Reminiscing On The Wonder Years 52:47

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Welcome to the Jason in the house podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz and this week we're gonna talk to a special guest. This guy is just a good friend of mine. None of you know who this person is. Well, maybe his family and you know my brother and others may know who he is. But we're talking a handful of people. Most of you never heard of the guy. He's just a wonderful human being. Funny as can be and just a lot of fun to be in. Wicked super smart and

And I just think it'd be good to kind of tap into a banter that we have on a regular basis. There's so many times that I've chatted with this guy, John Shaver, and John and I have just chatted either online, texting, emailing, phone conversations in person. And yeah, just, I always, so many times I thought back, this would be really entertaining if somebody was listening to this, because it really is kind of a walk down memory lane. I kind of call this the Wonder Years podcast.

because we're going to talk about life in America, growing up, what it was like, what it should be like. I think you're really going to enjoy it. Now, I'm going to touch on some things on the news, and we're going to talk about stupid because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. But then we're going to get into this podcast with John Shaver. All right. First, I want to talk about what's going on in the news. And again, some stories that maybe slipped under the radar. You're paying attention, but did you really see this and highlight this?

There is a notice that was put out by the federal government. I read about this on FoxNews.com, and it was about the immigration naturalization test. So the way this works is when you're going to become a citizen, you have a potential of 100 different questions. And then they take 10 of those questions at random.

And you have to get six of the 10 that they choose out of the 100. You got to get those correct. And the way it works is those questions are asked orally. And then you have to kind of almost in essay verbal format, give the answers. But now what the government's doing under Biden and Harris, are we making the country better or worse? They've decided to redo the test so that they can just do it as multiple choice. Yeah.

That just isn't right. You know, you're trying to become a citizen of the United States of America. And what are they trying to fix? Or are they trying to make it easier and push more people through? I think you know where I think this is. And I just think it's wrong. I also want to highlight something that actually went well. Not everything has to be a disaster that we talk about. Now, at the United Nations, and I got to tell you, I got a lot of problems, a lot of challenges, a lot of questions for the United Nations. But

The UN Women's Rights Commission voted 29 to 8 with 16 abstentions. Think about it, 16 people or countries didn't vote. But they voted to expel the Islamic Republic of Iran for the remainder of its 2022 to 2026 term. It's the first time in UN history that a member state has been removed from the body.

Now, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan went on to say, the United States is working with our allies and partners around the world to hold Iran accountable for the abuses it is committing against its own people, notably peaceful protesters, women and girls. You know what? When something goes right and things are moving in the right direction, we should applaud that, pat them on the back. And you know what?

Glad they finally voted those people off. I can't believe that Iran is allowed to be on the Women's Rights Commission. My goodness. Glad they're making that small but notable change.

I also wanted to highlight Survivor. I think it's like the 43rd episode of, not episode, but season of Survivor. Now, I remember the early days of Survivor. Love that show. I've watched a bit here and there, but man, it's been on for years now. Well, I'm not sure how to pronounce his name. I'm sure somebody will correct me here. Mike Gabler? Gabler?

G-A-B-L-E-R? Gabler, I think, is his last name. What a guy. He is a heart valve specialist. I don't know if that means he's a doctor or what he is in the process. I'm just reading about it. He's age 52. Well, he won. He went out, beat everybody on the CBS show. And he talked about, look, if I win, I'm going to donate all this money.

But when he ended up being essentially the sole survivor, the winning survivor, he followed through on that. He's donating his entire $1 million prize to veterans. What a good guy. He didn't just talk about it and use it as a ploy to try to win. He's actually making that donation. The $1 million is going to veterans causes. Good for a survivor, better for Mike Gabler for actually donating

following through and doing that. It's so easy to put the money in his pocket. I think most of us, I mean, would you do that? I tell what a good guy, good heart worth noting. All right. Now I want to talk about something that really did touch my heart. And I hope that I can get this guy on a podcast because in 2006,

I saw this initially on Instagram, then I've read more about it, then I went and did some research, I watched some YouTube videos, I looked at their website, and I really want to learn more about this. It's called Morgan's Wonderland. And for those of you in San Antonio, Texas, you probably already know what this is. But in 2006, Gordon Hartman observed that his daughter Morgan, she wanted to play with other kids that were vacationing at a hotel swimming pool.

