Trans-parency ft. Francesca Farago and Jesse Sulli 01:04:08

It's Sophia Franklin. You are listening to Sophia with an F and the F is for phenomenal. This podcast is rated F. And it's funny because like pro lifers have used that against me because they obviously know I'm a very liberal person and they're like, yeah, but like you have Arlo, like, aren't you so glad? I'm like, no, I'm like glad I had the choice. Like I had that choice for myself to make that decision regardless of how I was raised.

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Hi everybody, welcome to Sophia with an F. We are recording from WTF Media Studios in Los Angeles. It's the dopest studio ever. I am joined by these very beautiful people, but before I introduce them, I'm gonna tell you guys to subscribe. Period, done.

Francesca Farago, Jesse Sullivan, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. Also, I would like to give a shout out to Romy, who is also here. Romy the Pom. Pomeranian and professional podcaster. We might hear from him in a little. We don't know.

You guys are actually the first couple I've ever had on the show. Really? Right? I'm pretty sure. The only couple I've ever had. So I'm very excited to ask about that dynamic. Before we kick things off, I want to cover everybody's pronouns.

He, him. She, her. She, her. What about Romy? He, him. He's pretty fluid, honestly. He's pretty fluid with like his sexual preferences are very fluid. Yeah, like people call him a girl all the time and we don't correct them. He's all the above. I love it. Fluid, fluid, fluid. I fucking love it. Okay, so I want to start with you, Francesca, because we were supposed to record, I'm pretty sure, two years ago. Yeah, I feel like when I was friends with

Closer with Violet, living with Violet. Yes. So what really put you on the map, though, too hot to handle? What were you doing before that show? Before that show, I was kind of, I don't know. I feel like I was a little bit...

I was a little bit of a party girl. Just being hot. I was traveling around the world, kind of being like a little Instagram thotty, like taking bikini photos. My full-time job at the time was Instagram. So after I graduated university, I was like, well, I could go do more school or I could post pictures and make money. So I decided to hop on the bandwagon really early in my early 20s. So yeah, I was traveling around, taking pics. And then I got reached out to for Too Hot to Handle. So then I switched to...

Reality TV. Got it. Okay. Was Dan Bilzerian ever involved? I was friends with him when I was younger. It was mainly my friends that he was more interested in. We had more of a friendship, but he would let me tag along. So I tagged along, I think, for probably about a year. He would invite me places, and I would just bring friends and go, and it was sick at the time. I don't know what he's up to now. I haven't talked to him in years and years and years and years and years. That was like an early 20s thing. Yeah. I feel like after you pass 21, he's not going to like you anyway, so.

- True. - True. - This is not my world, so I have no comment here. - This is before I was wholesome. - Yeah. You're really wholesome now. - Yeah. Do you get like a little bit like, I don't like to hear about like past relationships or Francesca's? - Yeah, I think both. We don't really discuss stuff like that. Obviously like in the world we're in and her life, it comes up all the time. Like social media, people ask about it, people comment it.

What do I really need to know, you know? Yeah, we talk about like relationships and like meaningful relationships we've had in the past. Important stuff. Yeah, but like flings like Dan and stuff like that, we don't really bother discussing because there's no point. I always say no, we touch base on what I need to know. Those weren't my high points in life anyways. Okay, moving forward. Okay, so too hot to handle. So you already had like a little bit of a following before you went on the show. Yeah, mm-hmm.

She's like a genius with Instagram. Not really with Instagram. Because Instagram, I just post like aesthetic photos. She's just so good at it. You are very good at it.

I don't know. I feel like a lot of influencers make their whole goal to like get the photo. Like I'll have content days, but if it's not a content day, I'm not going out of my way to get a picture. Got it. Like I'll get like a specific image in my head that I want to recreate. But if I know it can't happen, I don't bother anyone because I just know it's going to take like hours to try and take a photo. So you do content days. Yeah. Like how many days of the week are content days?

- Like maybe once a month, twice a month. - Oh, and how it's probably so much more fun that you both do it together. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. He makes my pictures so good. We just posted one and if I was alone, I was getting ready to do it alone and I'm like, wait, you're coming in this? And if he wasn't in it, it would have done so shitty, but it did so good 'cause he was in it. I'm like-- - I'm just a glorified prop at this point. - Yeah, I was about to say you're a prop. - He's such a good prop.

Trophy boyfriend. She just like poses me and puts clothing on me. She's like like this and I just do what she says and I'm standing there thinking about sandwiches. I made him put on a rabbit costume. Yeah. It was great. I would put on a rabbit costume. And then you put on a Santa costume for Halloween. I mean, sorry for Christmas.

For Christmas, he was Santa. It was great. I need you to back up. For your OnlyFans content, he was a rabbit. Yeah, he's a prop. Yeah. Because it's just more interesting, you know? Are you doing like sexual stuff on your OnlyFans? No. Well, it's like sexual, but it's not like porn. It's like most like innuendo, like suggested. Yeah, like implied. Okay. And where did the rabbit come in? I'm just so curious. You gotta tell this story. He was more just like a prop. Like I was like, I was like, I was like dancing on him, like licking his carrots.

- He was holding a carrot. - Oh, I love that. - He was holding a carrot. - It's funny because she was like, "Hey," kind of last minute, she's like, "Wanna go get a bunny costume and you can be a prop in this video?" I was like, "Oh yeah." And I happened to stop by this random tiny little spot in LA that had legit rabbit costumes that are at Disneyland.

Like it looks so legit. Stop. And then she's like editing it after and she's like, sees I was like doing all these movements. In his background, he's like thumbs upping, like waving, like going like this. Oh my God. He's a great prop. Great prop. I like pulled out my acting skills. And like guys like to see POVs. So we do POV stuff. So it's nice. Okay. He's a good contributor. And it's like still like really innocent. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's not like hand in the vagina.

No, there's no, um, no, like, nipples or vagina. Oh, okay. A little mystery goes a long way. Yeah. So, Too Hot to Handle, you go on this reality show. What the fuck was that like? Too Hot to Handle was fun. It was, I don't mean, it was, how old was I when I did this? I feel like I was, like, 25 when I filmed that. And how old are you now? 29. Okay. Yeah, so it was, like, five-ish years ago. Um, I was just more naive to reality TV. Yeah. Yeah.

and to producers and to experiences and to other people and like other people's intentions so I just went on it to like I genuinely thought I was gonna meet someone like the love my life yeah and yeah I had a good time filming it I wanted to cause drama I was the cast was honestly boring everyone was just sitting around doing nothing so I was like who's gonna watch this so I would just

cause drama just for fun. 'Cause I was like, this is so boring. Like I'm living here, no cell phone. I need to entertain myself. - You're a genius. And they need that too. - Yeah, so I just did that. And then it ended up being good for me after the show came out 'cause it made my career definitely take off. And then I did Love is Blind reunion. And again, I was like, well, I'm here to cause drama. So I'm just gonna do what I have to do.

the producers of that show saw that and liked that and then cast me for a perfect match, which I just did. - Got it. - Yeah. - I actually had your intro as serial reality star. - Yeah, that's my name at this point, honestly. - What? - That's, I feel like what I am at this point. - No, but you're obviously you're so much more than that. Way more than that. - But actually no, why am I saying it like it's a bad thing? People talk about reality television like it's a bad thing. Like, oh, you were on a reality show and you get pigeonholed.

