly High. Mid-80s. Oh, my God. Look at the bleach jeans. The white bleach jeans tucked into the black boots. Look at how cute you are. Okay, now wait. Now, who's that? Melissa Paul. Melissa Paul. That's Katya Sassoon. Yes. Now, is that Laura Wasser? That is freaking Laura Wasser. I am so glad I behaved myself. Yes.
Laura Wasser is the number one divorce attorney in the world. You don't want Laura Wasser on your phone sheet. Every time Ted runs into her in LA, she says, hey, how you doing? We're good. We're good. Stay away from us. We're great. Do you know, I've known Laura since we were three. We went to nursery school together. And this is the party I crashed? Yes, you crashed and all of us freaked out. Oh my God, Rob Lowe's here. Oh my God, Katya was in love with you. Everyone was in love with you. And
And I remember just standing there frozen. Oh, my God, that's Rob Lowe. That's really Rob Lowe. I mean, that's when you were, you know, we were coming off of the outside. All of it. Yes. Where was, where did, I love the notion that we're running around crashing people's birthday parties in the 80s. And I don't remember who you were with. You were with somebody else. It could have been Robert Downey. I don't know. You were with somebody famous. Was
Was this the club that Prince used to go to all the time? In the basement? In the basement. I think so. Of the Beverly Center. Of the Beverly Center. I think it was there. And I remember going to the Roxbury, knowing, going into the back, because my fake ID wouldn't work. And it was probably those stupid acid jeans that I was wearing. But I knew the busboys because I used to work down the street.
My mom always had me be a waitress somewhere. So the beauty was they would take out the trash. He'd let me know what time he took out the trash. And then I would go in the back and go through the kitchen. Thank God my friend Brad Johnson, God bless him. He was running Roxbury at the time. He would just smile, just pretend he didn't see me. Like, what? How did you get in again?
But how good was the Roxbury? Well, how about that? I remember before the Roxbury, this sounds like the lamest idea for a club ever. I'm about to lay on you. I used to go every Wednesday night to what became the Roxbury, but Wednesday night it was called the Boss Club. Oh God. And it was only Springsteen music. Really? Yes. Oh, I love that. I mean, can you imagine like it's the whitest club in the history. Just,
It's sunny in the dark in the 80s. But how good was that? I remember going to that concert, I think at the Coliseum. I think he was at the Coliseum. Yeah, he was. And that was one of the best shows I had ever seen. And we had nosebleed seats.
I asked my dad at the last minute and I had to go though. It was my favorite album. I had to go. I went to every concert in Haiti. Yeah. I mean, so your, your dad, Clarence, who we just lost, what, a month ago? A couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. I know. I was so glad that I got to know him. I know. But I feel like I'm the only person who didn't know everybody else.
He's literally the godfather. I know. But at least you got to hang out with him a couple of times and see him right when he needed the most love. Yeah. And you came over and you and Cheryl were the...
Some first people up here in Santa Barbara came to visit him. And remember, I had kind of moved him up here after my mom died. And you were the first person he met that lived up here. And he loved when I would come home and tell him all these stories about you and Cheryl and Ted. And I show him all these pictures. You guys are crazy. Look at you. You're crazy. But he loved that we had fun.
And he had such a joy for living and someone who has accomplished. Yes. I'm always amazed at people who've accomplished historic things like your dad did and who could just as easily be disconnected, you know, sort of on their pedestals and their worlds getting smaller and smaller. And he never, never did. He was like curious, always curious to the end. Always. Wouldn't you say? Absolutely. And could talk to people.
You know, whether you were the janitor in the White House or the president in the White House, to him, nobody was different. You know, nobody, everyone's valuable. That was his lesson to me is everybody is valuable and everybody has a role to play.
And the fact that people disconnect from others because, oh, what can they do for me? Oh, well, they're not really... Everybody serves a part in this life. And nobody is better than anybody and no one is less than everybody. We all say it, but we really... You could see now, we're not really living that anymore. Everyone's looking at their phones. We're not looking at each other. We look at...
Somebody who's making the coffee is somebody less than, or again, this false idea of somebody being insignificant because of their position was something that my father drilled deep
into me early because he said, you know, that is so wrong. And he lived it. I mean, my dad was picking cotton and tobacco as six years old in North Carolina. And, you know, so that's 1937. And yeah, so, you know, 1937 segregated America was not fun for him and no peace for him. And he, but he never let anything stop him. He
I mean, perseverance really is his middle name. He just was, I have a life to live.
