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All right, welcome to the Jason and the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz and really excited for this week's guest. Somebody you probably know, have seen on Fox and Friends. He's the host of Fox and Friends Weekend. And if you, you know, if you're out on the West Coast, you don't necessarily see Fox and Friends Weekend as much as others, but you've seen them all over the network. You see them on The Five, you see them guest hosting.
A big part of the future of Fox News and just an all-around great guy. But Pete Hegseth, who has served a number of years in the United States military, he's written this new book. It's called The War on Warriors, Behind the Betrayal of the Men Who Keep Us Free. And...
Really going to be an interesting book. Great timing in terms of Father's Day and everything else. But it's a really important topic because we only have one military and we got to get it right. And it just seems like the political correctness has overtaken our need and necessity to have the biggest, baddest fighting force on the face of the planet that can fight on multiple fronts and win every time.
The idea that we would even have a close fight is not something I think we can ever live with as the United States of America. If we're going to be the world's superpower, let's be the world's superpower. And that's on all fronts. That includes the military, of course, financially and everything else. But Pete's lived it, seen it.
and continues to talk to those warriors who are involved and engaged. And we're going to have a little discussion about what's going wrong, what's happening with our United States military. And I think that's a very worthy topic. Got a couple of comments on the news. And then we're going to highlight the stupid because as we like to say,
There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. All right, let's jump into the news here. You got a lot of Biden news in terms of his mental capacity, his ability to make his way to a chair at an event.
Those stories will continue. He's just getting older. He's more feeble. The cognitive decline is palpable. It's there for us to all see. Despite the spin that tries to come out of the White House, we can all see it and feel it. You can't just hide it.
But that aside, you know, you have Hunter Biden going through this gun charge. You have the tax issue that's coming up. Let's everybody be aware. The special treatment, when you had the IRS whistleblowers step forward and tell us that they were not allowed to fully pursue their case.
It still bothers me to no end that, you know, you hear a lot from the left and from the Democrats and from the White House saying, oh, nobody's above the law. Nobody's above the law. Well, then why was so much pressure put on these whistleblowers? These are career IRS employees, nonpartisan people that there's not Republican shills somewhere who testified that they weren't allowed to do their job.
because there were Bidens involved. Couldn't follow the money trail, couldn't follow the witnesses, couldn't interview people when they wanted to in the tactics and the ways that the IRS does. They were treated differently. Statutes of limitations were allowed to expire. It
This is a big story, and it's not about just the salacious nature of Hunter Biden. This is about Joe Biden and the family business. And this story will continue. Whether or not he wins the election, loses the election, this is a story that needs to continue to be pursued. Because you're talking about millions and millions of dollars lost.
and you can't have tax cheats. And yet you have Joe Biden talking about everybody's got to pay their fair share and everybody's got to pay their taxes. And then ends up that the Bidens may have been scoffing at that, trying to strike a sweetheart deal with the Department of Justice, and suddenly they're not so friendly to that. So I just think we have to do that, have to continue to pursue that. The other thing that I think is a big story that needs to be pursued is
is why won't the Department of Justice release the videotape and audio tape of Joe Biden in his interview with Special Prosecutor Herr? Now, this story goes back a couple months because you had the special prosecutor essentially say, we weren't going to prosecute this because Joe Biden would be sympathetic. And quite frankly, he's having these cognitive issues.
He had trouble remembering basic facts and whatnot. Now, if you recall, other presidents and other people have gone through some different interviews and whatnot. Think of what went through with Bill Clinton, right? He had to sit through these depositions, be interviewed about the whole Monica Lewinsky affair and all that. But we ultimately saw a videotape of him sitting there with that Diet Coke and answering questions and
There is no reason why this tape should not be released, especially now since the Department of Justice has told people, has indicated that they have altered the transcript. Now, they say they just took out ums and ahs, but as somebody who is the former chairman of the Oversight Committee, I'm just telling you, you can't believe them. You can't trust them.
Trust but verify. Let us hear it and see it with our own eyes. And the White House is totally denying that Joe Biden was feeble and unable to answer basic facts. Let the American people be the ones to make that decision. There's an interesting lawsuit out there. It's Judicial Watch and CNN. The three of them joined together to try to force, through a Freedom of Information Act request, to get this tape.
But the White House not only is pushing back, but they're claiming executive privilege. And for those of you that don't follow this maybe as closely, executive privilege means that the president was personally involved. Well, of course he was involved. He's the subject of the interview.
But nobody is suggesting that there is classified information that is in these depositions or in these tapes. There's nobody that says that there's secret information that, you know, if it got in the hands of the Chinese or the Russians, it would harm national security. No, that wasn't the subject of the interviews. So you don't have executive privilege, I think, that can be invoked.