And do you really? I mean, honestly, the one thing. OK, so we have friends that are actors and they had to go back to like regular serving jobs after they did this like really crazy, amazing show. Yeah. That you can't show your real personality. You kind of have to like be, I don't know, demure a bit like Cole Sprouse did an interview and he was like being all weird. And I don't know. I feel like people don't.

show their real personalities and you can't monetize off that. So I really like reality because I can be myself and I can say whatever I want after. And I was able to make a full career on social media and like do, I can literally do whatever I want and make money. And I feel like a real actor, you're more pigeonholed into just that. But reality, I can do real acting now if I wanted to. I can do hosting. I can do podcasts. I can do anything and say anything because I

that's just what's expected of me 'cause that's what I did on TV. - Right. - I also think like some reality people do get pigeonholed, but I don't think Francesca would. Like I think she's just so dynamic. Like she could do so many things. I always tell her that I'm like, you wanna start doing acting, like you would kill it. Like I've seen her act, it's nuts.

So she's a little unique in that way, I think. - Thanks. - What did you do? How did you make sure that you weren't just pigeonholed and you were able to like build this brand and turn that specific time in your life into this huge thing? - I think what I probably did that a lot of other people didn't do was not really care what other people think. So I know a lot of, I know a specific person who I filmed with who was saying,

Oh, I'm the nice girl. I need to be the nice girl. And I can't like deter from that. So she didn't really have an opportunity to like show different facets of her personality. And she's probably not going to get worked with again because she didn't like do anything to make the show interesting. I love that. So you can't really be a host if you don't do anything. Because if you're a host of something, you need to be able to pull drama out of people and like create scenarios. So I think...

me just being able to like kind of not take like a role in the production but to like be able to produce things in the show without being a producer made people that were filming notice that and want to hire me for other things. Yeah, that's so smart. I mean, if we're going to just put that in basic simple terms, not giving a fuck what people think is what's going to... And like taking a role, not just sitting back and letting things happen and like...

letting other people play you around like you have to take a full role in the situation and not care if you're going to be the bad guy and not just focus on coming across like this perfect little angel because that's not relatable enough yes I also think we're in like a time in the world where this is like so much more accepted I think like maybe back in the day like you did have to

be like the nice girl and like the innocent whatever if you wanted this long career and I think like that facade is definitely diminishing and people are like I want the real I want to see who you I want to see you at your flaws I want to see all these different things right because we're trying to like empower women right so it's like

it's that stifling thing like isn't it anymore yes yes and i also think that people just in general they want someone with personality yeah you know yeah so you initially went on reality tv looking for love yeah i mean i was naive and i thought that they were like okay we have perfect people for you here there's you're gonna meet someone the guys are so attractive

So I went into it thinking that I was going to meet someone, but also knowing like right when I got there and you see the cameras and you see the mics, you're like, okay, I'm here to also film something and make the show as amazing as I can. So it was both for me. Okay, so your ex, one of them, Harry Jowsey-

He said somewhere that he went in to the show with the intention of I'm going to get famous off this shit. Yeah. So did he kind of like influence you to like, did he like kind of tell you like behind the scenes like,

- No, no, not at all. - So he didn't help you out? - Harry was boring as fuck on the show too. - Oh, he was? - Yeah. - He just got a personality leader. - He was lucky that it was me that was there with him 'cause any other bitch wouldn't have done the thing. No, I mean, obviously at the time I didn't know that those were his intentions, but everything that's happened since I quickly realized that those were his intentions and even everything he did,

on the reunion and everything up until this very second of the day, it's for attention and to be more famous. So there's no really longevity there because there is this very disingenuine

about those type of people. And I mean, I can see right through it. Right. And over time, people start to. I mean, obviously, I couldn't see right through it then because I was new. Of course. To the environment. And you're not that type of person. So you don't know to look for that, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

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Your cash back really adds up. Okay, I need to know, how would you instigate drama? Well, first of all, were you drunk like 99% of the show? Which one? The too hot to handle. Too hot to handle, we had a two drink a night limit. So no. Stop. Yeah, the only times that we got more alcohol was...

if there was like a private suite situation, then they would give you like a bottle of champagne. But other than that, it was two drinks a night. So no, we were pretty sober. Okay. Perfect match, blackout the entire time. Okay. I love that. Well, I don't love that, but for any of my young impressionable listeners, I do not love that. Just would like to clarify.

That is fucking crazy to drink rule. Yeah. I thought all reality television, they're like trying to like basically put it, you know, alcohol. I think in most shows. Yeah, that's what they do. They would like pump you with alcohol because they want you to make like crazy decisions. But on Too Hot to Handle, if everyone was drunk, there would be no money left. So and my season was a little bit more PG than the rest of them. So I feel like.

I don't know what the limit was later on, but yeah, two drinks. Got it. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that two drink though, because yeah, if it was more than that, I think it would have been crazy, but not in a good way. Yeah.

Not in a good way. Yeah. But you were able to just instigate drama and cause drama. Just sober Francesca. Yeah, I was just out of boredom. Do you do that in your relationship with Jesse? No. No. Like, I feel like our relationship is so different than, like, the reality show Francesca. I mean, when we were first together, like, the drinking would cause, like, arguments and stuff. But I think that's, like, pretty common with relationships these days and when alcohol is involved. Like, it was nothing, like...

- A thousand percent. - And now we're just like so wholesome. - Yeah, we fight like once every six months. - Yeah. - Once every six months. - Yeah. - I read an article on Elite Daily and you were talking about, I don't know like how you guys get over arguments. You were like, we just baby talk. - Yeah. - We baby talk all the time. - What does that mean? - Like do a baby voice? - So like if he does something I don't like or vice versa, we'll be like,

baby, I didn't really like that. You just go high pitched. Yeah. And you like talk like a little baby because then you're like, okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I can tell when like, I'm like annoying her, but she doesn't want to be mean. She's like, oh, can you like not stand right behind me right there, baby? I love you so much. And she's like, and then it makes it nice. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Right, right, right. She's like saying something awful, but she's like, say it like this. I thought.