And I'm going to live it every day as best as I can. And then as he moved forward and doors opened up for him, he decided, you know what? Then this is my role, that I'm going to keep the door open for as many people, especially my people, as possible. And that's why he became known as the Black Godfather, because he got involved in every area and was really focused on fairness and
people succeeding and he loved being an entrepreneur and he believed in the American spirit of entrepreneurism and, you know, really progress, American progress. What are his, what are all your Clarence's accomplishments? Give me the ones that blow your mind the most.
Oh, gosh. And this is a super hard question. No, you know, it's interesting. I was just talking about this the other day. He had this jazz artist. He was managing Jimmy Smith. And he was an organist and he was great. And there was a really very famous jazz producer, Creed Taylor. He was managing him at the time. And Jerry Moss... Who we just lost. Yes. So Jerry Moss heard...
the production said he wanted to make a deal with Creed Taylor. And my father made the craziest deal. I think at the time it was $35,000 a year. And my dad ended up getting him a couple of years, but the contract was for $450,000. What? Yes, in the 60s. It was unheard of. What, for a jazz artist? Yes, but my father, it was for a jazz producer. But my dad's point was, Nicole, Joe Glazer, his mentor, taught me
you know what? You take the elevator up and then you walk down. You just ask for what you want. And the worst thing that can happen is it's no, who cares? So he always, his mantra all my life was, if you don't ask, you don't get. Every time I complained about something, if you don't ask, you don't get. So he was a killer negotiator. Beyond. I mean, everything. And he did, you
you know, he solved problems for everybody. But it's Michael Jackson trying to get out of this deal when he did, you know, there was something with E.T. And then he did this song and everybody was complaining about this deal. And he just he knows he was just a master negotiator. And but he really genuinely wanted all people to win. He always told me the good deal, Nicole, is when everybody gets at least a little bit of what they came to ask for.
So his transition into politics, right, was probably around the civil rights movement because he was right in the thick of it. He'd already had, his career was already big time in Beverly Hills, Hollywood, music. Yes. And then the civil rights movement happened. He's like at the front row seat. He is. And he knew Dr. King, Andrew Young. He knew and still friends. Andrew Young has been one of our friends.
oldest and dearest family friends. And my father decided right then and there, okay, I'm not in the march, but I can... You need funds, by the way. When you have a movement, you need funds. So my father was...
providing funds, he was organizing people to provide cars, hotel rooms, everything. He said, the whole thing is a system, you have to be working together. Dr. King would say, okay, we're gonna be in Selma, we're gonna be here, we're gonna be there. And these are the places that will allow us to stay. These are the Negro hotels, these are the car services that are owned by Negroes, this is where we need to, and my dad was right there. And that was his contribution.
to the civil rights movement in that way, which is very Clarence. He was like, if I go out and march, he says it in his documentary, if I go out and march and somebody hits me,
I might hit them back. I don't know how great I'm going to be on the front lines. Interesting. Yeah. The Black Godfather, you can see it now on Netflix. I mean, it's an evergreen. That thing will always be on the queue. Yes. And if it isn't, you're going to tell Ted to put it on the queue. It's actually, you know, I think it got after my dad passed, of course, and
People started, all the tributes started rolling in. And I think there was a new curiosity about him, which was beautiful. So I'm so happy that I was able to do the film while he was alive. Jerry Moss is in it with him. Abe Sommer is in it with him. We lost Jerry and Abe within 72 hours. Clarence, Jerry and Abe, Sommer, all left. The giants, giants of the music business. And Jerry and Abe really were...
true staples in my life. They weren't just my father's best friends. I mean, Quincy is his best, best friend and his brother. But Jerry and Abe and Clarence met in New York City in the 60s. They came to LA at the same time. Every time my father, I was just telling this story the other day that my dad had lost Sussex Records. Everything was folding at the time. Sussex Records, he had signed Bill Withers.
He had lots of hits. He was doing great, but he overextended himself. So then he got into the radio station business. He owned the first black-owned radio station in Los Angeles. But my dad started putting his hand everywhere.
And one thing after another, it just, you couldn't keep up. And the beauty of their relationship is, so Jerry Moss knew this and he called my dad over to the studio lot in A&M and he said, "Hey, you know, I want you to look at this contract and we're having this problem." My dad said, "Sure, sure, let me look at it." He goes, "You know, here's this envelope. Why don't you just take it home and look at it at home?" I just, well, I could read it right here. I just drove to the lot. "No, no, no, you know, Herbie and I want you to look at it at home."
