U.S. Senator James Lankford: Finding A Spiritual Balance In Life 48:40

It's time to take the quiz. Five questions, five minutes a day, five days a week. Take the quiz every weekday at thequiz.fox and then listen to the quiz podcast to find out how you did. Play, share, and of course, listen to the quiz at thequiz.fox.

Well, welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz. So this week we got some fun stuff, some good stuff. You're going to love this. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in the news. We're going to highlight the stupid because, as I like to say, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. And then we're going to phone a friend. This week we're going to talk to the senator from Oklahoma, James Langford. James Langford is a senator.

One of the most influential people behind the scenes. For those of you in Oklahoma, you know him well. For the rest of the country, I think it'll be insightful as to who this person is. I served with him in the House of Representatives. I sat shoulder to shoulder with him on the Oversight Committee. He was my seatmate there. And we're going to have a good discussion about the Senate, what's happening, what's not happening, and a lot about what's going on in his background and how he rose to such prominence

when really nobody thought that he would be able to pull it off. But I want to start with the news because, you know, there's a real discussion in this country about the proper role and funding for police, first responders, Border Patrol, ICE. I never thought I'd see it. You know, supporting police, firefighters, first responders, Border Patrol, ICE. I

It was very bipartisan. Even when I served in Congress in 2008 was when I was first elected, was there for eight plus years. And nobody had a big monopoly. I think you could say Republicans were a bit stronger, wanted more funding, but Democrats were usually there. Not anymore. This socialist-oriented approach to Democrats, these so-called blue-dog Democrats are no longer there. They've been run out of existence.

The party has taken such a leap to the left that they're literally talking about not just changing the name as Minnesota wants to do from the Minnesota Police Department to the Department of Public Safety and then change what they do, how they do things. But you're seeing things play out with the Border Patrol and ICE. You know, I did an interview and it's really stuck with me where I said,

I knew the answer to it, but I was guest hosting for Sean Hannity, which I'm always grateful when he lets me do that. And I asked somebody about the morale there at the Border Patrol and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement. And of course it's low. And they said, yeah, it's low. But then the person went on to say, it's low by design.

Because while these socialist-oriented people really want to defund these organizations, they know there are other ways in order to get their numbers down such that they essentially can't do their jobs. One of them is to create these mask mandates that are so untenable that

that they are literally closing double-digit percentages of their organization. And you saw that play out in some of these big cities like New York and in California and other places, but you're going to start to see it with federal employees. You know, it's interesting. There's a group of federal employees like postal workers, for instance, and others that are exempt from

from the mask mandate. But they're going to start enforcing it. And I think you're going to see a lot of people step away and say, you know, it's not whether or not I am pro or anti-vax. That's not the issue. A lot of these people actually are vaccinated, but it really is to the heart of should the federal government control, should it dictate, should it determine whether or not

you have a job in this country. And I think you're going to see in mass, a lot of people leave their jobs. And it's right at the same time, for instance, on the border that we see these huge surges, a huge surge, if you will, of migrants trying to come across the border. And we have essentially an open border policy. That to me is that they're all tied together. And I don't think it's an accident that some of these things are being pushed in

Los Angeles and Immigration Customs Enforcement, the Border Patrol, New York City, because it's a different way to actually meet the goal which they're trying to achieve. And that to me is just fundamentally wrong. All right. Some other things that I just...

find amazing that I want you all to be aware of. There are different ways that members of Congress kind of skirt around the campaign finance rules. When you go out and you raise money, you are limited as to how much money you can spend on certain things. You can't go out and raise money and just buy groceries for your home. You can't go out and raise money and then just beef up your wardrobe.

you can't go out and use them for personal expenses. It has to have a legitimate campaign expenditure. Now, the rules are such, the laws are such, that there are ways that members of Congress get around this. So let me highlight some. For instance, Maxine Waters in California has evidently paid her daughter tens of thousands of dollars in campaign funds this year.

You know, the argument they usually hear from members of Congress when they do this, and they do it on both sides of the aisle, quite frankly, is they will say, well, somebody's got to do that job, and I've got to hire somebody to do that job.

Might as well be my relative. And so that's a way that you can take those campaign monies and put them right back into your family. Perhaps the worst one I've ever seen, and I don't know if she's still doing it or not, but Congresswoman Napolitano out of California, what she did is there's a provision where when you're running in your race, everybody's

Remember, every congressman and woman is up for reelection every two years. Senators, obviously, every six years. But one of the tricky things that they do is sometimes what they'll do is they will finance their own campaigns. Now, how you structure it is really important. So if you structure it as a donation to your campaign, then the money's there and it's never coming back. When I first ran for office, my wife and I said, look,

We're going to put $10,000 of our savings into this campaign. No more. And we did not structure it as a loan. So I didn't get that money back. But if you're looking in your own race, see if they've, oh yes, I invested in my own campaign. How did you invest in your own campaign? If it's structured as a loan, guess what people like Grace Napolitano did in California? She donated, or didn't donate, but she loaned her campaign to

A massive amount of money. I think it was about a million dollars, as I recall. This was highlighted in 60 Minutes, by the way, years ago. Then she structured it as a loan. She charged her campaign in an exorbitant percentage. I think it was near 18 or 20%. And then the campaign pays her back that interest payment.

