Divorce Diaries ft. Katie Maloney 01:02:28

It's Sophia Franklin. You are listening to Sophia with an F and the F is for phenomenal. This podcast is rated F. He was my husband. Like he was my, like he still technically is my husband. Like we're not even divorced yet. And you're sitting here, you want to sit here and tell me like how much empathy do you lack?

in your little measly life that you want to come here and tell me what is and isn't my business when it comes to my, you know, deterioration of my past relationship in the past 10 years of my life. You want to sit here and tell me what is my business?

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Hi everybody, welcome to the show. I am super, super excited this week. Before we jump into the episode, subscribe please because I am way, way, way more entertaining on camera. I know it's hard to believe because of how entertaining I am just through your ear holes, but I really am incredible.

on screen. So go ahead, subscribe. And I'm very excited to introduce Katie Maloney, my guest this week. Hi, Katie. How are you? Oh, hi. Hi. Hey. So Katie, very good friend of mine, also star of Vanderpump Rules. And I

There has been so much fucking drama going on with that show. But Katie, you are in New York right now. Thank you so much for coming. You were just filming Watch What Happens Live, right?

- Yes. - How did it go? - It went good. I love doing Watch What Happens Live. It's such like a fun, you came. - Yeah, I came. - When me and Lala were on. Yeah, it's such a fun show. It goes by so fast though. - I was gripping the seat like this because doing something live seems terrifying. - It's, I mean, you just have to be so present and so on. You can't really stop and think and take a beat. You have to just have, just off the,

Yeah, right off right there. Yeah. So what if you accidentally say the F word?

It's never happened with me, but I don't know. I think there's just something that just goes into my brain when I go to do that show that just it's like an automatic filter or sensor that happens where I just shut off sweat words. That makes sense. It's like a job interview. Yeah. There are certain things you cannot say. I just go into like my settings and just like switch, switch it off. Oh my God. You're like a little computer. Yeah. A little iPhone. Yeah.

Oh my God. Congrats on the MTV award. Right? That's insane. So it's so wild. I am bummed, you know, obviously support the writer's strike and everything, but yeah, it was, you know, such a cool moment for us and it would have been great to,

you know, have this whole award show. We were supposed to present award as well. And to be able to accept an award, you know, on stage and everything would have been a very cool moment for us. And it's still really incredible that we were able

you know honored and and won that award but it was it felt like so 2020 doing virtual acceptance it's like it's like a covet acceptance yeah so okay so you guys got the award but because of the writer's strike they didn't do uh so yeah they they canceled um they didn't have live audience they didn't do live presentation they didn't have red carpet they just didn't have like a

show essentially they had pre-taped some stuff you know like little bits and stuff with drew barrymore like pre pre pre everything so they still had that stuff to use and she dropped out yeah she she dropped out yeah which is dope that's like i really commend her for that i mean i think you know it's it's important you know for people that especially that are in that

you know, to, to support. We are in non-scripted, but I still have a lot of friends that are writers and that, you know, that are actors and everything. And so I, I support the movement and I support fair wages for writers. And, you know, I, you know, I know Lala had made a public statement and everything. And I just, I had a feeling, I had a feeling it was going to go this way anyway. Yeah. Wait, what did Lala say? Just that she was going to just opt out from going to the, is that?

you know what this is authentic new york you guys know but okay yeah you're the sirens i know but so so when we film the show we hold for sirens and for helicopters so like it's like so when i'm talking and i hear sirens i automatically just stop talking for audio so you probably do that in like your just daily life like if you're on a date if you're on a date

an ambulance goes by you just go mute no but if i'm recording something i i you know it's just again it's like these weird like little like right like programs neuroses kind of things that i have that just will kick in automatically that is so interesting actually my team always gets mad at me because i will like be coughing i will make so many sounds and i won't care and i'm like it's authentic it's real it's genuine and they're like

People don't. It's a disaster. Everybody get off my back. I fucking, I understand. No sirens, no sounds. Okay. So the MTV award. So how did you find out? You get a text, a phone call? That we had won? Mm-hmm. So yeah, I was on my way to,

from Europe and they had told me that they were canceling the show. I was like, I have a feeling. They're like, but they're going to be doing virtual acceptance speech. And I was like, okay, cool. Okay, did you do a speech? Well, we just, so Lala, she recorded one on her own because she went to Palm Springs for the weekend and then me and Sheena and Ariana got together and did one together as well. Cute.

It was, yeah. That's a huge moment. It was, yeah. Because how long has the show been on air? For 10 seasons. For 10 years. Insane. Yeah. The Kardashians are on season what? 49. I don't know. Oh, 49. Like,

20 something literally 20 but they but they do multiple seasons in a year wait so how often do you film typically it's it's over the summer um and it's they need you guys slutty they need you guys showing showing showing the bod yeah it's anywhere from like 9 to 12 weeks okay yeah once a year mm-hmm

but then it's like but then that's like our for our principal photography which is like the main run of everything and then sometimes we do our like interviews you know um that mostly mostly we do post all of that because we film so much that

Once they start cutting episodes together, that's when we typically do that because we don't know what's going to make it in, obviously. So to start talking about everything that's happened would be a massive waste of time and money and resources. So that usually starts to happen afterwards. And then sometimes there's pickups afterwards.