But for them to say, we're going to claim executive privilege, you can't claim that there was classified information. So something else to be watched. And the other thing is, really looking forward to the debate on June 27th. Mark your calendar. That's a big one. June 27th, Biden versus Trump on stage together. I hope it happens. I'm skeptical still, but I want to see that. All right, time to bring on the stupid, because as you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere.
All right, we got a few candidates here. California, the Chipotle in Vallejo, California. Evidently, there's video of these. And again, I go to some big sources like thesmokinggun.com.
And I think I saw this also on Fox, but some bystanders attacking store employees. They essentially got in a massive food fight, but it was a little more aggressive than just throwing French fries and nuggets at each other. Come on, folks. If you're at the Chipotle, I don't know what the issue is, but do you really need to do it while they're trying to get you that salad bowl? But these three women attacking at that point.
It's just crazy. It's just stupid. And then this one I saw again at the smoking gun. Henry Earl passed away. Now, according to them, he had through his life more than 1,500 arrests.
Now, imagine the resources that it takes and all the wrongdoing that you're engaged with. He ended up spending some more than 6,000 days behind bars.
Well, he just passed away. He was 74 years old. He was there in Owenton, Kentucky, about 50 miles from Lexington, Kentucky. That's the general area where he racked up the majority of these crimes. But, I mean, from a very early age, he started doing a lot of things. 1,500 arrests. That's...
unbelievable, incredibly stupid stuff. And he just passed away. Henry Earl. That's the allegation in the smoking gun. All right, time to move on with my conversation with Pete Hegseth. Let's just dial up Pete, get on the phone, and let's talk to him about the war on warriors behind the betrayal of the men who keep us free. Yo, Jason.
Pete, thanks so much for joining me on the Jason in the House podcast. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. It's always good to chat with you. It's funny. I bump into people. They're always happy. Got a smile on their face. You're one of those guys. It's amazing. Well, yeah, we try, man. Here's what I realized. It's not a real job. We get the opportunity. Wait, wait. Don't let that.
Don't tell the world it's not a real job. Not a real job. I mean, when you talk for a living, I mean, you actually had a real job. Being in the house, you represent constituents. You have to answer their inquiries. You have to help them out. You're working. I just put on makeup and talk on TV, so I can't complain. Well,
Yeah, I use a little powder here and there, too. But you did the real thing, though. You served our nation. And I'm not talking about Fox and Friends weekend. I'm talking about going over, putting on the uniform, putting that flag on your... Wearing the flag, waving the flag. And congratulations. You got another book out, a new one, and it is just...
It's just rocking. Now, honestly, I haven't read it yet, but The War on Warriors Behind the Betrayal of the Men Who Keep Us Free. Congratulations on doing that. And thank you for doing it. Well, thanks, Jason. Writing that book took me back to when I did have a real job. And with so many, the best of the best, so many great Americans, I got...
Forget the degrees we get from colleges. The real degree I got in life was from the University of Samara, the University of Baghdad with the 101st Airborne. Just knowing those guys, being forged with those guys, is the honor of my life. And so...
Writing this book did include going back to some of those moments in my own mind, and I do tell some stories in there of my own combat time. But it was... It felt like the right time given the state of the institution of the military. And when something like that is given you so much and you're so proud of that commitment and the institution, and then you see it going sideways, I just feel like...
It's my responsibility, our generation's responsibility to raise our hand again and speak up because now we're at the point, you know, all of us would be at the point where we're going to have kids looking up at us like, hey, dad, do you think I should serve or would you want me to serve? And how do you answer that question? And a lot of vets are grappling with that right now.
Well, let's go back. I want to get to the heart of the book, and because it is just so sad to see these homeless vets, vets dealing with mental health issues, you know, people who stepped up and did serve and went into harm's way, and it just...
drives me crazy to know and how mistreated they are compared to say, oh, I don't know, somebody who came across the border illegally and won special privileges. But let's go back to your service because, you know, I hear these stories here and there and rock us back again to, you know, when did you make that decision? Hey, you know what? I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to join the military. Yeah, it was before 9-11, Jason. It was
It was, you know, probably when I was 16, 17, you know, it was the combination of Memorial Day parades, Fourth of July parades, being in a patriotic community, looking up to the vets in our town, in my parents' hometown, and
and i remember just kind of thinking man they did something special i i'm not from a military family it didn't really have any relatives that were in the military and so but i just saw them and i said man they that's legit you know i and and people really appreciate what they did and if if i get the chance someday i think i i think i should do that like that that was really it and i got into west point and oh wait wait wait hold on hold on i want to go back for a second
That degree of thankfulness, but also the desire to compete. Like, I know you were an athlete. I know you played a lot of basketball. There's, you know, that type of thing. But...
