Brian Kilmeade: How Teddy and Booker T. Blazed A Path For Racial Equality 50:51

It's time to take the quiz. Five questions, five minutes a day, five days a week. Take the quiz every weekday at the quiz.fox and then listen to the quiz podcast to find out how you did. Play, share, and of course, listen to the quiz at the quiz.fox. Well, welcome to the Jason and the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffee. Thanks for joining us. Give us a little bit of your time. And I'm excited about today's show. We got somebody who's coming back on who, you know, Brian Kilmeade.

He does everything at Fox, right? He's on Fox and Friends. He hosts that. He's got his own radio show for three hours, aptly named The Brian Kilmeade Show. He has a Saturday night show on Fox, which is a big hit.

And he's on the five. I mean, he does everything. He's like the hardest working guy at Fox. Now, I've said that a lot about Sean Hannity. Sean Hannity does three hours of radio, does an hour of television. But kill me, it is like omnipresent and has been for a long time. And it's because he's got a lot to say and he's very good at saying it.

And you'll be amazed. I mean, off camera, on camera, the guy's the same. He's like tenacious. He gets after it. He does not sit still well. His enemy is doing nothing. Like he can't, it's not in his DNA. He can't, he can't just sit around and do nothing. Well, he's written a new book, another book.

It's called Teddy and Booker T. How two American icons blazed the path for racial equality. And it's a fascinating story. So we're going to sit down with Brian in person, talk that through. But what a great gift coming into the holidays. Teddy and Booker T. How two American icons blazed the path for racial equality. Fascinating story.

But I want to talk a little bit before we get to our conversation with Brian. I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the things in the news and highlight the stupid because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. All right. So let's start with Joe Biden, the president of the United States. Now, we record this in advance. It could happen in the next few days before this podcast comes out. But anyway.

I have been saying for nearly a year, I do not think that Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee for president. I just don't think so. And I think the holidays, whether it be Thanksgiving, Christmas, good time to sit down with the family and then tell the American people, I have been serving in public life since 1972. Think about that. 1972. He was in the United States Senate.

He's been around that long, and there comes a point where he's got to pass the baton. And I think even the puppeteers behind the scenes are looking at this equation. They're looking at the poll numbers. You know, they see Donald Trump, and they hate Donald Trump. They think Donald Trump is like the devil. They think he is the worst person on the face of the planet, and they're losing to him. And so I just think they look at that equation and say...

Look, we love his policies, but he just can't do the job. Now, conservatives, independents, Republicans, right-leaning people,

They're looking at it saying, hey, you know what? The policies are failing and you have a poor communicator. We probably agree on the poor communicator. And it's not as if more Joe Biden or more Kamala Harris is going to suddenly just talk their way into, hey, it's really good. The border is secure. That's what they keep telling us, right? Border secure.

The world's fine. It's safer than it was when Joe Biden came on the scene. They got none of those talking points to go through. It's not as if things are going well. So policy-wise, we're upside down. We have no energy program.

worlds ablaze, safety and security. I call it the security index, right? You don't feel security in your own wallet with the high inflation. You don't feel security because of the crime. You don't feel security because of what's going on on the border. And certainly when you look at what's going on with Israel and around the world, the world is a more tumultuous, violent, and I mean, there's wars going on.

And that wasn't true when the previous president, Donald Trump, was in place. So I think people look at that that equation. It's a good time for Biden and Harris to sit down, particularly Joe Biden, and say, yeah, time to hang up the cleats, finish out your term, but don't become the nominee. Allow some daylight for some others to get some traction. That's my prediction. And I think that's going to happen. Another news. You got to be careful when you're using one of these online map programs. Right.

Google Maps, Apple Maps. Google has been in the news recently. So out in Mount Fromm, and I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly, in British Columbia in Canada, this hiker was out there and was following Google Maps on a non-existent trail. It's the second time evidently on this area that this is happening. Search and Rescue had to come in and get these people.

i feel terrible for them because they thought they were doing all the right things by following google maps non-existent road ouch how many times have we seen and heard that even on the office they parodied that right they dwight and uh michael are going to a meeting and michael's insistent on following the map program and what happens remember they've run into the they go into the pond anyway

Be careful out there with that. The last thing I want to talk about before I get to the stupid is I saw this story on Fox News dot com. Saturn's rings are disappearing. And I thought, oh, what's going on? Can't see Saturn's rings. Well, evidently, this is something that happens on a regular basis. I did not know that.

And let me just kind of read a quick thing from Fox News dot com. Saturn's many rings are disappearing and in 2025, the rings won't be visible from Earth, but it's only temporary. Saturn's ring system ends up to one hundred and seventy five thousand miles from the surface of the planet, making it clearly visible to stargazers. I've looked through a little telescope at our house.

We had one, we borrowed one. Somebody came over and said, hey, let's look at the stars. And you could see the rings on Saturn. It's really cool. However, in 2025, the gas giant will tilt on edge with Earth, making the huge rings seemingly disappear into an almost invisible line. But they come back. Evidently, this happens every 15 years. It's called a Saturnian equinox.