And it really does work. It's helped us so much. And even when we are having like more serious conversations and you could tell it's like kind of getting heavier, we'll be like, you know,

We start doing the voice again and then it like calms it down. Wow. Okay. So for anyone listening, if you want to like try to end an argument or just make it a little more. Just smoother. Smoother. Lighthearted. Yes. You can't get mad at someone if they're talking in baby talk. No. Like you can't be like, you dumb. No, you can't. If they're like, but sweetie, I love you so much. That's some fucking incredible advice. My 14 year old hates it. I was just about to say, I feel bad for Arlo. Oh,

We look over and Arlo's like staring at us like Arlo probably rolls his eyes. I'm sorry. What are the pronouns? They or he is fine. Yeah. They or he. Okay. Yeah. They roll their eyes. Especially Gen Z's like they think like that shit is like so cringe. Yeah. I mean it is kind of. I do it. Yeah. Like if I see it to other people I'm like oh but like when we do I'm like it's so cute. Right. But in public you guys would not.

We slip up. Yeah, we slip up. We're like in the coffee shop and we're like me.

We look up, we're like, oh shit, we're in bubble. - Yeah, or like we've like filmed like brand deals and we didn't realize we were doing it until we watched it back and we're like, oh shit. - I had to delete full videos we filmed 'cause we talked in baby talk the whole time and I didn't even realize. - Yeah, we're like, we just get so used to it. - That is fucking hilarious. What the brands are like, okay, so we're gonna talk like adults because that's what we are. - No, we watch it back and I was like, I sound like that? Okay, delete this, refilm, get our talking voices back.

So you would start drum on the show. I am an advocate. I know this is not healthy for starting fights.

in the relationship if things are getting stale. Not anything serious, but just like causing a little bit of drama so that an argument ensues and then you have to like come back together and like tell each other like, oh, I love you. - Yeah, I don't know, we don't do that. - You guys like, so that's fucking toxic? - No, I don't think it's toxic. I do get where you're coming from and I think maybe in my past I did it, but I feel like

our lives are already so much all the time. - Right. - And I think we're both so ready to just like have this our safe space that like, we like it that way. - Yeah. - Our outside lives can be crazy and we come together and it's like, oh, this is where everything's calm and we can like drink tea and watch Survivor and like. - Yeah.

- Such a good point. That was the issue in my last relationship is it was not my safe haven. And that's what I need because my life is so fucking crazy. When you're in the public eye, it's a lot. - Yeah, it's good to have someone to like come up to and like be sure. - So you, and I mean, I guess all of your relationships have been public really. Harry was super public and a little bit messy, correct? And then after Harry went on what show, "Love is Blind."

After Harry, I moved to Mexico for a bit and I dated someone named Demi. Wait, no. I did Love is Blind first and then I met Demi. But Love is Blind, I was just, I did the reunion. So they brought me on to just stir shit up. Got it. Yeah. And then you went on the perfect match. Perfect match. Yeah.

- I remember when you were living in Mexico. - Yeah. - I do remember that. And then the perfect match, you were black out the whole time. So naturally you created plenty of drama. - Yeah. When I watch reality shows, you can kind of tell who's being fake and who's like being real. And I have, especially when I'm drinking, I have no filter. And if I think someone's being fake or if I see through something, I'll call it out.

And even on, we just watched "Love is Blind" season four and there was like two mean girls on it. I'm probably gonna get canceled for saying this, but there was two mean girls on it and some of the stuff that they were doing, I literally was giggling 'cause I was like, that's something I would do. Like a girl came into the room-- - Like they copied your playbook. - Yeah, but they were a little bit different in a way. Like I was kind of trying to be more comical with it, but a girl came into the room and she was bawling her eyes out, with their fake tears anyways.

And she was so dramatic. Like after six days, like, and this one girl starts giggling. And I was like, I would have giggled too. But people hated on her for giggling. Like, cause it was a, whatever, like a moment, but you could tell this girl was faking it. Like she was doing it. It ended up coming out after the show came out that she was saying she was just in it for TV or whatever. But like I saw through it. So I would have giggled too. But if I giggled, you're the bad person for just being real. Yeah. Okay. Got it.

But you, okay, but on The Perfect Match and all the shows you did, you were always real. Yeah, 100%. And that's why people love you. Yeah. Because I feel like out of all the people that I remember from Too Hot to Handle, I remember you and I remember Harry because I don't like him. So then on The Perfect Match,

you end up dating a girl, right? Yeah, briefly, yeah. Okay. So at that point, had you like been public with your sexuality? Yeah. You had? Yeah, I dated someone publicly. Her name was Demi for four months. Oh, Demi, Demi. Yeah. Okay. On Too Hot to Handle, were you open about it? Too Hot to Handle, I kissed a girl, but that was about, they didn't like include any like

like bisexualness. But to perfect match they had more like they had Carousel, one of my friends who got engaged on the show, not together anymore. She was like openly bisexual. So there was a lot of talk about that. And there was a lot of talk about me. And I think they were like introducing the element of queerness. Maybe they'll do like a queer perfect match in the future, but it was being, yeah, me too. Cause I feel like most, every single dating show is for straight men. I think they should do a bisexual one. Cause it's,

There's so many possibilities there. Girls on girls, guys on girls, guys on guys. I would love to host something like that. How have they not already done that? Yeah, I know. So on The Perfect Match, you were openly bisexual there. Were you worried to say that? Did you not give a fuck? I mean, I don't think I've ever really been worried because... There's nothing to worry about? There was one girl on the show who was...

She was a little bit worried because she was never really public and like she was worried about like family opinions. But I feel like because I'm just older and I've like been in an open relationship with a girl before, like very publicly and everybody knew that it was kind of just like it is what it is. And I think it's cooler to be

- Like, bi, then it's pretty straight. - Yeah, and she was so public, there was stuff they were calling her Canadian bisexual beauty Francesca Farabee. - Oh my God. We had dated before the show, so that summertime when we were together, we were posting about our relationship as well. So it's like, I was openly queer at that time, so I wasn't nervous, no. - So I've talked about on my show hooking up with girls a lot.

