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It's Sophia Franklin. You are listening to Sophia with an F and the F is for phenomenal. This podcast is rated F.
I'm the elder. She should speak to me. I don't want to use the term bad blood, but there are some devastating things there. A song that went to number one in three countries on iTunes. The video itself was $27,000, but I've never seen one penny from the music. And I had a 360 deal with Mackenzie. So where is it?
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to Sophia with an F. I am joined by the biggest icon on television and in the world, Abby Lee Miller. Thank you, sweetheart. Oh, my goodness. What an honor. The dedication it took to get me here, Abby. I just landed from Italy, like, late last night, and I said to myself, there's no way in hell I'm missing Abby Lee Miller. Always.
Oh, well, thank you for arranging this and just jumping, you know, get up. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it now. You're like, babe, my dancers have had to dance under way more stressful, tired conditions. Come on. We learned those numbers in two hours. You can get your butt over here. Yes. So you live here in New York. I do. I live here in New York. There's so many things I want to talk to you about.
We don't have too much time, but we were just talking about how incredible you look. I brought it up. Abby didn't. Abby wasn't saying...
I look stunning, ladies and gentlemen, but you do. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Of course. Cancer-free since 2019. Yeah. I kind of went to hell. I bet. Ten rounds of chemo, you were saying. Ten rounds of chemo. For listeners out there, it was a very rare form of lymphoma called Burkitt lymphoma. It's found in Africa in little boys under the age of 10, and it is fatal.
Wow. And it lasts about eight weeks. So from start to death, eight weeks is all you have. Oh my God. And so I did 10 rounds and it was very invasive. It was 24 hour bags, like huge bags of chemotherapy dripping 24 hours a day, five days, then a spinal tap and a lumbar injection and all that jazz. And the worst part of the whole entire thing
was that they would discharge me from the hospital on the seventh day. They'd discharge me and stick me down in a lobby or somewhere on a gurney. I'm laying flat, so I can't really see everything or everybody. And they gave me one last...
dose of something. It's elastin, new statin, something like that. Anyway, they stick it in you and 24 hours later, it shoots you. It's like a needle comes out of it. And they discharge you because get this, if they give it to me up in my room with the chemo, it's just part of the chemotherapy. But if they discharge me and give it to me downstairs in the waiting room or wherever, it
It's a whole new $500 and some dollars for that shot. Stop it. No. So it's a money grab? It's a money grab. But what I hated was that then these Tweedledee and Tweedledum, let me refer to them like that, would have to come and get me and take me to the physical rehabilitation place. So they were just a van service, like a medical company that slides the gurney in and transfers you. But they couldn't find me because I was checked out of the room.
So they would go to the room and go, where is she? They go, oh, she's down on the chemo floor, blah, blah, blah. So now they're walking around, and I'm freaking out. And I had my phone, and now the phone's dead. And they'd stick me back in a corner somewhere because people knew who I was.
So you have people walking by taking pictures of me laying in a stretcher. And I'm like, hi. And they're like, oh, can I get a picture? And yeah. And then they couldn't find me. It was hours. One time it was like seven hours I laid there waiting. For Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Tweedledee and Tweedledum. And this is you in the lobby? Yes. This is in the lobby.
Where people do outpatient chemotherapy. Got it. They come in and they get it in their arm and they sit there for an hour and they leave. That kind of place. So it was nuts. And how many years were you dealing with this and going through this? One year, 10 months. That was it. I was discharged. I was discharged from my staycation, if you will. And I was there for one week and got the pain in the back of my neck.
And I thought I pulled something or stretched the wrong way or slept the wrong way at the beginning. And then when the pain was just excruciating, I said, there's something wrong. So I went to six doctors in 10 days and they said, go home and take it easy, honey. You'll be fine. What? Oh, they just let you go.
Yeah, go home and take it easy. You'll be fine. And cancer was choking my spinal cord. No MRI, no, nothing. Cat scan, nothing. So after six doctors, the seventh one admitted, well, the seventh one sent me to the hospital to get an MRI where I'm knocked out, you know, that kind of an MRI. And they knocked me out, but my arms and legs were still waving around like crazy. So they had to pull me out of the machine. So I never got the MRI. They pulled me out of the machine. They
admitted me to the hospital. And 12 hours later, I was paralyzed from the neck down, completely paralyzed. That is so alarming. That's why I always tell people get a second, third, fourth opinion from doctors. Well, I went six days in a row screaming. I went to a dentist because my jaw was numb. He did an ice cube test on every single tooth, nothing wrong. So I
I always tell women, take care of yourself. Take care of your bodies. Get your mammograms. Do what you're supposed to do. Because women take care of their husbands or their boyfriends. They take care of their children. They take care of their own parents. They don't take care of themselves. Maybe with their lashes and their nails, but not with the big stuff that really matters. So please, please, please, please take care of yourselves. People need you here. Yeah. That'll all be in my documentary that's coming out.