And they keep the principle in place and just take the income off of that money. That is so fundamentally wrong. Because what you can do is put your money into your campaign, go raise money to run for Congress, then pay yourself back plus interest. Just wanted you to know behind the scenes how that really works and how outrageous that is. All right, time to bring on the stupid.

I got to tell you, this happened a couple weeks ago, but I just, I got to highlight it again because, you know, Joe Biden with his wife, they were going out and they were getting, going out to dinner. Now, good for them. I'm glad they're going out to dinner and, you know, I want everybody to have somewhat of a normal life and being president's tough and difficult.

But of course, with all the mask mandates and everything that they were saying you have to do, what did Joe Biden do? He walked through the whole restaurant not wearing a mask, not doing it. Even though there's a mask mandate in Washington, D.C., it's just one of those things where, you know what? People are so sick and tired of masks.

Hey, these rules, they're for you. They're not for me. And the response from Jen Pisaki was, let's not, quote, not overly focus on moments in time, end quote. How convenient. Let's just, you know, take generally what I say. But if somebody missteps or somebody, these are not mistakes, folks. It happens every day we get these new examples. I just thought that was pretty stupid.

And then an interesting note, Fox 32 in Chicago. I didn't know this. You know, we just had Halloween. It's one of my favorite holidays out there. And you see it a lot of Mike Myers masks, right? They're kind of scary. Somebody's wearing a mask. And what they found was, I don't know if this is stupid. I just, just makes me laugh.

is the allegation is that what they did was somebody needed a mask real quick, something scary. And so they ran to the store. They grabbed a William Shatner. Remember Star Trek fame, William Shatner? They grabbed one of his masks and then they cut out his eyes, made those eyeballs bigger. And this is when asked by Fox 32 in Chicago. This is what William Shatner said. Quote, I don't remember the exact moment, but I thought, is this a joke? Are they kidding me? I,

I don't think I saw the movie, but I saw the mask in a picture and I recognized...

It is the death mask that they had made for me. They made a mask of my face on Star Trek, so I wouldn't have to be available for the prosthetics they had to put on my face to look old or evil. So somewhere along the line, someone made a mask of it for Halloween. And then the story is, get me a mask. And the director and this guy ran into a Halloween store and grabbed the mask. And it happened to be of me. End quote. I think it's actually pretty funny that...

Mike Myers, the evil one. It's just William Shatner with big cutout eyes. All right, last one that is legitimately stupid is this supposed, according to the Wall Street Journal...

moved by the Biden-Harris administration to pay people who are suing the federal government for their separation when they illegally crossed our United States border. Supposedly, the allegation is they were separated. Now they want to sue, of course, the United States of America. And the Department of Justice is looking at paying them

$450,000 each. Now, when you're separated, that's two people. That's $900,000 for somebody who came into our country illegally. That has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. They're close to $1,000.

that are supposedly in line to sue our federal government. These people are claiming asylum. They were supposedly running away from a situation that was so bad and so onerous, and so their life was in danger and everything. Then they come to the United States of America, get across the border, and they're going to sue us because we didn't treat them well? Oh, my goodness. Nothing is more stupid than that. And that's bringing on the stupid. ♪

All right, time to now talk to a friend of mine, somebody I got to know when he was elected in the United States Congress two years after I was elected, I believe. His name is James Langford, and he's now the Senator Langford from Oklahoma, an incredible person. Let's give a ring to James Langford.

Hello. Senator James Lankford. Hey, this is a blaster in the past. Jason Chaffetz dialing you up. Jason, great to hear from you. I appreciate it. I had the honor and privilege of serving with James Lankford, now Senator Lankford, when he was a lowly House person with me. And we served on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee together and

Had pizza together, I don't know how many times in HR. What was the number of that room that we, not HR. I don't remember. I can't say we had lots of hearings because we sat right next to each other, literally on the dais.

And I can remember multiple hearings dealing with oversight where I would just roll my eyes and think, you've got to be kidding me as we deal with different government issues. But yeah, that was the fun of it, was literally sitting directly next to each other. Yeah, no, it was fun. And for the people who haven't had the pleasure to get to know and interact with James Lankford the way I have, just a wonderful, wonderful person. And

And you've got this great family, a wonderful wife, and you're serving for all the right reasons. And it's interesting how paths cross sometimes. I started my life. You started your life. But I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.