And I always have people DM me like, okay, well, would you consider yourself bi? What do you consider yourself? And I don't know. I just, I don't know. You don't need to have a label, I don't think. Yeah, you don't. I don't need to. I consider myself more like pansexual. Just you're kind of interested in the person and their energy as opposed to their gender or anything like that. You don't really need to put a label on it. Or just queer. Yeah, queer, pansexual is great terms for people who aren't exactly sure because like,

I think people confuse it with bisexuality, which is like you're attracted to both sexes. You like men and you like women, whereas like Francesca kind of doesn't really see the gender as much. And I think that's different. Like it's more of like this very like open fluid, whereas like bisexuality, it's like very like binary. Like I like girls and I like things about girls and I like guys and I like things about guys. Yeah.

- Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And you, Jessie, your TikTok, you have really shown your entire journey. Jessie, if you could like walk me through, because it's so admirable how open you've been and how transparent you've been with the whole process. - Transparent. - Transparent. Yeah. - Wait, that is fucking hilarious.

- That's hilarious. - People have commented that on my TikTok before. - Oh shit, I thought maybe like I could make it my little thing. - You can, it's yours. - Okay, thank you. - Yeah, to be honest, I've said this before, like it wasn't the easiest thing to do. I wish I was like, oh yeah, like I knew like when I started transitioning that I was just gonna like post it everywhere. I did not. Like I was actually really concerned, especially at that time as a pandemic, Trump was in office. It was like not a good time in the world. Not that it's gotten any better.

I remember like literally considering like, could this be like unsafe for me to do? Because I had already, I have a kid. So that's always my first thought. And I had already done Instagram and TikTok like when I was out as a lesbian at the time.

And so I kind of knew what comes along with that. I knew the hate that comes. So I was like a little scared, like long story short, like I got like a DM from a young person that was like, you know, I look up to you so much and like you've kind of saved me essentially. And I was like, okay, that it was like the night I was considering telling my entire transition story. So I was like, okay, next morning I literally posted it on TikTok and it ended up hitting like it's almost at 60 million.

So like that's where I got like a lot of my following. And then from there, I just kind of,

took on this responsibility as like an older trans person to like be there for the younger kids that like I didn't have when I was young. I didn't have anyone that was out there saying like, you're not a freak. - No one. - So that's really my goal now. It's like, I just wanna be there for like the younger generation and make sure they know like they can fall in love and they can have a family and they can be successful and happy. And you know, even more importantly, they can be like alive. 'Cause I've had like young kids later be like, I seen you, like I didn't think I would even ever make it to that age. - Wow.

Like that's really, that kind of encompasses it all and like what I'm trying to do. - I mean, mic drop, that is so commendable. And I love, love, love that you were brave enough and are brave enough to do that because

- We don't have enough of it. - Yeah, no, we don't. - At all. - There's no trans masculine people in the public eye. There really isn't. Elliot Page coming out was huge. And I look up to him so much because going from being someone who is in acting and that image of you is out there in the world for the rest of your life and to be brave enough to do that is so huge for young people that look up to him.

But when transness does get talked about, it's usually trans women. And it's not a positive thing. It's usually that they're saying negative things, but trans men really kind of get pushed aside. - They do. - And that's why I think it's so important because growing up, I felt like literally something was wrong with me. And so, I just think we need more people out there being like, "No, it's perfectly fine." - Yeah, and being open about it. Wait, can you tell me a little bit about that? So growing up, you just felt like there was something wrong. - I felt like,

exactly like you probably heard the term like felt in the wrong body. That's exactly what it felt like from as far back as I can remember. I remember thinking I was a boy, but something went wrong and I was raised really religious. So I thought God made a mistake and I was like, God did something wrong. Like what the hell? Like why did I deserve this? I have five sisters and two brothers. So he's Mormon, uh, Catholic. Okay.

- Okay. - Yeah. - I have the whole Mormon thing, so I was just curious. - Yeah, but it's similar. There's a lot of similarities. - Yeah. - Like the big families and all of that. - Yes. - Yeah, my parents did not believe in birth control and it was like, have as many kids as possible. So I was raised around so many girls and then I had my two brothers and I did not identify with my sisters, only my brothers.

I always was with my younger brother. We did everything together. I was like, something's wrong. And I used to like, once I was old enough to kind of comprehend what was happening, I thought I was just going to hell. Like it, to me, that's what I was taught. I never heard the word transgender, literally not in media, not anywhere. It was not, it did not exist, but I knew clearly this isn't something right. And how old were you when you started feeling like there's something wrong? I mean, I would say four, but like, I was like,

It was really like pre-puberty that like it became real because I was like, oh, now I'm not allowed to run around with my shirt off anymore. And I dressed like a boy. I wore baggy pants and I had my shirt off and backwards hats. And then I got to an age where mom was like, no, like this isn't how ladies dress. Like you can't do this. And that's when like the social pressures hit me. And I was like, oh, my God. And that's when it got work.

because when you're younger, you're kind of androgynous and people don't really care, you know? But when you're like 12, it becomes like, oh, why aren't you liking boys? And why aren't you like interested in makeup and stuff? And so that's when like, I would say like puberty started to hit. I was like, this is something so wrong. Like I feel so off and-

- Oh my God, you must have felt like extremely alone. - Yeah, 100%. I like would literally cry into my pillow at night and be like, God, like when I wake up tomorrow, make me a boy. Like I don't want anyone to know just I wake up and I'm a boy and everyone thought that my whole life. And I think that's so crazy 'cause when I transitioned older,

I was like, I want this transition. Like I didn't want to wake up and I had been born a boy my whole life. I wanted to wake up and transition and do this process and show the world that I did this process. So I think that's important for young kids to hear too. Like you don't need to wake up and it's this like magic thing that happened. Like you can go through this process and it can be okay.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with going through the process. You weren't born wrong. Yeah is basically what you're saying. Yeah. Mm-hmm Just the skins wrong, you know the outsides a little off. That's all it is like I Describe it as like kind of like the really poorly ill-fitting costume and it feels uncomfortable your whole life And then you take that costume off and you're like, oh I can breathe like right. That's what it's like. Yes, so You are kind of keeping this to yourself not kind of you are and I

you never expressed it to your parents oh my god no like i also was attracted to girls when all this was happening so i was so confused because i was like wait i'm a boy so liking girls makes sense but then i was like but i can't tell anyone i'm a boy so now i'm this girl that likes girls and i was like wait so am i gay am i i'm confused and and the only term i did know growing up was that gay is bad so i definitely couldn't say that so it wasn't until

I had already had my kid that I came out to my family. I came out to everybody because at that point I was like, fuck it. I have nothing to lose now. And then over time, like dressing boyish and,

you know, presenting as like a masculine female. It worked for a little bit and it did hold me over and then time just kept, I was like, okay, still, this is not right. And I was lucky to have an amazing queer community that was like, I just got top surgery and I'm on hormones. And I was like, oh my God, okay. And look how happy and safe and everything they are. And then I just went ahead and made that leap. So for anyone listening,

who is maybe, like what you're saying is resonating with them, what advice would you give them? They're feeling alone. Their parents are, you know, religion up the ass and think everything is bad. What would you tell them?