Oh, that's different than madhouse. I name doctors. I name names. I love that. I was about to ask you, okay, what hospital so we can avoid it? But if we watch your show, we'll know. Yes. Are you worried about a lawsuit or anything like that? Of course. But I have the paperwork. The doctor's signature's on it. It says, rest two weeks.
Yeah. You're a badass. I would be dead if I rested for two weeks and listened to him. Well, thank God. You're like perseverance. You're like, no, hell no. I know my body. You always have to trust yourself over a doctor. Absolutely. The documentary is about my indictment with the federal government, the process that I went through going to prison for eight and a half months. Everything that happened there, which there's some things that happened that no one's
ever known. I'm sure. Nobody. So scary. And then going to the halfway house, then after the halfway house, being there and what happened to me and how you have to write, draw a map and you know where you're going to go and all this BS. So that's all in the documentary. Wow. Look at you. I mean, I have not had cancer and I have had no medical issues. You
I have a podcast and a YouTube channel. Are you allowed to say that? Of course, 31. Right, so I was 52 before I ever...
spend a night in the hospital. I never spent, I might've sat in a chair with my mom and dad when they were dying and, you know, fell asleep, but I never, ever spent a night in the hospital. I never broke a bone. I never had kids. I never did any of that. So it was completely foreign to me. Yeah. I'm just saying that's so badass. Look at you. You went through all that stuff. You have a documentary. She's got a podcast. I have...
Madhouse, which was just a little thing. It was just a little shoot for the streaming thing, but it was my idea. It was my creation and not exactly the way it turned out, but
But it was my idea to work with kids that were 18 to 23, 24 that wanted to be professional working dancers. Because when you left my studio, you pretty much were a professional working dancer. And I've had so many kids. I've had kids in 24 Broadway shows. People don't know that. I've had so many success stories, not the kids that were on television, but other children that deserve success.
Yeah, they should have all that. So that's what the Madhouse was about and where these kids are going wrong, why they're not booking jobs when they go to an audition and they come out and they're like, I didn't get a call back. Why? Why didn't you? What's happening? You know, and sometimes you're just not right for the part. You could do everything right and still not get it. Yeah. However, these kids should be getting it. Yeah. So.
So that's extremely interesting because we, you know, and the world, they really only see the dancers that you taught on TV. Right. They don't really know or think about the people that were not. All the other kids. Yeah. I mean, how many other kids? I mean, how many kids have you taught? Oh, probably close to 30,000. Wow. Wow.
I would say. That's really, like, incredible. So let's talk about Dance Moms for a second. I was obsessed. Do we have to? No, no. Yes, go ahead. Me, every time someone brings up Call Her Daddy in my old show, I'm like, there are articles you can look up. Just Google it. But I do want to hear it from you directly. It was a little bit of a controversial show. Very controversial. A lot of it. A lot of it.
Do you think... That's why I don't have all those deals. Yeah. You know, that's why nobody sends me makeup every week, big boxes like the kids on the show, that I would actually wear it. They're 12 and they're getting makeup that a 40-year-old woman would wear, not a 12-year-old kid, you know? Yes. And then I never understood that also when you get all that free stuff because...
If I tell the world, look, there's this red lipstick and this is the best lipstick for competition. Every dancer needs this. Every dancer would go buy it. Every dancer would have it shipped immediately overnight shipping. Right. But a 12 year old wearing it.
Is everybody really running out and buying a $35 lipstick because some 12-year-old's wearing it to sit at home and do TikToks? I mean... They probably are saying it, but I think if I had it and said, this should be in your makeup kit, they would have it. A hundred percent. Do you think Dance Moms could be a show today? Well, it's trying to be a show today. Okay. They're rebooting it without me. Without you. Yes. But I'm doing...
Season nine. Season nine of the show. Of a show. Of a show. Okay. The world wants season nine. Okay. So I'm giving them season nine. I love it. So discreet. I think we're picking up what you're putting down. There's a clip in one of the episodes where you tell a girl, or refer to her as the girl with the bad haircut, one of the dancers, which...
I think is really funny and I don't really see how that's like an issue or controversial, but has there ever been a moment where you felt like I've gone too far? Everyone asks that question. Yes, of course. Yeah. Yes, of course. But at the end of the night, I had to go home and sleep. Yeah. Like a baby.
I was exhausted. So you're pushed into the corner often on a reality show like that. And, you know, my life, the way I was raised by my parents, they were older when they had me, 38. That's not old now, but back then that was very old. They just didn't know how long they'd be around, and they wanted me to be able to stand up for myself and to –
dream big and do what I felt I wanted. And so when I get pushed back into a corner, especially in my studio, when I'm in my building that my parents gave me their life savings to buy the land that I borrowed all that money at 21 years old to build this building, when I'm there and some woman comes in screaming the F word at me,
look out because I'm backed into that corner, but I am coming out with my dukes up and I am coming out verbally of course. But yeah. And that's when I sometimes feel like, Oh, I wish that wouldn't happen today.