How you and I came to sit shoulder to shoulder there sitting in the Congress because you've done some amazing things in your life. But were you born in Oklahoma? Was that originally home for you? I was actually born in Texas, actually, and I have the most unlikely path.

to be able to be a United States Senator, because I was 22 years as a youth pastor, uh, before I came into Congress. And so I, it's always funny to me when I interact with people that know me as Senator Lankford, and they just assume I was a lawyer. I was an accountant. I own a big business, whatever it might've been. And now I'm a Senator. I'm like, no, it's worse than that. I was a youth pastor. And depending on what their relationship is with their youth pastor at their church, uh,

That either terrifies them or excites them, one or the other, that a youth minister is actually a United States senator. But I was 22 years in ministry, and that's what my wife and I did. I directed a camp called Falls Creek. It's actually the largest camp in America. We have about 51,000 students a summer that actually come to that camp. That was one of the primary things that I did in working with students and families. Boy, what could go wrong with 51,000 youth coming through the doors? Yeah.

I'm sure you've seen a little bit of everything. And now you get to work with a whole other set of sometimes immature people along the way who could probably learn a few things along the way from the decorum of a...

of a camp like that. But when you, so you grew up, you were born in Texas. What brought you to Oklahoma? Actually working with students. I'd done youth ministry in Texas. And then there was a group in Oklahoma that had asked me to be able to come join the leadership. They're coordinating student ministry, Southern Baptist. And they'd asked me to kind of coordinate student ministry for the whole state of Oklahoma. And so I came and joined them actually in 1995. Wow.

And served 15 years in that role before I was ever elected to Congress and never thought I would actually be in government. In fact, my wife calls it life's greatest interruption, that this was not like some life goal for us was to be able to end up in the political world. It was a real sense of calling, though, in 2008 and 2009.

Well, what happened there? I mean, you know, everybody kind of grows up. They have their own experiences. But what was the turning point where somebody turned to somebody there between the two of you, between you and your wife, and said –

yeah, maybe we should run. That seems like the smart thing to do. Yeah, that was really in the fall of 2008. My wife and I really sense of God leading us to that. He was just saying, get ready, get ready, get ready. And it wasn't audible. There was no voice in the clouds. There was no anything else. But there's this overwhelming sense that we were supposed to be running for Congress and

And we really struggled with that because, quite frankly, it's crazy. You know, you've been through that journey before. You don't get a sense of saying, you know, I'm going to go take over and I'm going to run for Congress and take the country over. You get into a dialogue with people and they think that's just crazy talk on it, but

But it was this overwhelming sense that we were supposed to run for Congress. And we spent about seven months really struggling through that. And at the end of it, I remember in March of 2009 saying to my wife, I'm going to be an old man one day, telling my grandchildren about the time I didn't do what I really felt like God was calling me to do. And I just don't want to be that guy. I've met people like that before, that literally they're 70, 80 years old, and they're still talking about what they felt like God was calling them to do decades before, but they never did it. And

I thought, I don't want to be that guy. I want to actually go and be faithful and to be able to serve in the way that I feel like God has called me to be able to do. So again, it wasn't an audible, there was no big booming voice out of the clouds. It was just an overwhelming sense of what we're supposed to do. Now, again, for Cindy and I, neither of us come from a political background. No one in our family has ever been elected in politics. No one in our family are attorneys. We don't have that background at all. So this was a true long shot from the very beginning. In fact, in

in the race in 2010 when I first ran for the House of Representatives. All the Washington DC newspapers, as you know, all kind of ballpark all the elections the night before each election on primaries. They're kind of saying, here's what to watch for, here are all the key people, here are the people we think are going to win, and what to be able to watch for in the elections tonight.

in that race in 2010, they didn't even list me as a candidate. There were seven people running for Congress. They didn't even list me 'cause no one, everyone's, oh, yeah, this is the youth pastor guy. This guy's not gonna get there. He's a nice guy, but he's not actually going to win.

Until I did. And then it suddenly became this shock factor. I was trying to figure out who is this guy? But our focus from the beginning has been we really feel a calling to be able to serve families and people. And this is just a different place to be able to do that. And so we've jumped in and to be able to say, what can we do best to be able to serve our nation? The issues are different, obviously, when you're dealing with a camp or whether you're dealing with illegal immigration or whether you're dealing with tax policy issues.

But serving families and trying to be able to actually do things that actually help our families and our culture, I think, is still a key part of what I'm called to do. You know, it's interesting because I was elected 2008. And like you, I wasn't even allowed to debate because I was pulling it less than I think I was pulling it like.