But Morgan has some developmental issues, some disabilities that may or may not be so obvious to people. And it kind of touched his heart that she wasn't able to play and do things maybe that other kids were able to do.

So fortunately for all of us in this world, Gordon Hartman has been very successful and knows how to build a business and make money because Gordon, wanting to help his daughter Morgan, created Morgan's Wonderland. He spent over $50 million on it.

And he built essentially a theme park or a place where people could go if you're disabled, abled, whatever you are, where every kid can enjoy it. If you're in a wheelchair, this is a place you can go and enjoy the water and enjoy all kinds of stuff. One third of the staff are special needs staff. They've had over 2 million visitors come through this.

They opened up the ultra accessible theme park and expanded to Morgan's Inspiration Island, which was named the 2018 World's Greatest Places on the list by Time Magazine. And their mission is one of total inclusion. The park strives to bring together guests of all ages, all abilities through the power of inclusive play.

I'm telling you, Morgan's Wonderland, I'd never heard of it, but it's the way things should be. And if you watch that video, you'll get tears in your eyes. And I want to talk to this guy, Gordon, and just pat him on the back and hear how he did it because he built something that, gosh, I wish every community had. But certainly good for those people in Texas and those that can get down there and enjoy it. It's touched literally over 2 million visitors' hearts along the way. Good for them. All right. So on the other end of the spectrum,

Time to bring on the stupid because you know what? There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. Well, Jesse Waters, the primetime Jesse Waters program. I watched this and I thought, all right, that's worth repeating because that's just downright stupid. The residents in Dedham, Massachusetts. I think that's how you said it. You pronounce the name of that city. The Endicott Branch Library decided to forego putting up their annual Christmas tree because

But, you know what? They thought it might offend somebody. So, of course, they did the politically correct woke thing and just decided not to do a Christmas tree. Well, then the citizens said, no, we got enough of that. And then Jesse Waters highlighted it. And then, oh, did they get a barrage. So much so that it brought the Christmas tree back. So, yeah.

Good job, because you know what? Endicott Branch Library, I hope you got a taste of some medicine that says, you know what? You don't have to be so woke in everything you do. And you know what? Putting up a Christmas tree at the public library, as you've done for years, isn't going to offend anybody. Certainly not in the United States of America. And that is just bringing on the stupid. All right, let's move on. I'm really looking forward to this discussion. So let's give a ring to John Shaver.

Hello. John Shaver. This is Jason Chaffetz. Congressman, how are you today? Hey, I appreciate you joining me. This is going to be a little different. A little bit, a little different for you, a little different for me. Glad to be here. Well, look, I have enjoyed through the years your, the wit and wisdom of John Shaver and just the interaction that we've had online, text, talking, whatever. And so I just kind of want to talk about, I don't know, I kind of was thinking like

At the end of the year, beginning of the next, it's good to kind of look back and, you know, I'm getting a little older. And you know what, John, you're getting a little older, too. You know, that happens. And it seems like every day I just get a little bit older and it just happens. So, you know, when I was a little kid, I was pretty happy because I had a big wheel.

And I would ride this thing around. And it literally, for those of you who don't know what a big wheel is, it literally was a self-propelled three-wheeler with a big wheel in the front and two small ones on the back and a brake. So I could skid. And an adjustable seat with a saddleback. Yeah. I forgot about the adjustable seat because I – yeah. Yeah.

And do you remember, I mean, you were one of the kids I envied. I would have done just about anything for a big wheel. And then the redeeming factor about a big wheel was it had absolutely zero traction. Yes, that's right. That's how you could skate real well. That's good. Right. The spin out lever. And then it was eclipsed.

by the technological masterpiece, although sometimes looked down upon by purists, the green machine. Yeah, you know, the green machine was really ahead of its time because everybody's gone green, gone woke, but the green machine was self-propelled way back then, although all made out of plastic. Indeed it was. But it truly was, I mean, a flexible body machine

masterpiece, but it also introduced stability, which was a big loss over the big wheel. Good point. I also enjoyed Army Men. I think my favorite toy was a Stretch Armstrong, but that's a little different than the toys that we have today. Indeed. I, too, had a Stretch Armstrong. That was something else. And, you know, the toys back then, they really required a lot more imagination, right? Yeah.

and involvement. You brought the story, right? You made it happen versus some of the toys today that just kind of spoon feed you the story and don't require that same level of engagement that we had as kids. Yeah, I mean like army men and monkeys in a barrel. I would set them up. I would throw dirt clods at them. Oh yeah.