Was there a movie that you watched? I mean, where did that patriotism come from other than a family who just kind of lives it day to day and going to schools once upon a time where we used to actually say the Pledge of Allegiance on a daily basis, things like that. Where did that...
Where did that come from? Because this is in Minnesota, right? Yep. This is in small-town Minnesota. You know, the parades I mentioned were in an even smaller town in Minnesota, in southern Minnesota, a town called Wanamingo. It's like 400 people. You blink and you miss it. And, you know, the Memorial Day parade, Jason, is like it's like the sheriff, the one fire truck, the high school band, and then like
a dozen vets. You know what I mean? Like, that's the parade. Yeah, and the local eye care center. Yeah, somebody with a pickup truck. And
But yet the reverence that, I mean, everyone came out and everyone's waving flags and everyone's appreciative. And then, you know, we go down to Memorial Park because Memorial Day Parade is not about the vets. It's about the ones that aren't there. And I just, I really don't think I could point to a moment and I don't necessarily think I can point to a movie. Now, later on, one of my buddies I served with
used to call it the state and private Ryan effect because you know every time you watch that movie you're like yeah I'll do another deployment you know it's like there are things that definitely motivate you and I'm sure they're up to think back on if there was a film that did that Rambo or I don't know but
It just kind of added up. And yes, basketball was my whole life. You know how that, I mean, my dad was a basketball coach. It's all I cared about. I mentioned West Point. I got in. I got into Princeton also. And I went to visit those two schools. And I ultimately decided on Princeton. You know why? Because they had a better basketball team, Jason. Yeah.
That was it. That's the 18-year-old mind making decisions. That is the 18-year-old mind right there. But what I also knew is that they had an ROTC program. And so, hey, if I wanted to do that, I still can. And so I went and I was, again, all basketball all the way, but it was always in the back of my mind. And after my freshman year,
I just thought, you know what? I want to check this out. So I went and talked to the cadre there at Princeton, and they were welcoming. And I did a three-year scholarship, ROTC scholarship, and that was that. And then I got trained up, you know how ROTC goes, and I became an intraman and off to Fort Benning, which is now called Fort Moore, which is so ridiculous, but whatever. And it just...
So I actually joined right before 9-11. It would have been April of 2001 or May of 2001 with a National Guard contract. And then 9-11 happened. It was like, oh, well, that was the right decision. And there we were off to the races.
And so you were – remind me your deployment, where you went, what you did. Yeah. So I was in the – I came out of college, did my infantry training, went to work at Bear Stearns, may it rest in peace, in 2004, and then was almost immediately mobilized with my New Jersey National Guard Army unit. And we did a year at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba as –
basically prison guards or guards at the facility there when it was at its height. There were about 700 detainees at that time. And I was a platoon leader in charge of 40 guys. It was the longest year of my life, Jason, because it was...
that you know it was an important mission but the threat level was low and we were not the guards walking the blocks that was military policemen from another unit we were doing the towers on the prisons the gates the checkpoints we had mobile patrols around the area we had the quick reaction force into the camp and so for a year we did night shifts and day shifts and night shifts and day shifts and i was managing you know young young men and men a lot older than me
uh who could also drink beer because you normally can't drink beer but you could hear because it wasn't considered a combat zone uh so did that for a year came back thought i would want to wanted to work again in new york and then quickly realized no there's a shooting war and i could it was one of those those urgings against like i i'm trained i'm qualified i need to be there and so i was able to long story short volunteer and get into 101st airborne and join uh them on their deployment to iraq and i was so i was activated for a year
Went to Iraq from 2005 to 2006, right before the surge when a lot of the sectarian violence started. And then I worked for an outside advocacy vets group. When did you get into Congress, Jason? What year? I was elected in 2008.
2008. So we, in 2008, was kind of the first election year I was ever involved in. And we had a little pack and we were helping vets candidates in 2007 and 2008. And then we ultimately were very supportive of John McCain's presidential campaign. You remember he had the No Surrender Tour and the We're Going to Support Petraeus and the Surge. That was my political baptism. I was on Capitol Hill all the time. Hearings and touring and speeches and TV and
I kind of learned about advocacy, but it was all about supporting the troops. And then I went to grad school and then I deployed to Afghanistan for a year. So it was Gitmo 04-05, Iraq 05-06, and Afghanistan in 2011-2012. And then what you'll learn in the book is I got out for about five years, but then I got back in because I had the itch to kind of still be serving. And I landed in a roundabout way in the Washington, D.C. National Guard.
where I found myself holding a riot shield outside the White House during the George Floyd riots outside of Lafayette Square as a major in front of Antifa and BLM riots. Did that and then... The mostly peaceful riots.