1.5% plus or minus 1.9% or something. It's like I statistically was zero, not even reaching a 5% threshold. So they wouldn't even let me debate. And then I ended up winning by 20 percentage points. And so as I recall your race, and again, faintly, and it's in the rear view mirror quite a bit now, it was, you know, you think about it and I thought, well, afterwards, well, you

Think of the network this guy has. If he's running tens of thousands of youth, their parents are paying attention. And so it kind of makes sense. And you're certainly falling in the heels of Dr. Coburn and whatnot. You've got a great tradition of some great, wonderful people serving for the right reasons there in Oklahoma. Yeah, there's been some great folks. We're a young state.

like Utah and like a lot of other places, not as young as Hawaii or Alaska, but we're only 114 years old as a state. So I'm just the 18th senator from my state. But there's been a great tradition of folks that really want to step up and serve for all the right reasons and to be able to find ways to be able to help not just the state, but the country. And you mentioned Tom Coburn. He was the senator immediately before me. He was well known as Dr. No, but people lose track of

how many things that he was actually trying to be able to fix and to engage and how good he was in relationships with people, even that he strongly disagreed with philosophically. He was always reaching out and saying, we got to figure out how to find common ground because these problems can't be just discussed. They've actually got to be fixed. And so in an Oklahoma sense,

We've been very, very passionate for a long time about not just talking about the problems, but actually fixing the problems. Yeah, Dr. Coburn was somebody that I greatly admired and looked up to. I felt like he was there and serving for all the right reasons.

that he wanted to actually solve things. He wasn't afraid of calling things out on either side of the aisle that he felt was wrong. I was passionate about the Oversight Committee, and he was the Senate equivalent over there. And he passed away a few years ago. I was sad to see him pass, but he was doing it for all the right reasons. You're a very conservative person. I am. Where did that come from? What is it about your growing up

gave you this sense of, you know, some core things like personal responsibility and where did that, where's the genesis of that? Well, you've got a couple of things on that. One is I had a mom that worked incredibly hard. I grew up in a single, a single parent household. My parents divorced when I was four and I had a mom that worked incredibly hard and instilled into us a real work ethic. I watched it with my grandparents on both sides. I watched it with my

I watched that with my dad, even though my parents were divorced, he had an incredible work ethic. Starting at 14 years old, I started, I had a job and was going at it. In fact, it's been funny just about my entire life. I've had two jobs all the time because there was always something that needed to be done. We could just jump in and to be able to do it. So it's work ethics been very strong within my own family. Uh,

I didn't grow up in a wealthy family at all. We were, as my mom would say, we were never without, but we always had enough. And she would always say as well, God always provided. It wasn't early, but he always provided. And so we did what it took to be able to go through life and to be able to grow up. So I had this family that was a very strong work ethic family, but also in my own personal faith,

I really believe that people have a gift from God for their, what they can do with their family, uh, as are committed to God and to their own family. They continue to be able to strengthen their communities, uh, our churches and our cities and our nation is built on strong families. If families are weak, the nation's weak. Uh, and it's amazing to me, this very simple principle, how many people miss it just with conservative thought, uh,

A lot of people get frustrated, as you and I both do, about the size and complexity of government. Government grows when families collapse because government's always trying to create a program to be able to help children that are exposed, moms that are exposed, trying to be able to help fill in programs for different things because families are collapsing.

So government gets bigger and more powerful literally as families collapse. We as conservatives often jump on top of the stack of government and try to press it down and say government's too big. Really what we've got to do is to be able to get under families and to say, what do we do to be able to strengthen families because

Because as families get stronger, there's less need for government. There's less need for prison. There's less need for all the challenges that we have in education because parents are connected to their kids. All these cultural issues that we face are often really family issues that have collapsed. And government can't fix that. But we can make sure that government doesn't get in the way of that. And so that philosophy that I've just seen...

lived out in so many families and working with so many kids over the years. I've just seen that lived out and seen that principle and want to be able to apply it. Yeah, no, it's amazing how many of the people that I consider, you know, good core conservatives and

They come from a quote-unquote broken home or whatever silly depiction somebody wants to put on it. My parents were divorced. Your parents were divorced. Senator Tim Scott certainly has a background that would lead you to believe that it wasn't everything grown-up Rosie with his mom and dad there.

He had tough times as well. But what was that moment, James, when you really felt the presence, if you will, of your Heavenly Father? When did you really understand that there was something more, that it just wasn't spontaneous combustion that just, you know...