- I think this is, I've been asked this a lot and it's so hard because I never wanna give a young person advice that puts them in harm's way. I could never tell a 12 year old, oh yeah, come out to your parents. This has resulted in death. - Great point. - So what I do always say is we're lucky to live in a time of having these rectangles in our hands that give us access to the entire world.

And in there, there can be a lot of negative, but there's also a lot of really amazing parts. And there's communities that are out there and that are so supportive. And that's where I first started out. I was on Reddit and I was finding communities on Instagram and whatever it was at the time, Tumblr. And it's crazy how much those little communities and other people being like, oh my God, I feel exactly how you feel. That literally saved me at the time before I could find the in real life community once I was like old enough. Yeah, I think that's great. Because you can't tell someone how to. No.

come out or not come out or exactly what to do. But what we can say is find a supportive community that understands. It really, really does help. It's the same as like finding that, you know, when you go to high school and you're scared and then you find that one friend and then it makes your whole high school experience. It's kind of the same thing. You need that like hug, that virtual hug that's like, no, no, I feel like you and like, no, you're cool. We can text all day or like whatever it is. Yeah. Until you are at a point where you can fully, you know, do whatever you need.

to do to be who you are.

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So how old were you when you had your kid? I was a senior in high school so I was 18. A really young 18 year old too. Like when I look back and I was like oh my god I was a baby. Yeah but you well you were Catholic so they were like abortion. I was homeschooled almost my whole life too. Oh really? Yeah. Okay so abortion it was like you didn't even know what the fuck that was. No my like it was not an option.

I went to private Catholic school and they made us watch this Dr. Seuss movie. And it's like a person's a person no matter how small. Like they made us watch that shit in religion class, I remember.

Yeah. Like it's insane. No, I was just telling her not that long ago that like literally my whole life until I was old enough to like find information out on my own. I actually thought they were little babies because it was like it was told to me so many times the pictures were shown to me that I was like,

I get, you know, you just, you believe it when it's all around you and no one's telling you otherwise. And then we were like talking about it because people are now showing on TikTok, like don't be tricked. And I was like, yeah, like literally it wasn't until like I was an adult and could like go on the internet and like search that. Yeah. It's absolutely insane. When I think about like my private Catholic high school, I'm like,

And there was this game they would have us play during recess, like save the baby. And there was like a baby doll. It was so bizarre. That's insane. But then also I was like raised Mormon. So it's all fucked up. Yeah. You're going to get into that. But I think that's really good advice. You were 18 and Arlo. Yeah.

- Best thing that's ever happened. - Best thing that's ever happened. And it's funny because pro-lifers have used that against me 'cause they obviously know I'm a very liberal person and they're like, "Yeah, but you have Arlo. "Aren't you so glad?" I'm like, "No, I'm glad I had the choice. "I had that choice for myself to make that decision "regardless of how I was raised. "I was not gonna go to jail if I did get an abortion." - Yes, yes.

So people are just fucking hating on every single thing you do at any moment. There's... I can't... Yeah. Francesca, you too. I mean, I feel like... I don't know if you get it worse, but different. Yeah, it's different. Your hate is more like people who watch your shows and they're like...

- Yeah, you stupid. - And him is like, you're going to hell. - Yeah, yeah. - So like, okay, got it. You're going to hell, you're a stupid bitch. - Yeah. - I'm trying to think of what my hate. - I think lately it's been like smart bitch. Like I'm a bitch, but at least I'm smart. - Oh, that's a compliment though. - Yeah, yeah. - Calling you a smart bitch. - I'm down. - I'm trying to think of the hate comments I get. Your voice is annoying. Not even when I'm sick. What's the mother shit? You're stupid. You're not that hot.

Just I'm sure all the same shit you got. The internet is brutal. You can't win on there. And I've gotten that you're going to hell because I talk about sex very openly. Yeah. You know like very graphically. People also hate when they see women doing like the same thing a man would do and they would say it was okay. Like if a guy was sitting here talking about sex they would be like oh such a

badass like but you doing it they're like going straight to hell yeah and me anytime i try to be funny in any way shape or form it's like girls aren't funny but we are making some progress as a society yeah i agree 100 you you feel that way yeah i feel that way in most categories but i feel like we're digressing in regard to gender and trans yeah trans issues like 100 we're digressing yeah

- Okay, yeah. - Because-- - There's laws and stuff. - For a while, since it wasn't like a hot button topic to try to get the votes, transgender people mostly went under the radar. Nobody cared if they were using your bathroom 'cause you wouldn't even have noticed. A woman walked into your bathroom, you wouldn't even have noticed or cared. But now it's such a thing that

more hate is on us than ever and that's where I think like to get elected people are like I'm taking away trans rights and then the people in America will be like yeah it's voting it's different in Canada but the way it is here is wild are you Canadian yeah thank god like you yeah we're moving there eventually oh you are we don't want to raise our next kids here yeah probably in like 8 years we'll move

- An eight year? - Yeah. - Oh my God, you have an eight year plan? - I think it's 'cause like, yeah, we're like, okay, pregnant and then birth. And then when the kids are like five, six, then we'll go. - The fact that you have that planned out, I'm like, I need to get my shit in order. - We have everything planned. - Okay, so what's this timeline? Like when are you getting pregnant? - We're probably gonna try and like get the eggs this summer. - You're gonna freeze your eggs? - No, 'cause.

we need to like get his eggs and mine and like put them in a dish and you fertilize them? If we were going immediately from like me to her, no. But because we're gonna probably make embryos and we're gonna use Arlo's, most likely Arlo's biological other dad for the sperm. So we would make my embryo from mine, my embryo from hers, his sperm, and then we would freeze them until she's actually ready to carry. And then put them in. So what?

both of you guys can be one embryo. - No, so it would be twins. It would be twins. It'd be his egg, my egg, same sperm. - Oh, and you're gonna have twins. - That's the plan, yeah. - That is wild and fucking, that is so cool that you can just plan that. - We can like pick gender. We won't pick gender, but we could. Yeah, but we're not going to. I think it's like 20K maybe to pick the gender. But at that point, like, I think that's only necessary if we were to have like,

three girls or three boys and we really wanted a boy or a girl as the last, then maybe we would do that. - Right. - That being said, we also are aware that they could-- - They could change their gender. - Yeah, I was about to say. - Yeah, yeah, we're very aware of that as well. - Let's point out the obvious. - I've never really cared. Honestly, I don't care, but you know. - Yeah, but I don't really care either, yeah. - I feel you. Were you worried about the transition with how it would affect Arlo?