So my dad says he got back in the car and, you know, he's pretty stern man. He's very stoic and didn't show his feelings a lot. And he said, Nicole, something told me to pull over. And he pulled over the car on his way home and opened the manila envelope. He said an inside was a fake contract and a letter from Jerry with a check. And he said, this is from me and Herbie. Pay us back when you can.
start over again. Oh my God, that's amazing. And it's amazing. And he started Taboo Records and then signed the SOS band at first. It was Take Your Time, Do It Right, that big song in the 80s. And it went number one. So it was huge for my dad because then it put him back on. And then from there, he started managing Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and then LA and Babyface and
On and on and on. Everybody just kept coming. You know, Whitney Houston, everybody would start coming to the house and wanted to renegotiate and wanted to work. And I mean, Clive Davis is part of that group too. Again, knowing my father in the 60s, still friends till the very end. So there's that really great group that I got to grow up with. David Geffen and, you know, Irving Azoff and Clive Davis and Abe Sommer and Jerry Moss and Herb Albert. I mean, all these people
Mr. Gordy was... They're all staples. I mean, and Smokey Robinson was there. And... What a life. It was incredible. And there was a few of them that moved...
Beverly Hills at the same time. So we weren't, I remember it clearly, it was a few, Dr. Query was there, Dr. McPherson, Dr. Williams, and then- All those were the doctors. The Robinsons, I know. And it was great because most black doctors lived in Baldwin Hills or most- Baldwin Hills was like the Beverly Hills. Yes, for African Americans, yes. That's right.
We, you know, my dad fell in love with Truesdale because Abe Summer took him there early 60s and they went to a party at Dinah Shore's house. And my dad said, where is this? What is this? And they said, it's Truesdale, Truesdale Estates. He said, Jackie, if we ever make enough money, if we ever can get here, we're going to live here. And of course, they didn't have enough money for the down payment, but his mentor, Joe Glazer, God bless him,
Because my dad said, oh, we're going to go buy in Baldwin Hills. And Joe says, what the fuck is Baldwin Hills? You're moving to Beverly Hills. My dad said, I don't have the money. He said, I didn't ask you that.
And then there, you know, and I think that's where my dad, you know, another one of his isms is, you know, I don't have problems. I have friends. And it's, it's so true because you look at his trials and his tribulations, we all have them. Everyone has different ones. And my dad went through a lot, but the one thing that he always reminded us of was he had really great friends that actually showed up and did the work and, and,
really showed up instead of just talking like, oh, I'm here for you. Sure, call me when you need me. Jerry Moss didn't ask him anything. He just gave him this. He gave him a check. Pay me back when you can. And then later on, my dad, he became chairman of Motown Records in the 90s. And, you know, he could start paying people back. And he did. What was it like for you growing up in Beverly Hills with a dad like that? I mean, how many black families were there in Beverly Hills? You went to Beverly Hills High School. I went to Beverly High. I went to Hawthorne Elementary. And
So I went to the school system at five, so from kindergarten all the way. And Laura Walzer and I, like I said, so we started, we were friends in nursery school from three. Oh my gosh. And then went all the way through Beverly together. And it was great.
Beverly Hills was different at that time. I mean, Jimmy Stewart was living there. Ella Fitzgerald was living there. And they would walk. They would walk around town. Dean Martin. Yes. Jimmy Stewart used to walk to the church on Cannon and Santa Monica. But you'd see them dressed up.
always dressed immaculately immaculately gene kelly yes everybody gene kelly lived right i think on canon also close to the beverly hills hotel they would all walk around in the flats and it was beautiful because it everyone was dressed to the nines everyone there was a you know children were children and adults were adults i think that's the difference now everybody is kind of
jumped in together, which is not working so great for society. But that's another conversation. But it was great to see
People like that. Let's put it this way. Rodeo Drive at that time was purely for adults. I didn't want to have anything to do... Oh my gosh. My mom would go there and I would sit in the car. You're not going to get good Georgios. Yeah, exactly. You're like... You mean you weren't taking selfies? Traveling all the way to take a selfie and turn around and go home? No, exactly. It was really great because...
There were, like I said, the Black families that were there. Barry Gordy was there. Smokey Robinson and Claudette were there.