You know, I would do everything I could to blow them up, run them over. I had Matchbox. How about Mattel football? Oh, no, I did have that. That was kind of the first foray into electronics. You could go up. They had three spaces, right? Three spaces. Vertical. The top, the middle, and the bottom. And then you could go up.

East-west, depending on which way you were doing, and you had to avoid the defenders, and it made those obnoxious sounds. And then you had to run the same section of field over and over and over again to get to the inside. It's sort of like real football. Right?

But John Madden wasn't a video game. John Madden was on the sidelines and then in the sports, you know, up in the booth as only John Madden could be. That's the real Madden, not the Madden whatever they're doing now. True, true. Bam and boom. That Mattel football, again, you were given, your players were red dots.

Bright red or not quite so bright red. Yes. Right. Right. Exactly. And then it was replaced by football too, which is,

Do you remember what Football 2 added over football? No, I don't. I don't remember that. Passing. Forward passing. Oh, that's right. Passing. I remember the original Atari. I remember being able to play Pong. Play Pong. Yeah. Pong was good. Yeah, absolutely. The 2600 was good. And then, of course, you learned about it all through the Sears catalog. Yeah, Sears catalog. You got to see a little bit of everything, including some scantily clad people.

You got to see all the games. You got to see, like, they had ping pong tables. And they had, you know, fashion. It was very fashion forward. Tough skins were in there. I would dare say that the Sears catalog was the internet of our day. You know, I heard this great comedian. It was actually a couple different comedians. And it really did make me smile. And they said, you know, back in the day, everybody who was rich...

Well, everybody had a horse and then only the rich people had cars. Now it's the other way around. Everybody has a car and only the rich people have horses. And then I heard another one say, which is Charlie cracking me up. He said, you know, the newspaper just got, they just got screwed because everybody,

If the internet had been invented first and somebody came to you at the business plan and said, hey, you know what we're going to do? We're going to take everything on the internet, take the best of news, sports, weather, crime, state legislature. We're going to take box scores. We're going to take people who die. We're going to print it out on a piece of paper, and we're going to put it out on your front porch table.

You don't have to plug it in. You can use in the birdcage at the end. That would be all the rage. Everybody like, Hey, I want one of those. I don't want to have to surf the whole internet and carry an iPad and whatever else. I just want to have this little piece of paper I can fold under my arm. It's the cosmology of it all. You know, the universe expands, it contracts, it expands, it contracts. It just, you know, I think the newspaper will have its day again. Yeah. But you know, there's something I did the time growing up. It was a,

And I'm sure every generation says that, right? Everybody, oh, it was a simpler time. I mean, I remember I could go out, ride my bike, run around. It didn't, you know, it got dark. I got hungry. I went in. That was, it was that simple. That was the connecting feature of our time, of our generation, which was the bicycle. And I listened to your show a couple of weeks ago with Tyrus and, uh,

You talk about a kid who had a completely different upbringing than I did, and I know you did as well. And what a story he has. And when he got to California, he tells all these tales, but the bicycle was the one thing that tied it all together. And I recently had a chance to go with my sons back to the hometown where I grew up in the Midwest.

And I drove them around and I said, you know, we used to do this. And then I would come over to my friend's house over here. And then we would go to the creek over here. And they looked at me with amazing wide eyes and they'd say, how did you get from here to there and back again? And I'd explain the bicycle. And they thought that was the biggest shaggy dog story they had ever heard. What kind of bike did you have, John?

Oh, great question. You know, always had the dream bike was the Stingray, right? Yeah, baby. But I never had the Stingray. I always had hand-me-down bikes. I had my father's old three-speed, which looked like an English Bobby bicycle, and it held together like a champ. I'm pretty sure it was made from a melted old battleship.

And weighed somewhere around 65 pounds. Yeah. You know, it weighed about as much as I did. And you're right. So I had a bike. I went everywhere. I abused this thing. They built bikes strong back then, you know. They sure did. And Huffy and...

