Congressman Steve Womack & Doing Meaningful Work Out Of The Spotlight 01:00:25

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Welcome to the Jason and the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz. Really appreciate joining us. We're going to have a discussion with somebody you may not know. You may know him really well. You may be a family member, but you know what? I think you're really going to enjoy this because we're going to be talking to Steve Womack. He is the congressman from Arkansas, somebody I spent quite a bit of time with in Congress because I really did just enjoy his company. He has served a lot of

the great state of Arkansas for quite some time, served in the National Guard overseas. He's just a wonderful human being. I may disagree with him, you may disagree with him a little bit politically here and there, but not much because he's just a wonderful human being. And I think our discussion will bear that out. So I appreciate that. We're going to talk a little bit about the news. We're going to highlight the stupid because there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere.

And then we'll get right into the conversation with Congressman Steve Womack. But a couple of thoughts on the news. And I want to, you know, as you, as the news kind of,

you get to digest it more and more. You know, you react immediately. But then as the facts kind of filter out a little bit more and you get more clarity, you can see through the fog, you can see different angles a little bit better, some things become even more offensive. And that's the case with a couple of things, three things actually that I want to mention. Number one is what happened in San Francisco.

You know, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, used to be the mayor there in San Francisco. And remember how they cleaned up the streets? They as if the street sweeper went through, they got rid of the homelessness. They they cleared the streets just where the political leaders were coming. You know, the the

Xi Jinping was coming to town from China, so they had to clean that up. President Biden was going to be there. Even Gavin Newsom sort of joked about the fact that, yeah, when friends come over, you straighten up. He said something to that effect.

But I think it's even more offensive now for the longtime business owners and residents. There was a story on Fox News dot com about the den of homelessness that has returned. In many ways, it's worse.

You know, it's as if the people of California, the Americans who pay their taxes and live there and they pay a lot of taxes in California. They're just not as important to the political leaders there in California because the homelessness, the crime, the other things, it's returned full fledged as if the other event ever happened. They didn't use the.

world leaders coming to town as an excuse to make a fundamental change and then fix the problem oh no they put window dressing on it and now they've gone back to their old ways and the more I look at that I just think how sad it is I was born up in Northern California I lived there only until I was about seven but they've they've destroyed that place it's just not the happy idyllic place that I remember when I was just a little little kid

Next thing that's out there are these schools, these Ivy League schools. The more I just sit back and look and digest the idea that these leaders were given a week's notice to think about the answer about what a Jewish student or other ethnic minority might feel like on the campus of an Ivy League school and asked a simple question about genocide, right? Genocide is killing people.

If people were marching and calling for the extermination or killing of a particular ethnic group or religious group, that's unacceptable. Now, they hid behind the, oh, well, it's free speech and we have to look at the context. But you know that's inconsistent. You had Mike Pompeo, the former Secretary of State, was invited to go speak. I believe it was Harvard. And they got canceled. Why? Because he had conservative thoughts.

But this is the far beyond that and I think what's happening now is that particularly people of Jewish descent or Jewish relatives or Jewish blood, whatever you want to call it are now recognizing there is no home for them in the today's Democratic Party that the Democratic Party of old used to be able to say, hey, we're liberal. We, you know, all comers, you can say what you want to say. We're going to protect your free speech.

But now today's Democratic Party has morphed into, but only for certain protected classes. If you don't fit our mold of what we think you should look like and what you should think, then there's no home for you.

And they're actually finding more home actually with conservatives and Republicans who believe in the rule of law and want to have consistency on free speech and other things across the board. And they'll yell that, hey, Republicans and MAGA Republicans are all fascists.

quite the opposite. It's sort of projection on their way on their side to totally turn the tables. It's exactly what they're doing. If you don't meet their set of standards, then you have no place here. And unfortunately, that was on full display. You know, it's amazing. Again, the college presidents have a week to prepare. They have hours worth of questioning. And then the next day they got to come out and apologize. Like, really? You had an open book test and you couldn't pass it by answering a simple question.

if it was intimidating or harassment or pick your word about calling for the extermination of Jews and genocide. That's what it is. That's what Hitler advocated.

And you know what? If Hitler himself was on the campus, I don't think those university presidents would call him out. And that's what's just absolutely sad and devastating to so many people. All right, last one. Senator Marco Rubio, great state of Florida, called this out. You know, these advertisers have decided they want to boycott X, you know, formerly TikTok. They want to boycott them because they don't like the fact that

that Elon Musk actually wants to have openness and have a good, vibrant dialogue there on X and allow both sides to make their arguments. That's too much, or they get so triggered by that that they decided, "Hey, we're going to not advertise on X, like Disney, but they're going to go ahead and advertise on TikTok, which is a Chinese propaganda machine. They'd much rather get in bed

and snuggle up with the Chinese and all the atrocities, all the human atrocities that they commit there, they'd much rather snuggle up to TikTok than they would X. I mean, that's just stunning. And I think people ought to digest that, look at that and say, really? These great American iconic companies would much rather be supportive of TikTok

what the Chinese are doing that when Elon Musk is doing with X by having both sides not be suppressed and allow their information to get out. That was Elon Musk's big crime. Nevertheless, all right, time to bring on the stupid because you know what? There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere.