- Or not? - I was because it was kind of like a new frontier. Like I'd come out as gay and that was nothing. It was nothing to my family. It was nothing to Arlo. Arlo grew up with queerness all around them. - He's the cutest kid. - I know. - I watched the video when he was interviewing you guys and I'm like, I have baby fever and I want a kid now. Not that he's a baby, but. - He is forever to me, but he,

- Also a genius. - The jaw structure too. - Yeah, like beautiful. - And the eyes, gorgeous. - And like just all around literally like just amazing. But yeah, like Arlo grew up with so many queer people and literally hearing like, you know, my friends talk about like starting testosterone or estrogen like when they were like three. So I knew it wasn't gonna be this like crazy, like, oh my God, like.

"What are you doing, mom?" at the time. But I just didn't know what to expect. - Yeah. - It's such a new thing. And I think the world doesn't even really know how to respond to this. But luckily I told Arlo and Arlo was like, "Okay, so do I call you mom or dad?" It was so simple. - Oh, I love that. - And yeah, they had a little, it took them a minute to transfer from mom to dad because obviously for, I think it was like 11 years at that point,

They were saying mom, but then it was dad. They're like the most woke human on this planet. Children are. No, Arlo is. Arlo. So woke. It actually makes me look not woke. Way more woke. Yeah, I'm way more woke than us. They correct us. If I want to post something or if I need any advice, I ask Arlo.

I'm like, are the kids still saying this? Is this culturally appropriate? Is this like, is this going to piss anyone off? Like I always ask and they give me thumbs up or thumbs down. Cause like they're in the Gen Z and Gen Zs are a different generation than us. Literally me and my team behind me right here. I feel like what is allowed? Like, what are we saying? It changes all the time. Does Arlo want a job? Because literally Arlo should be a Gen Z consultant. They could be an actor, a

model all these things if they wanted to. Their art is insane. And they're great with public speaking as well and they're great like even when you film TikToks like they're acting I'm like 10 out of 10. Okay does Arlo have his own TikTok? Yeah. Is he killing it?

- Yeah, I mean-- - They just started letting us tag them like a month ago. - Yeah, they're like very private. Like it was private for like years and like they wouldn't let me like tag it or comment. - I'm not allowed to follow them yet. - Yeah, we're not allowed to follow them. - Because they're so like teenager, you know? - Yeah, they're like, they don't think like being famous is cool.

- They don't. - No, like people ask them like, "Oh, your parents are so cool. Aren't you so lucky?" And I was like, "No." - They wanted to be more like a Banksy, like covered. They asked to have their face covered with like a bag for like years and then they grew out of it. They're like, "Nevermind, I'll show my face." But they wanted to be like a cool artist that didn't show their face for a really long time. - Oh my fucking God. - I know. - Okay, so enough with like the overexposure, put out content constantly.

They're just like this cool teenager. Yeah.

- Wow. - The Gen Z's are more like that though. They think the things that we think are cool is not cool for them at all. It's like horrible for them. - I can't, I don't understand it and I can't keep up with it. And I don't know what I should do. - I feel like a boomer half the time. - Arlo, I need to call him. He can consult me when I'm putting together interviews and keep me woke. But also I love that his question to you is just

"Can I still call you?" - Yeah. - I love that. - Really simplified. And at that time I started my transition as a non-binary transition because I wasn't, I knew deep down, but I wanted to see what like being on hormones felt like. And I was like, "What if I start hormones "and I don't like growing a mustache?" Like I'd never had one before.

So I started more non-binary and I think that's why they also asked that question because they were like, mom, dad, like what's good? Like it was so simple to them. And never once did they question me, never once did they say anything negative. It was accepted in that moment. Right. And they moved on with their life and they've never had a negative experience. Yeah, they don't have like, I feel like our generation and the generations above us have like years and years of like exposed hatred and exposed stereotypes that the younger generation just doesn't have.

Well, it's this thing like children are not, they don't grow up with hate. Like you teach them to hate. Yeah. You know? Definitely.

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Okay, so your relationship, I can just tell, is fucking incredible. You guys have your eight-year plan. I love it. You have always, Wolf Francesca specifically, always been sexually liberated and just been very open in that way. But with all relationships come, like, different challenges. Have you ran into challenges, like, with this relationship in particular? No.

No. It's the same as every other one. No, it's not the same. I feel like my past relationships sucked compared to this. Like I would deal with them and I would be like medium happy and I would think that like that was normal. Right. To like deal with like emotional abuse or deal with like

shitty sex or deal with like trust issues because I just thought like that was like you weren't going to find someone who was perfect for you. Yeah. Like I think we're like 98% perfect. We have like 2% that we have issues but it's mainly my fault. No. Yeah. The fact that he just said no is the sweetest thing ever. If we have issues they're mainly because like I'm being moody or I'm getting my period or I didn't want to say it because I don't want to sound like like a mansplainer or something but like it's

almost always the PMS. Like, literally just that time. I was on birth control for like 10 years. So when I went off of it, I was like, oh, these are new feelings. Like, don't touch me. Yeah. Wow. And that's it. You're going to blame it on the PMS right now. Like, I mean, I know. No, before I get my period for the week before I get it, I, if someone breathes on me wrong, like,

No. Okay. Tell me if you felt this. As you get older, the PMS gets worse and worse and worse. I didn't have PMS until like a year ago. Same. Yeah. Same. I swear to God. Yeah. Like I used to not even really notice it. And now it's like my emotions. Yeah. It's serious. Like impatient. Like impatient.

more angry, like sensitive. Like I get sad. I get sad. Yeah. I cry for no reason. I'm like, okay, this is very stereotypical, but it only happened to me recently, but it's fine. Cause I know what it is. And then the minute, the day I get my period, I'm fine. Yeah. I'm like, okay. That's what I do. Like from my perspective, like I try not to let it get to me because I'm like, she's, she's going to be okay in a few days. Like she's going to love me again.

- We just gotta hold out for a few days. - I was gonna say too, I feel like any of the issues we have had,

Has been like outside things like the show. Oh yeah, like perfect match coming out was like not comfy for either of us. Because we were together before we broke up. She did the show and we were together right after. So there was a lot that went into that because people were like, oh, did she cheat on you? Or did you guys, you know, you knew and you were together secretly the whole time. Or like so much came out that was like hating on us and it did like weigh on us. We stuck together and we were like, fuck everyone else. The hate was a lot too.