But when we my brother I had a young brother Alex, you know Alex really well You even know Alex probably better than you know me anyway, we we when we lived in Scottsdale, Arizona Love it. I remember wearing short pants to school and this has got to be like Great middle of grade six all the way through grade 11, you know, so I was a junior in high school and

And certainly the younger part of that, that time, um, I would wear shorts every single day, but when it got really cold, I had a down coat that I wore with my short pants, which I'm sure was very fashion forward. And, um, but there we lived in an, we had a gated community and, um,

There was a wall that I've gone back and looked at, and it's a good solid six feet tall. I'm 6'2", but I wasn't back then. The only way for me to get to school at Cocoa Paw, for those of you familiar with Scottsdale, I had to throw my bike over the fence. And, you know, I had...

biceps that were, you know, size of pencils. And I don't know how I learned to do it. It's probably my weightlifting regimen. Somehow I had to lift that thing. I'd throw my backpack over. I'd throw the bike over. I don't every day, twice a day, right? Cause I had to come back and I don't know how the bike survived it, but man, I threw my bike over that wall for years. And it might, I can't believe that never became an Olympic sport. Yeah, it really should be.

And I also pity the kids on the other side. Well, Alex always believed that we should have the Olympics, but just the juice games, you know, if you're taking steroids, go ahead. It's your choice. If you decide to do that, let's see how fast, how high a guy could actually jump. How fast can he actually run? Yeah, that would be entertaining.

You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with John Shaver right after this.

Okay, so let's go back. Let's put on a little philosophical hat here. Times have changed. There's a lot more stress. Kids are growing up in this electronic age where they have every sin and every...

problem at their fingertips, you know, with just the stroke of a few letters. And yet they're missing so much of the ability to actually just kind of learn and meld and mold and try and entertain for themselves and be with friends and buddies with nothing more than, you know, the outdoors. Yeah.

I do worry about that and I do believe it is shaping our world today and lost or in the process of being lost is that ability to interact and to do it

not only with the idea in mind that you want to get a message across, but also learning something in return and sometimes having those conversations that may go in any possible direction or interactions in any possible direction. And people have, you know, no surprise to anyone as we've become more polarized these days.

That ability to communicate freely and openly and to succeed and fail and mend fences and forgive and interact. And I see it in the business world a lot. I have a new generation of people coming up that love to IM but are afraid to pick up the phone and call somebody and haven't helped you to actually go meet with them face to face.

And I believe that's a dying art within our society. No, I think that's true. You know, there were a lot of awkward, weird things you had to do. I remember, I think it was called Cotillion, where the girls had, like, practiced dancing for a whole lunchtime. Oh, yes. I had to go dance.

My mom said, look, I'm going to give you some basic moves and then you're going to go. Then you get, I'm like, I didn't want to do any of that. But you know, if she kind of forced me to do it and not that I can dance at all today, but I'm ingrained and stamped in my memory having to go do that. But I also sports to me was like my outlet sports to me was where I, I got myself away from a lot of trouble and,

But I had these interactions with people, particularly because my sport was soccer. I played soccer with all kinds of different people that I would have never spent time with and cherished and been buddies with and shared oranges at halftime with.

When you look back at it, there's probably very few games you remember, but it's the interaction with your co-players that really are what carried you forward and the lessons you learned and the bonds that you built. Did you play sports? I did. And probably the worst sport for interactive skills, and that's swimming. And we were at the pool three hours a day, two hours in the morning and one hour in the evening.

So your conversations consisted of five second quips between sets. And so it wasn't very conversive. But at the same time, the friendships that we built still last to these days. In fact, when I was back in Illinois, I was mostly swimming friends.

that I visited with. And it was the same thing. It was a great melting pot. Swimming is a cheap sport to play because you need a swimsuit and a pair of goggles and a ride, generally speaking. And unlike I had friends who played hockey who needed a new set of gear every year,

My parents couldn't afford that. But swimming threw us in there with all the other kids who just needed two pieces of equipment and off the races. So we had

you know, everywhere, every size, every background type of kid who was participating in swimming. And some were good, some were great. And then there was myself somewhere in the middle. Tell me about the first job you had. Where were you growing up, by the way? I grew up in a great place. It was a...

best of places. It was the worst of places. It was the best of places because it was right smack dab in the middle of the Midwest in Illinois. It was a small town of normal Illinois, which, you know, I always thought was ironically named. We had two universities and

So it was a great influx of ideas and crossroads of thinking. And that spilled over. One of the colleges, Illinois State University, was one of the better teaching schools. So we had great teachers in the school system. And I really didn't get to appreciate that until I moved away in high school. And that was the good part. The bad part was, boy, it was just flat Midwest cornfields.