Mostly peaceful, right? Mostly peaceful protests. That's why you needed a combat shield, yeah. Where they threw bricks and piss bottles at us, you know, like wonderful, delightful people. And then ultimately January 6th happened and then the book sort of
The reason the back of the book says, it says I joined to fight extremists and then the military called me one, is because I was supposed to have orders to go defend the inauguration of Joe Biden. You know, I'd served under Bush, I'd served under Obama, under Trump, and I didn't like Biden, but, you know, you do your job. And a day before I was supposed to go to Washington, I got a call from my unit and they told me to stand down. You're not needed. And you remember that time, Jason, 2020? Like,
everyone from the DC National Guard was on duty. Everyone from surrounding states was on duty. And it was made clear to me, you're not coming. And they wouldn't tell me why. Well, you know, when I wrote the book, I reached back out and got a hold of one of the commanders who was able to
confidentially tell me, hey, I know with 100% certainty it was because they deemed you a white nationalist, an extremist, because of a tattoo on your chest. It's a Jerusalem cross. It's a Christian symbol. There's nothing white nationalist about it. But they were looking for an excuse to disinvite me. And so...
They revoked my orders and I resigned and I got out. But it was not the way you want to end your time in service. Right, right. I think kind of emblematic of the political shift. Like, there was no politics at all. I didn't sign up because of politics. I didn't know anything about politics. I mean, my parents weren't political. I don't know. We grew up in a traditional Christian patriotic home and we didn't really talk that much about politics. Right.
And certainly I got interested later on, but to then be singled out later is frustrating. And the military is the one institution where it can't be Republican or Democrat. It's got to be for the Constitution, and we're getting away from that. Yeah, getting away from that is an understatement. I know you know him. I've spent some good time with him, but Rob O'Neill, the...
The SEAL team member was involved and engaged in taking out Osama bin Laden. I watch his tweets and what he says, and he said something a little while ago that I think, and you're much closer to it than I am, but he said, you know, we spend more time trying to figure out who's going to go to what bathroom than we do on how to defend the United States and fight on two fronts, right? I mean, the wokeness, I mean, it's just crazy.
What does the average person do? I mean, the people that are patriotic, they do care about their country. Maybe they served, maybe they didn't serve. They still love their country. They love their military. They appreciate the service.
What can they do about this, Pete? Well, that's kind of what I'm trying... That's the pickle of this issue, is that if you didn't serve, it's not... I don't begrudge that anybody. What I'm saying is that it's hard to make the criticism as robustly as, you know, it's like if there's a broken down school system, like a former school teacher can make an indictment the way a layperson cannot, or if the church goes awry, it just is what it is. Right.
And so having seen it, I feel like it makes it even more my responsibility to speak up very loudly and say this can't stand. Because otherwise this big bureaucratic institution, which you're quite familiar with, you're a part of overseeing all that.
it feeds off of the ignorance of the public. And the public has so much faith in the institution, and rightfully so, for the built-up cache of credibility that it has, that it's not used to criticism, at least of this generation. I mean, it's used to criticism in like, did the wars, how did the wars come out? I get that. But as far as the institution itself, it's been able to say, be insulated from that. And so I'm trying to strike the balance of
saying, "I love this institution, but here's how dysfunctional it is." And I try to help folks at the end of the book with a letter I wrote to my sons, which is the epilogue to the book, to kind of help them wrap their brains around whether or not they would want their own kids to consider military service. And I wasn't sure where I was going to come out on it when I started writing the book, so I waited until the end.
Because we're still, to your point, Jason, we're going to need patriots joining the ranks of the military. Like, this issue is different than education. Or, you know, you can move away from your school if you don't like the school. And if you really don't like the income taxes in Utah or Minnesota, you can move to Florida or Tennessee. And you can change. You can't move away from the military. We've only got one. You can maybe choose between the branches.
And the Marine Corps, as a matter of fact, does a better job on this stuff than the other services. So I would encourage people to look at the Marine Corps. But we've got one, and it needs to be – patriots need to keep being willing to join it. And that's my takeaway, even if it's imperfect. So Trump's got a huge job on his hands when he wins, and the Pentagon has to be in his crosshairs. So the book is The War on Warriors. Yes.
