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It's Sophia Franklin. You are listening to Sophia with an F. And the F is for phenomenal. This podcast is rated F. You fucked half of New York. I do want to know what your thoughts are on body count. Body count? What does that mean? It's how many people you've slept with. Oh, how do I feel about it? Mm-hmm. I think people should...
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Hi, everybody. Welcome to Sophia with an F. Please subscribe if you haven't already. We are recording from WTF Media Studios in New York, and I am joined by Meredith Marks.
Thank you so much for being here. You are stunning, gorgeous. Your outfit is insane. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I have to support my dear friend, Frederick Anderson, the designer, who I love and is unbelievably talented. And I'm so happy to be here. And you look gorgeous, too. Thank you. Meredith and I were just talking about vaginas. Yes.
specifically my vagina, because for whatever reason, in the past month, there's been at least three vagina situations.
And what I mean by that is I'm unintentionally, by the way, flashing my vagina to people. Oh, no, we think it's very intentional. See? She's a flasher. No, see? I get a kick out of it. Right? What are those people you can get arrested for it? Like, you, like, expose yourself. A voyeur. No, no. No, not a voyeur. A exhibitionist. An exhibitionist, right? I get off on it.
That's like my little dirty secret. Meredith, thank you so much for being here. I have been watching the show since the inception, and I just love two gals from Utah here in New York.
You're not originally from Utah, though. No, I'm originally from Chicago. Okay. And we have lived in a lot of different places, and we still live in a lot of places. We're very mobile. Uh-huh. Like my vagina. Yes. Very mobile. Yes. Always on the go. Never at one spot at once.
Your origin story I find so fascinating. More than any of the other housewives. Not putting them down. But I just think your background education-wise, you have a law degree and one of the most successful jewelry lines. Thank you. Which is insane. Yeah, I do. I have a law degree. I also have a business degree. Okay. And I love what I do. I love – I mean –
Look, working with diamonds, it's like not a bad thing. It's not. No. Never, never, ever, ever. Except I think I would get in trouble. I wouldn't sell anything. I would just take it home and be wearing it. Well, that is the problem part of it. But you graduated from Northwestern. I did for graduate school, for law school and business school, yes. Okay. Okay.
Did you ever really pursue like the law path? Not really. I, you know, had a very short moment where I practiced, but it was very short lived. And I use, you know, my legal background in business every day. I'm very happy that I went to law school and it
you know, trains you in a different way of thinking. Of course. I just never really wanted to practice. So did you go to school just to kind of say you did it? Or because your parents were like, you have to? No. Actually, when I first started, I was an undergrad. I was a junior. And I took a criminal justice class. And I was just fascinated. I've always been fascinated by the criminal mind. But I'm a very afraid person, like in terms of safety. And I could never practice criminal law.
So I went and I thought I maybe would do that. And then as soon as I really thought about it, I thought, it's not going to work for me. Yeah.
And I finished law school, which, I mean, the law in general is very interesting and the whole way of thinking is amazing, but it wasn't really what I wanted to do. Right. And so that's why my first year while I was in the law school, I then applied to the business school to do the joint degree. That's pretty badass. That's pretty incredible. And then how did you go from...
that to designing jewelry and selling it on Main Street in Park City? So it's kind of crazy because it's very contrary to what you would think. But shortly after I finished school, I had
opened actually a health club in Chicago. First Pilates and gyrotonics studio there. This is a long time ago. You have a Pilates body. Well, thank you. I'll take that. An incredible body. Thank you. Thank you. You as well. Thank you. And I was walking from drop. I had a meeting at school after I dropped my oldest son off in kindergarten. It's 9am on the 1400 block of Dearborn Street, which like
Nobody would think twice, you know, you think you're safe. And a guy came running up from behind me and slammed me down on the ground and went to grab my handbag, which was hooked over my arm and started dragging me across the street. Yes.
The taxi driving down the street stopped. They started chasing him regardless. He went to prison, whatever. I was completely traumatized though. And I decided at that point that I wasn't really doing what I wanted to be doing in life. That like I just – it wasn't what I wanted and that I was going to pivot and make a change. Yeah.
And that is when shortly thereafter, Seth said to me, I have a business trip, you know, in India and Hong Kong. And I said, great, there's a lot of stones coming out of there. There's a lot of production coming out of there. I'm coming with you and I'm starting a jewelry collection. And everyone thought I was insane because this was in like 2005 when we were in a nasty, nasty recession. Yeah.
And everyone thought I was completely crazy. Why are you doing a luxury business in the height of the worst recession ever? And I was like, because now I can. There are no barriers to entry because everybody needs business right now. And I don't have inventory. I don't have stock. I'm going in clean. So I did. So when did you marry Seth? We got married in 1997. Okay.
