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It's Sophia Franklin. You are listening to Sophia with an F and the F is for phenomenal. This podcast is rated F.
If you're a woman and you're strong and you don't go with the crowd, God help you. Yeah. Because we raise women, young girls to say, grow up, be strong, speak out, be tough. And then we eviscerate them. When they are. Yes. And then we tell them to be the complete opposite. Yes.
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to Sophia with an F. I am sitting here with Megan McCain. You may have heard of that last name before. Megan, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like this is such a cool show to get asked to go on.
And I don't always... I get asked to go on like serious things for a lot of old people. So I'm like my sister is obsessed with this show. Oh my God. Thank you. And I'm so happy to be here. So thank you. And my friend Liam McSweeney just came on. Yes. I'm really like just really so thrilled to be here. So thank you. Thank you. We were talking about...
like everything for the last 10 minutes. One of which things was you have a podcast. I guess it's very look podcasting. I don't think people understand it is hard. Did everyone hear that? I've done everything I've done terrestrial radio, TV, books.
political stuff. Podcasting is a grind and you have to earn every listener and every view. We tape ours too, like every viewer, whatever. It is the utmost respect. I know you've been doing this a long time and you're like a queen in this space, but it is no joke. I mean, it's still difficult, especially because I will do solo episodes where I just talk for an hour straight to a wall and
And those ones are very crazy. Yeah. Do you ever podcast like alone? I have a co-host. I have like a co-person. Yeah, co-host, whatever. I mean, I could, but we were talking off air. I get so drained afterward. And I do two a day and...
I also kind of like run out of content at a certain point. Right, right. Yeah. So I can try it, but I have not done it yet, no. You have always been very outspoken. I mean, I did like a deep dive. Probably some scary shit on the internet. The thing is, I've been public since I was like 21 and I'm 39. There's like a lot of stuff on the internet that is like...
And a lot of times it's really bad. So sometimes before when I meet a new person, I never know like which like perspective they have read about me. So it's always like a new journey. There's so much shit about you online, but there's a lot of not so nice things about me. I never judge anyone off of I read online. That's like, you know, I don't either. Right.
Okay. So you didn't look me up and you weren't like... I did. And I was just like, I got a lot of stuff, like I said, from my friends and my sister that, you know, follow you. But you just seem like you have this like amazing career and... Thank you. And you as well, which I want to jump into. So you only became kind of very public facing when you were 21? 21, 22, right out of college. Okay. And like the original political nepo baby, my dad was...
running for president when I just graduated. And his campaign at the time was doing really bad. Like he, it like imploded, his staff quit and he needed help. I didn't know if he was going to win or even become the nominee. And I just started working for him. And then I've always just been really different. Like I think everyone thinks from like the way I look, the way I talk to how like
like I think intense and outspoken I am. So people were just a little more curious about me at that age. Which is the biggest compliment ever. Yeah, I mean, it's a double-edged sword. The first article ever written about me, ever, by Michael Shear, I remember. The headline was, Meghan McCain is not Chelsea Clinton.
And even like the beginning part was like putting me in comparison to... Always with women. Always. Yes. Like, and that's the only lens is like Chelsea Clinton has done it correctly because she's... And I like her. I have no problem with Chelsea Clinton, but she's like, you know, very like produced and you don't really know a lot about her. And she's very like formal. And that was, I just remember, I'll never forget that. Well, and I feel like most people in the political realm...
They are actually private, right? Like they will only talk about certain things that are very curated and
And you are the complete opposite, which I think is incredible and something politics need. My dad was very open with the press to the point that it was like considered a knock against him. One time he like jokingly said that like the media was his base, like the base of his support. So I think I just was not scared of the press the way a lot of other people are. But the vast majority of politicians and people and I get it like the media, as you know, can be very cruel.
And also if you're running for office, you want to like present this veneer of like perfection and whatever. But I don't know. I never, I never did that. You never fit the molds. No, I still don't. I still feel like my, my producer for my podcast calls me the outsider insider. Oh, like I'm the insider. Cause obviously I come from like political family and all these people, but I'm still like treated like an outsider. I always feel like the like,
like the redheaded stepchild of like political families. Because sometimes I feel like people are like, you know, she's so loud. She's controversial. And like, you know, she's going to infect us with her conservative disease. Like, get her away from me. So, but at the same time, they're also like, but you know, she's been around a long time. But she has a great point when it comes to this. Sometimes people are like, she's, she's, I always, people, and I don't know if you feel this way in your life. Like people like love me and think I'm like stupid.
amazing and smart or I'm like a Bond villain and like the worst thing to happen in politics ever and there is nothing in between. You know what? I totally resonate with that because I think when I... I'm not going to sugarcoat and I'm going to say where I stand on something, you know? I'm not going to give this whole PR spin because it feels very inauthentic to me. Sometimes I wish I could be more...
you know, but it just, it doesn't feel authentic. Like it doesn't come naturally to me. So 21, you start
start working for your dad. Was your background in politics? No, I just graduated college. I actually had interned at Saturday Night Live and Newsweek Magazine in college. I thought I wanted to like stay in New York and work in some kind of media space like that. Wasn't that interested in politics. And then just again by osmosis, I think being young and learning. The thing I like about politics is it's really dramatic and there's a winner and a loser. And if you're doing well, there's like
real life tangible results in the moment. Yes. If you're like a candidate that people are resonating with, your poll numbers will go up immediately. If you suck, it'll go down immediately. And I still like that adrenaline rush. And I get how people are like, talk about your dad all the time. And there's a video on YouTube that's like me going, it's every interview I've ever done. I'm saying my father over and over again, which people use against me like all the time. Why?