And it was boring as could be. But at the same time, it taught me to be creative and to use that imagination and to go out and explore. And as you can imagine, as I got older and got the means to do those types of things and question things and learn things, it really impressed upon me on how fortunate it

every interaction is with every individual to be humble, you know, from humble roots and to really engage with people and learn something from everyone that you engage with. What was your, what was your first job, John? I'm right in line with that. $2 an hour. Yeah. Pulling weeds. Yeah. Big money pulling, pulling weeds. Yeah. So going out there with the little fork tool on the sidewalk, uh,

pulling the grass out, pulling the weeds out, getting that first paycheck, $24, learning who FICA, FUDA, and SUDA are, and why were they digging into my $24. And it really made me appreciate the need for physical conservancy in government spending. Yeah, you know, my first job, I

And I've told this story before, but basically my dad said, hey, you know what? You're going to get a job. I said, well, I don't know how to get a job, which fell right into his lap. And he said, well, we have this newspaper and see all this thing. These are all jobs. So you start calling until you find one. And I was excited because as advertised, this job only was until noon. And I thought that was great. And so I called the guy and I got the job, just a few conversations with him.

And then my dad said, well, where is it? What time do you show up? Like, how do you get there? And so I had to call the guy back, ask him all the basics. And I didn't realize he picked me up at 3 a.m. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I guess it was 4 a.m. Anyway, it was one of the two is like ridiculous. You know, I was like 4 a.m. It was like four to noon. It was like 4.

And it was picking weeds in Arizona in the summer. That's why we had to start to early because it's a blazing hot. And he said, wear jeans, wear a long sleeve shirt, wear a hat because you're going to be in the cactus all day. And that's when I realized, John, that I was, you know, a blue. I was not a blue collar guy. I was a white collar guy. And my dad and I said, I told my dad I wanted to quit. And my dad said, well, you can't quit until you find another job. I said, well, how do I find myself another job? And he said, well, make yourself more valuable.

If you're more valuable, you make more money, you probably get a better job. And so I did. I found one and I worked at the General Cinema Corporation. Yes, I remember this. You not only took tickets, but ran the projector and the snack bar, correct? Yes, I was a multifaceted individual at the age of 14. You were a pioneer in multitasking. Oh, yeah. I worked there in Paradise Valley Mall.

And I remember as Star Wars came out and we had to like, holy cow, the lines. And I had to keep people in the stanchions and keep them moving. And then I had to clean up these theaters. And I had this moped that I had to take. My parents were tired of picking me up at 1.30 in the morning or whatever it was. So they bought me a moped, a used moped. Now, folks, these are not Vespas, okay? This is not your local, you know, little motorbike.

We're talking, this thing had pedals. And if you really ran, you could run faster than this thing. And I still remember the street where they had these dogs that were outside at night and they would always chase me. And I, you could see it coming. It was just like right out of the movies. Like, oh crap here. Cause I cannot believe I didn't wipe out. Cause he'd be nipping at me. I'd be honking my horn. I'd be trying to dodge him, but I pushing the gas as fast as I could.

And this is just one of the great experience looking back. That's the gift of melancholy. That was so fun. And you know, I did that and I, I helped hang a wallpaper. Now my contribution to helping hang wallpaper was carrying buckets up. And remember those toothpick, a pencil size bicep size telling you about, yeah, right. Going up three floors in Arizona in the summer, no air conditioning, hollowed

hauling up a big bucket of water. I'm talking big bucket here. Killed me. I was just like my hands, my fingers were like going to fall off. But you know what? Even though I think my job at General Cinema Corporation, they were paying me $2.88 an hour. I remember seeing up on the wall there,

this thing that said that it was minimum wage. And I'm going to get the number wrong, folks, but it was like $335,000. And I'm making $288,000. It's something like that. It was $365,000. Something like that. So I go home and I tell my dad, I said, Dad, how come I don't make minimum wage? I don't know. Why don't you ask Mr. Hobie? He's your boss.