All right, let's go to Seattle this time, where evidently in a middle school class, this is an ethnic studies world history class. The allegation is that these ethnic studies world history class, they were given a test, true, false. And one of the questions was, only women can get pregnant. And evidently at least one student, if not more, said no.

Only women can get pregnant. Yes. True. And they got dinged as getting the answer wrong. Are you kidding me? That's really where we're at? First of all, it's ethnic studies world history. And the question is, only women can get pregnant? And the student gets dinged for a wrong answer by saying, that is a true statement. Only women can get pregnant. You know what? Pretty stupid. Pretty stupid. I...

I just, I can't even begin to explain how idiotic this is that we're having these types of discussions and these poor students who are just trying to do things. Really? What does that have to do with the class curriculum? And sorry folks, but whoever the teacher was, uh, I think they got that one wrong.

All right, time to bring on Steve Womack. Steve Womack, just a wonderful guy. We'll go through his history, have a little discussion about his background, but he's the congressman from Arkansas. All-around good guy, served a long time in the National Guard, but served his local government. Just a wonderful family there in Arkansas. I happen to get to know the family a little bit. So let's bring on Steve Womack. Hello. Steve Womack, Jason Chaffetz.

Hey, Jace, what's going on, man? How are you? Congressman, I should be more formal with you, but you know, you and I know each other pretty well. No, if you called me Congressman, I'd wonder who you thought you were talking to. You know, one of the great joys is serving in Congress like I did is, you know, you get to meet people, interact with people that you wouldn't normally meet and interact with and get to know. I mean, you

And you were one of those guys, and consequently you ended up being one of my favorite guys there. I just think you're a rock-solid human being and a good friend, and I'm glad to have you come join us on the Jason in the House podcast. Yeah, well, I don't want this to sound like a...

like a, you know, a mutual love of bromance or whatever you call those things. But I feel very strongly the same way you felt. You know, Jason, you and I both know that up here, it can be both a lonely place, but it can also be a place where you can

have some relationships that you develop over time that you would not have otherwise had, but only made possible through your close association with colleagues. And yours, your and my relationship certainly fits into that category, because I don't think our paths would have ever crossed had this situation not been there. So I'm eternally grateful. It's been a blessing to me. It's enriched my life in a remarkable way. And

You and your family, you know, you and I have traveled together, and we've shared a lot of time together about the issues facing our country, and nothing brings people together any more than a shared belief in love of country. Well, I appreciate that. And, yeah, we won't wax on that, but – and I don't even know how we initially bumped –

Into each other other than you know, there's 200 plus Republicans and and but we weren't on any committees together Yeah, but I I do remember I well I remember one of the things that brought us together if not originally but certainly one of the things up front was you and I Were engaged in an issue that eventually was settled by the Supreme Court of the United States regarding

what we called at the time, e-fairness. Yeah, yeah. That whole... And I was carrying the bill and that you were moving into chairman of judiciary and I needed somebody's help in that regard and you became...

kind of my go-to guy and I think you picked up the legislation from there it changed its name along the way but it was all about fairness in retail sales and um yeah like I say the Supreme Court fixed it but you and I conspired on the legislation that we were trying to move through that would have done that um if the Supreme Court had not been successful in its deliberations

Well, and I also remember I went on a CODEL, which is a congressional delegation trip. And this particular one had some, let's say, some very sensitive parts to it where there's highly classified. And it was me traveling just with one staffer and then somebody from the Navy, the United States Navy as a liaison there.

When you travel overseas like that, you usually have one of the branches of the military escort you and take you through and help you with all the logistics of travel and security and getting in and out of country and whatnot. And I went to a place there down in Egypt and I walk into this – and I can't remember the exact name of it, but I walk into the building.

And kind of the reception and, you know, instantly kind of look up on the wall of people that have helped command that post. And there's your picture. And it was right there. And I was highly impressed. Well, you know, that was about seven or eight months of deployment in the southern tip of the Sinai Peninsula at a place called Sharm el-Sheikh. Yes, Sharm el-Sheikh. South Camp is where the U.S.

battalions located. By the way, the headquarters of the force now is down there. They made some changes, but I had the pleasure and the, I say the pleasure, the duty and the pleasure after 9-11 to take my battalion to that area where we did the observe and report mission of the multinational force and observers.