So it was hard on you. - Yeah, she was getting a lot of hate and I was trying to be there for her, but I was simultaneously also getting people coming. - Sending him videos. - Yeah, and just horrible stuff. - Okay, so I did wanna ask you guys about that because I read you guys were together and then you broke up. How long were you guys broken up for? - So we started dating in July of 2021, correct? And then we were dating for a bit and then we were long distance for a bit and then we broke up, I think it was October.

- Yeah. - Why? - I got kicked out of America basically, 'cause of visa issues. So we were dating for like a week and then I got kicked out of the country. So we were long distance for like three-ish months. - I was like flying to Canada. - Yeah, he got a passport 'cause he didn't have one. He knew he was flying to Canada, but we didn't know when I was gonna be back. And it was just hard long distance. Like we didn't really have like a stable enough relationships to make the long distance work. So we broke up and then,

Around my birthday, in November, he sent me flowers when I got back to LA. And then we started kind of hanging out again. We were like just hooking up. But at that point, I knew I was leaving for filming. So we just remained friends. We're just hooking up a bit. Okay, so while you were broken up, you were hooking up. Once she was back. Once I returned, yeah. We kind of started talking again. And I mean, I know for me, like...

i knew deep down like eventually we were gonna be together so i was like taking this kind of like casual thing and i was like okay like it can be that for now because i think for us it was such a timing thing and i was like we have everything else once the timing is figured out we're gonna be fucking gold so i was like it's worth the wait so i just kind of let her do her thing and i was like right she eventually it'll all work out was there like any jealousy like

Like with her going on the show or not even on the show, but just like if you guys weren't like official, like if she would like go out over the weekend. I don't think. No, I'm not a jealous type. Personally, you're not. She she can. Yeah, but she says this all the time. I'm jealous. It's more for like dramatic effect. Like I'm more just. Are you in denial right now?

- Are you being truthful with yourself right now? - When she drinks. - Okay, alcohol involved does not count. I'm a different person when I'm drunk. - I don't think a little jealousy is wrong. I don't think you need to be defensive. - It's hot. - Yeah, and I get a little jealous 'cause I love you and I'm protective of you. That's what it is. I want you and only you for the rest of my life, so that's why. I think when she drinks, it comes out. But yeah, on the average, no, not really.

We both kind of knew, like, we never even talked about it. Like, we weren't like, oh, like, are you, you know, talking to me? It was just like, leave it where it is. And I think I also knew she was leaving. I didn't know what the show was. I assumed, but I just knew she was leaving for a show. So I think I just kind of left it where it was. And I was like, maybe when she comes back or maybe down the line or whatever. Was it like a, if it's meant to be? Yeah. I knew it was meant to be.

I knew. And she was like laughing at me because when we first started hanging out again, I told her, I was like, we're soulmates and we're eventually going to be together. She was like, you're bold. She was like, okay. How fucking hot that he said that. I see it. I see it. I'd be like, damn. Okay. So then you guys get back together. There's obviously like drama with the show. Whatever. Well, there wasn't drama until the show aired this year. When I got back, it was smooth sailing. Yeah. Like it was perfect. Did you have anxiety? Like when this...

That's how I feel every time a podcast episode is about to drop by. My boyfriend, I'm like, oh, I just talked about some dick that I had hooked up with. I do. I mean, I was nervous a little bit about like...

- Not really, 'cause I didn't think that the show was gonna be edited the way it was edited. So I was like, I was pretty stoked. I'm like, I did my job. Like I thought I was funny, thought I caused drama. I made great friendships. I tried out relationships. They just didn't work. And I mean the quality of men in that house just, you know, was like subpar. - So like the entire world. - Yeah, basically. But yeah, I left like content and happy and pleased with

my performance and the relationships I had made during filming. So I was stoked. And then obviously the show came out and I was like, what the fuck is this? So that was more like hard after it came out. But how did they edit for you to look like? They just edited out like very, very, very, very, very important things and kept in,

certain things that didn't really make sense and move things around, move words around. Like kept in like just anything negative I said, I would try and be funny with it and they would take out all the humor and just keep in the negative. And I was like, that's not even how it went down. And like a lot of producers after the show would message me and be like, I'm sorry, like that's not how it happened. Like I didn't have a say in the editing. We're sorry. And I was like, okay, whatever. But I'm just like, I would never work with that production company ever again. And like,

I don't know, I just didn't think that they would do me that dirty. - Well, that sucks. 'Cause like on the one hand you wanna be authentic, but then on the other hand, you have to be like, how are they gonna twist and turn this shit? - But I knew going into it, I'm like, I could be the sweetest person ever and they could still edit me to look like crazy, so. - She did say that when she got back and we were like getting back together and I was kind of like, I didn't wanna know really what happened on the show, but I was like, we touched base on it. And like, she was like, they could edit this really bad.

Like they could make this look so amazing. She was saying that. I gave a lot of material to work with. So I was like, if they edit it in a certain way, like I could look horrible. And they didn't. There's times where I was saying some fucked up shit and I was like, haha. Like I thought I was so funny, but it just came across a lot worse than I was going to think. I actually like the other day was asked to audition for a reality show. And my sense of humor was,

is like so dry, sarcastic. Like I won't even laugh after. I would be so fucked. Yeah. I'd be so fucked if I went on television. But like, that's what I was thinking is like, as long as I, cause I'm not mean. So as long as I don't come across like a mean girl, I'm fine. If I'm like the funny villain, perfect. But I came across mean. Cause they took out the laugh at that. That could be a thing, but you're so hot. So usually they forgive the hot one.

- The hot ones. - They forgive them. - The hot ones. - The hot ones. - So you have that going for you, so you're fine. - Okay, so maybe I'll be fine.

I better get in there in the next three years. Yeah, you just have to have like some like sweet moments, you know. Just be nice like every once in a while. Yeah, but like say what you really feel. Okay. This is the last thing I wanted to ask you. I love it and I'm asking it for me, but also for the sleuths listening. So on this Elite Daily article, this interview, they asked you like what your best breakup advice is and you basically said...

get a rebound. And you were like, that might not be like the healthiest advice, but I want you to explain it to me a little bit because I think it's genius. - I think, yeah, so when I was younger and if I was heartbroken or if I was upset or hurt over someone, the only way in my experience to forget about that person, make sure you didn't text that person again was to

get a rebound because it would keep you distracted and sometimes it would be beneficial because the rebound would make you realize if you really did miss that person yeah and like then you could go back to them but it was just honestly just it is what you need after you get out of a relationship like fuck the self-healing everyone's fine everyone says you just need to stay single by yourself i don't know you completely disagree with that yeah i love that

- I do see where you're coming from. 'Cause I think like you need that like other person to like fill in that space just long enough to where you're like, okay, I'm not as like fucked up in the head anymore. - Yeah, even if it's someone just giving you attention, someone you're sleeping with, like someone to just text. - Then you won't slip back into the- - After a relationship, if I don't have someone else to just like talk to and text and feel like pretty and wanted, I spiral and I'm like, what is the meaning of life? - Wait, I do too, but is,

there's something wrong with us. No, because look, we're fine. Well, you guys, well, yeah, you guys are fine. But like, I'm talking about us as two girls not being able to be alone at any moment in time. I feel like you've probably been alone for times of your life, right? No. Literally me neither. No.