if there's something that didn't make sense or something that wait what does that mean a pickup it's not necessarily like a reshoot of something but sometimes like when they're putting something together they're like right where there's a hole missing here that we need to like make sense or to support something that's happened like maybe there was like an event that's happening and it's not making full it's like something to support the story to move forward so as they're editing things together they're like

we really need something that we missed that would, we didn't think that we, or that we didn't get to get to. Yes. So like, yeah. Well, how often are you being filmed? Is it around the clock? 24 hours? No, we, I mean, we definitely have schedules because as much as it's like, you know, it is real for sure. Um, yeah, there's, there's also like, you know, there's in

entire crew of there's multiple crews so that have that need to have schedules and need to adhere to hours and cannot go over those hours so and there's also permits and there's way more planning that goes into it so we film it's usually Tuesday to Saturday and it really depends on what's happening like the organic story and dramas and everything that's happening so and that's and the schedule does change like sometimes like

I'll get a very, very loose schedule of things that they're kind of planning that they want to do. But let's say we go out for drinks one night and...

Let's say I get into a huge fight with Tom or something. Well, the next day, my schedule could look very different because now they need to follow what's happening there, the fallout from that. So it can all vary and change. Sometimes I film just once that day. Sometimes I'm filming all day long. I'll film something at home and then I'll go film something with Lala. We'll go have lunch and then maybe that night I'm filming something at TomTom. So that can be very... This is...

fascinating to me because I really thought like reality television it's either 24 hours you know love is blind and they are suing right the production company did you hear that yeah because they're like run ragged yeah sleep deprivation they couldn't get access to food water they were like just plummeted with alcohol like all of these things and

So I thought that was one version of reality TV. And then you have like the Kardashians where it's like, you know, the Kardashians, their schedule is not around whatever drama is happening. No, I think, well, I think the Kardashians are their own like league. They're there. They do their own version of everything. But I think when it's things like love is blind or bachelor or anything like that, where they're,

or they're staying in a location, they're staying in a house. It can be a very different kind of situation or schedule. So I don't know, that's wild though. They still shouldn't be like that. They shouldn't just be, just because they can change out crews,

that the talent needs to stay on is not right. - Not right, it's terrifying. And this actually just reminded me of something. I got a call from my agent and I wanna say the name of the show is so bad, so bad. The name of the show is insane, but he calls me and he says, "Hey." - Is this show that's out already? - No. - Okay, okay. - But the filming is gonna wrap up in like a week. And he calls me and he says, "Hey,

Would you be able to leave for Australia? I know what show it is. Were you asked to go on it? No, but Tom did it. Wait, Tom went on it? He's literally there right now. Stop. Katie, stop. I'm dying. Is it the... Yeah.

You imagine if you were there. Oh my God. Well, I heard like, he also told me to not say these names, but I'm not saying the name of the show. Like Scott Disick, Ronda Rousey,

Tom Schwartz. Yeah, Tom Schwartz. Did they bring his name up? No, they didn't bring his name up. But they brought up some big names. Tinashe. Can I say the name of the show? It's literally been announced. There's press about it. Okay, Stars on Mars. Yeah, William Shatner's hosting it.

Okay, when my agent called me and said, "There's a show called Stars on Mars." I literally almost like chucked my phone across the room. And then he starts listing these names. And then I'm like, "Oh, like, okay." And he told me the budget, like the range. And he was like, "You would have to leave for Australia in two days."

And I'm like, okay, so where are they at with filming? And he's like, I think they only have two and a half weeks left of filming. And they're like wrapping up. Like it's like urgent. And I was thinking to myself, he probably like speed dialed, you know, a hundred people at the agency, right? Like a hundred talent, right?

to ask them to go on the show and I'm like why are they hurrying and shipping people out to Australia when they have two and a half weeks left of filming what is happening on Mars slash Australia they're like having to like do this you know emergency situation that's a very good question

Can we ask Schwartz? I'm going to find out. Yeah. We're going to call him when we go to drinks after this. Well, he, I don't know. It's like 14 hours or something ahead, but like he'll be back tomorrow. Is this like a love is blind situation and people are literally like running like out of a haunted house? Yeah.

Like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like sprinting through the fields getting out of this. Mars is crazy, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. Like the thing is, I just literally know so such minimal. I just knew Tom was going crazy.

to Australia to do the show and then I saw the release and the photos and and William Shatner of it all and the premise and who and then the the release of like who was there and Lisa Rinna's on it wait Lisa Rinna yes I think people are on it and leave and there's new people that come in and leave like I don't know maybe new people come in yeah because of the the initial people there was like

Ariel Winter, Tom. Oh, Tom, the original Lance Armstrong, Ronda Rousey, a couple football players. Yeah. Marshawn Lynch. Yeah. Tallulah Willis. Forgetting some people, but yeah. Well, yeah. You know what really turned me off? It wasn't even the money. It wasn't even the, do I have to wear?

wear an astronaut suit and a helmet something like that is that what they wear they were wearing some kind of like space station-y kind of like some kind of like dude I'm not I've never been on TV and that's not gonna be my you know debut coming my debut on TV in a hazmat astronaut suit

holding the helmet like this you know you want some like too hot to handle shit thank you yeah yeah right so i can make a name for myself yeah because all i'm worth is my body at the end of the day you want to objectify yourself exactly thank you