I really do believe, I mean, that's just the heart of where I focused my congressional service was you better shine sunlight on this stuff. Otherwise, you're never, that's the first step. You've got to illuminate it in order to figure out what's wrong and then how to fix it. And it's up to all of us to help fix it. Not just, you know, some elected officials who are, you know, overwhelmed by the bureaucracy and
and the behemoth of a four-plus-trillion-dollar budget. But tell us, what were you seeing? I take it that in this book, there are some prime examples of how...
they're fighting against the warriors and the betrayal that's happening. Help me understand what people are going to read about or listen to. That's the right question. And I love how you come at this. You come at this as a former chairman of the House Oversight Committee. Like, your job is to look at these issues, pick them apart, illuminate them so average people can understand what's happening, and then hopefully galvanize some support for some action to do something about it. So I kind of observed it
Obviously the things that happened to me happened to me, but that wasn't the reason why I wrote the book. It was the instances, small and large, that I had seen that fellow, the guys I'd served with have observed and shared with me cumulatively over the years.
where it started to realize this is more than a unit-level thing. This is an army-wide thing. And it was even before 2020. But then you had 2020 and Mark Milley on Capitol Hill saying, I want to understand white rage.
And then you had the extremism stand down of the military from Lloyd Austin. And you had the extremism working group. And now, you know, documents are being leaked from DARPA. They're, they're, they're creating new categories of extremism called Patriot extremism. You know, I'm hearing stories of guys are told to take their bumper stickers of the Gadsden flag off their cars on post because it's not allowed anymore. You know, the old don't tread on me. You just start to hear stories. And I,
One of the wonderful things, you know it from being in Congress and being on TV, is that you start to build a network of sort of informal advisors, of people that just see things and they relay them to you and they're your eyes and ears. And as one of a few vets that are on TV,
I've sort of accumulated that over the years, of guys I've served with, but also just other people who sent text, email, call, message, whatever, stuff. And it just started to add up, and I'm going, this is not good. This is really... And I wrote the book on K-12 education recently,
which was about the 100-year takeover of education. That's a long time span where it took over. This was happening quickly in real time. So I felt like writing the book, it was writing itself in real time, and there had to be a point where I kind of stopped it and said, okay, enough with the examples. I can't, I can't, I got to submit this to the publisher. But I also, Jason, you know, I work the weekend show.
So I treat Saturdays these days as a work day. I just – I sit in my office and Will Kane makes fun of me and says I do my TPS reports and whatever I'm doing. But I'm chopping away at my laptop. But what I did for months was I just scheduled up my afternoon with phone calls with – guys would connect to the other guys, would connect to the other guys.
And I would interview mostly active duty, so they had to talk off the record and not name to the book, but just sharing anecdotes of what they're seeing inside their unit. This is what my commander did. This is what I had to do. This is the briefing I had to give. This is what this soldier refused to do, and I couldn't do anything about it. And it just added up and added up and added up. And that's... So when I released the book...
I already knew what the response was going to be from vets because I talked to so many of them. It's almost like an investigative reporter. Like, I know this to be true because I've heard from everyone. So it was a clamoring. And these guys are on fire to talk to me. They're like, oh, man, I got to tell you. And you got to talk to this. You got to talk to this guy at Ranger School. And they all sang the same tune of we're walking on eggshells. There's no. What's the genesis of that? Like where?
Where did this creep up on us? You had the battles over Don't Ask, Don't Tell after Clinton that sort of moved into Obama. But the genesis of it, in my opinion, of where the military started to stay, you know what, we're going to ignore meritocracy and lethality and we're going to bow to political prerogatives. I feel like, and there were other signs earlier, no doubt, but I feel like the big moment was women in combat.
I think it was at the end of Obama when they decided, you know, Ash Carter and Barack Obama and others, they decided that women were going to be in all combat units. And it was the Army and the Air Force just basically caved. Okay, they were like, they just cried uncle and said, whatever you want, you know. So they're the worst. At least the Marine Corps fought back.
And they did a study where they did 400 male Marines versus 300 male Marines with 100 female Marines. And they did it in training and everything for months and months. And the study came back, and it was crystal clear. Like the all-male units smoked the integrated male-female units across the board. And they submit this report, and the Navy Secretary Ray Mabus gets it, and he throws it in the garbage. And they say, we don't care.
we're having women in all combat positions. And so when you have such a blatant demonstration of, you know, we're going to ignore physical biology, which is really important when it comes to the battlefield, and just say, no, we're doing it because politics or because progress, that cracks the door open for every other political prerogative.