Saturn, I said it, I think, right the first time. Equinox. It's things happen. So don't worry. Even though you can't see the rings, the world is not coming to a collapse. All right. Time to move on to the stupid because you know what? There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. Climate activists. And I am not going to read you the name of the people or their organization because they don't deserve anything except respect.

getting handcuffs and being thrown in jail for a long period of time. But two people decided, this happened in Europe, to destroy a 17th century painting. Now the valuation of this painting was like 90 million dollars. It was painted by Diego Valesquez and I don't know it, wasn't familiar with it, but in the art world it's very valuable. They went up to it with hammers and just started bludgeoning this thing.

to draw attention to the idea that oil and gas is gonna kill people. And I'm telling you, they have got to have the most severe punishment when they're gonna go out and do 90 million dollars worth of damage.

You know, you go to an art gallery, go to see part of humanity. You want to be able to do so without having to go, you know, behind glass and all these things. But what else are they going to do? Because these climate idiots keep doing these things, destroying things, interrupting people.

And they think the ends justify the means. And it's just until there's a severe consequence, not a slap on the wrist, they're going to keep doing it. That's the stupid. Don't do it. Let's put these people in jail. All right. I'm excited to bring on our next guest. He is just a wonderful guy. I relate to him a lot of ways, not only because of the Fox stuff, but we love soccer. We're kind of

we just love soccer i just think it's uh you know fun enjoyable we love it uh but it also ends up the brian kilmeade does a great deal of history i mean like he's infatuated with history and he's written a number of books he's got this new book out and it's called teddy and booker t how two american icons blaze the path for racial equality so brian let's sit down with brian

All right, I'm so glad that we got Brian Kilmeade in the house. We're rolling already. We're rolling already. We don't waste time. What about the long introduction? I mean, what about the theme music? Everybody knows who you are. Oh, okay. There's a big setup of like a 10-minute setup before we get this. Is there video?

There's like a full-on band. There is a band. Oh, yes. Okay. I didn't realize that. I didn't see the size of that budget. Yeah. So what's going on? Oh, I got a big one. By the way, how well-dressed are we for audio? I mean, ties are tight. Yeah. I mean, if you go to any other radio facility in America— You got shoes on? I'm wearing shoes and pants. Yes. So, I mean— Yes, let's clarify. For us to be dressed this well, it's almost underappreciated because we're audio only. I know.

I know. It is kind of disappointing, huh? They can create a visual though. All right. I got to, I got something I got to clarify though. I did a podcast with Carly Shimkus talking about her cookbook, you know,

And she said, you never eat when there's food on the set of Fox and Friends. How does that come out? Even though I'm on the cover right in the middle, right? She led with that. Right. The whole idea that, you know, whenever there's food on Fox and Friends, but Kill Me doesn't eat it. Because Pete Hegseth is a monster. I mean, that's what he does. I mean, he literally does not eat. He brings his own ribs to the set. Right. So he nonstop. And by the way, no body fat on the guy.

So it really bothers me. Well, it bothers me that you know that. Because I've always given him a pinch test. I'm still old school. Old school. I mean, there is a body mass index scale you can get on, but I prefer the pinch. So he's in really good shape. But there's a theory. You want to know my theory? Yeah. I hate gum chewing.

I don't like that noise of people chewing. You're opposed to fresh breath? I'm not anti. I'm pro scope. Right? You have scope. Swish and spit? That's all we need. Listerine. Even the medicine you taste.

But I just, I hate that. That's one thing about me. My form of torture would be hearing people chew gum around me. So the other thing is when people eat and I can hear them slopping around. And I think to myself, what is worse than watching TV and hearing people chew in their ear? Plus, the other thing is,

People always try to talk with their mouth full. So they're eating. What do you think of it? Everybody's going to love it, number one. Oh, it's fantastic. I never thought of putting bread with a sandwich. Number two, people see the food in your mouth or you're eating sloppy. And I think to myself, what if people are like me? They can hear me chewing and it bothers them. I figure also if I'm on with somebody else, I'll do the talking. It is television and you do have to talk. You can't just sit around and eat and then take 45 seconds. So you agree with me.

Well, I eat gingerly. Like, take a little bite. But Pete Hegseth. Oh, I mean... And Will's not much better. No. They're licking their fingers, you know. But, I mean, America likes them more. So, I must be doing something wrong. But Kali Shimka's got a great book. I'm pretty much on the cover. You are on the cover. Did you add a recipe? I think so. I think so. They pull back something I think my mom made. I forgot what she's in it, but...

Carly was able to go to the best of Fox and Friends and go through all this cooking with friends and put together a book. She's a genius because I thought she was not focused on

capitalist part of society. I thought she was more focused on reading the prompter, talking about and learning about news. I did not know she was taking advantage of Fox and Friends Cooking with Friends to put together a book and make money off her job, which I don't think is right. Now, it's one of my favorite cookbooks. We're still talking about this. Because I'm still in it. Oh, you're in it? Yes. What did you do? Well, I have a recipe in there. Okay. It's my wife's recipe. Right. You did nothing. Yes. Yes.

Now, and I got a beef, and it's not with you. Right. But with Ducey, because in his cookbook, I took a picture that's in the book. Yeah. And I'm not sure I got the full credit. So they didn't put you credit in the book and you took the picture? Well, I've been waiting for the royalties, and that has not shown up yet. Hmm. Want to sue? Everyone else is suing. I'm thinking about it. You know who I would blame? Hunter Biden. That's it. Sorry.