I think people just think I have this like weird obsession with my dad, but also like everything I do, people ask me about him. Right. And he's like a very famous person. Very, very, very famous person. He taught me to love. Okay. And did he kind of...
teach you to be outspoken? Like, is that where you got that from? Yeah, he and my mom, they were always like, I think his like idea of me being a failure would be like, if I was sort of like with the crowd and quiet. I remember I registered as an independent in college because I
Like my family, like always beefs with everybody. And my dad had a beef with President Bush at the time. And I like didn't want to vote for President Bush. And I thought the Bushes were like hacks. And when I registered as an independent, he thought it was like hilarious. He did. Yes, he like loved it. So that's... I fucking love that. I know. He was like, you're an independent thinker. So that's incredible. So how do you feel about having your kids...
in the political realm? They can do anything but this. Because my husband works in politics too and he has this weird story that he was kind of like a child prodigy, not a child prodigy, but like a young prodigy in politics too. He worked in the White House when he was 20 or 21, I don't remember. He didn't graduate college and he just went to work in the Bush administration. So he's a genius.
I mean, I'm not going to say it. Everyone has a stroke of the ego. But it's actually like one of the things we related about early on when we were dating. But this is... And they say, would you want your kids to do this? No. It's awful. No. Right? And the media just...
If you're a woman and you're strong and you don't go with the crowd, God help you. Yeah. Because we raise women, young girls to say, grow up, be strong, speak out, be tough. And then we eviscerate them. When they are. Yes. And then we tell them to be the complete opposite. Yes. And we can't be multifaceted. Yes. And we have to be in one lane. Yes. And it's, yeah, no.
If when I have children, I would not want them involved. Do you want kids? Yeah. And I'm 31. So that's why I'm kind of like, you are so fine. Am I? So young. Yes. I was thinking about freezing my eggs. I was 30, almost 36. Like I turned 36 a month later after I had my first daughter. Oh, yeah. And I was 38 when I had my second. I'm 39 now. Did you want to have?
That's incredible. Did you freeze your eyes? I did not, but I would have if I hadn't met my husband. But I was very on the fence about, and I have a lot of friends who have. Yeah. I don't, talk to your doctor. I'm not the, I'm like,
I was literally about to ask you more questions about it. Like I heard that the results are not as great. And you're like, that's I don't know anything about it. The best advice I got in my personal life, I was told treat your fertility as seriously as you treat your career. And someone told me that when I was like 30. And I thought I was like, no. And then I really appreciate that advice because even when I had my first daughter, I wasn't like ready. But I was like, I want kids and time's up.
And does anyone ever feel ready? No, I don't think so. Like, I thought about that before. But I also would like to add, treat your fertility like you would your career and treat dating if you are wanting to get married and have kids as serious as your career as well. I agree with that. I think that it's very hard. And I think dating when you're a public person is...
presents a lot of challenges. It was very hard for me when I was dating. Can we talk about that? Sure. Because I have like a list of questions. Do you know the movie My Date with the President's Daughter? With Mandy Moore? Is that? No, no, it's a blonde girl. Then I don't. There's a Mandy Moore President's Daughter movie. Yeah. I think she falls in love with like a Secret Service agent. Okay. Okay. Was it anything like that? Like, my
My dad was never president, so no. Well, right. But he was a senator and huge. And I just found dating really hard because I lived in New York and L.A. when I was dating. And being a Republican in those cities is like...
You're like an endangered species. Well, also, you're in New York and LA, so you're already an endangered species. Yeah. Just with that. And people thought it was weird. You know, people were like... Guys would be like, oh, whatever. And I remember one guy I went on a few dates with...
He really liked me. He was like really into me. But then his neighbor, he told his neighbor he was dating me and his neighbor was like, I hate her family. And do you know what she represents? And I remember on our next date, he was really spooked by it. He was like, I didn't know this about your family. Like, I don't know, whatever. And this is like the Obama years. This is before Trump. This is before like everything. And we obviously didn't continue dating. So I was like, I can't change who I am. Later asked to help me get him booked on The View as a guest. Okay. I was...
I didn't do it. I was just going to ask. I feel like maybe dudes would try to date you for clout or like advancement in their careers. Did you ever like run into that? I don't think I'm the right type of person. I think it's more like people like you, like, you know, beautiful social media pie guys. Do you think it's because...
You're so outspoken. Yeah, and I just think like it's not cool. Like, you know, in the media places I was at, being a Republican was like, people hate it. That wasn't the cool thing. Yeah, and then I think also like my personality, I'm just very... You would see right through it is what I am betting. But you tell me. Yeah, and I just like...
This sounds... I know how this sounds. So like, bear with me. That's okay. I dated lots of... I never dated a conservative until I met my husband. Because I just was like...
You know, I don't know. I thought they might be too into my dad, too dorky, whatever. And then it turned out like it was actually the best fit for me. Just values the perspective on the world, whatever. And look, like L.A. and New York are filled with douchebags. It just is. My I have friends and my sister-in-law is single in D.C. as well. And these cities are not filled with like the cream of the crop.