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your cash back really adds up okay so let's rewind for a second so there's been

A lot of fucking drama. Right. So much. And I don't want to just like go in circles talking about it. I like did an episode with Lala, but I'm very interested to hear from your point of view because I've watched you and I,

The whole you, Tom Schwartz and Raquel, that whole dynamic is so shocking to me. I mean, the Raquel and Tom Sandoval dynamic is horrifying. Yeah. Horrifying. But even, you know, your dynamic with her and your ex-husband is insane. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, especially now looking back because during that time I was going through like a healing journey and trying to take care of myself with not a ton of support around me. I mean, I had like Lala, I had Christina and you know, there was people like,

one-on-one were loving and supporting of me, but like as a whole, as a group, no, not really. And then there's people that were really actively being pretty malicious and awful towards me. And this was, again, not just like a breakup of like some dude I dated. This was, this was an untangling and breakdown of a 12 year relationship and

and of a marriage of, you know, nearly six years. And there was just not a lot of compassion and not a lot of empathy shown towards me towards shorts. Yeah. Like everyone was like, Oh, he just seems like he really needs the support. You seem to be doing great. You seem to be doing fine. I'm like, just because I seem to be doing whatever you think I am, doesn't mean that I don't need that. It doesn't mean I don't have days or times where I would be great to like,

have that kind of support or just like have a hug or have you know like you don't see me I can be a little like tough around the edges and I put on that safe that the brave face because that's sort of like my defense defense mechanism yeah and that you know and that's and that's kind of what I was very much sort of like in that sort of that was part of like my like healing journey of like of

of doing the, the, the law of assumption, like already assuming that I was like living that life that I wanted to be in. So like, if I was like wanting to be happy, I was going to be already like living a happy life. It doesn't mean that I didn't have like really dark times or wasn't really upset and everything like that. So what people saw was just me always smiling, you know? So to have people like Raquel and, and,

Tom and even like Sheena just really go out of their way. Yeah. To disrespect my feelings when I made it very clear, abundantly clear that Tom and Raquel engaging in any kind of

activity making out whatever would be very hurtful to me and completely inappropriate and there's you know there's there is some debate about me and tom's agreement of boundaries and hooking up with other people within this group it being you know me placing rules and trying to control tom and that's never what it was like tom he was free to hook up with her if he wanted it's just tom also really wanted to have a friendship with me and coming out of a

and coming out of like going straight into being friends is a challenging thing to do and not always the best choice and not always the healthiest choice. So in order to do that, this was like the one thing I needed. I was like, if we're going to do this, hooking up with someone in this friend group,

It's going to just, it can't happen. And he was like, no, I don't even want to. So like, this doesn't even need to be a conversation. I'm like, great. Why does the public not see that as like the most obvious rule number one? Let's not fuck each other's friends. Let's not fuck each other we both mutually know. Well, because they're like, well, you were never friends with Raquel. Okay, fine. So fine, Raquel and I weren't friends, fair. We're in close quarters.

quarters all the time. We work together. We're on a television show. So then I have to like talk about this for six plus months constantly on repeat. Do you think that's fair to me? Like I'm not doing that to Tom. Everything I was doing was off his front porch. Out of his eyesight. This is the comparison. It reminds me of No Doubt.

The band. Yes. Gwen Stefani was dating. I don't remember his name, but he was the guitarist. And I think there was a similar situation, Stevie Nicks and the guitarist. But let's focus on No Doubt, right? Yep. No Doubt. Gwen Stefani...

was absolutely in love with the guitarist and this is when they were the band no doubt so they are traveling together performing together with each other in the fucking trailer like doing you know

imagine if Gwen Stefani then went and the drummer like that's the way I see it like that's not cool and then okay and then when they do press the guitarist has to talk about you know it's like every question he's asked and everyone says well this is Vanderpump rules like this everyone always stays I'm like right but when we were younger sure but I Tom and I I wanted us to try to like honor

what we had. And it was, again, it was, it was over a decade long relationship. Can we not cheapen it by hooking up with some chick that just came along and like who he barely knows who like we, we all like, as far as we're concerned, Tom and I didn't have the kind of friendship with her that everyone else said. We didn't really know her that well. When her and James broke up, you know, I felt for her and like I had reached out to her and like,

You know, I was trying to like have a friendship with her and I was actively working towards that and was very gracious towards her, even though she was pursuing my ex. You know, I still gave her so many opportunities. You did. Oh my God. I remember that scene and she says to your face, I tried to make out with Schwartz and you're like, okay, well that's not really cool. And forgave her. Like you gave her so much grace.