So I go back in, I said, Mr. Hobie, how come I don't make the minimum wage? And he said, we're in the entertainment industry. We don't, that doesn't apply to us. And later when I was in Congress, I figured out that that's true. Oh my. Yeah. I'm sure watching you carry buckets upstairs was pretty entertaining too. Yeah. Well, that one was not as fun because there weren't very many cute girls coming in and out. Like the movie theater had some,

Some, you know, some people coming through. And I always thought I looked pretty dapper in that Navy or that powder blue blazer. Yeah. Short sleeve, clip on bow tie. Something about a man in uniform. That's a magnet right there. Well, there were many, uh,

menial jobs that followed the wheat picking business um and probably it is the stair step to greater things isn't it it was and it did lead to a business uh veteran when i was in college uh much to anybody who knows me now chagrin was that i became a breakfast cook really and um

I would work from six in the morning till nine in the morning. Of course, you know, I had to be there at 530, but work those hours. And then two days a week, I had a class that

That was an hour and a half long that I would have to leave the restaurant in a full sprint. They gave me a five minute head start and hustle across campus to get to this hour and a half long class. Now, the bad part about it was I smell like.

I smelled like bacon. I smelled like eggs. I was covered in a patina of breakfast preparation. And I sat next to a young man named Peter Freund, who was the backup quarterback on the University of Illinois football team. So and years of football player, you knew that Illinois in the 80s coming off the Rose Bowl was a

Class A team and Peter was six foot four and I got to know him over the course of the semester. And he would tell me, he said, John, they like me on the football team. They like me as quarterback because I can see over the line because I'm so tall, but they don't like that. I am, you know, only way about 190 pounds. So they

put me at the training table every day and they feed me and they feed me and they feed me until literally I am sick and can eat no more. And I leave there. I feel horrible. I come to class. I sit next to you. And about 45 minutes later, I start getting hungry again.

And it was all because I smelled like bacon. Needless to say, that was not a good semester for me. You know, not that I just sit and listen to comedians all day, but there are some memorable lines there. And I remember him talking about bacon. And this guy's saying, bacon's got to really stand up for himself. I mean, why is it not taking itself as top billing? Nobody else in the food market does this.

It's a BLT? Come on, America. That's a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich? That is a bacon sandwich. Don't tell me it's a bacon, lettuce, and tomato. It's a bacon sandwich. Be honest. And I thought it was... It's a fantastic product that brings us all together. Who doesn't like... I love bacon. Bacon goes with just about everything. It goes on pizza. It goes on eggs. It goes on toast. And it's just good by itself. Yeah.

No complaints about bacon. Well, you know how to cook it. That's good. All right. I've got that going for me. All right. Let's go to today and today's generation because, you know, the fine arts of making bacon, popping popcorn, doing those types of things. I do worry that there's this generation that has got this immediacy to it.

That everything's just right in the palm of their hand. They can just, you know, fire up that phone, get whatever they can order, whatever they want to do. They can see whatever they want to see. They can communicate. They can educate. They can do, I mean, you can do a lot of good, but you can do a lot of bad. And without going through and having the types of experiences. And I don't know, how do you, how do you view this latest generation and what are your concerns for it?

That's a great question. You know, you're absolutely right. There's a lot of immediacy and immediate gratification there. Obviously, we talked about, you know, growing up, earning something. I think your father did a wonderful job raising you and showed you how you stair-step growth.

from one place to the next. You may have setbacks, but you need to move yourself forward. And ultimately, it's you that is personally accountable for your own success. I fear that, you know, not every child gets that. I try and drive it into my kids. I don't know how to make other parents successful in that. Some kids get it.

Some kids don't. And, you know, it's incumbent upon us and the success of the nation to have kids that, you know, are willing to take the hard work, to take the steps, to have what we call grit, to get knocked down and who aren't afraid to pursue success, but also aren't afraid to,

face failure and pick themselves up. And we live in a world that doesn't necessarily appreciate that like it used to. We tend to take people who work hard and climb the ladder. And now we call them out for somehow having things that we don't have. And rather than appreciating the hard work that they've put into getting to where they are,

We sometimes claim that they've had some sort of unfair advantage. And in some cases, that's the truth. There are no absolutes. But it would be nice to get back to have some of that appreciation for, I think, what Roosevelt called rugged individualism and to not necessarily make our rock stars about people who are on TikTok and

and are influencers, but instead people who have really embraced hard work and done it the way that, I don't want to date myself by saying the old fashioned way, but doing it the way that tends to work. Like that old saying goes, you know, the harder I work, the luckier I get. I have concerns that kids don't necessarily appreciate the value of a good day's work.