And I commanded that post. And, and of course they have my picture up there as a past commander and you got to see it. I remember you sending it to me thinking, do you know this guy? And my hair was a little bit darker at the time, not as many wrinkles. And that was, that was a big part of my life. Well, let's go back on that because you've served your country, you served your state, you served the, I mean, you've, you've,

You've done so many things, and you've been serving in Congress, and you play a pivotal role in so many aspects of getting things done behind the scenes. That's what I've always appreciated. But you really, in your heart of hearts, do want to do what's right for the country and get things done. And there's always craziness going on all the time. We have a segment of the podcast. There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. But let's go back. Go back to...

And by the way, one of the other things I've gotten to know, I got to know along the way was your father. And he even did his radio show back in there. But I want to go back to I was born in and then kind of walk us through, you know, what life was like, where you were born, where, you know, how you became you essentially. Real easy. So I was born February 18th, 1957 on the exact same day.

that Vanna White was born now I I've never met Vanna but she and I are the same age okay exactly uh by the way she's done a little better over time than I have uh but that's another story uh Russellville Arkansas uh St Mary's Hospital still standing today out on West Main Street

And right after I was born, my family, my dad was a he was a radio guy. Still is. He's 89, by the way, Jason. That's great. Moved to Missouri. So I was an infant born at Russellville, moved up to Missouri, lived for about five years in Higginsville, Missouri, northwest part of the state. Then moved.

When I was five, at kindergarten age, my family relocated to Moberly, Missouri, north central Missouri, just north of Columbia, where my dad became the sales manager at the radio station there. And he was the broadcast voice of the junior college basketball team, the Greyhounds. And I went K through 10 in Moberly. And in 1973, when I was 16, I was in the

My dad and his boss got crossways over, of all things, his military service. That was before Yassara and all of the other protective legislation. And he told my dad, you're either going to have to get out of the Guard or

or you're going to have to do something else with your life. And dad was not going to quit the guard. He had 18 years. He didn't want to lose his retirement. Wow. Yeah. So he left the broadcast business there, and he took us back home to Russellville. So we relocated to Russellville my junior year in high school. I played sports.

And, uh, and you know, I is we're in the summer and it's in August and two days have already started. You're an old football player. Um, and, and I decided because it was a new change of scenery and all that, I just, you know, probably wasn't going to play it, which was breaking my heart. And I was at my grandmother's house, uh, out on the lake, Lake Dardanelle, uh, on a

August afternoon, and the phone rang, and it was the football coach at Russellville.

And he said, hey, let me introduce myself. I'm the football coach, Lewis McCollum. And I understand you've just moved down here from Missouri and you play football. And I said, well, yes, sir. And he says, well, why aren't you out here? How big is this school? How big is this place? It was a triple-A school at the time. It now qualifies for 6A. Oh, okay. So you had a lot of students. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah. And here's what this football coach told me.

He said, well, I expect to see you tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock here.

Yes, sir. And I did. And I played both my junior and senior years. What were you playing? Well, I was a wide receiver in a wishbone formation, which those two, you shouldn't use wide receiver and wishbone in the same sentence. Because we didn't throw much. Yeah. You were blocking. They needed your blocking skills. No, actually, we were messengers. We carried the play in and out. Yeah.

You were smart enough to actually remember what the coach told you on the sideline and regurgitated to the quarterback. I was really good at that. Jason, it was one thing. It was either split right or split left because that's where the receiver went. You only had one. And it was...

everything else was based on the triple option. And the quarterback, he made his read off the end and either handed the ball off or pitched it. Now, if you were a running back, it was a little different in that you didn't bring the play in and out, but you were always an option, so you always had to be on your toes. But a wide receiver? Nah, not in a wishbone. You just go down and block somebody and then go get the next play. What did you learn from football, though?

What did it teach you? Best teaching platform ever, aside from maybe the infantry squad that we can talk about. Because here's the thing about football. It's about 11 people, each with a specific assignment, to go out and block their assignment, be on the right snap count, do all those kinds of things. And then the success...

of the organization in this case maybe the offense the success of the organization is based on everybody doing their job and being on the same page and an adequate read of what the the defenders are going to do what the enemy is going to do right and so you you can apply this uh throughout life you can apply it

to organizations, you can apply it to competitive business, you can apply it to military, you can apply it along the way. So that's what football taught me. It taught me to be part of a team, that my job as part of the team was vitally important to the outcome, you know, to the success of the team. And then I also learned that you should expect that when you break huddle and you call a play, that the guy on your left

And the guy on your right are going to be giving 100 percent. And that's an expectation that I carry with me today, that when I show up for work, everybody in my organization is going to be giving 100 percent. Now, it changes a little bit when you get to Congress, because then you've got too many free agents. Yeah, you've got, you know, 535 people and everybody's...

Now, growing up, did you have brothers, sisters? I got six brothers and sisters. I've got four sisters and two. There are seven kids. Maybe my math is bad, but there were three boys, four girls. And there were I do remember this, Jason, like it was yesterday.