Yeah, and she still wants to say that I bullied her in Vegas because we like comments about the galaxy lights. It's like, if that is, if that's bullying, then we're all in trouble. Right. But yeah, I mean, it's just this summer was kind of a nightmare because of just everything that went down. And in Mexico, when Tom and I,

Had that dinner to, you know, just celebrate the closing of our house. It was also, that week was also what would have been our sixth wedding anniversary. Which is like, you know, we're trying not to celebrate it, but it was just like, it was just a strange feeling.

sort of ominous week because when you go through all those firsts after you get divorced, like holidays, all those things that you'd spent a decade celebrating with a person. And now it's like, you're just not, you don't know what to do with yourself. It's such a weird, weird thing to experience. And so that week in particular was a really difficult week for me. So for us to like have that weird dinner where he acted the way he acted and then

You know, the next day, essentially, kiss Raquel. Oh, my God. It was just such a slap in the face. And then for him to turn around and say, like, what? I didn't do anything wrong. I'm single. I can do what I want. I'm like, that's right. You can do whatever you want. Yeah. But don't you don't like you can't you can't turn around and say that's not disrespectful when we've talked about this. Like, I don't know what's like. It's just a piece missing with all these people. It's just like you can't just do whatever you want to do again. Like, of course, you can do whatever you want to do.

I can go into 7-Eleven over there and rob it. But if I don't think that there's not going to be consequences, if I get caught, I'm stupid. There's consequences. We can all do whatever we want to do, but there's going to be consequences if that behavior is reckless. I can't even compare my situation to yours at all. But this is very recent. I...

am going through a breakup. It's, we've been broken up for a month, maybe a little bit more. And I had to record with a girl that my ex used to fuck very recently. And she probably has no idea. Oh, so she doesn't, she's. She has no idea that I fucked him, right? Or that I was dating him, excuse me.

But even just having to like interview her during the podcast, it was like a little bit like, it wasn't the best feeling in the world. She did nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong. But just having to do that, that fresh after the breakup, your situation is this times a hundred. You're having to watch it go down. Now, given everything that's gone down,

I feel like massively vindicated. Yes. I was going to say. So I watch it and I'm just like... Right. Ew. Like you all like are gross. Yeah. I'm so much better off. Like I knew I was better off, but it's just like, it's just...

So gross. It truly is gross. It's gross. Schwartz specifically or just the whole crew? The crew and the dynamic of it all. It's just like you, like, you know, Tom, you know, his decision to make out with her just to what, stick it to the man thing.

I that's what he says stick it to the man I don't think anything he says he means like he's very lost no he is because he's just like still to this day he just like doesn't he he doesn't have a clue like he's on Mars he does he's on he's like literally truly in space like like literally metaphorically like he really is in space because like even now like he he texts on one point it's just like I like want to like hang out I miss you like no agenda and I'm just like

I don't like withholding friendship with you, but it's like the fact that you just don't understand boundaries and respect. It's just like, don't have any of it for me. Like it's, I'm not trying like, like to be that person here, but like in friendship period, if one of my just friends period, like platonic male, female were to disrespect me like that, I wouldn't be friends with them either. But like,

He, you know, even like in his friendship with Tom Sandoval, he lets him steamroll him. Yeah. Yeah. And treat him like that. So it's like, you just don't get it. No. And I just, I don't. When is he going to get it? I don't know. I don't know. I'm talking about him. Like I've met him. Like I know the whole thing. I don't know what it's going to take, but it's just like right now, like.

I don't really have time for that. Like, and I don't have to deal with that. Like I dealt with, I was dealing with it for so long that, you know, this is a lot of the reason why I'm divorced. So it's like, why am I going to continue to entertain this and continue to try to like navigate this? Okay. Tell me this because watching back and you see how Schwartz is behavior is, um,

And it's not changing. If anything, it's like getting worse. And it's confirming everything you've been saying for however many years the show has been going on. Doesn't it kind of help you really move on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, of course. Every now and then there's like moments of like, especially during the holidays, there's really a bit of struggle because...

it was the first Christmas and everything that we spent not together. And so there was all those times of being angry of just like, why couldn't he like this and that? But it doesn't take long for something to pop up, some kind of reminder and whatever. And obviously then watching the show because...

watching the show, like I never really have a hard time watching the show back because it's like, I know everything that's gone on. And yeah, sometimes I'll hear something that someone says, I'm like, Oh, that kind of sucks. But I truly had no idea how he was behaving or the things that he was saying behind my back. And it was very hurtful. Like he was being very disrespectful, like little things, even just like conversations with Raquel or with Sheena. And I'm just like,

That's just so unkind. So yeah, it is very reaffirming that you just, I'm not, I don't know. When Raquel would just be like, yeah, your ex-wife really just needs to get over it. And he'd be like, oh, oh. And I'm like, I would smack that person across the face.

Raquel said... Okay, so we're at Sur. It's like after we're doing like the sandwich tastings and everything. And she comes and sits down next to me. And she's like, yeah, she's like, I just want to let you know your sandwiches are bomb. And I was like... They're what? Bomb. Bomb? Yeah. Okay. I was like, thanks. And...

And you know, there was like another like rumor that her insurance had like made out again at another bar. And I was like, and I had text Tom about it. I was like, this is the kind of stuff I just don't need to be like sick to my stomach reading this shit all the time. Like this is, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. This is the kind of stuff I thought we wanted to avoid. That's just like, not like cool. Like every time I have to open up social media, it's like, I have to see this stuff.