Diana Ross was there. Let me think. And, you know, a few doctors that I mentioned, but we all were close. We were connected. I never had any issues growing up there. I never had any issues being a black person. Thank God. You know, we just didn't, thank God. I never was attacked or bullied or anything like that. You know, I, I, I,
I had a really, really great childhood. I'm very, very fortunate to have grown up in the house that I did, around the people that I did, because honestly, Rob,
Yes, they were famous people. I mean, Hank Aaron, all of them. I mean, my dad did his deal with Coca-Cola. Talk about a master negotiator. Wow, I mean, Hank Aaron and Coca-Cola, that's a groundbreaking. Athletes didn't do that. No, my dad said, he called Andrew Young. He said, do you know this guy? Because he's about to break Babe Ruth's record. If he's about to break his record, he needs an endorsement deal. Does he not have anything ready?
So I don't think so. So that's how they met. And then my dad famously walked up to the president, got into the president's office somehow, and then basically said, ends, drink Coca-Cola too. And got him a huge endorsement deal. And Hank Aaron says there would be no Hank Aaron without Clarence Davon. And when he said that,
And it's probably the best thing that came out of that documentary was, oh, this was really huge. There would be no Hank Aaron without Clarence Avant. But you know what Hank did? He took all of that endorsement money and he and his wife gave it all back. They've been putting children to school forever, for decades, giving people scholarships, again, paying it forward. And I think that's the difference. When I was growing up, the...
famous people that would come over, they didn't use their fame for themselves. It wasn't about themselves. It was about what are we going to do with this great blessing that we have? What are we going to do with our fame to better other people's lives? And they didn't care about magazine covers or any of that. They didn't care. They really wanted to do
other things and great things and pay it forward for other people. And Sidney Poitier was right in there too. And, you know, they were in Beverly Hills too. And he was, again, it was, they were these giants of souls though. They were larger than life to the average person. But to me, they were activists. They were really- And people who you'd seen in your living room. Yeah. And they never talked about themselves. It was always-
Children in this part of the world need food. This person over here needs this or we're going to make these movies and they would laugh and but they would be joyous and grateful, but they never forgot where they came from. But they also never allowed that to be a crutch. So they didn't live, you know, the idea that people even suggest now that there hasn't been a lot of progress in the last 60 years.
That is a very offensive thing to say to people who actually were marching and would be, you know, have bricks thrown at them or, you know, do sit-ins for you or walk 20 miles so you can have your civil rights. And then to say that there has been no progress.
That's just, you know, you got to think of the people that were there. Like to my father, that was very offensive. Yeah. Tell me. Really? Really? There hasn't been. Because when I was waking up when I was young, I was looking behind me for mobs all the time. I woke up, you know, I was part of a generation that when I woke up and I walked to school,
My mother and my aunties made sure to tell us, remind us every day, do not look up. Can you imagine? And when I asked why, I said, because you didn't know if you were going to see somebody lynched. You didn't know if you'd see somebody hanging from a tree. I mean, this is real. And it's just a fact. It's not to go sit on it. It's not to be woe is me. It's not going. It's just know your history, own it, and
But don't forget it because it's the best way to honor the people that came before you to do everything for you. Everything that I have right now, I'm very well aware that there are people that I will never be able to thank in person.
but I have never forgotten them. And for me to get up every day and work and give back and live my life to the fullest, that's the greatest thing that I can give to people who came before me to make sure that I can live the life that I live now. That's amazing. And it leads me to thinking about your dad who grew up not being able to look up on his way to going to school. And then accomplishes what he accomplishes, but he never let that horror go.
like eat him alive. No. Never lost his optimism. No. Like super optimistic. Beyond. Beyond. Beyond. Super optimistic. Like, no, not I'm a victim. No. Oh, he hated that. He hated that. Oh, no, no, no. He hated the victim stuff, right? Every time I tried to go into that, both my parents were very good at, oh, no, no, no. We're not playing that card now. I mean, my mom would look at me. Her mantra was, you sink or you swim. Pick one.
But that's it in life. You sink or you swim. And she was great because she really, she loved history. So I was steeped in history. I loved watching documentaries with her. I'd watch 60 Minutes with her. I'd watch various movies. She loved the arts. But she put me, there was this camp called the Olympic Boys and Girls Club. And it was in Westwood at Uni High. And I was in there, I think I started in 1975.
And it was great because it was the girls and the boys separate, but you had to compete. And she wanted me to learn how to win and lose and how to behave and be graceful when I won, try to figure out what happened if I lost. But her whole point was, I put you in sports because you needed to understand how life is. You're going to have ups, you're going to have downs, and I want you to compete against yourself.
You don't need to compete against other people, but you are always in competition with yourself.
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I want to start to talk about the book that you have coming out, but I would like you to walk me through the events that led to it.
to you having to write the book in the first place. Yeah. So my book is called Think You'll Be Happy, Moving Through Grief with Grit, Grate, and Gratitude.