Yeah, you know, and where I see it manifest itself as scary as a nation, for me personally, I worry about our military. We just seem to try to dumb it down. We're trying to lessen the requirements, make it easier, make it more politically correct, spend billions of dollars trying to make sure we got the great green fuel instead of focusing on what we're really supposed to be doing with our United States military. And I don't know how you view it, but it really does worry me.

It is concerning. In fact, I think CNN has a story today about –

a good majority of Americans who cannot pass a physical fitness test. Those are types of things where PE is optional in my kids' school anymore and is being replaced by other needs or other classes, I should say, is certainly concerning. And, you know, there are some things that are just basic and taking care of yourself and knowing what the real world expects of you

are two things that every child needs. Yeah, it's okay for it to be hard and difficult. And I saw this, I can't remember who said it, but they were talking about how the majority of people just believe that they're above average. And it's like, wait a sec, how's that kind of, it's like in the federal workforce. And again, the numbers are close, but I don't have my cheat sheet in front of me.

I remember talking to the Office of Personnel Management, somebody from OPM, as they called it. And it was something like 70% of the federal workforce got a bonus. Now, we all pay for that as taxpayers, right? But they all got a bonus. And I said, well, what's the purpose of a bonus? And they said, well, we take extraordinary effort and extraordinary competency and everything else, and we reward that.

And so you're telling me that 70% of the people are above average. Is that what you're trying to tell me? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, wait, can you explain how, how does that work? How is it that 70% of the people are above 50%? Like I just, it just was mind boggling to me that that was the attitude and the approach. It's like everybody wins a trophy. That, uh, well, uh, you're the soccer player. Yeah.

Well, yes. You know, when my time as goalie and my time in the midfield was pivotal to our victories. But we did win. I played for the Thors, and we were pretty good. The Thors were very potent in our pink uniforms. We have pink and blue. It sounds like a disaster in the laundry room. Nobody threw a red sock at me. Yeah.

Yes, I have a picture to prove it. But I was talking about the military because my concern is that we're supposed to fight and win wars and get warriors out there on the battlefield instead of saying, well, sit up, sir. You know, we don't have to do as many of those as we suggested. Just, you know.

Yeah, it is concerning. And I do believe the military is looking for a balance of recruitment numbers. And, you know, machines certainly play a bigger role in things. But I absolutely grasp your concern that, you know, when it comes to a military, it's...

sometimes it's the fight and the dog as you say and what you see over in the ukraine where there you see folks that are motivated to protect their homelands their way of life their freedoms and um they're bringing the fight to the fight and uh it does make you wonder though if uh especially what you read about our military if some of the socially focused programs are time well spent you know historically

The military, especially when I was growing up, prior to I was growing up in the 50s, it was the great integrator in the 40s as well. It was a head of many organizations socially to bringing folks together. It was a great educator, the GI Bill.

brought a lot of people to education. But first and foremost, it was a fighting machine, right? Yeah. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation right after this. I want to talk about just one more thing as we kind of go through this. And it's something that was so core to who we were when I was growing up, but it's like, eh, it's totally optional now.

That patriotism, love of country, love of the flag, standing for the flag, saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. It's like now we go and I hear schools, you know, now we do it once a week. It's just like, oh, we just kind of check the box. And it's just it really does bother me that we even have a discussion in this country. Like I really it's mind blowing to me that we have to have.

a discussion about whether or not the flag unites us or divides us. And I'm like, okay, you don't like the United States of America. You don't have to live here. You can go live somewhere else, but it's given you so much opportunity and so much of a voice. And so, and, and look, people have it more difficult and some people have it easier. I get that, but that's,

The opportunity to succeed is there. And some people say, well, I don't start in the same place that you did growing up in a nice place. I get that. But the equalizer is the opportunity to get an education, pull yourself up by the bootstraps. And even if you do have privilege, it doesn't mean you're going to succeed. You could fail really hard if you don't do the right things.