So you guys have been together for… For 96. I mean, it doesn't… I mean, whatever. 96. People always ask me, like, my anniversary. I'm like, I don't… I don't know. You know, I'm not great with numbers. I have to say, like, even when someone's like, how old is your mother? I'm like, well, she was born in 1947. I have to do the math. No.
When you said we got married in 1997, I was like, okay, 2023, and then there's three numbers left after 1997.
Yes. I mean, I'm good with the math part of it. I'm not good with the years, the time part of it. You know what? We don't – we can't be hot and smart. I'm totally joking. I mean, God forbid. But if you had to pick one, like, I want to be hot. You know what I'm saying? Well, I want both. Sorry. No, I'm sorry.
Okay, Meredith, you left me out like hanging to dry. No, you can be hot and smart, but you don't have to be good at everything. Correct. And you can hire mathematicians. Correct. To figure out your anniversary. That's what you need to do. But it's not about the math. It's more about the time. Like I feel like...
Time goes by and I don't realize it, you know? It's like I feel like I'm still 24 and I'm not, obviously. I mean, you look extremely young and I feel like you act young.
I was about to ask how old you are, and I feel like that's not – but I can ask that. Oh, you can. I'm like easy about that. You're a reality star. Yeah, you have to be open with it. I'm 51. Okay, you're the same age as my mom. Oh, well, there you go. See, I could be the mom. You could be the mom. And my mom had me when she was 20, 21, and then had my brother 11 years later.
Oh, wow. That's a big gap. Yeah. So she's just now having fun. Yeah. And acts 25. And I love it. She's my best friend in the whole world. Okay. I need to meet mom. Hello. You guys are both in Utah. Done deal. She actually, she lives, we live, well, not we, but she lives right next to Lisa Barlow. No way. In Draper. Yes. That's so fun. Like literally next door? No. Same neighborhood. Oh.
all in the same like community. Oh, that's so funny. And they both go to Treehouse, which is the gym. That is so funny. So are they friends? I don't know if they're friends. They've spoken before. I think like
Maybe once or twice. Yeah. One time was a very long conversation. I don't remember. Oh, I think my mom pulled up her 23andMe to show Lisa her Ashkenazi Jew side of the family. I love it. And then Lisa ate it up and then they were showing each other their 23andMe. Oh, that's so funny. Right? That is so funny. Very funny. I've seen her at the gym maybe once or twice just when I go home for the holidays, but...
I would be pissed if someone came up to me with a gym. Wait, so is your mom, like, really Jewish or just genetically Jewish? Like, practicing your – Ethnically. Ethnically, yeah. Yeah. We don't – my grandma converted to Mormonism, which is unheard of, aside from Lisa Barlow. Right, right, right. You know? Right, right.
So that was interesting. Although, Lisa, I'm not sure, and I could be wrong. This is a question we have to ask because I can't recollect. She grew up in upstate New York where the mission, the whole Mormon movement started. Right. And the missionaries knocked on her door. This is my understanding, and she told me this a very long time ago, so if I'm getting the facts wrong, Lisa, I'm sorry. Once again, this is not factual. Exactly. Yeah.
But no, they came knocking on her door. And I think her mother was like, this is what I was looking for or something to that effect and converted. And I'm not sure. And then Lisa did.
And I'm not sure if her father did or did not. Okay. I'm not sure. Got it. And the mother, I don't think, was Jewish. But I could be wrong on all this. I heard you loud and clear. Why don't I tell the wrong story for somebody else? That's for sure. We will absolutely. Okay, see, did my vagina just come out? Guys, I just bent over. Actually, it was my butt, which is fine. That, I'm willing to show off. That one, I'm ready to go. Okay.
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Your cash back really adds up. Okay, we started talking about Lisa Barlow. I'm very interested in you. So you married Seth in 97. Did he help you launch the jewelry line?
I mean, yes and no. Like, he helped me in the sense that he was supportive of me and there. And I crashed his business trips to do my R&D. But I did it. I really did it on my own. Right. It was my baby and, you know, Seth. Yeah.
And I, I mean, obviously we just launched our podcast, which maybe you'll come on our podcast next. Are you, are you doing it in Utah? We're doing it kind of everywhere, you know, wherever we are. So, you know, because we're. That's what you do. Not in one place for all that long. No. Um.
And that way, like, if we're in New York, we can have you on in person, live. I would love. I need to be the first guest. You can have any other housewife, just me. I love it. I love it. So what made the jewelry line so successful during a time where the economy was trash? You know, I started with direct-to-consumer when people weren't doing that.