So then pretty soon you get the trans stuff on the heels of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And I interviewed one of the guys involved in pushing to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell. He was a gay soldier, wanted to serve openly, and he's resentful about it now because he felt like he was used
he wanted to just serve openly, but what the radicals wanted to do was to get to the trans stuff. And they just went right past that into, into trans. And then you, and then the CE, uh, the DEICRT stuff is probably the most dangerous right now because it's, it's being taught, you know, in, in, in,
inside units and at West Point in Annapolis and it's becoming the framework through which commanders are asking subordinates to consider who gets what positions. Well, you know how much animosity that kind of stuff breeds. Did I get it because I'm white? Because I'm black? Because I'm this? And so...
when I say eggshells, it's well, I can't make, if I enforce this grooming standard or this, you know, he didn't salute or he didn't, she didn't say ma'am or sir. Am I doing it? Am I enforcing it or not enforcing it because they're black or because they're white or because they're Hispanic? It's just, everyone's going, what? So everything's upside down. And that's one thing when you're grading papers at Harvard. It's another thing when you're asking kids to, you know, we're in the shadow of
D-Day. Like, charge a bunker. Like, none of that crap matters. And so, as it proliferates wider and wider into the military, it just...
Guys that got in to just do the real deal, they look around and go, this stinks. I'm out. And so you get your best decide to leave. So it's not just a recruiting issue. It's we're bleeding the middle managers, you know, your colonels, your lieutenant colonels, your E7s that are the backbone of units because they don't want to play the political game. And they see the guys at the top, the brass, who are happy to –
push the latest climate crap to these units and they're like, why do I, I don't care if my tank is electric, but you do, you know, and we're out. So it's, it's, it's made its way into the DNA of units and that's what needs to get ripped out.
No, well said. And that, you know, I look at the recruitment challenges. I mean, it is really bad how far down the numbers are in terms of recruitment. But, you know, when I look at what the military is proposing, it's like, well, let's lessen the standards. Let's raise the bar. Let's not demand more. Let's...
let's lessen the standards where you can pretty much, you know, don't do a pushup or a sit up and you're going to be fine. Like this is the military folks. This is not, this is, this is the United States military. You're going to have to do some sit ups and you're going to be able to have to run. I mean, how do we solve this? How do we like, it's a tall question, but,
Yeah, but it's the question of the book. Yeah, you're right. So the military has responded by lowering standards. Like now you don't need a high school degree. You can get, you know, some equivalent eventually and you can be a fat body and you can still join. I mean, it's just it's because they're there. That part is a mess is an absolute mess. And they're meeting. This is only just the beginning of the recruiting problems are going to have because we're just starting to see the hangover of vets.
telling their sons or daughters not to serve. And a lot of those kids are not yet of serving age like mine. Like I was in the wars and I saw it. And now I have kids that would follow in my footsteps. And if I decide to tell them no and they don't, that's when you get an even bigger gap than we have right now. Because the military in large part is a family business. Like, you know, generations do it probably together, just like cops and firefighters.
But the nice thing about the Pentagon is it's a top-down organization. Now, you have to make sure your orders are followed through on. There's no doubt about that. But it is an institution that's supposed to be premised on meritocracy and integrity and accountability. Well, accountability. We can talk about Afghanistan. That's been devastating for the reputation of the military, too. Just devastating the way we were treated there. Yeah.
But it starts with the Commander-in-Chief. Donald Trump will need to come in, bring in a badass Secretary of Defense that doesn't apologize, that isn't afraid, that knows how this stuff works.
Fire C.Q. Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Bring in a new chairman of the Joint Chiefs. All the other chairmen are likely complicit in what's been going on as well. Clean house. And then a couple of other strategic firings of three or four-star generals or admirals who are really involved in pushing the CRT woke crap. You just fire them. Or you force them to resign or retire early. And then you outlaw. You basically...
the military is the executive branch. The commander in chief has a lot of power. So you can, you can effectively say we're not doing CRT or DEI anymore. All the CRT and DEI advisors at the brigade and battalion level are fired. Um, go look for another job. And then you ban that kind of teaching as well at West point. And then what I,
My view is, I don't know what year I would peg it to, but I would say standards, whatever the combat standards were for Ranger School and Airborne School and Marine Corps basic training in 1995,
Let's go back to that. Okay? Those are the standards. So it's a kind of institution. And I think if you did that, and then the last one is, Jason, let's also go back to whatever recruiting ads we were running in 1995. Yeah. It was cool. That's right. You wanted to be that guy. So if you did all of that, Jason, you could imagine...
a pretty quick turnaround in a renaissance within the military. Now, you know what the media's gonna say. I mean, they're gonna say, "MAGA purge, like troops, Trump's bringing in his shots." - White supremacy. - White supremacists are in charge. You're gonna hear it all. You just gotta have the guts to ignore it and just say, "Hey, no, our fidelity is to the Constitution. Racism's been illegal in the military since 1950, and it's still illegal today."