And I actually started after the Black Godfather, I would do, you know, we would do screenings at places and Q&A. And there was a publisher in the audience and she said, you know, you have a book. There should be another book after this documentary. I love what you're putting out into the world. And I said, I don't know what it should be about. I'm not sure. People have always suggested that. And so she said, start thinking of the themes in the Black Godfather.
And then I meditated one day and what came to me was grit, grace, and gratitude. They all had that. And the grit...
is everything, which is opposite of victimhood. You know, it's the opposite. And it's the grit that you need. And grit is everything about America, by the way, for all races. Everybody who's an American and who's moving through this life, you have grit. I mean, we just do. We have this, you know, besides our imagination, I think is the best. You know, Americans just have this beautiful,
all of us, of, yeah, why not? Sure, why not? Why not? Yeah, we could do that. It's something that most people don't have, which is why everybody comes from around the world to be here. It's really not. Because we do have the energy of, yes, okay, even when things are wrong, even when things are unjust, even when things are bad, we turn around and, okay, no, we're not doing that anymore. Yep. We're not doing that. This is, that's a wrap. Yeah.
So, anyhow, I was writing on grit, grace, and gratitude. And then, unfortunately, an intruder, somebody came to rob, it was Rob, he had a few houses, I guess. He robbed my parents' house. He broke into their house early morning on December 1st. And unfortunately, my mom was probably five feet away in the kitchen from where he broke in. And...
It was probably, I don't know, according to the officials that I was talking to, no more than three minutes of an encounter. I mean, to the point at least where she had scared him enough where he left. But unfortunately, he had a rifle and he did a round of shots and one of them hit her in the back. And I...
I had, thank God, I had spoken to her. I called her that day and I called her around 4.45. I remember my dad said, she's sleeping and she's very tired today. And I'm not sure why she's so tired. And then he laughed because we're getting old though. So we take a lot of naps. And I said, dad, you know what? There was a school shooting today in Michigan.
I go, and you know how mommy gets, she gets very upset. She really was having problems with, why are all American children shooting each other? I can't even imagine what parents are going through because I never once thought when I dropped you and Alex off at school, I never once thought for a million, in a million years that someone, I was going to get a call that there was, somebody came in and shot the whole kindergarten class. It's unthinkable. And I,
So I said, you know, that's probably it, dad. He goes, oh, you're right. I'm watching it on CNN now. So my mom had texted me. I was getting into the bath. I remember exactly. She had texted me around eight o'clock.
We were laughing and she said, it's time to come get your sweet potato pie from Thanksgiving that my dad, of course, took home. He took my pie home for himself. And it's interesting when we talk about intuition a lot, I started to be sarcastic in my text back to her. I was like, oh, mom, OK, you and this sweet potato pie. And I swear to God, my intuition was like, do not send that. She's not going to think that's funny.
And thank God I listened. Delete, delete, delete. And then I made a joke. Hey, mom, okay, I'll think about it. And I'll call you tomorrow. You know, I called you earlier. Dad said you were sleeping and then gave her her favorite emoji. And she wrote back, okay, think you'll be happy. Those are her last words to me. Think you'll be happy. I got into the bath and two something in the morning, Ted called me and he said, babe, you have to get up.
your mom's been shot. And I said, you know, and then you freeze. I go, what? And then I'm assuming they're out to dinner because I couldn't even track what time it was. I go, what? He goes, Nicole, seriously, your mom has been shot. You have to get to Cedars. I said, shot? Wait, what? Ted, he goes, Nicole, I don't have the, I don't have it. I just know your mom's been shot.
They were trying to call me. I had my phone in the other room. And I mean, it was next to me, but I had my phone on and something kept telling me, something kept telling me, you know, I missed probably 10 missed calls from my brother. And he finally got to Ted. Ted was at a work retreat. Thank God, still in LA, so not far. He goes, get in the car. I'm going to meet you at Cedars. And then...
I walked into Cedars, saw my dad sitting there, almost 91. My dad was two months shy of 91. So he's sitting there in shock, not understanding what's going on. Very optimistic, to your point. So he said, oh, you know, she's in surgery. I said, daddy, what happened? Oh, I don't know. You know, because he was on the other side of the house. He wasn't anywhere near her. She was in the kitchen. So he didn't break in near their bedroom. Thank God. But yeah, so...