It was not real common. And it was really just out of necessity because at the time, stores were not writing orders. Like that was just not happening. And so I started by just doing these like events where I'd host a cocktail, host a luncheon, host a whatever, and people come and they would shop. You know, I kind of just took it slowly from there. And at the time, you know, gold prices were high. We're in the height of a massive recession. And I have a lot of
A lot of my early designs that I still make and sell used a lot of negative space to keep the cost of the gold down. Oh, smart. You know, and still have a sizable piece because everyone wanted big stuff and whatever. Mm-hmm.
So that was like the beginning. And then, you know, as things got better, I started growing and building and doing more business with stores and, you know, still always direct to consumer. And then online started becoming much more of a thing. I mean, when I started like...
You didn't sell jewelry online, not fine jewelry. No. That's so crazy. No. You would not like – no one would even put a price on a website back then. Not for jewelry. For other things, yes. But like I feel like fine jewelry was kind of the last category to really go –
Totally. Totally. And I think it's still, it's like, I would say it's the only, not the only, but one of the only products right now that have brick and mortar successful operations. Yes. Well, because, you know, you have,
things that are of high value that take up very little space. So it works for that model, whereas, you know, things that are big, it's just you're paying more rent. And people still want to see it and touch it and feel it. And I feel like it's much harder to sell online to people who have never seen your collection. And if they've seen it and they have a vibe for what you make, then they're more comfortable, you know? So...
You have this extremely successful jewelry line. You still do. Why reality television? You know, that it came about so bizarre. I mean, I,
I got a text message from my dear friend who owns my favorite restaurant in Park City. And it was a group message to me and to Lisa, because she knows Lisa as well. And she said, my husband's friend from college is a producer and they want to do a reality show in Utah. Will you talk to them?
And I was like, okay, sure. And I didn't know I was being cast. Like I thought because I had a store on Main Street, they wanted to kind of just chat and get some ideas or whatever. So I was like, okay. And then they're like, well, can you do a Skype? And I was like, oh, well, this doesn't sound like you're just picking my brain. Why would we get on a Skype? And that's when I realized they were, you know, casting me.
And I did not know it was Housewives. We did not find that out until about maybe six weeks before we started filming season one. So you just knew that there was a show that was going to be filmed. About career-oriented women in Utah. So, but they like maybe, you know, they hinted at it a little before, you know, they're like, well, what if it's Housewives or whatever, you know, like, so we weren't shocked, but we did not know that. Yeah.
And I was very nervous. Like I was really nervous about it because I'm not a big TV watcher and I didn't really like know what I was getting myself into. Okay. So now you absolutely know. Yes. And so when you decided, okay, let's, I'm going to do this.
What's the harm, right? I'm assuming that was kind of your train of thought. Well, yes, because when I found out it was Housewives, I was like, oh, I have the best idea ever. I'm going to watch one episode from every franchise because I hear they're all totally different. Uh-huh. So I can get a vibe because we don't know what ours is going to be, right? Mm-hmm.
So that's what I did, which was, and I'm like, oh, this is not such a big deal. There's nothing so bad. Because you see no story arc. You just see that like moment where maybe there's an argument or whatever, you know? And I was like, oh, this is not a big deal. Like I had no idea what I was getting into. Zero clue. Zero clue. So how do you feel about it now? Yeah.
On the fourth season. Like everything else in life, you have positives and negatives. There's like always going to be a love-hate. Yes. There are going to be moments that are difficult. There are going to be moments that are infuriating. And there are going to be moments that are spectacular. And it's a matter of how you choose to embrace it. And I choose...
choose to try to focus on the positive and not focus on the negative. And, you know, like last night's episode was hard for me to watch for reasons that had nothing to do with anything the audience would ever, well, I guess you kind of do see it at the tail end that there's obviously something deeper going on. With Angie. Yeah.
Well, no, me internally. Internally. Yeah. Yeah. And like I had stuff going on that I was, that was very upsetting. I have no idea if we'll flush that out or not. I don't know. Obviously, I don't know what gets shown in the future, but it was hard for me to watch because it took me back to that time and that place. And it was just like, I had a lot on my mind that was very distressing and I felt kind of mistreated, you know? And it was like,
But on the flip side, there are all these other positives that come out. You know, you get to really have an introspective look at the way you communicate, at the way you handle situations, at the way you just deal with life in general and hopefully work
learn and improve and do better. Right. And you get to, you know, talk about the causes you care about that are important to you and try to, you know, educate on those and hopefully maybe even raise money or whatever it is, you know, your objective is. I mean, for me, it's always awareness and raising money for anything that's charitable. And you get to talk about your businesses and, you know, showcase that. And there's like a lot of fun activities, things like that. Yeah. There are things that are unpleasant, you know.