But it is what it is that I have to go on. And I know in the long run that I am making incredible dancers. And that was my job always. I mean, if they did a show based on Olympic athletes and how they trained and what they did and, you know, these girls are, you know, dancing competitively at that same level. Right. And to be the best, there's...
I don't want to use the word sacrifices you make because no, that's not it. Because when you love it and you do it and you're good at something, then you don't make sacrifices. It's what your passion was. So you didn't go to the birthday party. Oh, well, buy me a gift and send it. You know, you don't get worked up about that stuff because you want it so bad. But
It's tough to be the best. It's hard to be the best. It's difficult to be the best. You just don't wake up and you're the best. It doesn't work that way. So if I'm driving that car to get those kids to where that destination leads, then yeah, I have to be tough.
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Do you think the responsibility lays on you or on the parents? Well, the responsibility of making working professional dancers and getting those kids to be the best, whether it be flexibility, balance, body alignment, all their technique, that lies on me. Yes. I think when you choose a dance studio for parents watching or young adults, when you choose a dance studio, then you find the right place.
And I'm not talking about two or three-year-old, but you should investigate your dance teacher like a pediatrician. Someone that's going to touch your body, your child's body for all those years. Because dance teachers don't have a license in the United States. I don't know if you knew that. I didn't. There's no governing body. Nothing. You could go downstairs and run a space and open a dance studio and know nothing. You could. Yeah.
That's outrageous. That's what's going on. Not in other countries, but here. Okay. So once you find that coach, that teacher, that person that you're passionate about, that you love, that you care about, then you stick your kid there and you let go. You have to step away and let them do their job or me do my job. As far as craziness or the TV show or producers, production, that lies on the parent. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, also, I think if they want their kid to perform at a certain level, it's their responsibility for putting them in whoever's hands and they're going to do what they need to do to get them there. Right. You know, within reason. Look at all the kids that leave their homes and go train with Bella Crowley for the Olympics. They leave their homes, they leave their schools, their friends, their neighborhood because they are there to train. And I'm sure he's not Mr. Personality and ha-ha-ha all the time. Ha-ha-ha.
I mean, is he based in the United States? Now he is. Now he is. Yeah. All those people defected. They're all here. Got it. That's why we're winning now. That's why we're winning. Are you kidding me? Do you think that the Americans would be winning in the gymnastics category if the people from Romania and Russia and everywhere weren't here now coaching? I was literally going to say that. I can't even imagine what goes on overseas. I can't even imagine. Well, they test the kids.
So it's very different. What does that mean? You would take your... Do you have children? I don't. Okay. So you would take your little one at maybe, I'm going to say six, seven years old. And you go and they're wearing their underwear, like little white underwear, cotton underwear, cotton undershirt. They're in their socks and they tendu to the side. Like they point their foot out to the side and somebody manipulates it and squeezes it and stretches it. And then they grab their leg and they up here to their head and...
they look at their hip alignment, their body alignment. They look at their posture, their spine, and you go this direction. If you get into the school, you get an education. You get a room and board. You get teachers and art, and you grow up, and you become a prima valerina, and then you defect to the U.S. Yeah. I've definitely heard of that. And I mean, imagine the pressure on those kids. That is, you have to, you know. But they're getting a roof over their head. They're getting an education. They're already...
celebrities. They're already above and beyond what their parents ever dreamed of for them. Right. So in the United States, parents buy all the equipment. You're going to play soccer. Then you don't want to do that. You want to quit. Now you're going to golf. Now we're going to buy a set of golf clubs. We're going to join the country club. Now you don't like that. You're going to quit. Now, you know, that's the U.S. Yeah. I know. I was a well-rounded child. I did everything. Ask me if I did something. I did it. What do you mean by that?
Just in terms of jobs? Brownies, Girl Scouts. Oh, okay. No jobs. Brownies, Girl Scouts, played the clarinet.
roller skating lessons, ice skating lessons, junior golf at the club, garden club, flower arranging in the garden club. And then later in high school, I was on the ski club and now my kids aren't even allowed to ski. I mean, it's in their contract at the dance studio. They can't ski, but I would go skiing, but I just like to go on the bus. We went three hours on the bus there and three hours on the bus back.
On Friday nights after football season was over. And so a lot of people made out with the boy on the bus. On the bus, right. That's why I joined the school. Okay. I was going to say. I sat in the lodge, like the ski lodge, by the fireplace with hot chocolate the whole time everyone was skiing. You were doing Opry ski. Yeah. So my dad, dad, if you're listening, sweetie, I never really used the ski equipment. Just saying.
Never, never used it. Right. I love how you were never the kid in detention. Oh, yes, I was. Oh, you were. Oh, my God. I was out in the hallway all the time. Are you kidding? But I got thrown out. I got adios, amigo. Oh.