No. And I just, I hate it. If anything ever happens with my husband and I, which I don't think it will, but if like it did, I'm never dating again. I'm just going to be single. I'll be alone. I cannot do it again. I love that. I'll just be alone. Wow, I'm so looking forward to marriage. You're like,
I will be single if it doesn't work out. Well, I don't want to do that again. Yeah. It's awful. Just the dating part. Yes, I hated it. I hated it. It is so taxing. Just on your self-esteem. Just like on everything I feel like dating is. That's why I've been a serial monogamous, you know? But I want to be single for a while. For sure. Yes. I just went through a breakup. I'm so sorry. Thank you. I always used to spiral after breakups. I...
You know what's so funny is I want to spiral, but I've just been like on the move. So it's going to hit me like probably right after this recording. Like I'm probably going to like go get a martini and whatever. I have been like dumped within an inch of my life. And like I have had the worst breakups ever. If there's anything I can do to make it better, I'm serious.
I just... It is... Dating is awful. It just is. It is. And I think that breakups are awful and it's so painful. And I'm so tough and so strong. And I like deal with very serious people all the time. Nothing would make me lose my mind like a bad breakup. So if... Not that that's you. You're like, good luck. I used to like just... I mean, all the drink, travel, like just try and like just make the pain go away. Yes. Yes. And...
Were you on TV or having to... Sometimes. And what would you do? You just like suppress it, numb it.
I mean, I would normally go out a lot and try and get like my picture taken as much as possible to show them what they were missing. I actually told a story on my podcast that I went through a terrible breakup and the White House Correspondents Dinner, which is like a DC dinner, was going on. I made my dad take me and I wore a revenge dress to make the guy like... Because I was like, I'm here. And I remember we were like, our pictures were like everywhere. And he did end up like... He reached out? Yes, it worked. Oh my God. But that's like...
But that's a whole thing to do. Yeah.
I need to do that. How do I get invited to the Correspondence Dinner? I'll hook you up. I'm just going to call paparazzi randomly. Randomly, the paparazzi is going to put me in Daily Mail. Actually, you know what? I don't even need to do that. I can just throw some shit up on my story. Do you put anything like on social to be like, you know? Like that kind of bare my soul? Or no, just like I'm having the best time. Like I'm, you know. Yeah, but not for...
You know what? Sometimes I will catch myself really second guessing what I'm posting when I'm like in the beginning stages or like have a huge crush on a guy. We're not dating yet, but I'll be like...
Okay, so normally I would just look this way, but now I'm going to hurry and put makeup on to like do this post, you know? I feel like that's normal. That's normal. Yeah, and fame adds an element of craziness. Sometimes I think it makes men crazy. Not all of them, but some men. It does. Can't handle it. It does. My experience. Same, same. What part of it, though, do you think it is?
I think men are very like, have very like soft, shallow egos. The wrong kind of guys. I don't want to include my husband in this. I'm sure there are great guys out there, but I dated a lot of guys that were like,
sort of like coming up in their career in the same time I was. And I don't think that they liked that I got more attention. Like, it's not hard for me to get attention and it was harder for them. And I'm sure it's obviously not hard for you to get attention. It's hard for them. So, you know, men are not as evolved as I hope they would be. Not to just like have this shit on men podcast for you. But I think there's a point there and I agree with you. Mm-hmm.
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Your cash back really adds up. Were you always public about who you were dating? No, like never. You would keep them in the shadows a little. Yeah, and like...
I mean, that's what I do. Yeah. And they were not a lot of guys I was with. I think they were worried it would like hurt their career. And then there was like a flip side. This is weird, too, especially when I lived in L.A. It was almost like a like a fetish. Like it was like, oh, I'm going to Republican, you know, senators, blah, blah, blah. And I always caught on to that really quick. Uh-huh. You know, it was like.
we would not continue dating. I would imagine the dirty talk in bed. Like if it was a fetish. It was more just like people would be like, oh, my like boss would be interested or whatever. Right, right, right. Men will find a way to fetishize anything. Really anything. Yeah. They will find a way for sure. It's true. So...
When you were dating dudes, did they have to get the background check and all that shit? I had a rule that I would go out with anyone who asked me because I felt like it was kind of hard to ask me out. I'm sure... Yeah. You know, whatever. I would say yes to almost anyone as long as they had a job and didn't seem like they were mentally ill. Wait, same. No, wait, same. I say yes to everyone.
with everyone and I will end up dating everybody. Yeah, I was the same. Like I would not even look into do we have the same values? I'm just like, wait, you're obsessed with me and I love that because it makes me feel good. Let's be in a relationship. Yeah. I remember I went out with a waiter one time because he just asked me out as a sushi restaurant. He just gave me his number. I went out with him. I just...
Like, I really... Because I feel like dating is kind of like gambling. Like, you have to, like, put all, like, you know, in roulette, you got to, like, put all the chips on the table because something's going to hit. You really never know somebody. I met my husband on Twitter. You did? For whatever that makes you feel better. No,
I'm going to start tweeting obsessively. Were you doing that? No, I saw him on Bill Maher. He was a guest on Bill Maher. And it was the day after New Year's. And I was very hungover with my girlfriend. And she was like, he's hot and he's conservative. Follow him. And I followed him. And he immediately DM me. I always thought you were beautiful. Can I take you out to dinner? And I was like, oh, my God, what?