100%. I think anytime you are going to enter the public space and share your life in such a public way, there's no way that that's going to not come with a significant amount of hardship.
But there is so much good that comes out of it too. Yes. And even like, you know, once in a while I'll be walking down the street and literally I'll have someone who stops me and they said, you have helped me so much by sharing my journey or sharing my children's journey or whatever it may be. It could be anything under the sun, but you have helped me so much to realize that, you know, other people have these problems, whatever. Um,
That to me is everything. That brings me so much happiness to know that you've touched somebody, to know that you've helped, that you've done something positive. A hundred percent. I remember season three, I felt touched by a lot of things that you said that season. You really went through it. I don't know where you are in your journey, but you seem incredible happy. And I think it helps people understand
so much that we don't even realize just being open talking about it you know yes and that's what you're known for that is what I'm known for that is so you know and it comes at a price I mean it's a little bit scary but I would say the overwhelming response is
regardless of what it is that I'm sharing is positive. For the most part, there are moments, and we were a COVID baby, you know, we launched in the height of the pandemic, which definitely had a very different tone in the world in general. And so the way people engaged with us and received us was different.
probably a bit unusual. I had a similar, mine was like a similar story. Yeah. And it can be hard. Like, I feel like people were hyper, hyper critical. Yes. So that was a little bit difficult. Hyper involved. Yes. Well, because they had nothing else to do. Yes. Yes. Yes.
So that was a little bit tough. But the reality is when you get into the groove and you learn to say, okay, I know I've done this much that's been great for people and, you know, not everything I do is great. I'm not saying that. But, you know, I have done these positive things. And then you get met with criticism. You just don't care about it anymore. You know? You're like, who cares? You reach a certain point where it's like –
It does not. I mean, maybe like over time it can sometimes weigh you down a tiny bit, but I've been through it to the point where it takes a lot. It would take something outrageous for me to really get offended or let it affect me. And the thing too is like you also realize it's the same people on the social media stuff. There's different accounts.
No, but like the same, like, you know, 20 people. Yes. It's always the same people making the nasty comments, whether it's about you or somebody else or whatever. It's the same, you know, like they're bored. And they'll turn on you in two seconds or love you in two seconds. I totally understand that. You've been very open on the show and I...
I feel like your kids have maybe been the most involved, at least Brooks. Yeah. More than the other kids on the show. Did you – and I'm bringing this up because Kris Jenner had a conversation with Kim Kardashian saying, sometimes I don't know if it was the right thing, like putting you guys on reality TV. This is very different because Brooks is an adult. But did you have like that conversation with him? Yeah.
Yes, of course. But it's been a bit of an ongoing thing because Brooks, you know, he was in a Broadway play when he was very young. He's been in the modeling industry for a very long time. Well, he's back in it now. He had years of hiatus, but as a, you know, tween was still modeling. Yeah.
And so we've had a lot of conversations over the years about this kind of thing. You know, I was very, very hesitant to let him do any of it when he was little, like very hesitant. He begged for a long time. Right. So we did that. I,
over the years, many times we did it again coming onto the show. I talked with my other two children, Reed and Chloe, about it as well. Reed has never been on the show, so it's kind of been a non-issue. Did he ask? Like, I don't want to. You know what? He's in real estate and he was at a big company up until very recently, so it would not make sense for him. It could do a lot of damage, as we saw for Justin Rose. There are...
potential negatives that, you know, you got to be a little careful with.
It was just never even on his radar and never pushed her in courage because he needs to do what's right for him. And Chloe, you know, has been on a little here and there as it's worked for her and she's had her ups and downs with it. And when she's been uninterested, then no problem, you know, do what works for you. But yeah, you definitely have to have that conversation to make sure they know what they're getting into because it's
The reality is I didn't know what I was getting into. Right. And I could be – like I knew it was, you know, you're putting yourself in the public light and that comes with a lot of potential problems. Yeah. But – But a lot of potential upside for you and your kids. Correct. It's like, you know, like everything else in life. Yeah. And, I mean, you really have no idea what to expect. Right.