By chance happened. When did you, did you have an experience younger in life or did it just, what happened? Yeah, it's a great question because there's been a couple of moments in my life and journey. I think that is for just people in their own spiritual journey. And I'm amazed working with students so many years, if I can set the context on it, I run into so many people that they deal with their finances, they deal with their emotional life, their dating life. They want to deal with their physical life and be able to take care of their bodies, but they

but they ignore the spiritual side of life. And there are a lot of individuals that just pause for a moment and go, you know, there's a part of me that I've not paid attention to that. I realized this really avoid. And I, and I identify that as that they're separated from God and that they know it, uh,

Ultimately, individuals at some point, I think, look around at creation and go, yeah, this didn't all happen by accident. There is someone bigger and smarter than me. And I've got to figure this part out. For me, that started pretty early, actually. My mom made sure I attended church. She would tell you because I've asked her. We sat in the balcony in church. I used to think that's because where she liked to sit. But I found out later from her it's actually because I got in trouble at church so much.

It was easier to jerk me out from the balcony than it was from the main part of the congregation. But we would sit in the balcony and kind of watch. And there was a Sunday that I was actually at eight years old. I remember actually listening to the pastor.

and thinking I came to this understanding of this very simple principle. There is a God and I don't know him and I'm separated from him. And I just couldn't get away from that very simple thoughts. And so home by myself late that evening on a Sunday night, I prayed and asked Jesus to come to my life to forgive my sins. And it started this journey with me even at eight years old. Now, when I was a teenager, I started understanding a lot more and started processing more of my own faith

And by the time I was in college, when everyone's exploring their faith in college, I was actually going a lot deeper in my faith in college and trying to be able to learn more about what's in the Bible and what does this mean and what does this look like?

and started getting active, really serving people more. And so for me, it was a moment, as you describe it, at eight years old when I came to know Christ to be forgiven. But that's really a growing thing for me. I still spend time every day reading scripture, and I still spend time every day in prayer, because that's a foundational part of who I am. Yeah, you know, I happen to live in my congressional district. One of my constituents was Stephen Covey, who had the seven basic habits of very—

of highly effective people. And it's a great book and a great read. And part of that is finding that spiritual balance in your life. Because I do, I think it gets glanced over. You know, for me, it came a little bit later in life, but it was...

It was through the power of prayer that I didn't grow up with. My parents weren't dragging me to church every week, but I recognized in reflection that there were those religious type of moments that couldn't be explained through anything other than a higher being and a higher power. And that's the beauty of America. You know, we're not, you know, dictate that, at least they're not supposed to, what we can believe in and what we can do and whatnot. But

I hope people find that. And they could be at any age in their life. But for me, yeah, it was the power of prayer and it was recognizing, especially space. I was just fascinated by space. I looked up at the stars and the moon and I thought, where's the end of that? And I just kept thinking and trying to process, where's the end of space? Kind of those big lofty questions that sometimes a teenager will ask and

And, you know, it led me down a great path that made me a better, smarter person. But and I hope everybody finds that in their life. They don't. But, you know, oftentimes you find people that are off track and that's one of the elements that's missing. Not always, but often. Yeah.

It's a big deal. And again, that's a gap for a lot of folks that they just get busy in life and they don't take time to be able to pause and be able to deal with that. And then they hit some point, some moment in their life, whether it's somebody's in the hospital or some tragedy, or they get to the end of themselves financially or whatever it may be. And they suddenly pause and go, wait a minute. Am I really all by myself or is there someone else here that's really guiding and trying to get my attention? So I love getting in that conversation with people.

because just about everybody I've talked to is on some journey with God. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Senator James Lankford right after this.

Hey, it's Clay Travis. Join me for Outkick the show as we dive deep into a mix of topics. New episodes available Monday to Friday on your favorite podcast platform and watch directly on Outkick.com forward slash watch. Help me balance that then with the proper role of government because there is a role of government. You talked about it already briefly, but go a little deeper in how

how that informs the decision-making process. Because there are some that say, hey, look, I'm not a believer. I don't need to believe what Chaffetz or Lankford or anybody else believes. I can go do whatever I want, and they have no business preaching or talking to me or making public policy based on their crazy beliefs. Yeah.

Yeah, I run into that all the time, Jason. I've heard that. It's very funny to me. I had people when I was first elected would say to me, now wait, now you were a minister before, but this is a secular role now. You need to take your faith off and not ever talk about faith anymore. And I'll just smile at them and go, okay, well, let me just give you two things on it. One is

The United States Constitution protects the rights of every individual, including elected individuals, to have a faith and to live their faith. That's a basic protection that you can choose to have no faith and be a great American

And I can choose to be able to have a faith and be a great American. We can both cooperate together. This radical experiment from 1789 that could we all have different face and different perspectives and still be able to appreciate each other. We're still weaving that together as a country, but it's a very good thing. It's a very positive thing. So I don't impose my faith on anyone.

But neither do I have to take my faith off. In fact, I'm very blunt with people. If I can take my faith off, that's not really a faith. A faith should permeate everything that you do. It affects every relationship that I have. So a faith that I can take off or a faith that I can do on weekends is really not a faith. And I'm pretty blunt with people to say, if your faith is something you only do on weekends, that's not a faith. Things that you only do on a weekend is called a hobby. Okay.