Oh my God, we are married. Totally. I was like, he was, no offense to my husband who my PR person here knows well. He was like, it was not hard. I tell people this, like, and again, I'm no expert. I think it's like a, sometimes I just feel like it literally is just like throwing the dice and it actually worked. But like, it was very easy with my husband. I didn't second guess that he was into me. He texted me back. He called me back.
It was always, I never second guessed that he was into me. And every other guy before him, I was like, I think he's really, I don't know. And I didn't want to play any more psychological games. I think the second there, you're not sure if a dude is totally into you. Totally. Then it's, it's a no. Agree. Right. Men will make it known.
Let me ask you this about dating. And then we can move on from dating. I could talk about dating all day long. Nobody ever asked me about dating. I'm happy to talk about dating. Me too. Because it's fascinating. If you have, if two people have opposing political views, can,
Can that relationship work? There's a very famous couple that are famous strategists named James Carville and Mary Matlin who met when James was working for Clinton and she was working for the first Bush. And they have a very, like they have kids. They've been married, I think like 40 years or something or like a famous couple. I think now it would be trickier in the time of like Trump and Biden and as divided as we are. I don't think it like necessarily works.
Wouldn't it work? Like everybody's a different individual. Yeah. But I think it's much harder right now. Much harder right now because people are just the intensity. And everyone's so angry. And politics has become so much of people's identity as well. It used to be like pre-Trump time. It was only people like me that it was part of your identity. And I feel like now people are like, I'm an X, I'm a Y. And I understand on dating apps, people are much more vocal about their politics now.
And like they're, and it's just like anecdotally what I've been told, but like put it on things. Interesting. Because I've been off the dating apps. I don't think I would. Would you do Raya?
That's the famous one. For people who don't know you, you have to be famous to be honest. Yeah. So I was on there and now I'm banned forever. Why? Because... We should be lucky to have you on there. I feel like I tell this story literally and Raya's like, please stop talking about us.
But I did an episode with one of my really good friends is when I was trying to grow the show. And I said to anyone who subscribes to Sophia The Neff,
I will give you my Raya friend pass, which basically kind of gives you a little bit like your foot in the door, right? Because you have someone already on the app vouching for you. Okay. And I said, if you subscribe, screenshot and send me the picture. Did you do it? Well, we did do that. So it was my friend passes as well as my friend's friend passes. Okay.
I think we were both kicked off like within 24 hours. Oh, God. I should let you on. Right? Yeah. But I've tried every avenue. Two friends of mine, two, met on Raya and married now. I think it makes life, again, maybe there's a different one. I'm told. That's the best one. I've seen some of my friends' Raya's. There's some people on that app. That's no joke. There are some people on that app. Oh, true.
Famous people. That's the other thing is I've literally said their names like in interviews. So I think... They should let you on. I think Raya will never, ever, ever, ever let me on. But you know what? It's their loss. Like... It's their... And I was giving them promotes. I'm going to petition Raya. Let her back on. This is Meghan McCain saying this. Okay? And I could probably make this weird. I'm sure we can lobby some things that place. Because it seems like...
it seems like you can't come on come on come on it's hard out here we're gonna come up with like a campaign slogan yes like we're gonna we're gonna do the whole thing there's a DC Raya that's how I know like it's in there's one in DC right for like famous DC I mean I'm sure it's like nerdier but right they should let you off they should and I totally and I like I'm I want to get back on there we're gonna make it happen like ugh
I think that's really... I think it's short-sighted on their part. I agree. How long ago was that? You've been in a relationship for two years. It must be over two years ago. It was like three years ago. They should let it go. Right. And I solemnly swear to never, ever, ever, ever, ever say the name of someone I see on there. My understanding is there's a lot of DJs on there. I'm sure. And like people like that, which again, great.
Yeah. I think it would be, I know. And, you know, and again, my level of fame is like baby fame. It's like not like, it's like tiny, tiny. It must be so hard to be like a, I'm not going to say who I saw either because apparently I'll get attacked. But like, it must be very hard to be. I, okay. I do know Ben Affleck was on it because someone exposed him. Remember? Okay. Someone else did it, right? By the way. So it's not our fault. No, there was like a, there was like a thing because Ben Affleck, like someone showed, he had, he like made a video saying it's actually me.
That's crazy. And the woman exposed it. I saw that on like page six or something. Right. Yeah. So the thing is, is I do remember when I was on Raya, I would try to match with the celebs and I, we wouldn't, like nothing ever came of it. Not one? No. And also celebrities, like famous people, do not slide into my DMs that much. That's probably, I mean... I think it's because I talk a lot and I will just say whatever. I mean...
Whatever. I need to be single anyways. So we don't even date. I love how I'm pretending I'm going to do this. Pray love. There's no way. Like I have to just have like a little bit of a distraction, you know? So you met your husband on Tinder. Twitter. Excuse me. Twitter. And you were hungover that day. Very. And I would just like to point that out because...
Because all of the times that I've gotten back together with an ex or I have just rekindled with someone has been when I was hungover. Really? There's something about being hungover. You're vulnerable. You're vulnerable. And I swear to God...
something about it. Like, so for anyone that's trying to get back together with someone, you need to pounce when you've seen that they've been partying the night before. Also, you be careful partying and then being vulnerable with this ex. Yes. Because you might... I need to. I mean, if you want to be broken up forever. Well, we had broken up once. And let me tell you, the day that I decided to hang out with him, I was extremely hungover. Do you think...