And then from that moment, they, you know, it's exactly like you see in TV and movies. They, the guy comes out, come to the back room. And I knew that look. I said, oh no. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's the look and everybody knows the look. And I, he said, the doctors want to come see you. And I said, oh, he said, we're going to go back to this room. And as soon as he said this room,
In my heart, I said, this is not good. And everyone was still trying to be optimistic. And we sat down and I don't remember this, but Ted says, as soon as they said the words, she did not make it. My brother wailed. I do remember that, you know, as if he was like an animal that's been pierced. And then my father fell onto me. And then Ted said, I sat up straight.
completely like an arrow. And I guess I kind of became her. All of a sudden, I just started delegating. Okay, you know, I looked at my brother's girlfriend, get him out because I don't, you know, I understand that he's traumatized, but my dad, I got to take care of my dad. I just went into the focus of, I got to take care of this 91-year-old man who's just become a widower and, you know, his wife was murdered.
I mean, it was so shocking, to say the least. And I had my dad drive with Ted because, again, he had taken a separate car. I said, Ted, get my dad in the car. I'm going to drive home. He goes, Nicole, you can't drive. I go, I can drive. I need to talk to my mom. I just need to talk to my mom. And that's what I did on the way home. I go, I don't know what to do.
but I'm going to do my very best. And I don't really know what happened. And I hope this is a bad dream. And I hope I wake up soon. But mom, you know, I said, I just remember saying, I'm going to do my best. And then I kept quoting as much scripture as I could, that I could remember. And then I remember being in such a daze that there was somebody behind me and there was no one on the streets. It was six o'clock in the morning, maybe if that. And the light turned green and I must have not
I was in shock and this guy blared to the point where, and then I'm apologizing to him, but there was nobody on the street. And it was so, and that actually, that's when I started crying. His blaring on his horn was
Get out of my effing way. And it was so, and it was just this feeling of this cruelty, this cruel energy. I'm calm down. And I pulled over and just wailed, just shaking. And then I got home and I got my dad upstairs and I said, dad, I have no idea what to do with this. And
But I do know that we have to keep the faith. And I do know that we are going to get through this as a family. And I'm not saying the pain's ever going to go away, but wounds do heal. You know, we'll have scars, but I'll do my best. And we kind of created new routines with each other. I'm struck with, thank you for sharing that. That's just, I mean, I'm struck with the solve, even in that initial horrifying shock, unimaginable moment being like,
We'll get through this. We'll be together. Like all, again, all of the positives. And by the way, and not even, I've never heard you once like in the anger or bitterness that you must have felt because you're human. Yes. But like, you don't go there and that's one of your great, um,
quotes about about the book is like you won't let the anger at the gunman no consume you or tarnish the legacy of your mother or or how she left this earth or any of that stuff and that that's it was my first prayer in the car i said god please don't let me hate this man please do not let me hate this man i don't i don't want to i don't want to know the name i don't want to see the face
But I will not let, I was furious. I had never felt fury, actually. I was furious. I mean, I wanted to throw everything, hit somebody. I was furious. I mean, consumed with it. And I thought, oh my God, I'm going to make myself sick.
I'm going to make myself sick. So I don't want this poison. I don't want this dark matter, this dark energy that showed up. The best way that I can love my mom and honor my mom is to move forward in the best way that I can. Some days I move forward
And some days I was like a snail. You know, there were some days where I prayed for wisdom. Some days I prayed for peace. Some days I prayed for energy. Some days I prayed for it all. And some days, you know, there was maybe one day that I didn't get out of bed. And my father looked at me and I came down for dinner at 630. And he said, I understand where you are, but you can't keep doing that. And I knew exactly what he meant. He goes, if you stay in bed for five more days, you'll never get out.
You'll it's quicksand. I mean, he knew he's like despair is a horrible energy that will you'll only end up in the quicksand. You have to know what it is. So he said, cry it out. We could go on walks. So he created this new thing with me. He said, we're going to walk in the backyard. We're going to take a walk.
we're going to listen to music together. So I started playing my 1980s, my playlist from 1976, which is my favorite. And then I did the 80s, which made me happy because he was great. He said, what do you think about when you think about mom? What are your favorite memories? I said, oh, always begging her to go to a concert. You know, I need to go see the Culture Club. I need to go see Duran Duran. I need to go see U2. I need to go see the police. Whatever it was. She goes, oh, really? Well, well,
Well, it seems like you have a D in geometry. Oh, that's too bad. You're not going to be able to go. All of a sudden, I got an A in geometry. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She was very good at the barter. Oh, she was very good at. Really? You would like this? I mean, everything. Mom, I really don't want to live in a dorm anymore. I've been living in a dorm for a year. Well, Nicole, then you can. I'll help you get an apartment. You have to go get a job. And I need these grades. And if you do that, then I'll help you get an apartment. Otherwise, you can enjoy the dorm.