My name was Adela in Spanish class. Adios, Adela, vamonos. And because in Spanish class you sat in this big U around the room, and I was on the very end by the door because I was cool and I wanted to look out the hall and see if it was coming and going. And my friend next to me dared me to roller skate to the pencil sharpener.
And I had these sandals on these shoes and you pulled this button out and the wheels popped down and he dared me and I did it. And you wheeled right over the pencil sharpener? I went zoom, zoom, zoom to the pencil sharpener and then I zoom, zoom, zoom back and the teacher was...
horrified and I should put me out in the hall. And then the principal came by and he's like, Miller, what are you doing here? What happened? So I whipped out my skates and I skated around the hallway and I showed him and he was like, oh my God, only you. He's like, do you want to go back to Spanish? Do you want me to take you in? Do you want to be there? Or do you just want to go to study hall? And I'm like, study hall the rest of the year. That was it done. And then you wheelied your way over to study hall.
I was fun. Yeah. I was fun. You still are fun. Are you joking? No, I am a fun person. People don't realize that on the show. But I'm fun. Farrell laughs here. Okay. So Dance Moms, Maddie Ziegler was your favorite. She's recently come out and talked about how the environment was toxic or abusive or whatever she said. And how do you feel about that? I was...
obviously hurt, but I also felt strange. It was an odd feeling of how a child doesn't remember. You know, we all remember things differently. Yeah. Some memory that you have that was awful for you as a teenager, somebody else was at that same party or that same place and it was wonderful for them. Yep. So it, that just depends. Uh, this, I mean,
I hugged that kid so close and so tight to my body while her mother and dad were screaming obscenities at each other, buying her her first pair of pointe shoes for her birthday party. If you look at the timeline, any time that we had a break, we were off for two weeks or three weeks.
She was with me flying somewhere to teach. I was teaching. She was demonstrating. So if it was so toxic, why, when we had a break, was she not in the class at the studio? Why was she not near me? Why was she not with me? Yeah. I mean, we were making money. So maybe the people would say, well, she just only went to get the money. I don't know. She was a child. It was fun. We had a great time. And I was hurt and I was confused. And I thought,
Was she brainwashed? Did she not remember? Did she go to some place where they erase your memory? How do you not remember all of that? And another thing that people don't know about that favorite situation, I've had many favorites throughout the years. One of them is in Hamilton on Broadway right now. He just left Funny Girl to go back into Hamilton. I have a dance supervisor of Wicked all over the world. I have lots of favorites. Maddie's mother went to the school, picked her up,
brought her to the dance studio where she learned her solo without any cameras there, wink, wink, where she learned part of the group dance without anybody else being there. Her mother took her back to school. She walked in the door. Ten minutes later, turned around, walked out, dismissed with her little sister. And Mackenzie never knew that Maddie wasn't there all day. And this went on for years. So the favorite thing is
Could have been any one of the kids whose mothers were willing to go get them out of school all day. Yeah. One couldn't miss a day of school. Another one's mother was the principal, so she couldn't leave. You know, the other ones were not too swift and they couldn't miss school like that. But Maddie was, she was smart. She was quick. And they had her leaving her classroom, I guess, fourth grade or whatever it was, to go to the kindergarten room and help with the little ones. Wait a minute. You're in public school in Pennsylvania, great education. Yeah.
And you're so far ahead of the work that you're being given that they're going to send you for a while, like a couple hours, down to help the kindergartners. And you're not learning and you're paying taxes to get an education. So the mother was like, well, if she's just helping the kindergartners, she doesn't need to be there.
So we needed her in the studio to learn all this before the kids showed up to do it for Pyramid. Got it. So it feels not great. No, it's extremely hurtful. And the kid that I trained, you know, she does all these interviews, big interview with Cosmo on the cover. When Maddie was little, she won Petite Miss Dance of Pennsylvania. And I wanted to hold her out for a year because the age is...
nine, 10 or eight to 10 was petite. And as soon as she turned eight, her birthday's in September. As soon as she turned eight, the mother wanted her in it, put her in it, put her in it. I'm like, no, let's wait until she's nine or 10. Cause you want her to win it to go to nationals. You want to be on the older side of the age. That's how, if anybody's into dance competitions or your kids dance or whatever, and you're watching this episode, you, when you're in 13 to 15, you're,
wait till you're 15 and then win the whole thing. If you go in at 13, you might win. But then when you get to nationals, are you going to win there? Because you're going to get kids that are 16 now that have turned the age, you know, their birthday as of January 1st. So they're already 16. And you're 13, there's no way. But why I'm telling you the story is interviews. So Maddie was first in talent.
She was first in the dance classes. You take tap, ballet, and acrobatic, and jazz. Take all four subjects, and they judge you while you're learning a combo from teachers. She won in all four classes, unheard of. Wow. That's at a national level? A national level. Interview, 23rd, doesn't win it. Her interview is where she failed miserably.