Now, you wrote a real serious book. I mean, this is... Like, I got it in my hands. Look how heavy this thing is. A lot of it's the pictures because we went to Tuskegee, and once we proved that we were legitimately pursuing this book, they opened up their archives.

And they gave me great pictures. Got it. It was right when photography came into being. He was born a slave, and he comes up, and we have photography. So you're actually seeing him. I didn't get film, which kills me, because he looks like an unbelievable speaker by all accounts. Incredible. Teddy Roosevelt, too. High-pitched voice, but strong. There's one...

But to see these pictures, once they... I was really flattering. Once they realized that we were real for the book, I did the interviews. We did an hour special. It's going to air November 5th and be archived on Fox Nation. And we were there to see Tuskegee and how it came and what it was, the original buildings, the pride they have. And they just, instead of being standoffish, they said, what do you need? I go, I need better pictures. And they said, come on in. And that was just awesome. Okay, but let's go back. Yeah. Because...

I mean, you're on Fox like all the time. It's unbelievable what you do. And you've got this, I think part of what makes you so good is you've got this keen interest, this like, you just naturally like you asking questions, want to genuinely know how, why did you focus on this? I mean, you've written some great books in the past. They've been wildly successful. People love them.

But why this? Why these guys? Why Teddy and Booker T? I mean, to tell you the truth, I never thought I'd write something besides the sports books. And you and I can relate to that. We were soccer players. You were a football player, too. And we didn't go pro. You were much more successful than I was. I was an average Division II player who wanted to be great. And you played Division I football, right? I mean, fantastic. But you didn't go pro. So you would have been eligible, Jason, had I known you, for the book, The Games Do Count.

That was it. And then they said, well, Brian, you got to do another first one worked. And I said, well, I want to prove that even if you went pro like Montana, played like us, and even in history, people in history going back to Patton, going back to actually his father-in-law and all this stuff, the rock, what you learn in sports, the values you learn in sports, even if you fail, which means you don't act great, if you learn from it, you excel in life.

Everybody has that last game. Tom Brady or the kid who's playing... Brady could have left on top. That almost never happens. Jordan could have left on top, came back with the Washington...

But how many people leave like Strahan? I mean, Strahan leaves a Super Bowl champion, goes right to Good Morning America. Right, right, right. But that rarely happens. But if you don't, are you wasting your time? Even the kid who's playing in high school and hurts his knee his junior year. Yeah. There's still so much to learn from sports. Absolutely. I don't mean to get off on this tangent, but I'm just saying...

You still learn a lot from sports. Well, because it's life on hyperspeed. So you wait for those moments where you learn about life. You fail a test or you have a physical challenge. You know, if somebody in your family passes away, oh, now it's a test. You test. Are you going to rally? You have to quit your job to go back and help the family. That's a character test. But in sports, it's not just a game. So I always said...

People used to laugh at me because I'm playing Division II soccer, I'm playing for my high school. My high school was fantastic. They divided the school in two teams. The high school was so big they had two high schools.

And we used to play each other in like the county finals. And then, you know, it was a war. But to get on that field was hellacious. Like the tryouts were crazy. You remember the Cosmos. I've told you this before, but the Cosmos coach was Gordon Bradley. He was in my town. His kids played. When they were free, the players would come down and play with us. In the 1970s, only a handful of parents knew how to coach.

Right. And we had Irish and Italians in our area and Germans in Massapequa. And they were like national team level players. So while everybody else was just playing and parents were looking up the manual and the rules, we had these international players and the Cosmos coach in our town. So long story short, to be good in that town.

You know where. You had to be very good. So I was just happy to play Division II soccer and get out from underneath that pressure. College was less pressure than club. And at the end of it, my friends would be hanging out doing stuff. I'm like, I got to go train. I got to go run. And they go, Brian.

No one cares. You're not going pro. There is no pro. Why are you doing this? I kept that in the back of my mind. I realized how much it helped me because it took me 13 years to get a job that I was even making my age. My first job, $12,000. Second job, $17,000. My friends are making, opened up at 50, 75, and I'm like, I'm not even close. But,

It didn't bother me because in the back of my head, the same crap, trying to get off the bench on your club team, playing in front of the student body, that was more challenging than trying to get a no from WFAN. I'm like, oh, really? Okay, next. Moving on. Oh, you don't like me? Do it. And all of a sudden, more and more, less people were saying no and kind of made sense. So that's why I wanted to write those books for the people that didn't like us and didn't go pro. So I was done. And then I went to Bill O'Reilly and I just said –

He was writing a history book, so I go, "Bill, there's something that happened right by us with the spies that you don't even know about." And he didn't know about it. I told him, "You gotta write the book." Kind of helped me through it. The book ends up really successful, George Washington's Secret Six. So he was very supportive. Oh yeah, instead of saying, "I do history," he's like, "Let me show you." So he didn't say, "Hey, scoot over, kid. This is my space."

He actually had yellow pads, and he was like going through, and he goes, no, this doesn't matter. This doesn't matter. I didn't know this. This is good. This is good. Really? And I go, yeah. And then I gave him the loose papers, read it over the weekend. He goes, you're on to it. I go, this is going to be really good. I go, wow. So it did do really well. Everyone was shocked.