Back in the 1960s and 70s, you know, I mean, my dad was a broadcaster. He wasn't a wealthy guy, but we had a big family. And I just remember there were seven kids and there were only six pork chops on Sunday night. So...

you had to be fast uh in in my household uh no we uh we had a you know brothers and sisters all important to me all still around today all doing well living independently you know with families my mom and dad are both still alive my mom fell a couple of days ago and fractured her cheekbone she's going to be 90 in december

But she was walking my son's dog for him and tripped and fell. Dad just turned 89, still on the radio every day. I've been on his show a couple times. You've been on his show, yeah. And you need to come back on his show. He'd love to have you. But anyway, so, hey, things are really good in my family. My grandmother on my mom's side lived to 104. Wow.

Wow. That's some good genes you got there. And so, Jason, I got to tell you this story. So I go down there. She was in Russellville. I was in northwest Arkansas. I went down to see her and my mom lived right down the street from her. So any time a family member was coming to visit grandma, my mom would meet us at the nursing home. So but in this case, I decided I'm going to go by myself. I'm not going to tell anybody. And I happen to be the mayor of Rogers at the time.

So I walked in the nursing home and I said, I'm here to see Hester Kennedy. And this nurse says, well, can I tell her who's calling, you know, coming to see her? And I said, no, I want to tell her myself because my grandmother by that time was blind. OK. And she mumbled. But she was at the dining table and had the bib around her neck. They were eating. Sure. Sure. And she says, Hester, you have a visitor. And she says, well, who is it?

And she says, well, I'm going to let him tell you. So I said, Hester, have you ever heard of the city of Rogers, Arkansas? And she said, my grandson is the mayor of Rogers, Arkansas. Didn't have her teeth in. And I said, is he a pretty good grandson? And she said, well, he's not my favorite, but he's OK. OK.

Because she must have. I mean, how many grandkids did she have at that point? She had a ton of them. I can't even remember. I could count them, I guess. But she had, I don't know, 15 or 20 grandkids. Half of them were out of my family. So, yeah. That is awesome. You know, it's amazing. I've told this story before, but on my wife's side of the family,

Her mom lived to be, or her grandmother lived to be 100.

And what was amazing is that she was born in 1899, but she lived to the year 2000. She touched three centuries. Who does that? That is absolutely incredible. And what that generation went through, especially you live that long, the number of changes in technology from mobile phones, just telephones, television, airplanes, all of that was just new, right? Unbelievable.

To see those types of changes, my wife's father passed away earlier this year and

Great man, you know, in his mid-90s. And he, what I loved about him, he had a couple attitude approaches. First of all, you never see him grumpy. He never said a harsh word. Served in the military. Served in Vietnam. Served in, you know, he was, did just amazing military service. Great orthopedic surgeon. You know, was in the Kiwanis Club the whole bit.

and had six great prosperous kids and and I could just wax on about all the all the good things that he did but I remember he said you got to use it or lose it you know motion is motion is lotion like you got to keep going I mean you just whatever it is you got to just plow right through it use it or lose it and and he kept this like super good attitude and he was a voracious reader but

The kids got together and they decided they were going to give their dad an iWatch. He was into his iPhone, but man, he loved his watch. He got it. He was learning how to do all the apps and everything. He just thought that was the most fascinating thing and so futuristic. And I think that sort of attitude, it just permeates. And I know it affected me and my wife, Julie. Well, I will tell you, just hearing you tell the story,

This is part of what's wrong with present generations, in my view. And that is sometimes we ignore our past. We fail to learn from previous generations. And there's one of my favorite old folk songs you've probably never heard called Water from Another Time that kind of explains it. And what it's about, the song is about an old, rusty river

Well, pump and now some of your older listeners will understand this because they've been around it. But in the old days, you know, you you had to pump water from a from a well and and you had to prime that pump with the previous use of the pump. So you always left a cup of water out from the previous use so you could prime the pump the next time you need to use it. And and the lyric says, you

It don't take much, but you got to have some. The old ways help the new ways come. Something about be ready for the next time by leaving a little water from another time. So that I mean, and I got part of those lyrics wrong, but yeah, the messages. Yeah. You just described listening to your dad or your what's it? Your father, father, father-in-law that that.

We learn from history. We learn from the experiences of the past. And look, it hadn't always been a bed of roses. And sometimes generations today fail to understand that the...

trip through time that our parents and our grandparents had can be very informational for us, very beneficial to us in trying to chart the course that we're on right now. And I never failed to do that. And my dad is 89. My mom's going to be 90. So I get a heavy dose of that every time I talk to them because they're both around. They're both coherent. They're both living independently and though not married anymore, but

But I learned from them based on their life experiences. And I hope, Jason, that one day our kids and grandkids will look back and say, man, I learned so much from from my dad and in my family over time. And if we can leave that kind of a legacy, then that would be good for us. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Congressman Steve Womack right after this.

Listen to the all-new Brett Baer podcast featuring Common Ground. In-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Baer favorites like his all-star panel and much more. Available now at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, you know, it is something special and something that does need to get passed on. So let's go back to your high school experience. So you're going through high school. Now you're on the football team.