And when you said there was systemic racism in the military, you were lying. And here's the study, because the military is exponentially less racist than the general population because it's in the DNA to ignore skin color. So sit down and we're going to fix our own institution. It's different than education that way or it's different than other. It's large, but it's more manageable.
You know, when I was chairman of the oversight committee, we were looking at some atrocities that were happening in Afghanistan and it was horrific. I don't have time to go through the whole story, but I remember somebody, because I didn't serve, and I'm thankful to you and the men and women who have and are serving. I mean, I'm just from the bottom of my heart thankful for that. My father served in the Air Force. My father-in-law served in the Army and just so grateful for their service as well.
But I remember I was looking at this situation and it was horrific. And we had three, they were either colonels or lieutenant colonels that finally made their way to me as the chairman of the oversight committee. And I remember somebody advising me and they saying, because the criticism was of a three-star general.
And somebody advised me, they said, listen, if you want to get to the heart and soul of who actually is on the ground making decisions, making things happen, it's colonels and lieutenant colonels. And I kind of left with the impression because this guy actually lost a star over this when we worked all the way through it.
He was demoted from a three-star to a two-star and essentially retired. That'll end his career, yeah. Yeah, and it was just sad because it didn't need to happen. And he was trying to be too political. Not to disparage people who have stars on their shoulders because they've earned those, but I did kind of feel like, gosh, you're kind of also a...
maybe more than the politics. And I can see where if you have a commander-in-chief like a Barack Obama and then a Joe Biden who...
you know, is just letting the far crazy progressiveness seep its way into the military, then guess what? This is what you get. These are the types of policies that you're getting because everybody's just going to want to please as opposed to, look, we have to do something simple. We have to be able to fight and win wars.
That's what we need to do. It's not, let's see how green we can go, and let's see how politically correct we can be. Sure. I mean, that's very well said, and that is spot-on correct. And, you know, I use a lot of colorful language in the book to describe members of our community. Pete, except using colorful language? Come on. Yes. I mean, the most benign of which is cowards and camouflaged. Right.
These generals who, and a lot of these guys, and Mark Milley's an example, but he's not the only one, but he's the one. The guys that knew him or knew them when they were captains or lieutenant colonels or colonels, love him. They're like, he's a badass dude. He did real stuff. And suddenly you get to that three or four star level and you've reached the pinnacle and they...
They feel like once they're there, the last thing they're going to do is basically risk their career by taking a stance that the way to get promoted is to get along and go along and not cause waves.
That's okay when you've got great civilian leadership. But when you have civilian leadership who's pushing Marxist crap into your ranks or stuff that's clearly not going to make you more combat effective, this is why you got promoted. So think of Captain Milley or Lieutenant Sullivan Smith.
That's if you if he had known he's going to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs someday, he would be clamoring for you to take that stand for the warfighter right now. And they haven't and they won't and they don't. And they justify it by saying, well, I'm here. I'll I'll make it less bad and I'll help you.
professionalize the force even though there are enduring challenges and they just talk the mealy mouth crap they ignore what they once understood because it is very political and so careerism is another word i heard a lot of when talking to everybody
It's true, because if you behave as a two- or three- or four-star general, then you will get a comfy spot on a defense contractor board in the future, and you keep the feedback loop going, and life is good. But if you speak up or throw your stars on the table or retire, you're not invited to the cool kids club the way that everybody else is. No, this is what I admired, the three lieutenant colonels that came to testify. They were
They testified publicly. And that was... I thought, these guys are brave because they are throwing their career into the wind.
And they will not, that will not be forgotten. We talk a lot about never forget. They're not going to be, but they were doing what they knew in their heart was the right thing. And for the three of them to sit shoulder to shoulder and testify publicly in front of Congress about some of these atrocities that were happening in Afghanistan, that was seriously devastating. And then, you know, this is my own personal impression, okay?
I want to be careful with this, but General Ham, who was in charge of AFRICOM, when the whole Benghazi thing went, I was the first and only member of Congress at the time to go to Libya, and I went with General Ham. But to try to extract from him what really went down and didn't go down,
I just felt like my impression at the end of the day was, this is a politician who doesn't want to blow it because he's going to probably retire soon. And he wants his cushy six-figure contract in the private sector. And if he really lets loose and really lets me know what's happening...
He's probably not going to get that. And I think that pressure was looming over him. And I think that's why he was so resistant and wouldn't cough up the facts. And it slowed us way down. And it's sad that we never fully got the truth out of that.