This is what I'm talking about. And she just is like, I just think like you just are going to like rage text him all the time about this. Like, Oh my God. Like, is it any, like you divorced him? Like, is any of your business like what he does? And I'm like, are you for real? Like,

And I'm trying to explain to her and get it through her thick skull. Like that this wasn't like some high school dumb breakup that this was like, he was my husband. Like he was my, like he still technically is my husband. Like we're not even divorced yet. And you're sitting here, you want to sit here and tell me like how much empathy do you lack in your little measly life that you want to come here and tell me what is and isn't my business when it comes to my marriage?

you know, deterioration of, of my past relationship with the past 10 years of my life. You want to sit here and tell me what is in my business. And you know, she's fucking Tom Sand of all. And what? Yeah. Who's in a relationship with her. And then she wants to tell me that she doesn't appreciate me texting Tom about our dogs. And I just like lose it on her. Like she rolls her eyes at my mom. Oh,

Oh yeah. No, no. When it comes to the mom, when it comes to my mom, we do not go there. Yeah. My mom tells her to shut up. It's amazing. Yeah. No, good. But then, yeah. And then, but then, you know, Tom Sandoval's sticking up for her in this whole situation because of course, like I'm going at her and I'm calling her a cunt and all this stuff.

You call her the C word, a cunt. Yeah, but she deserves it. But Ariana is getting like very like upset in this situation because she feels caught in the middle because, you know, Raquel's like... She's friends with... Yeah, she's very close with Raquel, but she's close with me and she feels, you know, in the middle of it all.

But Sandoval's, of course, oblivious to that and is more concerned with how Raquel's doing in this situation. And it's just, of course. But then Raquel's also going up to Ariana and wants to talk about her relationship with Tom Sandoval and compare it to hers with James. She's like, I stayed with James probably longer than I should have. Do you think that maybe... Almost trying to...

like plant a seed in Ariana, like to maybe convince her that she should break up. Yeah, it was, it is so twisted. It's so dark and twisted. Save on Cox internet. When you add Cox mobile and get fiber powered internet at home and unbeatable 5g reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home or attending one live,

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I can't wrap my brain around, okay, so this girl is my very good friend and I'm fucking her boyfriend. I don't think anyone can wrap their head around this. No, there are definitely people who can. There are definitely people out there who can. Like a Raquel. Well, yeah, but I think those are, yeah. Actually, I think there's more people like that than we even want to acknowledge. They're very quiet. They are. Until they're fucking not. So...

I want to ask you this question because you and Tom, you guys still text. Of course, you guys have dogs together. You guys were together for 12 years. It's kind of like you guys grew up together. You've been through everything together. You were married. But breakup advice for people listening or just for anybody. Should you stay friends with your ex? Do you think it's a situation that can work? I think...

I hate the idea of someone being so important to you in such a big part of your life and family at one point and then just becoming strangers like that. It feels so sad and unnecessary. But I think there needs to be boundaries. There needs to be communication. You can't you can't just be you can't remain alone.

the same level in each other's lives you need to allow there to be you know that kind of distance and yeah not overstep and really allow room for each other to do anything like I was very supportive of Tom dating like I've had so many conversations with him about it because he was like it just feels like so I can't even imagine dating it just like oh I don't like it's not like you need to go out and like

marry someone tomorrow but you treat it as just like finding a new friend or just getting your feet wet a little bit like i had i've had so many conversations about this so like for anyone to say like i don't want him to be with anyone is not true i'm very very supportive of him getting out there and how do people not see that it's very clear to me when i watch because they're not saying it

What do you mean they're not saying it? Because you're not seeing those conversations. But I feel like it's just so obvious. Don't fuck the girl that I'm like, you know, 10 feet away from. They're just seeing me. Fuck a girl that I'm 200 feet away from. Yeah, I just feel like there's so many girls in Los Angeles, you know, are like that. But I mean, or just like give it a little time. But I think you can be friends with your ex. I just think it takes a little time and it does take amount of respect and...

You do have to nurture that relationship as well and sort of navigate that space between one another. Right. But it takes time, I think. I totally agree with that. So Raquel is having like random makeouts with Schwartz or one or we don't know how many while she's having sex with Sandoval. Yeah. Yeah.

Does Sandoval, and I don't know if you even know this, does that upset him? Does that irk him? I have a theory, and this is just my own theory. It's not confirmed or... Just because I've literally sat and thought about this for so long because I'm just like, how...

How did this all work out? Because I really don't think the three of them were in cahoots. I've talked to Tom about it. So the only thing I can come to is that, you know, Schwartz was just kind of like floating along and, you know, Raquel and Sandoval were doing their thing more impulsive than anything else really. And, you know, Raquel's like, well, I'm single so I can make out with whoever.

you Sandoval are with your girlfriend. Do you know she's getting a little bit jealous maybe? And so when the idea of Schwartz comes along to make out with, she's like, ooh, there's an idea. - Oh, that makes sense to me. - So she decides to make out with Schwartz and like how, what better way to make the man you wanna be with jealous than to make out with his best friend simply because you can't, you know, like he's single, you're single.

Yeah, so she makes out with him at the wedding. And I think that's the one person that would probably make Sandoval jealous. So at that point that Sandoval does maybe tell Tom that like him and Raquel like hooked up or there's something going on. So that will make Schwartz back off.

So Raquel can't pursue him. He's not going to pursue Raquel. That clicked in my brain. That theory makes sense. Yeah. So, you know, then Schwartz is like not necessarily in cahoots, but he's at least going to like... And you've asked Schwartz, like, what do you know? Yeah. And he's, he is very like, all I know is like, you know, he's, he...