With all the boys. It was great because she always made me work for things, which was a habit that now I look back and think, thank God. And she always had me in service. So she had me waitressing, you know, where they would take me 16, 18, 20. And it was a game changer. And she was right. I don't think kids at 16 even get jobs now. No, everybody wants to.
No, they all want to wait for an internship. I mean, my mom got me out of that house at 18. She's like, goodbye. Bye. I mean, bags. Bye. I didn't even go far. I went to Cal State Northridge. She could not wait to pack my bags. Good riddance. Yeah. Amazing. But she was a game changer because she said, when you have to serve people,
you will see the best of humanity and you will see the worst of humanity. And she was right.
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All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪
Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. And the shooter is serving three life sentences. Yeah, I think it's 190. Yeah. Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, something. Something. Yeah, no. Well, and he shouldn't. That was my letter to the judge of listen.
Yes, my family is shattered. Yes, we're devastated. All of that. More importantly than us, my prayer is that this person cannot do this to another family. That is my prayer. So this is why I'm asking just for whatever, because this is horrific and nobody should have to go through it. People go through it. I understand, you know, we're not...
special people. Because people would say to me, can you believe this happened to you? Can you believe this happened to your family? Can you believe this? And I thought, you know, at first, and then I sat down and I went, well, why not us? Why not? I mean,
Bad things happen all the time. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Bad things happen all the time. You know it. You've lived through it. Accidents, addictions, this, that. Things happen to people. We're on the planet Earth. So none of us get to skate and not think differently.
that we're not going to have a challenge to overcome. None of us get to. That's why we're here. That's why we're here, to learn the lessons. And my mom, thank God, she was always eternal. She was always basing reality on eternity, which was great for me. So she would remind me, this part is temporary, Nicole. The earth is temporary. Home is the other. You come from the other side to come here and go to school.
Learn your lessons. You hope your soul grows. You have your challenges. You're here to overcome them. The soul is everlasting.
And that's really was her basis for me, but it helped me through this trauma. How did she know that, do you think? She studied everything and she really did. She studied everything. I mean, she raised me as a Christian, but she dabbled in it. She studied everything. I shouldn't say dabbled. She studied everything. Buddha scripture, Hindu scripture, Christian scripture. She loved it all. And she gave it to me.
all of it to me. And I'm grateful for that too. And she traveled the world and really just understood, oh, right. You know, time is your most precious, the most precious thing that we have. It really is. Cause you don't know. My dad, another one of his isms is you come with a number and you end with a number. What are you going to do with the dash?
What are you doing? Sometimes people come and their dash is three years. Sometimes it's 93 years. Sometimes it's 50 years. You don't know. The question is, what do you do with your dash? How are you going to live? Because none of us, we all think we're going to live to 100. Okay, well, some people do. That's great. Most of the time you don't. And time is really the only thing that we can't control anymore.
which is why we've talked about this many times of prayer and meditation and you love to get out in the ocean and you love to live your life. And with your challenges, with everything that you've experienced in your life, I tell you this all the time and I'll say it right now. I commend you for it because
You've helped so many people by simply sharing your story. And it's important for people so that people do not feel alone or ashamed by whatever their challenges are. As soon as someone else comes out and says, oh, I had that too. And here's what I did. And here's how I got sober. And here are the tools that I used. And hopefully one of these things will help you too. And I think it's very important that all of us
kind of take off this coat of shame and just take it off. You know, we could just take it off because everyone's going through something. Yes. Everyone. I mean, we all see the guy, you know, in the Ferrari and everyone, you know, with the pretty girl and everyone's thinking, I want that life until you don't know that guy might want to take that Ferrari and wrap it around a tree. It's my favorite quote
in recovery ever that I learned a long time ago is never compare your insides to someone else's outsides. It's my favorite. I love that. It's a great one, right? That's a great one. There's another one I think for me that somebody told me, it's your best thinking that got you here. That's right. Yes. I used to say that to kids all the time. Yeah, well, your best thinking got you here. Yeah.
So sit down, zip it. The other one I love as a kid of growing up with actual radio, as I know you did, is turn off that radio station that plays in your brain, K-Fuck.
Oh, that is good. Isn't that a great one? Oh, that's a good one. But it's true. Turn off the radio station. Turn it off. Turn it off. I have to say to myself sometimes when I'm going in a negative spiral, that movie's not playing anymore. When I go to the past, I have to say it out loud. That movie is no longer playing. It's over. Stop it. So when you, this book is, it's the perfect thing for you to do. Thank you.