Yeah, I played high school sports, scored a few touchdowns, you know, did pretty well, even though I was only there two years. And then we have a college in that town, Arkansas Tech University. And I went there because I like my mom's cooking, didn't want to live in a dorm. I got an ROTC scholarship and I went through college in eight semesters, never took a summer class.

My brother was a West Point graduate two years ahead of me. So he was at West Point while I'm at Arkansas Tech. I wanted longer hair. I wanted to be in a fraternity. I wanted to date girls. And Jim kept saying, well, come to West Point. Well, you can't do any of that up there at West Point. So but I got an ROTC scholarship. And so I was doing ROTC and college at the same time.

and then graduated in 1979 got my diploma and took my oath as a commissioned officer and went straight into the national guard because at that time you could do that they were they were trimming the ranks of the military so i didn't have to go on active duty

Became an armor officer, went to the armor school, came back, got in a cav unit there in Arkansas, tanks and armored personnel carriers, and spent the first 10 years of my military career in the armor branch, and then later branch transferred to infantry. But right after college, Jason, I left Russellville and moved to northwest Arkansas, where I live now.

and my dad and i founded the radio station that he operates still today that was november 9th 1979 when i flipped the switch and put a brand new station on the air i'll bet you haven't checked this out but i think i'm the only member of congress who has uh i know presently who has flipped a switch that created a brand new radio station yeah and it's on the air still today

And I did that for 11 years. So that gets us up to 1990. I managed the radio station. Then in 1990, I had an opportunity to go on active military duty through the Guard as an assistant professor of military science at the University of Arkansas.

And I was going to do that three years. I ended up doing six, made major during that time. And then I left the university in 1996 and came back to the radio business. But it was only short-lived. I only did six more months there because I just had kind of lost touch with broadcasting. I wanted to spread my wings and do something else. And I ended up going to work for Merrill Lynch as a financial consultant.

And went to work in a brokerage firm in Rogers, Arkansas, worked for a guy named George Westmoreland. And and then a couple of months into that, they told me he came in one day and he said, hey, you got to go take your series seven exam.

and i said familiar with that really i got to do that and they said oh yeah you got to do that you got to we should have been studying all along anyway i went down took my series seven exam longest test i've ever taken in my life and uh and i passed uh i don't know how but i did and uh and i did uh broker services for two years at merrill and then um then then something

kind of miraculous happened. And I talk about this a lot, particularly with young people, because they ask me how you got into politics. And I'll tell you how I got into politics. While I was at Merrill Lynch, I was interested in my city government and I had won a seat on the Rogers City Council and I was a council member, part-time job. Now, how big a city is this? At the time, 35, 38,000, something like that. Pretty good size. But I was a member of the council.

And I was on the finance committee. And anyway, I won't bore you with all the details, but there were some challenges going on in town. And I approached the mayor back then about the fact that we were kind of dying on the vine and it was a growth area and we could do better and he ought to do better. And some of his people were the reason we weren't doing better. And he got real angry with me. And and I told him, I said, you know, John, if you don't do something about this, you

Somebody could run against you in a race and beat you. And boy, he said the magic word. Why don't you? And so I thought about it. How old were you at this point? Well, that was 1998. I mean, just roughly. Yeah.

Yeah, I was 40, 41. Okay. So you, yeah, you, you had a little wear on the tires there. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. My hair's not quite as silver, but, but he just said, why don't you? And look, he, he, the reason he said it kind of smart, smart, elegy, you know, he was, he was just basically pulling my chain and I decided to do it. So I ran, knocked on a whole bunch of doors and,

And and pulled off an upset. Fifty seven. Forty three. Beating 14 points. Wow. And that's that's impressive, actually. And that that started a series of 12 years to reelections for your terms.

uh where i was presiding as the mayor strong mayor former government rogers arkansas did about a billion dollars in development and uh made a name for us myself and did a lot of great things delivered on a lot of promises and uh and then in 2010 so we're getting close to the end now 2010 john bozeman the representative for that area decided to run for the senate and i had all these people saying steve you gotta you gotta move to congress

So I ran for Congress, eight-way primary, head-to-head runoff, then a general election, and now 13 years later, I'm still here. Okay, but how'd that conversation go? I mean, it's one thing to be mayor, another to run for Congress, but when you first said, hey, you know, I want to do that, like, where did you go? Like, when you sat down with your wife and said, hey, honey, I got a really good idea.

I got all this free time. I got nothing else going on. I mean, how'd that conversation go? All right. Well, there have been three conversations. Okay. The first conversation, I'm a broker at Merrill Lynch making really good money. Done at 3.30 every day. Okay. Right. And I come home and I say, I'm going to run for mayor of Rogers. Pays about 40 grand a year. Right. My wife says,

You're kidding me. No, honey, I'm not kidding. They did, by the way, give me a raise after I was elected that made it a little more beneficial. So that was the first conversation. Second conversation. Yeah, but it's not like, yeah, I'm sure that's not like the pinnacle of the Merrill Lynch hierarchy either. Yeah, true. The second conversation was when I decided to run for Congress. You're going to do what?