Even Harper Collins said no, they don't want to do the book. So I went to Sentinel who said do it, then we did Thomas Jefferson, Tripoli Pirates did even better. Andrew Jackson, Milkor of New Orleans, the same time Trump comes in, same type character. You know, rogue, no one liked him, outsider, not equipped, he's not worthy. Never wanted to be inside, formed his own group, more powerful, out of office and in office. A lot of similarities to Trump, although he was a war hero.

and front-blank people that don't get captured. Right. Loser. Loser. So then I just wanted to do the next thing in line, and after doing the President Freedom Fighter, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, and the Battle to Save America's Soul, I go, while George Floyd's coming out, I'm like, okay, here's a white guy writing about this, but I wanted to show that I'm not ducking our history. I'm not saying slavery was just okay. It was terrible. But I'm also saying we didn't invent it.

It was came here. It was on every continent on the planet. And blacks were enslaved here. Whites were enslaved more in the Middle East than blacks. But I wanted to put it to this man that brought us forward, Frederick Douglass and his unlikely partner, Abraham Lincoln. And now they work parallel, came together at the end.

was able to recruit, put African-Americans in the Civil War, turn it around, single biggest reason. We weren't ready as a country yet. He knew the timing was right. Calls on Douglas. He comes in. Douglas becomes from his biggest critic to his best recruiter. We move forward, and the person who did more damage to our country, including bin Laden and Hitler and the bombing of Pearl Harbor, was John Wilkes Booth. Because if you put Lincoln through the 60s, and maybe even a third or fourth term,

Because he's in his 50s, right? If he does that, we don't need a 1960s civil rights legislation. As difficult as it was and would have been, he had a vision for the South. Flood with teachers, flood with housing, flood with occupations and jobs.

Would it have been resentful? Absolutely. Were the Confederates unwilling to make a change? True. Were visions about different race in America dug in? Absolutely. But if you even read what Douglass wrote, he was a teenager hanging out with white kids saying, why, you know, why is what's what is the deal with our parents? We look at each other equally goes. Yeah, it'll take a generation for us to get through it. You know what you're talking 1840s.

So we had to get that out of our system and we had to get rid of these stereotypes. So who brought us those two guys who took over, brought me to Booker T and Teddy Roosevelt. You're listening to Jason in the house. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Brian Kilmeade right after this.

from the Fox News Podcast Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. Make sure to check out my podcast, Kennedy Saves the World. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. I mean, it's a fascinating story. I look forward, I really do look forward to reading this. But what was the genesis of, like, where did this come on your radar and say, hey, yeah, you know,

This hasn't been written. Right. Nobody's done this story justice. Was there something that happened? Yeah. I was looking for a story. It was before the pandemic. It was actually before Frederick Douglass I read up from slavery. And it was Booker T. Washington's autobiography.

And I'm looking at this, reading this book, and I was stunned. Can you imagine being nine years old? You get called to the house. You're a slave. And a Union soldier opens up a paper. He realizes later is the Emancipation Proclamation. And he sees his mom crying, and she puts his arm around him, doesn't know his father, never did. Him and his brother said, we are free.

And then they stop celebrating and go, what do we do now? Yeah, what do you do? Right? It's such a, I mean, you've raised that way. Think about that. That's your only world you've lived in. White guy people don't know. This is what DeSantis was getting at. White people don't know how to do anything.

The black people have all the skills, no education. So he was saying when slaves come out of slavery, they have skills. He didn't say it was good. Right, right. He didn't say it was good. What he's saying is they have skills. And why does Booker T. Washington realize that right away? They almost felt bad. They're like, we're leaving. They're like, what do I do? He's like, I don't know what we're going to do. And in their case, they lace up the wagon, they go to West Virginia. And he, as a kid, is who just thirsted for education without one.

He would be in the salt mines, claustrophobic, with his brother at 10, 11 years old. But in his mind, you know how they talk about power of positive thinking? You probably do this. Visualization. You want to be in Congress. Right. Jason Chaffetz in Congress. How's it going to happen? You don't know anyone in politics. How's it going to happen? All of a sudden, you overhear somebody in a cafe, and you realize they're brothers in politics. You go up and you introduce yourself. Next thing you know, that person's getting out. That seat's open. How did that happen? I got lucky. No. No.

In your mind, and I believe this, you want it to happen and you're bringing this to you. He wants an education. He hears people talking about, you know, different schools to go to. He's begging to go to school. And then one day he meets up with his friends and they go, I'm quitting. What are you quitting?

I'm quitting. This woman is a brutal, she's a horrible person. Everything I do pleases her. I'm basically a housekeeper for her. I never do anything good enough. He goes, what do you mean you're a housekeeper? He goes, they need somebody. So he goes in there, he meets him, goes home, goes, can I quit and do this?

She goes, yes. You know what that person is? Just wanted things done right. This is Mrs. Ruffner. Mrs. Ruffner goes around, tells him to do things. He does it. Does it early. Does it quick. She teaches him how to stand, how to walk, how to present himself, how to talk without an accent, how to use proper hygiene.

She ends up living with him. He goes, well, what do you want? He goes, I want an education. Let me teach you. He learns the alphabet, learns to read, learns to do things. He gets more and more and more education, convinces his mom to go to a class at night. Then here is one day, he's like, I got to go to school. I got to go to school. He hears some men talking. If you get yourself to Hampton College, they will let you in. It's 400 miles away. He's got no ride. He's 17 years old. How's he going to do it? He's going to head that direction.