No. Like, you know you're going to be on reality television, but you don't know how they're going to edit or what's going to, you know. No. And it's that, you know, and at the end of the day, and everyone's like, oh, the edits, da-da-da-da, and they want to all criticize it, but…
The reality of reality TV is it's snippets, it's moments. And if you saw the whole thing unfold, it wouldn't be so entertaining. Yes. Let's be honest. Like what makes it entertaining is there are gaps. And it leaves room for speculation. And that's why it works. And if they filled in all those gaps to tell every little part of what you want to put out there…
That's going to be boring. You would lose all viewership. Yeah. I mean, we are now in a society where if there's not a fight breaking out or at least tensions rising for more than five minutes, if that's not happening, it's like, okay, like I got to fast forward to the next thing. That's like how we're wired now. It's interesting. I do think too, though, like,
I think that has calmed a little bit. Okay. During the pandemic, I think everyone just wanted, like, all of it, you know? Everyone's so frustrated, you know? Yes. And now that, like, life is a little more back to normal, I think that, like,
The audience can get a little overwhelmed by the fighting sometimes. That's very true as well. Yeah. That's very true. You know? I guess if it's a deep fight. If it's a light fight, like over a bathtub, no one's getting that invested and it's fun and it's funny, you know? How is the bathtub doing? I love my baths. I've never been a bath gal before.
Well, you might have to try it out. I think I need to. You do. I'm going to try that out and underwear. Oh. I don't know that the bath and the underwear really have anything to do with each other. No, just that they're both going to be first for me that I'm going to embark on. I guess you can be clean before you put on your first pair of underwear. There you go. Thank you. Bada boom, bada bang. So...
You haven't asked this 700,000 times. I'm going to ask again because I just want to hear from you. The rant that Lisa Barlow went on, which was bonkers, was,
Why? Well, first of all, is there, what did she say? You fucked half of New York was her ending line. I don't know if that was the ending, but yeah, it was in there for sure. It was definitely in there. Amongst a million other things. Garbage or bitch, whatever it was. Where do you think that came from? You know, I'm not entirely sure. I had...
Asked Lisa a multitude of times throughout that winter what was going on because I was sensing all this hostility and she kept saying everything was fine, which obviously it was not. I don't know she has made reference, you know, to it all coming from things that Jen said to her, you know. Yeah. Fast forward to like real time now.
I have no idea. You know, Jen's not there to speak for herself, so I don't really take it too seriously because making those allegations of someone who can't answer to me is somewhat irrelevant at this point. Yeah. So I don't really know. How is your friendship now? So you have to watch this season to see where we land. Okay. But clearly it's better as, you know. It's better. As we've seen already. Yeah. But it's not, I mean, do you think you'll ever be 100%? Yeah.
You know, we can't go back to where we were. And I don't think we should go back to where we were. Like, life is about moving forward, not backwards. I don't know. You know, that's, at the end of the day, at some level, that's going to be up to her because I have just kind of...
Been very open, welcoming. I'm not doing anything that should be a problem. I have nothing nasty to say about her. I have nothing, you know, but positive energy to send her away. So it's really up to her where she wants to take it. Yeah. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go.
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Thank you.
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I have to commend you because you are so poised to
And you really like always have it pretty, you know, kept together. For the most part. Except last night. Except last night. You can leave. But I mean, in comparison. Correct. You are very, I see where like the law and the legal and class and just class comes from. It like seeps in. But can you kind of poke fun at the Lisa rant now?
Oh, I mean. Or are you still horrified? No. I mean, it's horrifying. I mean, it's like, it's so absurd. That's what I, thank you. I was going to ask. It's so absurd. I was going to ask, okay, she said you slept with half of New York. Have you slept with anyone in this room? I thought I was sleeping.
I had to feel it out and see if you would find it funny. Because it is so absurd. Oh, it's so absurd. And the funny thing is, is I'm actually relatively reserved, to be totally honest. But also, what's wrong with sleeping with people? Nothing. If that's what you want to do and that's, you know, what makes you happy, go for it. You know, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not what makes me happy.
Well, I shouldn't say that. Sleeping with my husband, yes. If I'm in a relationship or whatever, yes. Sleeping with half of New York would not work for me. Trust me. That's a lot of people. And I don't think Lisa would be the first one to come out and say something. I mean, it might come out with like, that might be like 200 people a day every day of my life since I was born or something like that. I mean, I'm not the mathematician here as we discussed, but. That is so hilarious. Yes.
And why New York? Like, why did she pick New York? Because she's – I honestly, I don't know. Probably because I'm here all the time. For the last, I don't know, 15 years, I've been here 30 to 50% of the year. Wow. With Seth. With Seth.
Sometimes it's not, sometimes not. He's here now, but he's not always with me. I mean, we're together a lot now. But during the years that we were separated and struggling in our marriage and everything else, we were not together a lot. Like we tried not to be together a lot. Which I think is so incredible. I went to a wedding the other day and they exchanged vows and they were talking about being high school sweethearts.
And I was like, there's no way. Like they started dating at 16. Now they're 20 or almost 30. Yeah.