He maintains that he found out in March when we all found out. He's like, I found out like a month ago that something was going on. You don't know if you believe him. I just think there's a little bit more than he has let on. Yeah. And I think he wants to try to remain like the good guy. Keep his hands clean. But him and Stainable have been like,

covering for each other's bad behavior for years. So it's like, dude, it's not, this is not, it's not that far fetched that you've known about this. It's just, this makes it dirtier because it's Raquel and it's Ariana and they're friends. And it's just, it's way too close. It's not like, this isn't some like boys trip he went on and some bottle service girl that he hooked up with that you can like, just like tuck this one away. Like this one, this is, this is a time that you probably should,

should not have remained quiet on. Yeah. But I feel like he remains quiet on. Well, yeah. I mean, this is me trying to give him a little bit more credit or benefit of the doubt than he deserves. But, you know. Yeah. This is also why I stayed with him for so long, because I just held him in a higher regard for a long time. When I posted that we were going to be recording, I got...

I don't even know, hundreds, thousands of people writing in with questions for you. And one of them was, why did it take Katie so long to leave Tom?

She was in love? Yeah. No, I mean, for one thing, yes. Like, this was somebody I was really, really in love with. And he's a good guy. Yeah, no, the thing is, like, I... We had a... There was a friendship there. There was, you know, there was a real relationship there. Like, at the end of the day, like, it wasn't, like, off all the time. I had so much fun with him. We went on adventures together. Like, there was all of that. And, like, you know, it was also...

I was blind to a lot of things and a lot of that was I didn't have high self-esteem, my confidence was lacking. I just wanted to turn a blind eye to a lot of things. It wasn't until I started working on my own confidence and building myself back up that I kind of just woke up inside my life and was like, what is this?

And it became just so apparent to me to the point I couldn't ignore it and been like, you don't want this. Like you, you know, you deserve more. Like, you know, that like longterm, like in he's, he's not going to, he hasn't chose you. He hasn't come to the table and the way that you want him to the way you've asked him to. Yeah. You've done this. Yep. You've had the conversation. Like it just, everything was like coming into focus in such a really profound way that it

hadn't before. Yeah. It had, but like, I would just kind of brush it off and think like, okay, well maybe, I don't know, maybe once this chapter or once this next year. So I don't know. I would just, it was just easy for me to justify things away so, so quickly. But you know, it does become such a huge,

thing and a dilemma when you know the person that you were in love with like you couldn't ignore it any longer yeah and then I'm like what do I do because like I love this person and this is supposed to be like my future my forever and like

I was just supposed to walk away from all this. Like it's really difficult thing to do. But at the end of the day, it's like, do I choose this, my future and this person and everything that we've built in there, you know, or do I walk away from it and choose myself and take the risk and take the risk. But you know what? Be potentially like really abundantly happy in the way that I know I deserve to be. Even if that means being alone.

Everybody that deserves a fucking, that's exactly like my breakup. I was like, is this what I want forever? No, I want to put myself first. And you know, because it kills you more when the person that you choose every day and that you put so much time and investment into, um,

doesn't choose you like it was it broke it was it broke me down and i mean self-esteem issues i struggle with that right everybody does but when your partner never chooses you that just like amplifies it yeah like i was a broken woman yeah just like that's that's the only way i can explain it it sounds like such a thing but like that's that's the only way to describe it like again like when

That person time and time again, like doesn't that makes you feel worthless. And you feel you start to look at yourself as being just a worthless person. And what makes it so confusing and I'm assuming and correct me if I'm wrong, the reason you stayed as long as you did is because you

He wasn't doing that intentionally. He has a good heart and thought he was doing the right thing. So then you kind of justify it like, well, he's like a good guy. And like there was no malintent behind it. So it's like.

all this confusion yeah cause he he loved me yeah he just didn't know how to be he didn't know how to love you correctly yeah exactly and I don't know if he will know how to love someone correctly maybe he will maybe he will but he's got a lot of figuring out to do

He is a very good guy. Oh, I can tell. He has a good heart. You can tell. The things that he does for his family and for people, it is there. I can't say that he's not. But when it comes to being a partner and a husband, it takes a different kind of mindset and a set of priorities that just wasn't there. I need it. I need it.

I needed somebody to support me in ways that I just wasn't being supported. A hundred percent. And you're in your thirties and that makes it more scary for certain people. I'm about to turn 31. I don't think I listen. I'm not scared at all. This is a shit. I love, wait, me too. I'm not scared at all. I feel the most confident, excited. I've,

ever felt to be single this if there was ever a time it'd be it'd be now like i don't i know myself more than i ever have i feel yeah i feel more confident now i feel more settled i don't i don't give a shit about things that i used to right that don't matter i'm literally thinking about us going to dinner and drinks tonight and i'm getting chills because we will

be going home with five boyfriends. Don't you feel that energy right now? - Every time I leave the house, literally. - I love that too. Being single in your 30s is the best shit in the world.

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The last thing I want to talk about, because I find this fascinating, I think it's very controversial, but I think it's something we should talk about. So when this whole thing came out about Raquel, Raquel,

fucking her best friend's man, she went to a mental health facility.