And again, I'll stop asking after this. Is there any potential for reconciliation? Okay. Zero. But I'm going to do some inner work. I might do some EMDR. Maybe ayahuasca. I don't know what EMDR is. I'm sorry. Is it like Molly? Like ecstasy? No, that's MDMA. MDMA. Okay. But EMDR, it's like, it's this type of therapy where they use rapid eye movement. I'm sorry. That's nothing like
that. Okay. I'm sorry. That's a normal therapy. I'm sorry. But there is therapy where you take ecstasy. Okay. Yeah. I think it's like soldiers with traumatic stress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that could be a route also. I mean, I'll figure it out. There's so many different ways. There's like mushrooms, whatever. Do you know what you're looking for? In therapy? No, in like a... Oh, I'm like, do you have seven hours? Do you want to go that deep?
I'm looking for someone who has similar values as me, which I never cared about previously. And now I'm like, okay, so that's important. And you know why? It's because...
Now, I'm not dating just to have fun. I'm dating for a life partner. Sure. Will I say that on the first date? No, because I feel like men will go fucking running. But I am going to be intentional about dating. I think some men want to get married. They do. It's such a hellscape out there. Guys can't love it either. No. Well, and that's the thing, actually, is I've...
learned recently, like men actually are just as obsessed with love as women are, or as we are, you know. I am my husband's third wife. Oh, okay. So he was obsessed with getting married. Okay. And obsessed with love. And it really freaked me out when I found out he was married twice before. Yeah. And I called my parents who were together because I was like freaked out. It was like at Christmas time. And my parents were like, who cares? Both of them.
My mother and my dad were like, who cares? So they're like, it doesn't matter. It's fine. So I'm just saying like, whatever I on paper don't want to, you know, I wouldn't have loved to be someone's third wife. And now I'm like third wife club. Third time's a charm. Wait, I think that's, third time's a charm. I've been saying that about my Invisalign treatment that I'm about
I swear to God, it's been my motto for like two days. I'm like, what the... I have to wear these retainers for a fucking year. Marriage is different, but I mean... I'm just saying, like, you never know. Make sure the values are aligned. And... But if there are like some things that, you know, maybe don't seem right, they're not necessarily... You shouldn't write someone off. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
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And I love that, like, both of your parents still married, have been married. Well, my dad's dead, but yeah, they were married. It's fine. I actually knew that. Don't worry. It's fine. But they were married for like 30 something years. Yeah. 30 years. Like 35 years. A long, very long time. That's a very long time. Yeah. Someone recently, like a few weeks ago, was like...
I don't know what was wrong with them. And God love them. They were like, I just saw your dad. It's so good to see him. And I was like, I feel like in person. Yes. And I think she was just confused me for someone else. Okay. How's he doing? Whatever. And I was like, well, died of brain cancer six years ago.
I'm not allowed to laugh. It made me laugh. And I was like, I don't know. And she and she was like, Oh, my God, like, had like this whole thing. But I was like, he and she was like, How is he? It's good, right? I just saw him. And I was like, I, and I was like, and then I was like, Did you visit his grave? Because like his grave is buried at the Naval Academy. I was like, I guess you could. So don't worry. It's totally fine. Thank you for making me feel so much better. I like literally wanted to disappear. And it's not even it's like when you're
in the middle of an interview or like so caught up in whatever? I am like... Okay. Literally, I like joke about my dad being dead quite often because it diffuses pain and situations with people where I'm like, well, on Father's Day, I do like a dead dad's club thing with my friend Kat Tip, my friend Daniel Krauthammer, who have both lost parents. And we have like dead parents club. And I like really...
Like, I own it sounds weird, but... No, it doesn't sound weird. It's using humor as catharsis. So there's not... Don't worry at all. Like, seriously. And I... The lady saying she saw my dad and he was great was weird. That's... That... Yes. My husband was like, like with a Ouija board. Yeah.
Okay. I'm like, do I laugh? Am I allowed to laugh right now? No, it's fine. Seriously. And brain cancer is like a very intense thing to die. Yeah. So sometimes, you know, like with that lady, I'm like, what people, sometimes people like confuse me for other people who are like, don't know. And I'll be like, he died of terminal brain cancer. And like, it makes people so uncomfortable because it's so sad. Yeah. And they're like, oh my God. I'm like, it's like,
I probably should use it less, but I find I can find humor in it now. Right. Because it's so fucked up. Right. But it's probably so annoying because then you have to make sure other people feel comfortable at the same time.
I mean, I like people. I'm not like a wallflower. I'm sort of an extrovert and I like meeting new people. And I find most people are nice and cool. Like, you know, of course there's some assholes. So I don't mind. You have that vibe. Oh, thank you. Like the second, like I saw you and you're wearing the chicest outfit I've,
ever seen. I was really worried about being overdressed, but I told you I cannot dress casual. I dress in sweatpants, Britney Spears when she was married to Kay Fed, like just a wreck of a person. A trucker car? Yes, a mess. Or this. There's nothing, I don't know how to do it and I don't like
I don't like picking out clothes and I don't like dressing up. And I was just like, okay, this will work. Whatever. So thank you. Do you have a stylist? No, it's too expensive now. And I just like, it's like a, even for my podcast, thinking about clothes is very stressful. I find it very stressful. It is so stressful.
stressful. Yes. Especially if you don't have it planned the night before. Do you have a stylist? No. Do you have someone for like your events or like If it's like a huge event, I will. And it's
So expensive. So expensive. It's crazy. I went to Bergdorf Goodman yesterday when I took my train in and then I go, I know, like, chill out, internet. I know this is like first world white people problems. I cannot believe what things cost. At Bergdorf. I cannot. Who is buying this? I don't know. I have questions. I have questions.