OK, I don't have a hobby. I actually have a faith that permeates how I affect and how I interact with people. And that's protected for elected officials by Article six of the Constitution, where it says there's no religious test for any officer of the United States, but also by the First Amendment.

in the constitution where it protects the rights of individuals, not of an established religion, but also have the free exercise of religion for every individual. I'm not anti-government. And I run into people that are conservatives that they really come across as anti-government. There is a role for government. Government should do its role. But I strongly believe that our government is best when it's in its lane

doing its function, and primarily its families and local communities and local governments should make the vast majority of decisions for individuals. And that's going to look a little bit different in Detroit, in Oklahoma City, in Tulsa, in New York City, and in Brownsville, Texas. It's just going to look different in each of the localities based on the

preferences that are there in that locality, but it also should be protected for the rights of individuals to be able to speak, live their faith out, be able to practice that in the public arena or privately as they choose. Yeah, it is amazing how pervasive the federal government has become in every single aspect of our lives. I too, I believe there's a proper role of government, but it's very limited. And for those that can't help themselves, of course there's going to be a safety, and of course we want to do that. But

But I guess what drives me crazy is healthy body, able Americans, you know, just taking advantage or doing something inappropriate. I just I wish the tentacles weren't just omnipresent. That's the way it feels. And if you couple that with a lack of justice that a lot of people are feeling, then you've got a recipe where a lot of a lot of dissatisfied people.

Oh, and we've got lots of dissatisfied people. Right now, the people that I interact with the most in my state are either really angry because there's way too much government coming at them and they don't want to deal with this. They want to be with their kids at baseball practice. They want to be at work. They want to interact. They want to do all those things, but they feel like government's coming at them all the time. And so they feel like they're fighting off the federal government. They're like, why am I having to fight off all these mandates and all these things that are coming at me? Why do I have to think about these things? I don't want to think about you guys. I want to

do my life and my work. And now I'm having to think about what's going on in DC or DC is going to come attack me. So there's that group that's really angry at it. And there's another group that's entirely checked out. They're like, you know what? Stop watching the news. Stop being on social media.

I can't do anything about this anymore. I'm just checking out of everything. Well, both of those are bad formulas for a country that is a representative republic like we are. Our constitutional republic is based on people being engaged in the issues, having a voice into the issues and being able to affect that through their elected representatives. When that breaks down, either because people are so angry that they're just trying to push everything out or they're so checked out that they don't want to even think about it anymore. We have a real breakdown in culture. And so

And so for us, for those of us that are serving and engaged, we got to actually engage with people to say, here's solutions, here's answers, here's what we got to do. Here's that proper role in government, as you talk about, that we got to get it back in its box and to be able to do its box well, but not be in everybody else's box. Well said. And you're right. I think those two categories are a lot of the people that I run into, a lot of people that are just so disenchanted, they can't keep up with it. And a lot of

A lot of people, families just trying to start a business or keep a business afloat and there just seems to be no appreciation for

from Washington, D.C. about how incredibly difficult it is to run a restaurant, start a new business, whatever it might be. It's really hard. And yet we need more entrepreneurs, more people excited about going out and doing this and not feeling like they're fighting against the government at every step of the way. 100% agree. Right now, the best statistics that we have for labor, we have 5 million people that are of working age

5 million people that are not working that were working just two years ago. And it's not because there's a lack of jobs. There's jobs open literally every direction you want to go north, south, east, west, doesn't matter. Every town across the country, people are desperate for people to be able to reengage with work.

but we have 5 million people that have just checked out that are no longer working. And that's really having a real effect across the country. We're a country built on work. That's what we do. We're Americans. That's why one of the first questions that you get as American is, hi, what's your name? What do you do? Comes right after that. And if the answer is, hi, my name is, and I don't do anything, people are shocked because they want to know what, what do you do? We're an American. Of course, we do something. Yeah. And there's so much personal satisfaction, personal growth, uh,

self-confidence that arises out of that. And the other thing, and not to belabor this, but I feel like with this younger generation of Americans that they miss these opportunities at age 14 and 15 to go out and work and actually earn a dollar. And I did that with my own kids. My dad did it with me. And yet there's just a whole generation. It feels like

that doesn't go out and mow lawns or go work at the local whatever grocery store or something where it actually requires some exertion listening to a new person and actually getting a check. I worry about that. Yep. I do too. And at 14 years old, I was walking to work dipping ice cream at Baskin Robbins ice cream. And if you really want to build a 14-year-old self-esteem

put them in a brown and pink polka dotted work shirt and have them dip in ice cream. But that was my first job was working at a Baskin Robbins, dip in ice cream at 14 years old because I could work certain hours of the day and had that ability to be able to do it. I continue to be able to work and work to department stores. I worked at dry cleaners. I worked at restaurants. I did whatever work that I could.