We, our version of hitchhiking, right? Wagon to wagon, to walk, to wagon, to walk, and to walk runs out of money, goes to the docs, tries to earn more money, gets it arrives at Hampton college. I look at him and they say, and this is in his book. And then the follow-up, they look at it, they look at him and say, what are you doing? Cause I like to be a student. He goes, not like that. You know, you've got to show me some promise. He's like, I want 400 miles. I don't want to hear it.

Goes out, comes back the next day, looks a little better. He has to get a shirt, goes works a little more, gets another shirt, comes back. They go, why do you keep coming back? What are you going to do? He said, I really want a bad education. He goes, well, why don't you just clean that classroom? Well, guess who knows how to clean? He cleans the classroom. He goes, who helped you? He goes, so she watches him clean another one. So then they clean every classroom together. She goes, you're our janitor. You can go to school at night.

He goes to school at night, emerges as the best student they ever have, comes out, graduates. They ask him to come back and teach night school. He does. General Armstrong, white guy who's never listed as white or black. He doesn't list people in his autobiography as white or black. I had to go look him up. General Armstrong loves him. He says, the best man I ever met, war hero.

He comes back and he goes, he gets a letter from people in Alabama. They want the black vote in Alabama. So how do you deal with the guys? Go, I need a college. He goes, all right, we'll give you a college if you get your black votes to vote for me. And they vote for this guy. The governor turns around and goes, what do you need? Need that college. Well, I'll give you $10,000. So they call up Armstrong, the best HBCU around. Go, who do you got? He goes, I need a white guy. He goes, I got a black guy.

He goes, it's Booker T. Washington. He goes, I need a white guy. He goes, he's 24 years old. When you see him, you'll understand. He shows up. He's got the job. Stops home, goes there. Can't wait to walk into this college. You know what it is? It's a small shed with a leaky roof.

He's got two weeks to get students, get his daughter. He loses the money. That ends up being Tuskegee, three hundred of acres. It costs. He's got three thousand students. He went from 30 to a thousand to twelve hundred. He uses his influence in time to go get Andrew Carnegie, Mel and J.P. Morgan, Rosenwald to ran Sears. They hear his story. They want to help. They know about racism and equity. They want to make America get better. He taps into that, brings it back.

And he makes the beacon of education. But he makes sure that every graduate learns a trade. And by the way, the black parents weren't happy. They go, no, my kid's going to be an academic. He's not going to use his hands. He goes, no, your kid's going to use his hands because it's going to be very hard for them to get hired. They've got to get agriculture. They're going to be an architect. They're going to be into brickmaking, construction, blacksmith, whatever it is. Everyone learns a trade. And guess what they do? They build the school.

at the same time. And the women are the seamstress and they learn a skill and they become teachers too at a time in which there was a huge problem with men and women too at that time. Right. I mean, we're still in... This is one guy born a slave. When I read that, to answer your question, I go, well, who was all over that story? Teddy Roosevelt. And I start tapping into Teddy Roosevelt, people on Long Island, they go, absolutely, it was a great relationship. And I start seeing some pictures. I go, I got my combination. And then one of the quotes was just perfect.

Booker T. Washington said, no man outside of Lincoln has done more and took more interest in the black race than Teddy Roosevelt. There you go. I'm valid. That's interesting. I mean, the book is called Teddy and Booker T., How Two American Icons Blazed a Path for Racial Equity. So what was... Equality, not equity. Equality, sorry. Equality. Equality.

What was the collision? Like, how did they get together? What did what was it that they were doing together? So interesting, because it was 1901. He got a pre-release copy of Up from Slavery, and he's reading it. And his wife's like, this is unbelievable. Tell you got to read this. He's like, this is incredible. I got to meet this guy. Two months later, they meet in Manhattan. He's vice president. He goes, listen.

What do you need? I need influence in Washington. I need people to change things in the South. They're lynching people for voting. There's poll tax. We've got to get rid of this. But you can't go beat Al Sharpton or Malcolm X because you're going to get hanged. You have to be Booker T. Washington. I know it's wrong, but Jason Chavis is cool. I'm working with Jason. I don't hate you for being a racist. I'm going to work with Jason because he's not.

and we're going to change their minds by the actions I have not by shaming you ridiculing you marginalizing you you are a victim of the society in which you were brought up but I'll change you by seeing this school thrive the preconditions that whites are smarter than blacks we know is folly but if you grow up hearing that you might think it's true right like a guy like Benjamin Franklin thought that was true the smartest man ever then grew up and go what

What are we, crazy? He became the ultimate abolitionist. So they started helping. Well, it turns out they were supposed to have a first meeting in Tuskegee. McKinley shot, gets killed. He becomes president. He goes, sorry. We have to letter. Sorry, Booker T. I got to put off my – I got to put off our meeting. He wrote him a letter saying, I'm a little busy. Yeah. He goes, well, we're going to do this. You're going to be my partner. So he ends up being a partner. He goes, I want you to give me the best judges, postmasters.

the best doc masters, everything. Don't tell me the color. Don't tell me about the color of their skin. I want the best blacks, but they got to be worthy of the position. Right. And he's like, you got it. And they become nonstop. And there's, you know, there's William Crumb story and the, and the Cox story of him sticking up for female African-Americans in the South that they want to get rid of because they don't want to visit person of color in that spot. He's like, no, I'm the president. He stays. And Booker T would stay in the South and do all this.