And I really, and I appreciate you telling that unbelievably painful story, but I think it's important because it frames the book in such a strong way. Because who wouldn't be interested in a book about that theme? But if there were to be a person, that framing of it
would be so compelling and so universal. I think everybody would go, how did you do it? How did you get through that? Right. How are you still functioning? You know what I, and also the book taught me, you know, grief,
Grief shows up to every single human being in different ways. We all grieve. You can grieve a breakup. We all grieve. It could be a relationship. It could be a dog dying, your parent dying, your sister dying, whatever it is. You could get let go from a job after 60 years and you thought that was your family. Whatever it is, grief is grief. Grief is grief. And you can beat yourself up.
sometimes also on something really small, like what? Yes. Like, I mean, I...
When my first kid went to college, it was huge grief for me. And I wrote about it and like you have, people still share it when they send their kids to school. But I was like, this is ridiculous. People send their kids to war. People have terminal diseases. Why am I so worked up about this? Grief doesn't care. It doesn't care. Grief is grief, period. And it shows up in different ways, like you said, for different people. And it surprises us in different ways.
you know, your child goes to school, it's a great blessing. You can send your son to school and you're completely losing it. I know it's insane. It makes no sense, but it's the heart and the beauty, you know, my friend, Penny always tells me, you know, grief is the receipt and the proof that you loved that. That is why you grieve. You, you, you, you, you loved.
You know, you invested in someone and something and you can't have grief without loving, having loved something. That's the receipt. It's the proof. This is...
You're going to, so many people are going to read this book now. This has been such a great talk. I love you so much. I love you so much. Thank you. This is the day I laid eyes on you. I love you. In the club in the Beverly Center. I didn't know you'd grow up to be such a thoughtful, wonderful. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. I love you. Thank you. I appreciate it. What an amazing woman.
What an amazing book. What just an attitude like that. What a gift. I'm so grateful to have friends like Nicole in my life. And I'm really grateful that I was able to share her for a brief moment with you guys. Thanks for listening. All right. Just one more thing before we end today's episode. Let's check the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.
where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hey, Rob. It's Andrea Gage from Sacramento, California. And I was scrubbing the shower the other day, and all of a sudden, it hit me. I wonder what kind of chores Rob Lowe likes.
Or does it like? Maybe it was the first chore that you hired a professional to do for you. Or is it like that laundry really does relax you? Maybe some ironing? I don't know. That's my question for the day. Thanks for bringing such joy to your life. It brings joy to me too. Thank you. You are so nice. First of all, there's a lot to unpack in there. I love so much about what I just heard. First of all, I love that the idea came to you in the shower.
That's where all good ideas come to most people. That's where the question came, love that. And I love the question. What an interesting, great question. Okay, a couple things. Disclaimer from the offset, I am one of the least handy people you will ever meet.
I just didn't, I never had that in my upbringing. It's not, and I've, and I, and I actually, and I'm not kidding. I've had a lot of like guilt and like feeling less than about it. Really. I have, but I realized I wasn't raised in that world. Like, you know, my dad never like was like, here's how to fix a carburetor. It was not happening. Um,
And I think I probably would have been fine. You know, it's just something that wasn't in my world. But without a doubt, the thing, the chore I love more than anything is watering the yard. Like there's fresh sod out there to make sure the sod is watered, plants watered. Super, it's like a meditational experience for me.
And I'm outside, love being outside, being in nature. I love that. So gardening, you know, just pruning trees, that kind of thing is amazing for me. Ironing, I'm not gonna lie, I don't do a lot of it myself. But like if I'm on the road or something in a hotel room and I got a thing and I got to get the iron, there's something about it. My mom did teach me how to iron. She really did. She was great about that. So I know my way around that. And that's super fun. But yeah,
What a great question. I love that. Thanks for asking. I hope that was a good answer. I hope the answer was as interesting as the question. More to come next week, as usual. And I will see you then on Literally. You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Nick Liao, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar, research by Alyssa Grawl, editing by Jerron Ferguson, engineering and mixing by Rich Garcia.
Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd, music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe.
At Ashley, you'll find colorful furniture that brings your home to life. Ashley makes it easier than ever to express your personal style with an array of looks in fun trending hues to choose from, from earth tones to vibrant colors to calming blues and greens. Ashley has pieces for every room in the house in the season's most sought after shades. A more colorful life starts at Ashley. Shop in store online today. Ashley, for the love of home.
All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪
Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.