Absolutely. I just looked it up real quick while you were talking. And, you know, what did he do afterwards? He went and headed up AUSA, which, you know, I'm sure he made. He was the CEO of AUSA, so he made tons of money for, you know, this military-friendly association. It's just, and take Afghanistan as just a great example. Great, and you referenced it already with Lieutenant Colonel and Colonels. I mean, if I lost my rifle, if I lost my rifle,
I would be demoted, fined, you know, knocked down, right? Whatever. And my career could be actually over if I'm a lieutenant or if I'm losing my sensitive equipment. And we lost tens of thousands of vehicles and hundreds of thousands of rifles and left them behind. Helicopters, sensitive biometric equipment, like every, I mean, massive artillery pieces.
And no one was... But that was done consciously, right? I mean, that's the commander-in-chief. Not to mention 13 dead Americans. Yeah, that was based on the advice, apparently. And there's conflicting reports about who recommended what, right? Because no one wants to own the embarrassment of what happened. And so the military leaders said, well, we tried to tell them they need to leave some people behind. Right, right. White House says no...
Instead of any one of them saying, you know what, I can't be a part of this and my resignation is going to tell the nation that
this is not befitting the sacrifice of America. Just something. There's one guy held accountable for that, and his name's Stu Scheller. He's a Marine Corps lieutenant colonel who actually spoke up, and they fried him for it. And so there's a deficit of courage at the top because it gets very political, and right now it's super political because wartime is over, tinkering begins, and the radical left controls the White House. And at this point, Jason,
Obama was very intentional about seeding key positions inside the Pentagon with loyalists. And over time, those loyalists bred other loyalists, and they kept their head down during the Trump administration in many ways. Or they actively worked against him, as we saw Milley toward the end. And now they're on hyperspeed in putting things into, you know, you've got the head of the
of education, the DOD schools pushing this really radical left-wing CRT stuff into DOD elementary and middle schools. Like they're, they're all, they're all in. You're listening to Jason in the house. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Pete Hague, Seth, right
right after this.
Well, you know, this is why your book is so timely. Again, the book is The War on Warriors Behind the Betrayal of the Men Who Keep Us Free. Pete, thanks for writing the book because I think people know that this stuff's happening, but they want to see it in black and white. I don't know if you did the audio book. Did you do the audio book? I did. I did, yep. In your voice? Yeah. To be able to listen to it, to be able to read about it, I mean...
You just, two in a row here, hitting the topic right on the head. And, you know, with your kind of background, you're the perfect person to write this. So Father's Day is coming up. The War on Warriors, Behind the Betrayal of the Men Who Keep Us Free. Pete Hegsa, thanks for your service. Thanks for your friendship. And thanks for writing this book. I do appreciate it. And, of course, thanks for, you know, doing this podcast and only dropping one, you know, swear word that we'll have to bleep out.
That's amazing. I'm always thinking about it. I'm like, I think I can swear on the podcast. Have you ever sworn on air? You must have.
I think I've probably dropped like a dam or something. You know what I mean? But I'm pretty good. I know on the cable side. You mentioned the audio book though, Jason. When I was reading it, like after the first day reading it, I realized, I'm like, oh man, I swear a lot. I don't know if my pastor should read this book. Yeah.
Maybe he shouldn't listen to it. Yes, and what I wrote, exactly. And what I wrote at the end, I'm like, you know, forgive me. You can take the man out of the army, but you can't take the army out of the man. Well, I'm one that believes that authenticity wins the day.
And to have you unfiltered, just lay it out there, more power to you. I think that's why you've been so successful in everything you've done. I appreciate it, Jason. You've been a very good friend for a long time. I appreciate your service to the country continuing as well. You do great work. We love working with you. Come see us on Fox for the weekend soon.
thanks again pete hegg seth everybody i just can't thank pete enough all the men and women who serve our nation who get involved engaged protect us you maybe have maybe have family members uh who have served in the past remember them honor them thank them for their service it's hard you know i wanted to pass along to a friend who's somebody who's serving overseas in a fairly sensitive position and i said to one of their family members um you know what thank
thank you for your, please tell them how much we appreciate their service. He said, oh, it's not service, it's just my job. It's like, no, it's more than that. You put your life on the line. You put the stars and stripes on your shoulder. You're serving our nation. That's an honorable, honorable thing to do. And people ought to be thankful for that.
And when you see people in a uniform or, you know, a National Guardsman who's pulling into, you know, to a Wendy's or a Chipotle or wherever you eat, you know, you can thank them for their service too and really do appreciate them. And can't thank Pete enough for his service and writing this book.
I'd appreciate it if you could rate this podcast. That would be real helpful. Subscribe to it. You can subscribe to it. We come up with good guests every week. I want to remind people you can listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.
I'm Jason Chaffetz, host of this Jason in the House podcast. Join us next week. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you soon.