Yeah, I could have butchered the statement, but somewhere I heard along the line, it said we're all created equal. It's what we do from that creation point forward that makes the difference. And I hear what you're saying. There are elements of our society that teach our kids that, you know, you don't have a fair shot. You're not going to make it. But I hate to put that burden on a child. Yeah.

you'll find, you know, I always look at successful people and say, what do they have in common? And, you know, they can be wildly different people and wildly different stories and actually wildly different definitions of success. But all of them at least brought one thing to the table, and that's optimism. And it's the belief that they could succeed. I think that your brother Alex and I deal with not as much as we used to, but a lot of entrepreneurs. And it's that belief

What do they have that others don't? And the common theme I've found is that they can't believe that they can fail. They believe that their ideas are so good that they would, why can't anybody else understand that? And it's that unbridled optimism that they have to succeed. There's no other option. It would be insane to think otherwise.

that seems to pull them all together. And there always will be exceptions. But that belief that you are able to succeed is so common among successful people. And you're absolutely right. We live in a nation where you are allowed to succeed. I would tend to believe that government is more in an impediment, impediment,

than it's ever been. My son, who is a little bit of a, has that unbridled enthusiasm and unchecked willingness to succeed that a 15 year old can only have. And doesn't necessarily have a strong appreciation for some of the obstacles, has told me that he's wanted to start little companies all along. And most of them are pretty good ideas and he's willing to put in the work to make them happen. But

But when I start to explain to him the need to incorporate and what it takes to file at the Secretary of State's office and the filing of taxes and the need for separation of finances and the risks and liability, of course, things, I really feel like the downer for the kid. And it's a shame in that regards that...

A government of people for the people should be encouraging the people and providing the people opportunity, not obstacles to succeed. And that is unfortunate. But again, in that unbridled enthusiasm, he still wants to proceed.

which of course means I do a lot of paperwork for them. That's good. That's good. And, uh, no commingling of funds. You get to invest without. Yes, that's good. Yes, that's right. And for a kid to go in and ask for a business account at the bank is quite an experience. I might add. Yeah, no, it's, it's true. It's amazing that you go through school like you do, and they don't teach you the basics of like, Hey, let's talk about balancing a checkbook, you know? And, uh,

Let's talk about finance and let's break down. Okay, when you make $10, how much did you really make? Right. Like, wait, what? I made $10. It's $10 an hour. I made $10. Like, really? How much do you actually put in your pocket? Yeah, you know. And so, and then you break it all down. Like, oh, well, okay, I got to work harder. I got to do more. So-

John, thank you so much for joining me. I do appreciate it. I've enjoyed our friendship along the way and just chatting with you and sharing goofy stuff that we see on the internet and whatnot. But, you know, I hope everybody that's listening here just, they take a time and reflect and just say, hey, you know, why do I believe what I believe? And I think that

You can't just do that every day, but you don't want to just do it at New Year's. But New Year's is a good time to reflect and remember all the good, fun things, but also the hardships that people go through. Because I think those are the things that give you character and backbone. They can chew you up and spit you out, but they can also make you a better, more loving person. And all the...

you know, now that I'm getting older, I think of all the hard things that we go have going on now and that we've done in the past. But I think, yeah, you know, those, those are the life experiences and everybody has those. It's not just you. And it could be anybody from, you know, having to deal with mental health or drug or financial issues or

addiction issues or accidents that happen. All of these things impact their lives in such a way. Anyway, John, I've appreciated our friendship and as we turn the corner into 2023, hard to believe,

There's always going to be somebody stupid doing something, somebody doing something stupid somewhere. But there's also inspirational stories and things to bring us together. And anyway, I hope that's what you get out of this podcast. And John, I appreciate you joining us today. Jason, the same. And I appreciate our friendship as well. Wish you a successful new year, too.

All right. I want to thank everybody for joining us. I want to thank you, John Shaver, and all those memories and laughs and growing up and talking about the way things should be and used to be. And I hope you had a smile along the way. I want to remind you that you can listen to Ad Free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show Ad Free on the Amazon Music app. I would appreciate it if you could rate this thing.

That would be great. Always important to write a review and go over to FoxNewsPodcast.com if you want to hear others from the Fox family doing their own podcast.

Really do appreciate it. We'll be back next week as we kind of get into the rotation here of bringing on some guests and talking about what's going on in the world, how they brought things together, how they make good things happen, and what they went through in order to do it. I really do appreciate it. Thanks for your time. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and this has been Jason in the House.

From the Fox News Podcasts Network, subscribe and listen to the Trey Gowdy Podcast. Former federal prosecutor and four-term U.S. Congressman from South Carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind podcast. Subscribe and listen now by going to foxnewspodcasts.com.