Who's buying this? I ask myself the same shit all the time. Who can afford a $6,000 jacket? I want to talk to you. And also... And I know internet, stop. Nepo baby, you don't know my life and I don't live off my dead parents. Okay? My live mother, my dead dad. Like, whatever. I support myself. You were telling me about your... You bought your...
bag secondhand. I did. I went on Fashionphile. Do you know that website? Yeah. It's so good. Is it? I haven't. You know where I usually get my secondhand stuff is off eBay. Oh, you know, I like eBay too. Yeah. I have a real repulsion to how much high luxury talk costs right now. And I actually, I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a financial journalist one time. And again, if
If this is untrue, feel free to fact check me. But you can tell the way the American economy is going by how much high fashion costs and how successful strip clubs are. Because if people are spending excess amount of money in both places, it means the economy is doing well or not doing well. That's very interesting. I follow like high fashion articles and news because I'm just like interested in like Chanel raising their prices and if people are paying for it and blah, blah, blah. The Chanel thing is insane. Yeah.
I don't... I'm not like a Chanel shop... I mean, that second hand bag I have, which is not the one that's $10,000. It's just a bag bag. I find it...
Like almost like a psyop. Do you know what that means? No. And I was shaking my head, but... It's fine. This is like such a political term, but it's like something when like the government or the military does something that's like a psychological test of you. And I'm wondering if like they're doing it to see just how much dumb people will pay for bags. I mean, of course they are. I mean, the whole strategy behind Hermes and the Birkin and the Kelly's, they're...
It's extremely, incredibly expensive. They're way more expensive buying them secondhand. It's the exclusivity because you can't buy it firsthand. Like it's almost impossible. I like nice things like every other woman, but I'm not going to be spending... I have two kids and also just I just find it like...
like gross. As I get older, it becomes less and less fulfilling and fun. I love good, I love fun things. I love fashion, like whatever. But I saw a video on, I think TikTok or Instagram, I don't remember it. It was like a video of one of the Kardashians closets. And I was just like, this is like, it's so much. It's how do you enjoy it? It's
It's so much shit. Do we think they get excited about anything? I was actually thinking about this the other day. Does anything make them happy anymore? That I really want to know. Like if they get, you know, the exclusive whatever designer, whatever. But even just anything. Like what...
Does anything make them happy? I watch the Kardashians, not like religiously, but I watch like everybody else. And I actually find them to be... I've met Kim. She's lovely. I don't know if you have. I have not. She's very nice. Yes. But I find them like...
this era of that kind of excess, like kind of going to the wayside. Like, I'll be interested to see how they continue to do in the next five years, because I don't know if like 55 year old Kim Kardashian is going to be as interesting in the current incarnation without evolving. Right. So do you think currently people are just like shifting away from glamour obsession? Yeah.
I think there's always going to... Look, again, I like nice things like every other woman. And I like looking at beautiful clothes and beautiful people. And I think there's always going to be that element of it. But I do think...
Like, you know, not to be depressing, but how how bad inflation is. I have a friend who came on my podcast who was talking about how I might butcher this. So her name's Batya. I'm sorry if I do. Something like 25 percent of Americans have had an experience in the past two years where they were grocery shopping and couldn't afford their groceries and had to put their grocery like something back to pay for it. And I feel like.
The like, I think it's the root of the problems in America on no matter what your perspective is, the very wealthy getting more and more wealthy and the very poor, the middle class and the poor getting poorer. So I just don't know how tonally you reconcile that when you're like, there was blowback to Kylie Kardashian, I believe, when she was like, take his or her jets. Do you remember this? Mm-hmm.
Like with her boyfriend? Kind of. And I feel like that's the kind of stuff people are sick of. It's kind... Yes. It's like... I'm trying to think of the way I post. And I will be weary of that, you know? Like, oh, I just got these Chanel slides and I'm like... Okay, so...
I mean, way back when, I would have been posting the fuck out of them. And now I'm like, maybe that's in bad taste. Yeah. You know? I think it's… Again, I think it's fine. You work hard for your money. And also, I'm acting like I have 90 pairs of… I have these Chanel flats and two Chanel slides total. No, I think like you work hard for your money. You're a very successful woman. I think it's great to like…
Like, again, me too. Like, I have no problem with people making money doing well, whatever. I think there's just something about the extravagant excess at the same time not seeming to like...
Be wary of how it seems. Yeah. Be self-aware. Yeah. I think I've been doing this new thing where instead of numbing myself or distracting myself with like alcohol and partying, I've been using shopping. That's a thing too. I've certainly done that. That's like kind of my thing right now. Where do you shop? eBay, like just online. Like it's right at your fingertips. Like I'll just go crazy. You know? That's normal. You know. There's worse things. Yes. There are
worst things before. Yes, of course. Okay. I'm sorry you're going through a breakup. I know. It's really rough. It is rough, but I have not felt the feelings yet because I've been shopping. That's good. You could be, you know, you could be doing way worse things than that. Thank you. Way worse. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. I'm telling you, you're so fine. You're so young. Seriously. And if there's, I'm like, I literally in my head, I'm like, Vanessa, let's make eye contact.