- Did she? - Okay, so you said something about this. What did you say? - Well, 'cause she was asking for, you know, sympathies essentially. Like I felt like that was like, that was basically an ask for like back off on the hate, this hate train of it all. And I was just like, listen, when you are so morally bankrupt that you cause this kind of chaos, you better be equipped to deal with backlash. And if you're not, then get the help you need for sure. But like,

Don't ask for sympathies in the process of it all. So that is such a like bold statement. I remember Lala saying something similar and it's like, I've seen this trend where people get canceled, which I do not believe in cancel culture. Hi, I've been fucking canceled big time, but I've seen people doing something very fucked up

And then they say there's mental health issues. Leave me alone. I don't like that. I don't either. I call bullshit on it. If you are suffering, always get help you need, but do not scapegoat it and do not like don't. That's not the route.

- No. - To take, honestly. - I totally agree. I understand if you did something and people are bullying you, I mean, hello, I had thousands of people telling me to off myself every single day for like two months, right? - Yeah. I understand that it cannot be easy dealing with the world, like just projecting hate onto you. I understand that's gotta be scary and intimidating and

- It sucks. - Yes. - I get it, but when you've brought it on yourself because of your own actions, turn your phone off, like do what you have to do to not see it. There's literally ways you can avoid that just by like literally like throw your phone away. - Have someone take your phone. But also it wasn't a one-time offense. That's the other thing that you look for is like, oh, if it was just one thing, you know, a one-time fuck up,

It's also similar to the excuse, and I've dated guys like this. I was so fucked up. I took fucking Molly and I, you know, had 10 vodka Red Bulls. Well, someone else is like, well, haven't you ever made a mistake before? I'm like, a mistake? You're calling this a mistake? Yeah, there's mistakes and then there's sleeping with your best friend's boyfriend. There was...

There was catching flights. There was active... There was code names. There was so much... Oh, they had code names? Yeah. This wasn't a mistake. This was not just an oopsie-daisy. This was...

full on deception and there was a lot of effort yeah to keep this and and and so it's like so no i there's there's not it was calculated yeah there's exactly so like so i'm gonna keep my sympathies for someone else that deserves it so so yeah if you need if you need help to deal with this because it is

then by all means, but like keep it to yourself. Yeah. Do what you gotta do, but like do it over there. We don't need to know about it. I don't want this to sound offensive, but there's been a lot of awful things Raquel's done. And the one thing that I can't like get out of my head right now. The pants. Did you say the pants? Oh yeah. Oh.

What are the pants? Oh, that she was wearing in the last episode? I was going to say that she rolled her eyes at your mom. Yep. I can't. She was so disrespectful. That bothers me more than anything that I've heard. She's made all kinds of comments. Or not all kinds, but she's made comments about my mom. She's like, oh my God. Yeah. I went there and like Katie and her mom were like, tell me. She goes, now I see where she gets it from. Yeah. I got it from my mom.

We'll both light you on fire. I feel like your mom on television just is a sweetheart. What has she done that's aggressive? Nothing. She is so nice. Like, that's what I mean. It's like, what is your, what's your damage? Raquel needs to go to Mars. Raquel needs to go on Stars on Mars. Sandoval. She needs to go to actual Mars.

Okay. Okay. Let's get into these questions because there are 50 million and I'm going to pick out the best ones and we're just going to do rapid fire. Okay. Has this brought the rest of the group closer together? I would say, yeah. I think so. What?

I was not expecting that answer. Really? No. It's brought you guys closer? Mm-hmm. Really? The rest of the group, like, minus Schwartz, Sandoval, and Raquel. Oh, okay. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Me and Sheena have seen each other more than we have since last summer. That was another question, is where do you stand with Sheena? So, Sheena's definitely apologized, and, um...

you know, watching the season back, she said that she's seen the hurt that I've gone through and everything. And I, and I definitely appreciate that, but you know, I'm, I'm someone that like, after all that, I'm like, okay, well it was a lot for me. Like, and I of course would like to get to a better place, but like, it's going to take some time and I like want to see like actionable, like

things behind items that behind the apology otherwise you know like apologies always need like actions behind that you can't just otherwise it's just like words you know so actions speak louder than words it's cliche but it's but we're in a much better place okay i like sheena i met her for like five minutes one time she's very sweet

Okay. This one. Do we think Sandoval is paying people to come to his lame ass cover band shows post scandal? I don't think he's paying them, but I think he's like definitely giving away tickets for free. Okay. So. Okay. Some of these I have not seen. So I'm like dying.

How and where did Ariana confront Tom? What happened was Sandoval had a show at Tom Tom, his band was playing and he was like doing something on the floor, like whatever. And his phone fell out of his pocket. And Ariana, like someone grabbed his phone and handed it to Ariana. So like, here's his phone. And Ariana just like, you know, women's intuition. So something like the siren went off in her head. She went to the bathroom and,

No way. And she opened up his phone and went to his photo or something. I don't know why she went to the photos or went to something, but she saw a video. And it was an inappropriate video. Of both of them or just her? Of the both. Stop. It wasn't even in like the hidden album? Do we know that? No, because it was from, so she was doing Watch What Happens Live.

the night before or that night actually with Sheena. And so it was the night before they were like on FaceTime or something. - So they, both of them had no shame, like zero fucks about anyone's feelings. - They were getting sloppy, yeah. - Okay.

you know what I want to do? The next guy I date, I want to put him in a room with Raquel. And that's how I'm going to test every single guy I date from now on. I feel like that's like the best way to do it. You throw a party and you somehow like seclude them in a room together and

and just see what happens and both liquor and like liquor them both up. And then you'll know, like, is this a guy I want to marry or not? That is a really. Raquel's got her own show, right? And like everyone can bring their guy and her own like cheaters show. Yeah. Like do they pass the Raquel? How old is she, by the way? She's 28. Yeah, I think she just turned 28. That is alarming to me. I like, okay. I thought she was like 18. Yeah.