- No, me neither. - I think maybe there's something we need to work on. - No, I don't think so. - Well, now you don't need to, now you're set. - I was single in my like Dan Bilzerian phase. That was my single time after I dated someone when I was 18 and I was heartbroken. Like that was like my first love. And I still do believe that that was love at the time. This is a different type of love. But I was like in love and we broke up. I was heartbroken. It took me two years to get over it. And that was the only time that I was single and was working on myself, but I was like,

just flying around the world like doing doing whatever i wanted i didn't have like a moment of like self-reflection because like whatever like you kept yourself distracted yeah it's like unless you're gonna be single and go on like an eat pray love fucking situation you know and like just sit there and journal and sit with yourself but i would i would also be doing the same shit i'd also throw myself into work or just distract myself so if i want to text a guy i'm

I'm allowed to. I do think you learn a lot about yourselves by being in different relationships, like with different people. Like I learned a lot about myself from certain exes that I'm really glad that I dated those people because if I didn't, I would be lost in certain other aspects of my life. And it also pushes you towards the right person by dating certain types of people because then you can realize, okay, I want this quality. I don't want this quality. I like this. I don't like this. Yeah. And like, even when we broke up, I briefly dated someone else and I'm really glad it's,

Touchy subject, but I'm really glad that it happened because I learned so much about what I did not want in that type of person. But I'm glad that I X'd it and that I had that experience. So when you dated while you guys had that brief breakup. That was definitely her rebound she's talking about.

Yeah. But it made me realize that I missed him. Yeah. And then we got back together. Yeah. And I mean, that's good. And I'm glad I kind of knew she needed something like that. I kind of felt I think I was a little more like ready than she was because obviously I'm a little older. I have a kid like, yeah, I've already been through every shitty relationship. I don't care to experience like different people anymore. And like for me, when I go through a breakup and like I do a rebound, it makes me miss the person more.

because like every time, like even if they're a great person, because I'm like that, they're just, they're not Francesca. Like I don't get that feeling of like, ooh, like I'm wanted and like I'm distracted. I just get like, like that's not the person I want to be with right now. So like when we broke up, I didn't do it because I was like, I already know it'll actually just make me probably text her. How long were you guys separated for?

- October to March. - March, end of March. - March, yeah. - Who has a calculator or a calendar? - The day she got back, literally. Or the day she got her phone back, she texted me and she was like, - Oh. - She was like, I-- - Got it. - She was like, "Are you still single?" And I was like, "Yup." - Okay, cool. Thank God for that piece of shit. - Yeah. I'm glad it happened. - Yeah. - For sure. - I think that's really smart. Yeah, there's a lot of like self-discovery that happens when you're in a relationship. - Yeah, that's when I have my most self-discovery. I have never done that like,

single like read a book thing. I'm just such a relationship person and like if you get married when you're 30 you're in a relationship to your 70 so you're mostly in a relationship for 80% 90% of your life so you might as well learn how to be in a good one. What do I have to do to get invited to your guys' wedding? You can come. No I just like this is the most romantic relationship I've ever seen.

- Very close to proposing. Like she knows, she knows it's coming. - What? I think it might be well, I have this nail set, but I don't know for sure. - Yeah, it's possible. I paid for her to get her nails done and I was like, you need to have your nails done over like the next,

two months let's say and i was like what do you want she's like black i was like okay oh my god so it's like it's around the corner i hope so i really i know i wish you would do it right here for my view but like i'm not gonna do that you're like are you fucking kidding me i'm gonna do it right here okay so that's like coming up and you're gonna be engaged have you told him like what kind of ring you want oh my god

Don't even get me started. You're like, I didn't even get to put any. No, no, no. It's not that. He designed it. It's been a journey. I feel like this has been like an era of my life, this ring designing. Like I went into, I didn't know like anything about a diamond. Like you could have, someone could have said something about a diamond. I'd be like, yeah, for sure. That's cool. Like nothing. And then now I could start my own ring company. Because of all the knowledge. Yeah. Like I left my birthday camping trip in last August and,

And I left that immediately calling Ring companies. And so it's been that long. And in the beginning, she's like, I want dainty. I want it to be fairy-like and blah, blah, blah. Like all these things. And then as it went on, she's like, I want gaudy. I want gold. I want 23 diamonds. Like I want it to look like it was like forged in the Lord of the Rings. So I was like, it just changed so much that we finally got to a point where I was like, the thing you say right now is your last edit. Yeah, your last edit.

edit. Yeah. And then like a week later, like I'm already like obviously doing it a week later. She's like, actually, I was like, no, no, no. I did change it a few times, but I'm glad I feel like the last things I mentioned were perfect. Yeah. It's, it's definitely, we're ring changers. Like in five years, if we want to change it, we can do that. That's what's so amazing. And I actually didn't know that like talking to the ring designer, she's like, literally, if there's anything Francesca wants to change, eventually we got her like that. And I was like,

I didn't know that. But I mean, you can't like change like the shape. Yeah, like they can literally reset it and they can do whatever you want. We're doing double diamond. Well, I think. I think. But it's cool because like she gave me all of her things and then I did add my own like

Yeah, like he designed it. Yeah, I still designed it. And then you get insurance on the ring, right? Yeah, and then we're going to get, what are they called? A fake one? A travel ring? Yeah, they're like a travel ring. Oh, a fake one. Yeah, so if we're, probably if we're literally going out at night and we're drinking, I wouldn't

Yeah. Because it's like a piece of real estate. Or like tropical vacay. Yeah, don't bring it. So I would get like a replica made. So if you're listening to this, don't try and rob me because the ring's fake. It's the moves from a gumball machine. I got it from Shein. All right.

Okay, guys, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for coming, Francesca and Jesse. Where can they find you? Hottest couple alert. Francesca Farago on all social media and then him, Jesse Sully on all social media. On all social media. And you guys know me, Sophia with an F, Franklin with a Y. And sleuths, I will talk to you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.