If you come to D.C., you could be like a gazelle among a herd of lions. They're going to tear you apart. Seriously, you just got to leave New York a little bit in the political space. People would be like, look at this. Yes, like her. She's doing this gorgeous woman. It's all about relativity. Totally. All about relativity. Totally. Yeah. I put out an episode about my Coachella experience. Did you go this last? Yes. Was it fun? It was so fun.
That is a really bitter, sad thing for me. I talk about it in the episode. I partied a little bit too hard on the first night. What'd you do? And... That sounds so fun. I'm going to tell you off camera what I did. Did you see Sabrina Carpenter? Let's just say that it's something that they could use in therapy and do use in therapy. Got it. Which could be a lot of different things. That's a great way to put it. But my whole point was like...
I'm a Coachella. Don't make it to Lana Del Rey because I party too hard.
And then I have like friends getting engaged. At Coachella? Not at Coachella, but just the juxtaposition, you know, like my friend calling me saying, oh my God, I just got engaged and we just bought a house together. And then I'm over here, you know, having to go home early because I turned up a little too hard. I think you need to give yourself some grace. And I think that there was a period of time that I was like,
I'm literally going to die alone. Like, no, I'm never going to meet anybody. And then I gave up and I was just like, fuck all of this. I hate it so much. And I know it sounds, I remember when I would talk to married people and they would tell me that shit like this, I would be like, shut up. You're married. You don't know what this is like. So I get that energy. But I also think that like,
It's a really hard time right now. I think the energy is really off in politics and everything. There's a really wild time in the world in general. And you're looking for someone to like find like a safe haven with. And that's a tall order. But and it's not even just the dating. I think it's the age thing where I'm like, I'm 31. Why am I doing this at Coachella when I should be buying a home and blah, blah, blah. I think that...
You got to be... Give myself some grace. Yeah. And I also think it like, it sounds so cheesy, but everything really is just the journey of where you're at. I agree. And I think that when I was 31, I think I was going to, like around that age, I was going to not Coachella, but like Palm Springs with my friends and like partying and whatever. I love... And like, I haven't always been in a white pants suit with kids, okay? Like...
I just I think that like it's and I it society is very hard on people and they're very like if you're not married and babies at whatever age and like especially in my circles and like conservative circles. And you know what is different now? Is it like my nieces and like young people I meet like they don't think that I'm going to be some like judgmental bitch that can't understand their life. Yeah. And I think that like you just have to like give yourself a break. I know. Yeah.
And who cares if you party a little too hard at Coachella? It sounds like fun. It was night one. My friend got pregnant at Coachella, so it could be way worse. I'm serious. I'm not going to out her, but my friend got pregnant at Coachella. She did. I'm truly fucking
She did. And she didn't know it. And then she came home and she was like, I was like, it was the Beyonce year. Like, Beychella. Well, of course. I was like, of course you got pregnant. It was probably all those energy and the vibe. Yes. So like, way worse than partying a little too hard, missing Lana. That,
And her child's amazing. And it's one of, it was just a surprise. That is quite the surprise. That is the best fucking story I've ever heard. That's why you were like, oh, your friends were getting engaged at Coachella. I mean, things happen there. I'm sure. I'm sure people get engaged. People do fall in love at music festivals. Is it still fun, Coachella? It was the most fun. Okay. I've had in a very long time. Okay. Okay. I'm going to ask...
one final question that is not going to be about dating and about me.
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Okay, you've said that you think the Republican Party could be a place for a 24-year-old pro-sex woman to thrive.
So that quote, I was telling you. Was that misquoted? No, I don't know if I actually said that, but maybe I said that at 24. And I think I'm going to give you guys like a real like scoop here, but I was not a virgin when I got married at 32. I know. That's insane. You guys, I know. That's insane. And I have found, and I think this is still true even now, that there are a lot of people in the conservative movement, particularly like right now, this like very trad wife, you have to fit into this certain box, you know,
type of mentality that I find like very detrimental to the, you know, just the ideology and ideas we're trying to like, you know, explain to people why I think it's a better way for the government to be run. But what's weird is like, I feel kind of like,
I still feel very not alone. That's not the right word, but like, I still feel like an endangered animal and the Republican party. Cause I'm like, not a Trumper. I'm still a conservative, but I was not a trad wife conservative. I'm still not at all. Like I'm here with you. My husband's with our kids at home. Like I still don't adhere to that. And it's funny cause my husband's hyper conservative and he was,
homeschooled and like came from a very different background. And I always thought it was interesting. He didn't want a trad wife either. Like he chose like this, like, you know, I'm super independent and whatever. But I think it can be, but...
Right now, this is like a tougher... It's a tough time. I have single girlfriends who are Republicans who hate that it's turned into this, like you have to be married with kids to be... But those are like alt-right weird guys that are sort of... That want that. Yeah. Does that answer your question? Yes, it did. It did. And the fact that you know what a trad wife is... Doesn't everybody know what a trad wife is? I didn't know that until my friend told me. Like there was...
terminology for it on TikTok. I didn't know what it was. I just knew that I have an obsession. Not positive, not negative. Just... Who's your... Narasimha. Yeah, everyone's obsessed with her. I just, I can't look away. I'm like, I want to be her, but I also like disdain everything that's happening. Like it's... I'm not mad at her because I think, you know, I'm not going to attack her. And I'm a fan of like the...