Oh, did you and Schwartz hook up after the divorce? No. Okay. Definitely not. Is Katie still seeing Satchel? No. Wait, what is Satchel? Satchel.

is that so was it a guy who dated yeah okay i'm like what i thought it was like a you know benefit no like bad no so satchel is a guy that was seeing last summer okay you're not anymore no no well we will be finding people tonight

Oh, did Schwartz cheat on you while you guys were married? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We just move on. Moving on. This one is the last one and I have no idea what it means. So decode it for me. Was Ken coming in, dropping the bombshell news real or staged?

It was real. I mean, Ken is Lisa's husband. So yes, yes, yes. Okay. I know Lisa's husband. Lisa had told him. So I mean like, yeah, whether Lisa like,

like told him to come and do that or not but like stage is like like maybe Lisa like encouraged him to do but like or Ken like wanted to do that I don't know like Ken like gets he gets to have fun with us as well but I mean it was so bizarre like we're in the kitchen making sandwiches and he just like strolls in he's like I can't believe but Santa will have her calendar just choosy and she spent the night and then he just strolled off I was like we excuse me what the fuck

How old is Ken? I don't know. He's, I'm sorry. He's heading into the nineties. Like 90 something. No, he's 80 something. No, I don't think. No, there's no way. I'm looking it up right now. 77. Yeah. That seems. Okay. So I wasn't that far off.

I mean, okay. I said heading into being 90 years old. Oh, I think I meant with that. I was like, oh, that was. So he just walks in the kitchen, drops the bombshell. Just drops. And I was just like, how do you know that? And Lisa's like, I told him. And I was like, well, how do you know?

how do you guys know these things yeah I don't even know these things I was just with them yesterday oh my God and then Lisa explains that like Raquel showed up late to sir and Raquel just was like yeah I was saying to Santa Claus last night I'm like they're just being so Cavalier about this stuff it's crazy

But at that time, like, no, but I thought like maybe because they were just being so cavalier about it that I'm like, okay, well, they're just being so open about it. Maybe not, but it still just doesn't feel, it just like makes me feel kind of gross and I wouldn't be comfortable or down with that. With what? Like Tom Sandoval and Raquel's friendship was just,

Absolutely not. It was making me like. There are boundaries. It was like, I don't know. It's like kind of twisting my tits a little bit. I don't like it. Twisting my tits. I used to be the cool girl that was like.

Oh my God. Like, yes, me and my boyfriend and my best friend all sleep in the same bed together. I mean... Yeah, okay, fine. If you... When you're there, but how about when you leave town and your friend... Okay, yes. Exactly. But if you leave town and then they do that and you're like, yeah, but we do that all the time together. It's like, yeah, but now you're not there. No, exactly. But now you're not in the bed with them. Any, like...

You guys getting together at any point, I need to be there. Right? Unless it's in an appropriate setting. Let me put it this way. So Stassi, who's like my best friend, is also very close, almost besties with Tom Schwartz. They could go grab drinks together. Of course. No problem, whatever. We could all hang out. Stassi had spent the night at our house. Sure, sure, sure. Were you there, though? Yeah. But would they do that?

With me out of town? No. No. It just wouldn't be a question. Stassi would not be hitting up Schwartz to hang out with, oh, I'm out of town. That would just be, it just wouldn't even be an option. Exactly. Just because it's just like. It's fucking weird. Because Stassi would just be like, why? That would just be weird. Stassi would be like, I think I have other people I can hang out with at this point. Yeah, like I'm not, I'm not going to hit up Tom when Katie's out of town. Like I just, the optics are weird. It would just be like, I don't know. It just doesn't need to happen like that. Yeah. Yeah.

It's going to be very interesting next season because you guys are having a next season, which you guys are like looking for people, right? I don't know. Lala brought it up. Lala says more stuff than I do. Okay. Well, by the way, guys, breaking news. I'm going to be on it. Just kidding. I'm going on fucking stars on Mars. I'm going to talk to Schwartz. I'm very interested to see...

how Raquel and Sandoval's relationship turns out. Because I don't think it's going to last very long. And on that note, I love both of you. I wish you the best.

And Katie, I love you so much. I love you. Thanks for having me on. Yes. And let's go eat something. And where can everybody find you? Find me just on like Instagram because I'm too. You don't do the TikTok, you know. Well, I'm a spectator on TikTok, but it's just, it's like way too much to keep up with. But you can find me at musickillskate. Musickillskate. On Instagram. My Park City, Utah bitch. Yes. Okay, sleuths. I'll talk to you next week. Bye.