And famously, he went and this was referenced in John McCain's concession speech.

He said there was a time when Booker T. Washington came to the White House. It caused a national scandal because he ate with the white president's family. And now a black man will be president hosting that dinner. Remember that. And I'm going to put that in the special. And like we do stuff on TV, I'm going to roll that in because that's how much you meant. It caused a national scandal just because a black man ate with the white president's family. But Teddy Roosevelt, whose mom was from the South, whose sons, whose brothers fought the Confederacy.

He thought nothing of it. He goes, hey, why don't you come eat over and then we'll have a meeting. Yeah. Somebody looks at the guest book and says, who did he have as guests? It becomes a national scandal, the most horrific headlines you've ever seen in your life. And they had to take their relationship down underneath because obviously on certain things, America wasn't ready. But they didn't say, I hate America. They said, America's got to make some progress. Not the America that's perfect, the America I'm in in the period in which I lived, but

They weren't staring, taking down statues of the founding fathers. Right, right, right. So that, that's, that also gives me a perspective. It's just so maddening to see people judging people who live back then on the values that we supposedly have now. Now go back to the time when you actually went down there. What, what, you know, there's no replacing just physically being there. What, what, what,

What did you learn? What did you feel? Number one, we have great resources in terms of guests. I don't want another George Floyd thing to happen. I don't want another Kaepernick thing to happen. But if race becomes the number one story again, you got such a perspective on that school and what Booker T. Washington dealt with and how we are on our worst day. We're better, so much better than every other country. Most successful multicultural country in the history of the world. What I found is the actual buildings that were built with bricks that he made on his own kiln

In his own kiln, three didn't work. He had to cash in his watch to buy another fourth kiln, thankfully worked. And those bricks that were so valuable, he was able to sell as well as make buildings. He's a genius. Because why am I buying bricks? All you do is use bricks. Why don't I make my own? But he didn't know how hard it was. So he ends up doing it and then donating it to the white part of Alabama, of Tuskegee. He'd go, guys, just go to the town. They would see a wagon, courtesy of Tuskegee.

And then Mr. and Mrs. Johnson sitting down south go, is that that college? Is that that black college over there? The ones that walk around dressed to the nines, standing straight up, you know, very learned, couldn't be more polite because he taught people skills.

trade skills as well as academic skills. So going down there, seeing the archives, I think that some people perceive it, hey, you're at Fox and you think one thing. I go, no, no, I'm at Fox and I want to tell the true story of history the right way through his eyes, how he worked with Teddy Roosevelt. And they worked it out. After commencement last April, we went down there and we spent a couple of days and it was just amazing because he's buried there, his family's buried there.

And there's a statue for him there. And his presence is everywhere. And the original buildings are still standing. And you walk this campus, Jason, and it is immaculate. And there's so much pride. And I think it's underappreciated pride. I mean, I don't know why people don't talk about him. And when I find out it's really here and now, there's a lot of people in the black community who don't like Booker T. Washington because he was too accommodating. He was too understanding of separate but equal. He was too understanding of segregation Jim Crow. Hmm.

And they wanted to see more William W.E.B. Du Bois, who is more to the left. This is not right. This is not the way it should be. Let's form the NAACP and let's push back on it. And he's like, no. He lived in the North, never wasn't born a slave, was born free. Booker T. Washington could have lived a great life in Massachusetts and New York.

But he said, I'm going to go in the South because I'm from the South and I want to be there to make things better for everyone in the South. W.E. Du Bois didn't go there. He was hired at Tuskegee, didn't take the job. He ended up being a huge critic and rival of Booker T. Washington. And now today, if I went up to Al Sharpton, he doesn't like Booker T. Washington's message. You know, Bob Woodson does. Alan West probably his idol. You know, that's his attitude. And I'm not even saying that Booker T. Washington would be conservative.

But he wouldn't have been a Democrat because every Democrat was segregationist, racist. But all he cared about was the country and his people, but not more than white people. He just wanted to rise everybody up and do what the Civil War should have done.

equaled everything out, equal opportunity, but the compromise of 1876 that Bret Baier writes brilliantly about, where we couldn't pick a president, scandal in five separate states, Garfield and Samuel Tilden dead heat, and in order to do it, they cut a deal two days before the scheduled inauguration, and the deal was, I'll let Rutherford B. Hayes be president, but on the flip side, you're going to pull the Union troops out of the South and let us run our own show. So Hayes said, I'll take it. If I got your word,

that you're going to let people vote, don't roll anything back. And he gave them the word, and they broke their word. And that's why we had Jim Crow and Reconstruction derailed. And that's why I believe that if Lincoln had lived, then you hand it off to Grant. And then we don't have Andrew Johnson, we would have been a different country. Not perfect, different. Yeah, you make a great case for that. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Brian Kilmeade right after this.

Teddy and Booker T, how two American icons blazed a path for racial equality. Not equity. Yes. So the last question, one of the last questions, you're going to do a cookbook?