to be able to earn a living and to be able to buy the things that were going to be around me. I earned that value of that work is not punishment. Work is actually purposeful. People that work have a sense of purpose and meaning because they start serving other people. If everything is about who's serving me,

You get just a bitter, angry attitude that I'm not getting enough and I'm not getting served enough. But if you turn out and you start serving people, you get a bigger perspective for people that are consumed with getting more and more money. And it's all about them and how much money they can get. They end up eventually with just a bitter heart.

excuse me for saying so, but just the reality of what it is. But people that work to be able to serve and to be able to help others, they also get a benefit personally. And they also have the opportunity to be able to succeed. The Brookings Institute, I love talking about this because they're a left-leaning think tank. But they have for years looked at and said, for people born in poverty, what's the route out of poverty? How do you escape poverty? And they find three things to be true. If

If you have a full-time job of any type, of any pay, if you have a full-time job, number one. Number two, if you graduate high school. Number three, if you wait till after marriage to have children. If those three things are true, even if you're born in poverty, the vast majority of individuals will escape poverty if they graduate high school, wait till after marriage to have children, and have a full-time job of any type. Those three opportunities are all decisions that people can make.

finishing up high school, waiting until after marriage to have children and getting a job. That's a route out of poverty that's still true for every race, every background, every person across the country. And where those barriers exist that aren't there, it's part of the role of the government to knock down the barriers. But each individual has to be able to rise up and say, I'm going to do it. I'm going

I'm going to actually do the work to be able to put into this, to be able to be successful. Yeah. There are common denominators for it. You always, you find the, the one that's not true, but I can tell you, you can find the common denominators because not everybody's going to play professional football and not everybody's going to be, you know, an incredible musical act or be an actor in Hollywood. And, uh,

when that reality sets in, I think you make a great point, but it's also a good segue as we conclude this, this interview, James Langford to ask you the rapid questions. And I don't care how many times you have scooped the ice cream at Baskin Robbins. Nobody has properly prepared you for these questions. Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm interested in your comment though, but no one gets to play professional football after you being,

a world famous college kicker like you were uh that then you didn't end up in the professional football well at the time there were only 28 of those jobs that actually paid and um mine i was not one of those guys but boy you know i would still have liked to but anyway that's another another podcast all right so i gotta ask you some questions favorite

ice cream seems very appropriate since you have such, you're a professional, you got a fallback career. You're a professional scooper. What's your favorite scoop ice cream? Absolutely. So my favorite, I've got two here. My favorite ice cream is anything with a Heath bar in it, chocolate or vanilla with a Heath bar, doesn't matter. It's a favorite ice cream. But if I'm going to do a favorite milkshake, I'm in the season now actually to do a favorite milkshake. It's actually half eggnog ice cream, half chocolate ice cream,

And you mix those two together, and it's pretty magical, actually. A chocolate eggnog shake. Can't say I've ever done that, nor will I be clamoring to. Got to try it. Got to try it. Sometime if I'm with you, I'll have to have you order that. It seems to be made a special way that only pros know about, so I will follow your lead on that one. First concert you attended?

Oh, wow. You know what? I was too young to probably remember all of them. I was in several country concerts early in the day. So it would have been probably something big like Kenny Rogers or Ricky Skaggs or one of those. Kenny Rogers. That'd be pretty good. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My stepfather was a huge Kenny Rogers fan. So I know we ended up at Kenny Rogers concerts early. Yeah.

What was your high school mascot? High school mascot was the Patriots. All-American is that. I mean, usually it's weird. Come on. Yeah, it was. The Patriots? That's pretty good. It's funny how many times I'll get like Vikings. Like, oh, yeah, there were a lot of Vikings in your town growing up. No wonder you're the Vikings. It's just pretty funny. Sometimes, you know, you've been in the Senate. You've been on television. You're a United States Senator, for goodness sake. People will recognize you.

But if they recognize you and then they don't recall that you're a senator, they think you look like somebody else famous. Who is that somebody else famous they think you look like?

So most of the time I get two things from people. I get one, are you on TV? They think I'm a TV anchor on one of the local news stations. And then the second thing they'll say is you look a lot shorter than you do on TV because I'm 5'10". And somehow they see me on TV and they think I'm 6'5 or something crazy. I usually get that all the time. I get the, boy, you're a lot taller than I thought you were. And, uh,

I'm on the other direction. And Gowdy usually, he says, well, let me interpret that for you, Jason. They're really what they're saying is, boy, you are a lot fatter than I thought you were going to be. As only our friend Trey Gowdy can say and interpret. Yes.