And I ended up talking to the bride and I was like, how, how, how does that work? And she said, oh my God, we broke up like five times within that time period, you know, leading up to the marriage. But people like don't, people are not open about that. Here's like the thing. I think they're probably happy now because they took that time then, right?
you know, and not, it doesn't, everything is not on a straight trajectory. You know, we hit bumps in the road. We hit things that are not always so easy. We have moments where we're just not in sync and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I, you know, it's interesting because my daughter is still with her boyfriend from high school and they now have graduated college and they're living in different cities and
And, you know, they're trying to figure out how to navigate the situation right now. And I love him. I would love to see them together forever and whatever else. But in the back of my mind, I'm also like, if they don't have time apart and they've been together since high school, other than a very short time during their senior year, I don't know that, like, it's sustainable forever, too, you know? And so I don't tell her what to do. That's up to her. I'm not dictating anything. But it worries me, you know? Of course. Of course.
I think, I don't know, I think getting separated or taking a break or whatever is really frowned upon. And I think it's so great. And it's so funny because the couple that got married, they separated when they were studying abroad in different places.
Right. I mean, I think that's the time to do it. You know, I don't know that there's like a great time for it because it's like when you want to be – when it's a situation like that where you kind of want to be together but you know that it's not like perfectly sustainable that way, it's hard, you know? Whereas like when you've been married and you're not getting along and you want to be separated, it's a little easier. I just feel like every seven years there needs to be a conversation. Do we want to –
be in this still or not. Well, you know, they say there's that like, what is it? The seven year itch? Is that what they call it? No, I'm not good at math. You can count to seven. I do know. I do know how to count to seven. I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
But yeah, the seven-year itch. I think that's fair. I think there should be continuous reassessment, you know. I mean, Seth and I are always like now, not before, but in the second, we call it our second marriage, even though we didn't technically divorce and remarry. It is a second marriage to each other. And we're, you know, always checking in. Like, is this the path we really want to be in? Are we good with everything? You know, we haven't been in marriage counseling for a while, but we just reached out to our therapist the other day because we were kind of like,
Yeah.
If you don't address it, it snowballs and it just gets worse and worse and worse. Totally. And a lot of people won't talk about it because that's like a no-no. Right? Correct. To have issues in your marriage. No, we're supposed to be perfect. I know Lisa Barlow hates the idea of anyone saying,
separating for any reason. She gets very emotional, which is not a bad thing. Yeah. But sometimes separation's positive, you know, and everybody's different. And for Lisa, that might not be positive. I'm not saying it's a good thing for her to do. I don't know. It's not my marriage. I can't, you know, speak for anyone else. I can only speak for myself. But, you know, for us, meaning me and Seth, that was crucial. Yep.
Like, we would never, I mean, never have stayed together had we not separated. You guys seem happier. Oh, we're so much happier. On the show. Now you guys are doing a podcast, hence the bringing in the marriage counselor, right? Right. Exactly. Right? Yeah.
That podcast has caused a lot of fights already. I'm telling you, but the marriage counselor needs to be your first guest. Right. Well, that would be... That would be... I don't know. That would be amazing. That would be incredible. I'm going to ask. You should definitely ask. I'll ask. I don't know if I'll do it. He's so good, though. Our marriage counselor is like...
He is. He's, yes. We went through so many of them. You have to. So many of them, you know. And I'll just, I'll never forget one time Seth and I, we sit down.
he's like very upset about something and he's going on and on and on for the first 15 minutes or whatever. This is the first time we've met the therapist. Oh, okay. And he was just, you know, on fire and he was going on and on. Very heavy stuff. Okay. And he comes up for air and the therapist looks up and says, do we have a credit card on file? And Seth looks up and he goes, no.
Excuse me, but this is not the right fit. We're leaving. And he got up and walked out. That is, I thought the, is there a credit card on file was some kind of tactic or
Right? To, like, uncover something. I think they just wanted to make sure they were getting paid. I don't know. But he was... And Seth just said, fuck off. Yeah. As he should. No, it was very... It was someone who...
probably needs a little training on that because once one's like upset that's not the time yeah about the credit card yeah and I you know I don't have a background in that but I think even I would know better than to ask that question 15 minutes in right like at the very least and how does that make you feel right like that's the go-to exactly and how does that make you feel
No, we don't care how you feel. How are you paying? That's crazy. I had a therapist who started telling me what to talk about on my podcast and giving me some feedback of stuff she didn't like.
Okay, that's weird. That was a little bit crazy. Like, that's really weird. Because I understand if they want to listen or watch something, maybe to understand me a little bit better, what I do for work. But she was coming back with detailed notes. And I, yeah. That's a little too invested.