And that's what I was afraid of. A 16-year-old interviews differently than a 13-year-old. Right. So this was an 8 to 10. I believe it was 8, 10. And you go into a room, you sit in a chair, and five judges are firing questions at you. And she failed miserably. So...
There's variables. Had the interview been last and she already danced on stage, they would have loved her. They wouldn't have, it would have been a different conversation, but the interviews first. So when you walk in there, you better wow those judges and have this amazing personality. So that's another thing that kind of haunts me is that
I trained her for those interviews. So after that, the mother suddenly realized how important the interviews are and that you can't answer questions for your kids. You can't ask questions for your kids. You have to let them speak for themselves so they get it. And how many years did I work with Maddie? I'm not saying, um, or like, or how to sit in the chair, where to put her hands for the interview, all of that. And then,
Come full circle. She can interview anywhere with anybody all over the world. Like a professional. And the interviews fashion me. The person that taught her how to interview. Can you teach me how to interview? Certainly. Are you going to charge me? No. You're comped. Done deal. Do you want to reconcile or do you see yourself reconciling with Maddie at any point? Well, that's another etiquette thing. Okay. I'm the elder. She should speak to me.
If you're in a room, you go to a wedding here, there, whatever, and the child should go to the adult and say, hello, Miss Abby, how are you? It's great to see you. Whatever.
So I really don't see that. Not that I wouldn't speak to them. There's a lot that wasn't in there and I can't really separate Maddie from her sister and her mother. And there's some, I don't want to use the term bad blood, but there are some devastating things there. A song that went to number one in three countries on iTunes. It's a girl party. I produced it.
I bought the song. I did everything for that child. The Maxi was my creation. And the video itself was $27,000. And I got my 27,000 back immediately because the video went to number one too. But I've never seen one penny from the music. And I had a 360 deal with Mackenzie. So where is it?
So that kind of stuff. Melissa, you know, accusing me through the government when she was questioned, throwing things to me, passing the buck on to me. I'm in a classroom teaching. I'm in a huge classroom.
huge convention center with 1,700 dancers on the floor teaching them. I'm not out with the moms selling the merchandise, the T-shirts and the sweatshirts, handling any money. I don't touch a dime. So there's a lot of ugly darkness there. So it's hard to separate Maddie from that because she's so in with them. Maybe someday a light will go off and she'll realize, you know,
Maybe my mother wasn't the same. I think she is. And maybe Abby did a lot for me. Also, just being on reality television and what the producers are having you say or do or think, I'm sure that just creates kind of a crazy environment. It's a crazy environment. It was to be a six-week docuseries. Oh. That was it. And I was not on the show. Oh. I had nothing to do with it.
And all this stuff, you know, with those kids and naming them and dah, dah, dah, dah. It's on my podcast, Leave It On The Dance Floor. So everybody, I know you're listening to Sophia with an F.
Because this girl is brilliant and she knows what she's doing with the whole podcast business. But please, please, please come listen to Leave It On The Dance Floor and you're going to hear the inside scoops. And they absolutely will. By the way, subscribe if you're listening. I always am supposed to throw that in in the intro, but sometimes I forgot. Is it subscribe, like, turn on your post notifications and all that jazz? I should add all of those things. Jazz hands. Yes. Yes.
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Which of your students, I'm actually going to be talking to Kehlani next week. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And she has really just spoken so highly of you. Which of the kids that were on the show are you still close with or have stood by you? Well, JoJo, obviously. Season eight kids.
I see. Those kids. Eliana, Hannah was just on the show Madhouse with me. Brady is with Ballet Company already. You know, like those kids. Got it. So this question I have here. If I was one of your students and you were to critique me, what would you say? Right now? And be brutally honest. Right now? Well, you should have a black bra on because your bra strap's hanging out. I should have a black bra on as well.
You know what's really funny about that? I was scrambling looking for a black bra because I just got back from Italy. Everything was in my suitcase. But there's no excuses. Look, I'm already giving you excuses. This is your worst nightmare. You're not even my student, and you're already like, but Miss Abby, I didn't have time. You know what? I think the hair is covering it up. You're supposed to have that outfit on a hanger with the bra over the hook, the right underwear, and the jewelry.
over it, and that way you know you have that outfit. I mean, for New York kids and L.A. kids that are auditioning, you could get – this is now. Years ago, it was posted in Backstage Magazine. You read it. You knew when the audition was, where it was, and what time it was. Now it's different. And in L.A., it's very different. So you might have an audition at 8 a.m. somewhere. Well, no, it's L.A., 10, 10.30. Okay. And then –
You're leaving there and you get a call from your agent at two o'clock. You have to be here.