And and I said, yeah, well, you know, you're in politics now. You've been doing it for 12 years as a mayor, as a first lady of the city. So you don't have to worry about that anymore. And and I'm going to I'm going to try to go to Washington. And so that conversation happened. And then when.

when our governor term limited, my name surfaced in Arkansas. This was before Sarah Sanders said she was going to run. But there was going to be this vacancy. And I had all these people saying, Womack, you're a former mayor. You're a congressman. You're a military guy. You ought to run for governor. You ought to be our governor. I had all these people saying that. So I went home and I had this conversation with Terry. And you know Terry. And I said, honey, they think I ought to run for governor. And she said, you know...

I don't think a single man's going to get elected governor. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Congressman Steve Womack right after this. And there was this pregnant pause. And so I'm still in Congress. Right, right.

She is wise. She's smart. She's perceptive. She gets it. Yeah. No, that's. Oh, but that's, that's it. And now here we are. And,

2023 into 2023 and I'm still in Congress and my life has been blessed in so many ways. I just can't begin to count them. And just the close associations I've had with people down through the years, the experiences I've had, the leadership lessons I've had, all of those things. You know, if the Lord took me home today,

Or tomorrow, man, I've had a charmed life, and I can't argue with that. Certainly got a lot more things I want to do, but I've been blessed so far. Well, you know, and that's why we need, look, we need good people. I don't expect everybody to agree with me. That's not the way our founders set it up. If they wanted a glide path for bills that just sailed through and speed was the primary issue and all that,

They certainly wouldn't have set up a Congress the way they did with the checks and the balances and the vetoes and all that. I mean, they could have done it very differently, but it is kind of interesting to me when you go to the floor of the house and you just think, oh my gosh, how did that person get elected? I mean, did anybody meet that person? Like, you know, how did they get there? But you do find it is a, it truly is a cross section of America. And there's some people that, you know, it's,

It's hard to bite your tongue sometime and be patient when you see some of the craziness. Explain from your perspective how social media and other things have affected the way Congress actually operates maybe versus the way it should operate. Well, you make a great point. And let me say this. I'm not an expert on this stuff. In fact, social media was kind of coming into play back when I ran in 2010.

And people kept talking about how it was going to be kind of a way of life. And it was going to be you got you got to do this. You got to do it well. This is how campaigns are going to be done in the future and all that kind of stuff. And I was kind of dismissive of it. I still don't understand it. And I have really good people doing it. And so, yes, we do do it. I I personally don't tweet. I personally don't post on Facebook and all that. But my my campaign team does. And and

and other people do that for me so that I'm not, you know, just completely way out of bounds. But I personally don't do that very well, but it has changed everything. And here's, there's a whole lot of things. We can do a whole segment about it, but this is the takeaway from it. And that is, it has created, I think, a platform right now of partial truths so that some things can be posted

and have a shred of truth to it, and then it defines, it creates the narrative overall for whatever that issue is. And it may be based on just a very thin thread of something truthful. So I always say this, I'm a former Rotarian, and if you've ever been to a Rotary club, you know that they do what they call the four-way test, and the first item on the four-way test is, is it the truth?

And what is elusive in Washington is the full truth. You get pieces, bits and pieces of it. And then people take bits and pieces of the truth and then they shape it into the narrative that they want to create. And so I'm always telling people, do your own homework, you know, do your own research, create your own opinions. Don't rely on something you have seen on Facebook or some other social site, uh,

And don't necessarily take what you hear, and don't take this the wrong way, Jason, on a cable news network. Don't just take that and make it verbatim, take it verbatim and create your opinion based on the totality of what that person or what that posting happened to say. Listen to it, hear it, read it.

But go do your own research and do some of your own fact-finding analysis on whether it is or isn't as it is purported to be. And that's what I think is hurting Congress right now is that there's so many things out there where people don't have a full grasp of the details. They only have little bits and pieces of it. And therefore, people like me in Congress...

are sometimes having to spend more time debunking something that has been said or reported before we can actually help them understand what the actual truth is about the issue or about the cause.