A lot to invest in. A lot. We need to find a balance between that and the, do we have a credit card on file? Right, exactly. Exactly. That's the, well, and that's who we ended up finding. He's wonderful. He's so good. I love that. How long were you guys separated? I mean, we were separated on and off for years, you know. I love it. Nobody knew. Our kids didn't even know. We were living in the same house for a good part of it, you know, in the same room, you know, for a good part of it.
And then later as the kids got to the point where they were out of the house, we did like a real separation in separate homes and everything else. But it went on for a long time. What are your thoughts on living together when you're a couple? Gwyneth Paltrow is married. They live in two separate homes. Yeah.
I, the only times I've lived with a boyfriend, hated it, hated it, wanted my space, could not deal. How do you feel about that? I think that's a very individual thing. I think that
That would be difficult for me to live entirely separately. Yeah. Like separate bathrooms I think are wonderful. Neat. But Seth travels a lot. Correct. He does. Less now than he did. We're together a lot more now. I mean we are together probably I don't know 80% maybe even a little bit more of the time. Used to be the opposite. We were probably together 20% of the time before. I'm
I like having Seth next to me when we go to sleep at night. Yeah. Could I live in a separate room and sleep in the same room? Yes, I could. You know what? That is the dream. Yeah. We fall asleep together in the same bed during the day. I have my own space. Yeah. That's the goal. Yeah. And everyone's different on that, you know? Like I know people who fully have separate bedrooms. I know people who...
Are in very tight quarters. You know, it's, I think whatever works for you is great, you know? Yeah. The men I've dated don't like it that much. But I'm like, I don't want to fully commit to us living together. Well, then that's not the right fit. Right? Bye. Yeah. Also, we're in New York. My apartment is...
Right. It's tight corners. It's tight corners for sure. Okay. So I'm going to ask you, Meredith, just rapid fire questions. Before though, I need to jump back to this half of New York thing, but not really. I do want to know what your thoughts are on body count. Body count? Yeah.
What do you mean? Like dead bodies? What do you, what does that mean? So body count is, you know what? I apologize. I should have came in with a better way to talk about it.
It's how many people you've slept with. People refer to it as their body count, which sounds like a video game. I've never heard this because I'm a little older. It sounds like a video game and not cute, really, but that's what it means. Oh, how do I feel about it? Mm-hmm. I think people should do whatever makes them happy. That's the one thing that – what anyone does in their sex life, in their bedroom, whatever –
As long as you're not hurting somebody else, I couldn't care less. You know, like that doesn't define anybody. That's like your own thing and good for you and do what you want. Try different things out in the bedroom. There's no kink shaming. No. Unless you're hurting someone. Exactly. I totally agree with that.
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What's your relationship like with Angie? Well, as you can see from last night, it is not super positive. Can I tell you something crazy? I'm pretty sure my ex-boyfriend used to hook up with her. No way.
Yes way. This is too funny. Which is kind of crazy because I'm 31. How old is Angie? I don't even know how old she is. I don't know her very well. That's the crazy part. Oh, oh. Like everyone's like, why is she invited? Because I barely knew her. No.
Like, I barely know you. I've been around you maybe half a dozen, a dozen times in a group setting. We've never done anything individually. I've never gone out to dinner with you or you and your husband. But you've heard stuff about her husband. Well, you kind of alluded to it. Yes. But you can't say what it is. I never repeated what I heard. Never. Okay. Okay, law degree. Okay, classy lady. I love it.
I shouldn't have alluded to it, but you know what? You poke the bear long enough and hard enough. I'm human. I mean, alluding to something is very different than saying something. Correct. Hence Lisa's rant. Correct. That was a lot of alluding. That was just bonkers crazy. It was a little out there. It was. We're all human. Forgive, don't forget. Right. Who do you think has the best style on the show?
Aside from you, of course. You knew I would say me. I knew you would. That's why I just, I didn't even let you answer that. I had to clarify with that. There is no question mark under the sun that Mary Cosby has the best closet on our show. Like, it's not even up for debate. Absolutely. The closet's taken over the house. Yes. Yes. I could only dream. Could only dream. It's insane. Yeah. I really like Lisa's style. Does she have a stylist? Yeah.
I believe so. I believe so. I think she's tagged her a few times. Do you? In Instagram. Some seasons, yes. Some seasons, no. But not for every, like, scene. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I just started working with someone very recently. The last two seasons, no. Season two, yes. Yes.
Um, so I kind of ebb and flow with it. I have to feel like they're really getting me. Yes. You know what I mean? It's very personal. Yeah. You want to wear things that you feel like resonate with who you are. And if they're not getting you, then it's not working. Completely. So I kind of, I've been a little controlling over that, but I need the help is the bottom line. It's a lot of clothing, you know, it's a lot of looks to put together and
It is so much work. Like, it really is so much work. Yeah. And I know that sounds crazy to say, but it genuinely is. No, it's a lot. I can just imagine you, the stylist comes, like, shows you five different outfits, and you're like...