And at six o'clock, you have to be here. And the traffic and the chaos, it's a nightmare. I know my girls, whenever they went to Japan to go to Tokyo Disney, or if they had another job in Korea or Japan or whatever, they would always get that laser hair removal on their underarms. Because they said, you go to an audition at 10 in the morning, by six o'clock at night, you have to shave your armpits again. So they needed to be prepared all the time. And you have that outfit.
you know, your biker shorts and your bra top and your cute tennis shoes and your ponytail holder.
Together. It's there. It's ready. It's not in the wash. It's not at the dry cleaner. It's not wherever. It's always perfect. That is the best advice I've gotten on the show. No, I swear to God. Oh, I have a lot more, honey. I'm like, I just want to hire you for a day to just boot camp. Oh, there you go. Yes, my friend Barbie boot camp. Jojo Siwa, you guys are still close. Do you feel responsible for her career? No. No.
Not for hers. All the other ones? Yes. Every single one of them? Absolutely yes. Okay. I mean, would Nia be, would she have been in a Broadway show? Not if it wasn't for the show. So, but their training, I am totally responsible for, yes. Now, JoJo's mother was a dance teacher and she took in Nebraska, sitting at home in her family room, watched Dance Moms. And her mother was...
a beast. How do I get my kid on the show? We should be on that show. We should be there. So if Dance Moms had never happened, I believe JoJo would still be in show business professionally. She would be on some Disney show or some Nickelodeon show as a character and that would be it. Would she have her own tour and her take home pay was $29 million from the first leg of the tour? No.
A little 29 million. That's what I heard. Okay. Allegedly. Yes. We don't know. But she wouldn't be doing that if it wouldn't have been for Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition where she was on first. And then they brought her on to Dance Moms. Yeah. Did you predict JoJo would be as big as she is? No. I'll tell you why. I was putting a group together. It was a group. It was a team. JoJo's a soloist.
She is not a team dancer. She's not going to be in line with the right Radio City Rockettes and be a Rockette and be on the same foot and the perfect talent, the perfect arm and head and chin and all that. No, she's an individual. She's going to do her own thing. So did I predict that she would be a star? No, because I was looking at dancers that could work and be in Wicked or work and be in
and Juliet. And that's not her. I wasn't looking at the next Lady Gaga or the next star that JoJo would go through that avenue. Does that make sense to you? A hundred percent. Yes. Do I believe she's fabulous? Absolutely. She's driven. She's motivated. And when we were on those bus rides,
JoJo would go up and down the aisle. I remember vividly because I was like, JoJo, just shut up and sit down, please. And it was, where's the Wi-Fi? Who has the code? Who has the code? She's asking the adults like they're sleeping. Wake up. I need the Wi-Fi. The Wi-Fi is out. It's on the bus. I can't. And I was like, but she was filming, editing and uploading her own YouTube channel.
And instead of sitting with John or whoever from my studio and talking about regular work that I needed to do at my studio, I should have been sitting next to JoJo doing that YouTube channel, and I could have made a lot of money. Oh, I never thought about that, but yeah. So she was just a workhorse. She herself. And I know for a fact, because I'm friends with her manager, Karen, when they went into the meetings with Nickelodeon, and they went in and, you know, worked out all these –
It was JoJo. It was JoJo's mouth. It was JoJo saying, this is what I want, this is what we're going to do, and this is how it's going to work. Damn. Okay. You talk about the indictment and being incarcerated in the documentary that has yet to be released. Yes, yes.
And have you spoken about it at all publicly in any way, shape, or form? I've spoken about it a little bit here and there. Okay. But not some things that happened. Yeah. It sounds like it's going to be quite the film. Yes. And it's my, you know, when you do a true documentary, you have to get everyone's side of the story. So they would have to talk to the prison guards. They would have to talk to...
the prison doctor, that's what the holdup is in releasing it, is getting those people to talk. Yes. So it may end up being in my words. Like, this is my story. This is, I guess I can say the title. I don't know. It's life sentence. This chair is a life sentence. So life sentence may end up being in my words, my own words.
And not everybody else's opinion. Yeah.
Just because they can't get to those people. Yeah. I mean, that's... They refuse to speak. That's, you know, why a lot of news articles and documentaries and things never get made. And it's sad because people can't speak. And it's... They're not going to risk losing their jobs over speaking for me. Losing their jobs or they are going to have to go up against, you know, someone with more resources and, you know, the whole thing. Right.
What was it like being in prison? By the way, I've been arrested, so I've been there before. What happened? It was very, very different. I used a fake ID.
And I got belligerently drunk, but that was my second time. So they actually booked me into the jail for two or three days. You were, we went through booking, but that was in a jail. That's, jail is completely different. I've heard jail is worse.