And so that becomes very frustrating for me. And you got to do it in such a way that you don't come across condescending, that you know everything and nobody else knows anything. But that has been a big challenge for us all. Yeah, no, look, and I think there's, you know, there's some people that just play to the social media and that gets frustrating. It's sort of bumper sticker politics. I mean, you know, bumper sticker on a car, right?

kind of tell you what their point of view is. But you're right, if you don't dive a little deeper, I mean, we talk about weighty issues like military and funding and healthcare and all of these types of things. And you can't give a synopsis or justice to it. And

90 seconds or 45 seconds. But, you know, I think there's value in it in that you, oh, how should I think through this issue? Or it certainly is a good way to fact check people and fast, you know, play a video of somebody who is saying something just the opposite when they were in power. And now that the Republicans are in charge, suddenly a Democrat has a

for perspective on how they should be treated you know the other thing that's done jason is remember the camera is always always on the recorder is always going so you got to be really careful today what you say and do just in a casual conversation or in a casual appearance because you never know when somebody is you know picking up on it and uh and and that happens a lot yeah you get

a phrase or one sentence and you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is a little different than that. But again, that's why you got to have good people there and that are willing to work with both sides of the aisle. I'm not one that believes that all good ideas come from one side and all the other, the other side of the aisle has all the bad ideas. I, I, I don't buy that. I,

I think you'd be naive to say that you have all the answers, and that's what I appreciate. You've got open ear, but you know, got history in life and experience. Sometimes I have young people say, "Oh, how do I get involved in politics?" And I say, "Well, the first thing you do is don't get involved in politics. Actually go out and do something. And then you got something to lean on." You know, I worry about these. I think it's great when these interns come out, they get a DC experience.

They they have that but then go do something it's these lifers that I that I worry about but nevertheless my little speech for the day in order to get to know you a little bit better Congressman Steve Womack I got some rapid questions. I need to ask you as we kind of wrap up here. Let's go. All right, you ready? First concert you ever attended the first concert I think was David Clayton Thomas blood sweat and tears

1970s, mid 1970s, at the building at Arkansas Tech. Now, I was a college student. And and I think that was the first one could have been sticks, they may have come sooner. But it was sticks, blood, sweat and tears do be brothers. In that era. Those are some of the concerts I attended as a college student.

when I was young. I don't recall doing any concerts when I was in high school, but remember, two years at Russellville High School, I didn't have a lot of friends, I didn't know a lot of people, so I wasn't out and about. We didn't have any concerts come to town back in those days. Hey, if you had Styx come to town, this year, this year, Julie and I, they were down in St. George at the Tuakon Theater, and we went to see Styx.

And I think it's only one of the original guys. But when they play their whole concert, you're like, I know every song. Well, there was one or two I didn't know. But those are songs from my childhood that it was kind of fun. It was really fun. What about best concert? Best concert. Let me tell you. Yeah. Don't laugh, okay? I'm already laughing. The best concert I ever attended.

for the showmanship, basically, more than anything, Barry Manilow. Really?

Barry Mandel. Of course, I love the song Mandy. That was one of my all-time favorite songs. He's a love song. He had hits. I mean, he even wrote a song about all the hits he had. And he did all those commercials. He did a lot of voiceover commercials. But anyway, he did a whole series in his concert about the commercials. The McDonald's jingle and all those kinds of things. But what was fascinating was how many times he changed clothes for

backstage and came out in the middle of the concert. I mean, it was amazing what Barry Manilow was able to do. Anyway, that was really one of my all-time favorites. Well, that's interesting. What was your high school mascot? Cyclones. I was a Spartan in Moberly.

two years, and then I was a cyclone at Russellville. Well, that makes sense, actually. You know, that part of the world, sometimes you hear mascots, and you're like, really? Like, you got a lot of Vikings, did you, in Iowa? You know, that kind of thing. What's your superpower? What I mean by that is, like, what can you do that, like, yeah, I'm pretty good at that. We all have a superpower. We're all pretty good at doing or seeing or thinking of things. What's yours? I'm pretty good at cards.

No, I didn't know that. I bet you made some money then serving in the guard out and about. I bet there's a few card games that were going on. You know, the card games I played were mainly games of strategy and not necessarily poker. I probably don't have a good poker face, but up here, you wouldn't have any reason to know this, but Fred Upton and Greg Walden

and me and usually somebody else we invite some dummy that wants to come play we we would play hearts

Oh, I love hearts. Yeah. It's a great game. And, and let me tell you, hearts is a, and if you, I play the Jack diamonds version, I don't know what you play, but there's a Jack diamonds version that adds another dimension to it. You know, instead of not wanting to get the queen, you want to get the Jack of diamonds because that's automatically 10 points off your score. But, and there's a strategy behind it. I got to tell you this story. So Upton calls me one day, Fred's former energy and commerce chairman, Michigan and, and his niece, uh,

Yes. Is Kate Upton. Yes. Who married Justin Verlander. Because I'm a huge baseball fan. So Upton calls me one day. Well, and I'm a huge Kate fan. Everybody is. Everybody's a Kate Upton fan. Anyway, so he calls me and he says, hey, where are you? And I said, well, I'm coming back from downtown. He says, well, come to the Speaker's Balcony. I got somebody I want you to meet. So I show up at the Speaker's Balcony and there's Kate Upton.

and oh by the way there's justin verlander and and i spent more time back to the game of hearts okay uh uh this says something about me i instead of over there you know just you know falling head over heels in love with kate upton and getting pictures with her