I will never, I will say this, Jason, I will never do a cookbook. I, um, to me, I like to order out, order in, order out. I love going out. I love to order in and order out. At the same time. I, you know, I appreciate people that cook. I know it's like my daughter loves doing it. Every like, um, I'm glad there are good people who know how to do it. Right. And like, they like it, but I can't, it's like singing. I can't sing. Right. But I love to listen. Right. And I'm a participant. Can I steal that?

Sure. Because I stole a line from the great philosopher, Brett Eldredge.

I never met a dance floor that did me any good. Because I'm a terrible dancer. Everyone's like, oh, dance. I'm like, really? I'm like, I guarantee you one thing. You'll think less of me. And then I hear that phrase in that song. I go, that's it. I go, I never did a dance. It's not going to help me to dance. Like, I know you think it's going to help me, but it's not going to help me. You have a certain image of me. You will be ruined of that image, be alleviated of that image if I dance. So for all of us, can we all collectively agree I shouldn't dance? Yes. I'm with you on that one as well. Or cook. Yes. Right.

So that's it. By the power vested in me, please don't bring me on the dance floor. Although, if my daughters get, if or when my daughters get married, I'll have to change. Okay, now that's a special moment. I got two daughters and Julie and I, and that first dance is something special. All married off. Oh, yeah. All three. We got three kids, all three marriages. That's incredible. We have four grandkids. We got one on the way. And you're younger than me. No, I probably not.

I'm 59. Yeah, I'm a little younger than you. Yeah, that's incredible. When did you get married at eight? Well, I've been married 30, I've got to get this right, 32 years. Oh, okay, 30. Yeah. Okay, so I got married, yeah, 91. Your kids got married young. Yeah, we didn't mess around. You know we live in Utah, right? I heard. Yeah, I didn't want to get too young. We start young. And you don't age.

No, no, that's just good clean liver. Good eating. Good eating. Back to eating. So are you liking the broadcasting thing as much as Congress? I love it. I mean, the people you can interact with. And you know what's funny? I think in part I have more influence being on Fox News all the time than I even did in Congress. People in Congress, the House and Senate, are so scared to death of what you're going to highlight, say, or your opinion on.

Than when I was one of 535. And look, when I was chairman of oversight, obviously had a lot of influence. This guy could direct, you know, who we were doing. I could unilaterally issue subpoenas and all that.

But I love doing this. And it's a better balance in life. It's a better balance in life. And I like the podcast because you can spend, you know, 30, 40 minutes diving deep into an issue. Yeah, the podcast is the new trend because when I first started, it was radio or TV. Right. And now it's even if we're doing a radio show, they say make sure you promote your radio show as a podcast. Unbelievable. Great audience because they get to dive deeper. If they're interested, yeah. You know, and they'll look at this and I mean...

Think of how much ground you covered in the 30 minutes. Right, as opposed to seven minutes, five minutes, four minutes. That's what we do on TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be interesting because it's going to save me because with this news cycle right now,

I've never seen anything like it. So I don't know how much I'm going to be promoting this on TV or my events. I have events. If you go to BrianKilme.com, I've lined up events almost every weekend during the day. I got these shows that I put together where I'm on stage. I talk about all the books, like How America Got Great, essentially, or ARC, and I interact with people.

That's tickets. You get a book with it, but I get a chance to meet people who do it around the country. Normally, I can mention it because Fox Nation co-produces it. Right. But it's going to be hard. They don't even have a commercial right now at Fox. They don't even take a break. On the 5 last night, I think we took one break. Yeah. Yeah. So...

Well, you're one of the hardest working guys out there. How do you do it? If you consider this work, man. No, but what people don't realize and appreciate on things like you do, I mean, you're doing three hours of Fox & Friends. You're doing three hours on the radio. Yeah.

But you've got to prep. You can't just show up and start talking. The amount of stuff you have to read, digest, consume, understand, and then be able to succinctly talk about it, that's amazing. Thanks. Yeah. And the most fun, arguably, is Saturday. Now we've been going live for the last five years. Your Saturday show? Yeah. To have a chance to do your own thing for an hour. Yeah.

You get great guests on there. I saw Peter Brady on there the other night, a couple weeks ago. The guy who played Peter Brady. Not Mike, Looking Lane. Looking Lane. I used to know all those guys. Knight.

Anyway, he was awesome. Right. He's an interesting guy. I think that he's totally comfortable. When I first started at Fox, I interviewed him, and they basically said, don't bring up the Brady Bunch. I'm like, really? You're going to put Peter up and you're not going to mention the Brady Bunch? And now they really got better. They got better at accepting who we... But don't you feel bad for them?

The Partridge Family, the Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island. Well, I feel bad that they don't make any money. That's what kills me. The Munsters, whatever it is. I watch these shows. They say Barney Miller was the number one played show forever. These guys got nothing. I know. That I feel bad for that because like Mike Lookingland, the guy who played Bobby on the... Yeah, they get like...