What do you think? Well, yeah, but you weren't there for eight and a half months. I think anything's worse for eight and a half months. Three days, I could have done it. But you just jumped out. Like you just got out like Paris Hilton and all those people. Well. Just too many people. They, yeah, I think that was maybe part of it, but I think it was also they were trying to more so teach me a lesson. Utah. Oh, well, that's different. I thought it was in LA or New York. No, Utah. It's like, oh my God, that's the craziest thing, you know, you could do is be drinking. So you were on your age.
And you were drinking. I had a fake ID too. And I was in college at Pitt. My purse got stolen at the bar. And all I was worried about was the damn fake ID that was in the purse. I was like, oh my God. They're so hard to get. And I left and I didn't have it. And I was...
thought I need to run back in. I couldn't even get back in because the ID was in the purse. Yeah. So it was, it was a little nutso. So you got to just leave the purse behind. Cause what are you going to do at that point? Well, someone took it. Oh, someone just straight up took it. Yeah. It was good too. It was a good one. Mine was so good that they actually booked me in under forgery as well.
So I can't get global entry. I can't. Neither can I. You fill out that whole thing and you get to the last question where you have a question and you're like, when they started with that question? Yeah. Same thing. Same thing. Hello. Same thing. Hello. We are not, you know, we're not dangerous as society. No, you can vote though. I can vote. Okay.
But I cannot get global entry. I was going to say, which is more important as a joke, but I know the entire world would jump down my throat and freak out. So I'm not going to. What was prison like for you, though? Long. Did people recognize you? Yes. What do you mean, did they recognize me? Of course they recognized me. They watched it. Yeah. Okay. So you kind of had friends right from the get-go.
I had a few friends that are still my friends that are the most amazing, incredible women and intelligent and got screwed up over some real estate deal or a lot of women. I went to prison in California. So there were so, so many young girls, young girls that drove drugs across the border and
They were mules. They knew they were going to be arrested. They knew it. They did it anyway. It was a risk they felt they had to take. Whatever. Yeah. And oddly, younger than you even, and they had the butt implants. And they're like when you suck out the cheek. It's like buccal fat removal. Buckle. Buckle fat. They would have that done. They would have all these things. And I'm like, why? You're 25 years old. Why would you have that done? Why would you have that done?
Because the government can't take it away. I was like, what? They can take their cars. They can take their houses. They can take their children. They can take their property. They cannot take butt implants or boobs.
So that's what they would spend their money on. I mean, hair extensions are— No, you had to have them out. An eyelash. They literally took my eyelashes and yanked on them. I forgot about that, too. You just said that. They yanked on them when I was going in because they thought they were fake, and they weren't. The ones that were glued on? Yeah, but they weren't. They weren't. They were my eyelashes. They just did it to me, just yank on my eye. Oh. Okay, well, I had hair extensions sewn in, and they said, are those yours? And I said, yeah, I paid for them, so they're mine.
But then they took them out. Yeah. So prison. I lost 127 pounds in prison and I read 150 books. So that was good. Silver lining. The food is disgusting. It depends who cooks it, which girls were in that day. Okay. They had the best oatmeal.
In the morning. And they only had it every other day. And I would get up at 6 a.m. and put a coat on, which was freezing in the morning, and go to the cafeteria and get it. And then you could buy raisins in the commissary. So I had my box of raisins, like a big box of salmonella raisins. And then one of my friends, wink, wink, would get me brown sugar from Counterfeit.
So you weren't even allowed to have brown sugar? No. So they worked in the food warehouse and they got me brown sugar. And so then I, this is what prison teaches you. It teaches you to be sneaky. I would never have learned this stuff in public school or kindergarten or Girl Scouts. You did not learn this. So I would buy a big Ziploc bag like this big of Frosted Flakes, whatever, cheap imitation Frosted Flakes.
And I would have that in my locker, and then I'd stick brown sugar, the thing of brown sugar, down in it. And I'd take it to the cafeteria with me like I was going to eat my flakes. I'd have the oatmeal. I'd have the raisins in it. Then I'd put the brown sugar and sprinkle it in it. And then the milk. So good. The milk was usually outdated, though.
Expired. Expired. Yeah, we always had expired milk. So the oatmeal sounds good. I think in the real world, though... I could make that. No, you could 100% make it, but I don't know if I would be like, oh my God, that obsessed with oatmeal. Well, I wasn't, but it was freezing cold and it was yummy and it was good. It was one of the better items. Not that my mother ever made oatmeal. She opened up a pack of Quaker oats and stuck some water in it. There you go, kid. Yeah. But yes, so prison...
You know, you have eight and a half months to worry about yourself. I didn't have to worry about everyone else's child. I didn't have to dress everybody I knew. I didn't have to...
Pay all the bills. They were paid and someone was handling my books at the time. Of course. But I didn't have to worry about all that. Right. So, and I was allowed to keep my Instagram and all my social media while I was there. Yeah. I've seen like Joe Exotic and all these people and, oh my God, who's from Real Housewives of Salt Lake City? Jen Shaw. Yes. Yes.