I'm talking to Verlander and because Upton says, Justin, this is my hearts player. This is the guy that plays hearts with me. I'm trying to do my Upton. That does sound like him. I get it. Yeah. It's pretty good. And Verlander says to me,

Hey, do you play, which version of hearts do you play? I said, well, I play the Jack diamonds version. He says, well, I'm trying to learn that. Can you help me with it? So I'm standing over there coaching Justin Verlander on the Jack diamonds version of hearts. So now whenever I see Verlander pitch,

I tell my kids, tell my grandkids, I coached him. And they look at me and they say, you coached Justin Asai Young? You coached Justin? Yeah, I coached him. Well, not in baseball. I coached him on the Jack Diamonds version of hearts. Yeah, all being a pitcher, they probably play their fair share of cards. I mean, you're on the road. It's a tough life. Yeah. They do. You know what? And they're good people. I saw –

Kate Upton, my wife and I were traveling and we were in some Delta crown room, I think in Los Angeles. And she came in and

And we didn't say anything. We just kind of left her alone. But I told Fred Upton that. He's like, why didn't you say something? Well, we probably should have. We didn't want to be those people. You didn't want to be one of those guys. We didn't want to bug her. I would have been. Anyway, but she was very nice, and she was very nice to everybody. Anyway, nothing but good things to say.

Pineapple on pizza, yes or no? Yes, yes. I love pineapple on pizza. Not all the time. That's a mistake. We'll work with you on that. Everybody has their shortcomings. I love pineapple on pizza. Arkansas, come on. If you're

I buy that in Oahu, but maybe not here. So I'm very disappointed to hear that. Just want you to know judges don't like it. That's for sure. OK, well, hey, I'm just going to be honest with you, Jason. You need to try it. I have. That's why I'm so vehemently against it. I even put clean olives in my beer. OK, so a lot of people frown at that. All right. Last question. Best advice you ever got.

Well, I have to go back to my dad. And I remember where and when I was signing a contract with the U.S. Army to get into the advanced course of ROTC. I had to make a decision. Do I get do I sign the contract and commit myself to a commitment or or not? And my dad was on jury duty, Pope County Courthouse, Russellville, Arkansas. It's about 12 noon that day. I walked in.

Got him out of jury duty. He came down the stairs. He said, what do you need? I said, dad, I got to make a decision. I got to make it right now. Do I stay in ROTC or not? Cause I got to sign a contract. It's going to commit me to eight years of service. And he listened to me and he said, well, obviously young man, you're convicted. You're you're, you're, you, you, you just, you're conflicted on this subject, but you've come to dear old dad and asked for his advice. And so I'm going to tell you, and I'm going to give you two words.

blind faith. You need to go on blind faith that if you go out there to that campus and sign that contract and get in the advanced course, earn your commission, that you'll look back on it someday and say it was the best advice, some of the best advice you ever got. So Jason, in 2009, I retired from the military at the rank of colonel, 30 years, five months and 19 days. And then I

a few years later the day that i got my first retirement check from the military and i get one every month i called up my dad answered the phone hey dad do you remember the words blind faith and he starts laughing and i said he said yes i do and i said well dad let me tell you something i went on blind faith that day and i did 30 years in uniform

And now on my 60th birthday, I am receiving my first military retirement check. And had it not been for those two words and your sage advice in that summer day of 1977, I believe it was, we wouldn't be having this conversation about this subject. And my dad says, well,

Sometimes dad knows best. And I knew right then what it had done for me, and I knew it would do the same thing for you. And, you know, Jason, that's been, I'm now 60, almost 67. So that's been six or seven years ago that I made that phone call after I started receiving that check.

And I get it every month, get my military health care also. But aside from the retirement value and the health care, the leadership lessons, all of the things, the management and experience I got, the deployment, the friendships, all of the things that you get from a career in the military, I benefited from. And so I'll never forget those words. Go on blind faith.

that it will be one of the smartest things you've ever done. And he was certainly correct. Well, thank you for your service. I mean, it's a lot of time, it's a lot of effort, a lot of talent, but it's good people like you all across the country stepping up and doing it. And, uh,

Can't thank you enough for that service. You're very kind, Jason. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for joining us on the Jason House Podcast. Really do appreciate it. Love the insight. Love the perspective on the life and the contribution. And you've been a great leader in Congress and Arkansas. And give your best to your dad. I want to come back on his show. We'll figure that out. But thanks again for joining us.

We'll get that done. Jason, thank you so much. We miss you here in Washington, D.C., but admire the work you've done in your post congressional career. Keep up the good work and all the best to you and your family. OK, thank you. Steve Womack, just a wonderful human being. And, you know, good people serving in Congress is what we need. And he served his.

his state, his nation, his local neighborhood, his family. He's just a wonderful good guy. I'm glad we could have that conversation with him. We learn a lot every time we do these types of things.

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