The fantasy. Yes. But it's a fantasy. Yes. Let's be clear. She's got three kids, I think maybe four now, and a stepkid. I don't, you cannot, I have two children. I cannot make anything from scratch in my kitchen. They're either nannies or those kids are on screen time watching iPads. I don't know the answer. Maybe her husband's doing it, but I don't find it. No, but even if her and her husband are both doing it, it's not...
Like, she just had a baby, like, two, three weeks ago. Yeah. I think that... And again, I'm not... I like her. Like, she actually seems like a nice person. Yeah. In some of the videos. But I worry about this... I worry about where we're going with this. It makes women feel bad. It does make women feel bad. And I think, again, there are women that want to have kids and can't because they haven't met the right person. There are women who want to have kids and then just can't.
just can't because they have fertility issues. There are women who don't want to stay and cook and be at home, but still want a man. Like I thought we were sort of like past this in a feminist movement. And I consider myself a third way feminist. And I, I don't, I want my daughters, I have two daughters. I want them to choose what they want. And I worry that we're like fantasizing this stay at home mom in a way that is, is makes just me is just, excuse me, designed to make women feel bad. Right. It's, it's,
It's like a pendulum swinging because I thought we like went away from that and then it like comes back. It's kind of interesting. Do you want to hear my theory on why? Yes. I think this is a post-COVID thing. I think post-COVID people got into homesteading because they're like worried about the cities and viruses and were like acutely aware that like the apocalypse could be here.
And that they just like started being like more, much more traditional. But it's again, you're, it is not traditional. You're like live streaming this for social media. And those things look produced to me. So as a producer involved, you're not like on, my brother lives, legitimately lives on a farm in Arizona. You're not doing what they're doing with like tractors and stuff. The ballerina farm.
I don't like her. She's the one. Sorry, I don't like Ballerina Farm. Sorry, no offense to that. There are nannies involved. Her husband owns JetBlue. Okay. What are we talking about? They're billionaires. Stop it. But they're like getting milk from the cows on their farm and grains from the grains they grow. And also, let me tell you something. Again, giving birth is fucking hard. Yeah. Stop making it look easy. Yeah. Okay? Okay.
Like I couldn't walk because I had preeclampsia after I, which means your blood pressure is so high that you could die. Like I hate this idea that women are just supposed to bounce back immediately and it's going to be fun. It is that to me is very dangerous messaging. And I hate that shit.
Sorry to be like so aggro about that. No, I think that's totally valid. You do have some responsibility when you have a following like that. Yeah. I'm pretty sure she entered a pageant. Yeah, like right after. Within the same week or two weeks or three. Like it was within the month. I just think again, like you're not...
you know, if you're actually working on a working farm, it's going to look a lot different. And again, I say that my brother, my brother and his wife literally own a farm right outside Sedona. So like, I know what it looks like and it is not. You fact checked it. I did. Perfect. Yes.
And going to pageants and whatever. And the funny thing is like their oven, that oven, have you seen it cost like 30 grand or something? Yes. And I'll take your homemade bread. I know. But the oven's 30 grand. It's like 30 grand. They must be selling a lot of wheat and grains. Plain tickets.
Okay, Megan, you were, you're amazing. Oh my gosh. Thank you. You're so cool. You're so down to earth. And thank you so much. I really enjoyed speaking with you. I just want to tell you, like, I want to get too personal, but like, I've been through bad breakups when I was younger. And like,
I'm not that much older than you, but it's really hard. You are beautiful and you have an incredibly successful career and I do not get up in your feelings about it. And I don't, when I, let me tell you one last thing. No, please do. When you have kids, if you want kids, if you want to have them, whatever. It,
And when I am in the depths of like feeding my child milk in the middle of the night and they can't sleep or they're throwing, my daughter had some kind of stomach flu and literally spent the entire night throwing up on me and my husband, taking shifts, throwing up on my husband. And I was like, thank God I used to party at the Chateau Marmont and I have that to pull from because I lived my life before I did this. I lived hard.
hard and I did everything. And that is why I don't I am like content with where I'm at right now. The people who don't live life and party too hard at Coachella, those are the ones that start having midlife crises, wanting to party and whatever when they're like 40 or 45. So never undo your good times. Okay. I mean, that I don't even know if you realize how many women are
you just helped by saying that. I swear to God. I wouldn't undo any of my hard nights. Like, and again, I wasn't like, you know, crazy, but I was single in LA, you know? And like, I can remember, I mean, again, like, you know, I had a tiny enough fame to get me into Ledoux. Like, like,
healed me right now. I'm telling you, I literally, when my daughter was throwing up on us, I told her husband, I was like, you know, 10 years ago, I had my 30th birthday party at the Chateau Marmont. And like, I was living again, as you can imagine, not sober, like whatever. And it will get you through those nights. Just think of yourself when you're closer to my age and you're closer to 40, it will feed you. Oh my God. So fuck them. I'm
I'm going to Coachella every year. I'm going to the next music festival there is. You are incredible, Megan. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sophia, really. And with that, you guys, I mean, there's not much else to say. I love you so much and I will talk to you next week. Bye.