I love her. I'm not supposed to say that, but I do. They text. They text and stuff. Or tweet. No, no. Someone's tweeting for them. Someone's doing that for them. Oh, okay. There's no way you can have a phone. No. They don't have a phone, but oh, when they have calls, they'll just tell someone to tweet. Yes. Yeah. Or they can email. Okay. I don't know why it took me this long to like understand that. I was like, how are they doing that? Yeah. A lot of people don't understand how things get to a cell phone.
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I'm going to ask you like rapid fire questions. I only have two. I'm not very good because I talk a lot. Go ahead. I'm just going to cut you off. Okay. She never cut off Avila Miller before, but we'll see. Go ahead. Are you dating anybody right now? No. Okay. Is there anyone? Who would you want to date? Well, I keep waiting. I always say when I hand the kids my phone and I say, here, just watch my phone. And if Tom Cruise calls, I'll take it. But I'm tall. I'm 5'9". So...
All those guys, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, you know, come on. George Clooney is—I'm going to show you a picture of Tom and I, and you're going to be really jealous, very jealous. He did not ask me out on a date after, but I think he was a little— You tried. I did say something that I think later on maybe it was like a little bit offensive because I said—
Oh my God, you look just as hot as you did 10, 15 years ago. Right. And then I, like, is that a rude thing to say? No. Because it's kind of like a dig, but then also. No, no, no. He knows how old he is. Okay. He does. Yeah. Yes. Okay. He didn't really smile at that one. But I'm going to show you the picture. He looks in love. Where was this? This was at the premiere for Mission Impossible. So how did you get yourself on the red carpet to the Mission Impossible premiere? Take a look.
Tell me. He invited me personally. I'm just kidding. Did you get a cake? No. Did you get the famous Tom Cruise cake? No. What is that? Well, if you don't know, then you didn't get it. It sounds like something sexual. No, it's a cake. Oh.
It's an actual cake. Okay. We'll try to make it. Okay. It's not as good as the one he sends. I'm going to look it up. Thanks, Tom. We're like fighting over Tom Cruise. Okay, Abby, you are – Have you seen All the Right Moves? No. That's the best movie ever. With him in it? Oh, my God, yes. All the Right Moves. He's a high school football player. That's my downfall. I like the high school football players. I still like them.
I like the coaches. Not one that used to be in high school, but one that is. Yes. Abby, thank you so, so much. Where can they find you besides everywhere? My Instagram is at therealabylee. At therealabylee. My YouTube channel is...
At the Royal Abbey Lee Miller. Someone took me. You know, it's kids out there taking every name. Someone took mine too. Yes. And I have the podcast, Leave It on the Dance Floor. Leave It on the Dance Floor. Yeah, and I'm on Facebook and Twitter and all that. And TikTok. And TikTok, of course. Yeah, I'm creating TikTok Pro in my mind. It's for all the dancers out there that shouldn't be doing this.
I make that the- That should be doing leg, jump, turn. Yes. And then Madhouse. Madhouse. Madhouse is a new show. It's a really quick shoot I just did for two weeks. And I lived in a big, beautiful home. And the dancers were 18 to 23, not making it, not being successful at auditions, not getting kept or a callback. So that's why I had them in the house so that I could whip them into shape. And I do.
I bet you do. The first day they all show up in black and I just let them have it. The idea, the premise of the show was no moms allowed and the kids are combated with me themselves. But that didn't really work because I told them something and they went, okay, all right. Yeah. Yes. Okay. That was it. They fought with each other, but not with me. Yeah. So I think if there's another season, we need a little more boisterous.
people. Yes. But it was really great. I personally was able to bring Richie Jackson onto the show, Lady Gaga's choreographer. You know, he was my sidekick on Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition. We're doing season nine together. Yes. So Richie's on season nine. And then I brought in Debbie Allen, came in because I was having literally a meltdown and I called her. It was almost midnight. I'm like, Debbie,
I'm throwing the towel in. These kids are just awful. They're dreadful. And one of them was a kid that I met at her studio through her. So when she found out she was doing this reality show, she was like, uh-oh, I better go check it out. Whoopsie. So she came in. And then a young man named Paul Becker, he was Kenny Ortega's assistant, and now he choreographs like The Kissing Booth, all those young adult movies he's responsible for. So I brought him in because he's always looking for talent, and I'm like,
I want these kids to see that they suck. Right. So that's the madhouse. And mad is music, acting, dance.
That's what MAD stands for. Okay, that's smart. Not me just stark raving mad all the time. A little bit of both. A little bit of both. I love how these rapid fire questions went down. Sorry. Nothing rapid about me. And you know what? I love how I claimed I would cut you off and I absolutely did not. I'm like, it's Abby Lee Miller. Yeah, you can't cut me off. You guys know where to find me, Sophia with an F, Franklin with a Y, and subscribe to this YouTube and I'll talk to you guys next week. Bye.