I had to text Trey the other day because I was in the Capitol and I ran into somebody and they mistook me for Trey Gowdy. And so I text Trey later. I said, I just ran into some of the Capitol staff and they mistook me for Trey Gowdy, to which he immediately texted me back and said, I'm sure they've been promptly fired for such insults. So...

Yeah, sorry about that. That's tough go if you think in your Gowdy. My favorite thing about Trey Gowdy is when somebody does recognize him and wants a picture with him, I instantly offer to take those pictures because he really doesn't like to have his picture taken like that. He'll do it. He's a nice guy.

But I fumble with the camera. I take like 20 pictures. Wait, wait, let's just get one more. Get a little closer because I could just see him staring at me like, will you end this, please? And I will do everything I can to extend it. All right. Life's most embarrassing moment.

Oh, my gosh. Let me count the ways. Everybody has a whole set of tips. Well, being recognized as Trey Gowdy is probably right at the top of the list. That's pretty embarrassing. I have to say, I go all the way back to every moment of my life in middle school was a life's embarrassing moment. There's not a good day, honestly, there. I can remember going to a formal banquet in high school. It was my first time to be at a formal banquet. It's like linen tablecloths. Everybody's got like 90 forks and knives and everything around me. I have no idea what to do with.

And I bite into a cherry tomato. And as I bite into it, it like sprays out of my mouth across the table. And I've got like this string of cherry tomato juice, like across the white linen tablecloth. And I'm just as a high school student mortified going, Oh great. I just messed this up. I'm never going to be invited to anything nice ever again. But yeah, I'm,

I've had endless numbers. I was my first time to be at the White House as an elected official. I'm walking back from the White House trying to take everything else in. I miss one of the steps in the Rose Garden and actually just go all the way to the ground and fall. I'm like, yeah, this is this. This is a good moment to be able to walk in. So, yeah, I can I can give you a thousand lives. Most embarrassing moment. I'm just grateful for a faithful God who forgives us and has mercy on us.

Cherry tomatoes, I avoid them at all costs. If I try to cut it with a knife and fork, I know I'm launching it. You're right. If you bite into it, it's going to squirt out. I can't take the chance of dealing with the cherry tomato. As much as I want to eat it right there, there's no way in public I'm going to try to tackle that thing. Learn that early. All right. Just a couple more quick ones. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no? Yes.

Yes, absolutely. Yes. Not only absolutely. Yes. Pineapple and mandarin oranges with your pizza as well. Pineapple, mandarin oranges and ham. That's the best way to go on a pizza. Thick crust. Oh, my God.

We were on a roll. The judges do not like this answer, I want you to know. But I appreciate your candor and standing firmly behind it. Not waffling, but standing firmly behind the worst decision that I've ever heard come out of James Lankford. All right. Two more questions. Best advice you ever got? Wow.

Wow, it'd probably be a couple pieces. You mentioned Stephen Covey earlier, reading through some of his stuff. It was great advice and very good insight on just business practical things. There's a book called Good to Great that I read years ago with lots of super practical stuff on it. It was a very, very good resource for me.

Just my own personal development. But I would think it would be almost anything my grandfather ever said to me was great advice, including sneaking away and getting cherry pie whenever you could do that. But the people that I've invested in my life over the years, I've been forever grateful for the bits and pieces of just encouragement. But anytime anyone turned me back to my family and said, make sure you're paying attention to your family above all else, couldn't have been better advice for me than that.

Great advice. Last question. Who is your favorite oversight chairman from Utah's 3rd Congressional District? I don't know. I can't think of any right now that really comes off hand. Fair enough. It's amazing how I can't seem to win that one. I was with you on Darrell Issa until you got to Utah's 3rd Congressional District. I was thinking, okay, that's

Yeah. Dan Barton, he did some others that would beat me out, but I thought I'd qualify with Utah's third congressional district. And I still can't seem to win that vote, but it was an honor and a privilege to serve with you. I'm glad that my relationship with relationship here with Fox news has our paths crossing from time to time and,

Thank you so much for your service to the country and all that you're doing, because I know you pour your heart and soul into it and believe deeply in this country. And thanks for joining us on the Jason in the House podcast. Senator James Langford. Jason, glad to be able to do it. Always good to be able to visit with you. Keep going. Keep being faithful to what you're called to be able to do. Do it well, because we need conservative voices in the national dialogue. All right. Thank you. All right. I can't thank James Langford enough for joining us on the Jason in the House podcast.

I hope you can rate this one, like it, click those little stars. That's important to us. If you want to find more podcasts, go to foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we'll be back with more next week. I'm Jason Chaffetz. This has been Jason in the House.

From the Fox News Podcasts Network, subscribe and listen to the Trey Gowdy Podcast. Former federal prosecutor and four-term U.S. congressman from South Carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind podcast. Subscribe and listen now by going to foxnewspodcasts.com.