They don't get any sort of residuals. Yeah. And yet every person in America probably will recognize them if you put them up on the screen. And then now, yeah, that's what they're holding out for. We don't even know what's going to be happening in the future. There's still, there's an acting strike. I just, I look at television. I don't know where it's going. I don't know. Because if you remember, we used to, if they roll out a sitcom, oh, do you hear about that new show? I don't hear about new sitcoms. I don't either. What about a new series on TV? Yeah. On regular TV? No. And I wait like on,

My wife and I, whether it's Prime or Netflix, we wait till the whole series is done because then we want to kind of binge it. I can't wait for the next week. Are you kidding me? And The Chosen, that's a new model. That's going to be interesting. What is The Chosen? So The Chosen is going to- Well, I know the series, but I don't know what- What they're going to do is they're going to come out three episodes, but you go watch them in the movie theater. Then you come back a week or two later and they'll have the next three episodes, but they're available in the theater, not online. And then once they get through that, then they'll put them out.

That's a different model to try to drive people into the movie. When's the last time you went to a movie in the theater? Me, it was Maverick, Top Gun. Because I felt like, okay, that's one I really want to see on a big screen. I saw that. And then I made it. I went and saw Mission. And one time, Dawn and I were just determined to see a movie. Right. And I already saw Oppenheimer. So she's like, great. What else? Mission Impossible. Right.

I'm the guy, I never know, you know when they subtly tell you what happens in this is Great Revolution? I never understand it. I'm like, what just happened? Like, why are they happy? So I thought, totally a waste of time. Mission Impossible. It looks like they, it looked like... It was about 40 minutes too long. It's almost a parody, yeah. But I am a huge Tom Cruise fan. I appreciate his work ethic.

I appreciate it. He's a great actor. He's the movie star, I think, of at least my generation. I feel like, yeah. He had that period of time with you. But you're much older than I am. Maybe you have somebody else. Right. I know you're a big Jane Fonda fan. Yes. Elektra Korsman was probably one of your favorites. I've never seen that. It's back out on Netflix. The only movie I watched of hers was on Golden Pond because I heard her dad and her didn't get along.

And I go, I want to see if I can pick that up. See if I can pick that up in the movie. Do you remember on Golden Pond? Henry Fonda. Yeah, Henry Fonda. Yeah. That's actually a good show. Not that I saw it 40 years ago. One of the things I did that made America great, I went on to the campus, the movie theater campus.

The movie studio campus right behind the Fox Sports building. Oh. Do you ever see that? Never been there. If you go to Los Angeles, we have the movie studio. Rupert Murdoch, when he sold the movie, said, I still want the movie set. Oh, really? So you could go in there and you could be in the middle of a jungle one minute, the middle of a winter in the next, 1940s city street. Cool.

But you see all the great stars. It was almost like sports. It's like, who signed Marilyn Monroe? Who signed Henry Fonda? Remember she was with us? So you see where they lived. Like, you see that... Who's Shirley Temple? Shirley Temple is the number one box office star at like eight years old. So they used to... They built her a house. They built all these people's houses that they lived on. And I'm saying to myself, wow, it's almost as if they stopped playing football. They just stopped that. So now...

Is there anybody, you know, Nicolas Cage or Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt? Yeah, a little bit. I don't know what studio they belong to. You know, I don't know. Back then it was go sign these guys and we'll go find movies for them. So they just stopped that. I did listen to the book The Boys, which is Ron Howard and his brother's story. How was that?

Fabulous. Loved it. And it was kind of that. Gentleman. I literally would like walk to the studio type of thing. And my backyard was all these movie sets. And, you know, Ron Howard, that was a good, good book. It's called The Boys. I see it was a bestseller for like a year.

And I said to myself, I got to read it. It's really good. But I do think that... The audio is even better. Did you record the audio for your book? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's good. Did you find that he's way left? Did he bring up his politics in it? A little bit. And he is. And that kind of bothers me. But you know what? His life story and what he went through. And I love Andy Griffith. I just think that had a good set of stories for young people growing up. Still does. Is it true in Happy Days...

They wanted to make Ron Howard the middle of it and end up being Fonzie and bother him. He talks about it. Yeah. He talks about it. He talks about it fondly. Cause I really do think he likes Henry Winkler, but they, he, Ron Howard was the center of that show. And then, and then all of a sudden they introduced this Fonzie character and they could tell cause they would do personal appearances back then. Every girls, everybody was going crazy for Fonzie and Ron Howard was just kind of an afterthought after a while. But,

he sort of embraced it. Yeah, you have to. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. That's it. We're done. No band. They'll add that later. It's incredible. So should I pretend like I'm listening to the theme music? Wow. That's really impressive. And then gradually it's going to get louder. Yeah. It's sort of like the Florida state marching band that you see at the halftime. Very loud, very deliberate. A lot of percussion. Yes. A lot of drums. Yes. Yeah. It's, it's impressive. Thanks so much for having me on. Thank you. See, this is why I love Brian.

I mean, he's got like he just unbelievable stories, right? He can not only historical stories, stories about himself,

His memory, his ability to articulate them fast. I just, Brian is just one of a kind and thrilled that he would come sit with us. I hope you enjoyed it. Hope you can actually rate this podcast. Subscribe to the podcast. We're going to have another exciting guest coming on next week. But I also want to remind people, you can listen to ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts.

And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. Again, rate it, subscribe to it. Join us again next week. Thanks for joining us on Jason in the House. I'm Jason Chaffetz.

Pull up a chair and join me, Rachel Campos Duffy, and me, former U.S. Congressman Sean Duffy, as we share our perspective on the discussions happening at kitchen tables across America. Download From the Kitchen Table, The Duffys, at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you download podcasts.