Love it, but what about something like this and you just pull out your outfit and it has nothing to do with anything she picked for you? That has happened. That has happened. I mean, of course, because sometimes they're getting it, sometimes they're not. Which is good because I have been in situations like even shooting for a big magazine where I didn't want to speak up and then I'm like,
What in the potato sock fuckery did you wear? Well, see, that's what's interesting. Like if you're shooting for a magazine, you don't feel like you really have that much of a voice in the wardrobe because you feel like you're supposed to be doing what they do.
Right. You still have to be happy with it at the end of the day. It's your face going out into the public, you know? It's like getting my nails done. Like I just – I would rather go cry in my car. I hate – Than bring it up. I hate going to get a manicure. Right. Hate it. But do you speak up if they mess up? It depends on how bad it is.
It has to be pretty bad for me to bother with it. Because I can't, the reality is I don't have the patience to sit there for them to fix it. Yeah. Like it's a miracle if I make it through the manicure. Right. It's, our lives are difficult, Meredith. They just are. Okay, my last question. How was Mary allowed back on the show? First reunion, she falls asleep.
Second reunion. I forgot about that. That was excellent. That was, I mean, legendary. Second reunion just doesn't show. How was she allowed? And then there were, you know, some racial things that were said. And she got in a lot of hot water. She did. But they brought her back. Yeah. Well, I think in terms of Mary, I think that she –
Well, no show at reunion. Let's start there. My understanding was like that it was you're not coming back next season. It did not necessarily mean forever. So that's a wash there. The falling asleep, I think, was highly entertaining. So no one's mad about that. She is incredible talent. She really, truly is. You know, and the racial things, you know, Mary, I think, did not –
intend for those things to come across the way that they were said. And I think that there's a difference between comments made out of hatred and out of just not being aware of the meaning behind the things you're saying. I'm not saying either are right, but there is a very big difference between the two. And Mary is not filled with hate. That much I can promise you. She is not. Yeah.
Yeah. Has she apologized? She has. Yeah. She apologized on the spot as far as I know. Yes. Now I remember. Now I remember. Does Andy have favorites? That I don't know. We can call him and ask him. I'm sure he does. He's a human being. Right. Is where you guys sit on the couch, does that have anything to do with who he likes?
I don't know. I think so. I mean, I don't know this for a fact, but my interpretation is, is usually the two people on his sides are the ones who are kind of like in the most hot water. In the most beef. Yeah. You are just, if I were to ever join the Real Housewives franchise, I would get my law degree first.
I just feel like... I mean, I probably wouldn't if we're being totally real with each other, but you must... I mean, I've seen it in reunions. Kill it. Keep your composure. Do you think it has something to do with thought? I think that...
My ability to reason has a lot to do with it and to, you know, if I'm not too upset and heated to be able to very clearly state what I think and why. Yeah. Definitely does. Composure, I don't know if that has much to do with it. I mean, that's like, it's hard. Yeah. It's really, really hard. It takes a lot of restraint when you know that like,
someone's just looking to get her eyes out of you, which they do with me all the time because I don't lose it that often, you know? You don't engage. No. You disengage. I disengage. But sometimes I debate just like pretending to lose it to shut them off.
Just for fun. I'm like, I just start a little fit to quiet them down. That's a flex. I absolutely love that. Okay, Meredith, this has been incredible. But by the way, Meredith and I are one vodka water seltzer deep. We're about to multiply that by 10. And I think I understand that math. But Meredith, you showed up with...
I did. Which has never, ever, ever, ever happened in my five years of recording. I went rough with Meredith Mark's caviar and some potato chips. I absolutely love that. Because I can't transport full accoutrements for you. I'm sorry. Okay. But these work. I absolutely, I can't wait to try it. And I'm getting Meredith Mark's for every party I host. Yay.
What can't she do? Caviar, law, reality television, and being stunningly gorgeous. And a great mom. Oh, thank you. I'll take all of that. I'll take it all. Of course. So Meredith, where can everybody find you? So on Instagram at Meredith Marks. On Twitter, which I'm back on. I did disengage for a while, but I'm back on it. Meredith Marks Zero. Okay.
Oh, I'm on threads now too. There she is. It just doesn't stop these days. It doesn't. MeredithMarx.com, MeredithMarxCaviar.com, our podcast Hanging by a Thread with Seth and Meredith Marx. And you guys will hear me on it very soon if they'll have me. We will have you. We would love it. Let's do it next week. Let's do it. Done deal. Sleuths, I love you guys so much and I will talk to you next week. Bye.
