15: I Promise He’ll Call You Back After This ft. Shan Boodram 01:05:08

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Welcome to Sophia with an F, everybody. I am joined by my new friend, Shan Booty, which is her Instagram handle. I fucking love that shit. The full name is Shan Boudram, right? That's correct. For anyone that has been listening to my show, Wheezy from Horrible Decisions put us in touch, and Wheezy was like, you have to have her on. She's amazing. She's one of the hottest people I've had on the show, by the way. I think...

- I think she's the hottest girl I've had on the show so far. I'm such an asshole. She is one of the most sought after sex educators. She's a dating coach and relationship expert. She has over 40 million YouTube streams and is a best-selling author. You're making me look bad already. I'm like, what credentials do I have?

We're basking in each other's glow right now. This is mutual masturbation and I'm so here for it. I love that. Okay. So first and foremost, your IG bio says that you are Dr. Ruth meets Rihanna, which is fucking amazing. Can you tell us about that a little bit? Yes. So in one of the lessons that I've taught people before is, um,

And it's about first impressions, right? So you have to find a way to introduce yourself. And you live in LA as well, too, right? I live in New York, but right now I'm in Utah. That's a long story. I can explain it after. You know, people often confuse Utah and LA. Exactly. The question you get in LA constantly and probably in most places in America these days is what do you do?

And yet so many women have zero idea how to answer this question. Like they'll stumble and stutter every single time. So I was like, here's a formula that I want you to learn to describe how you do in a way that invites conversation, puts you in a role of authority and allows people to ask you more. So women, I think are naturally prone to downplaying what they do for a living. So here is the formula, Sophia, and you're going to do it for yourself. Wait, wait.

- This is like the fucking best way to start this because when you were saying that, I'm like, when I get asked that question, I have no clue, none. So please let's do it. - What do you say right now? We have to just get a before and after.

She's putting me on the spot. She's putting me on the fucking spot. I say I'm Sophia Franklin. I just started a new podcast, Sophia with an F. You might formerly know me from my old show called Her Daddy, which that right there needs to stop. Why am I like talking about the old show I was on? But it was like a new thing. I just barely started this show. Yeah.

Oh my God. I don't fucking know. I just kind of wing it. Every time, every time I just wing it and I say different shit. Because most people would say like, Oh, you know, like I just, I work in media. I, I like, I speak.

And then you're like, oh, it's, and when people say it in a certain way that makes it feel like they're uncomfortable, no one's going to ask you more questions about it. But the truth is the thing that you want to talk about is a thing that you know the most about, and you know the most about your work. So if somebody is like, oh, you're in podcasting, incredible, just like this podcast, like that. And then now you can contribute to the conversation. Right. But the worst thing that can happen is you meet somebody and say, what do you do? You downplay your shit. And then they take control and start talking about something you know nothing about. And then you can't contribute and put yourself in the best light.

So like when somebody asks you what you do for a living, that's an alley-oop to show off how badass you are and to start the conversation in a place of authority. So here's the formula. Okay. So you're going to say, I am a, so a matter of fact, so I am a podcaster that, that's

So like, what do you do with your podcast? Like what is the, so I say I am a sex educator that wants to help people be more competent and confident in the bedroom. Right. So what is, what's the purpose of you as a podcaster? Right. I talk about sex. I talk about, you know, what I use all the time is a professional taboo remover because I will talk about all things taboo. And I mean all things. Um, I talk about mental health and I talk about relationships on the show.

I love professional taboo remover. Right. Like in that already, see, I'm already like wanting to ask you more questions. Like that's the whole goal. When somebody asks you a question, how do you answer it in a way that inspires more conversations? We'll go with that. I'm a podcaster that talks, um, that is a professional taboo remover. Right. I like that. Yeah. Well, what was your wording? That special taboo remover, uh, who has a focus on mental health and relationships. And now here's the fun part. Kind of like,

So what is like two things that are unexpected that you can put together that somehow perfectly describe what you do? So I have Dr. Rupne Triana. Oh, that's so fucking good. Two words. Because it's like somebody in mental health. And then it's almost, I want to say kind of like Esther Perel meets Howard Stern. Yes. Yes, because...

that's you know my podcast is in the comedy section like I am funny so yeah that would be perfect I would never say something like that and now you're bringing it out of me you're like taking the confidence and like I'm doing it thank you I live for it yeah so then now you would just have a like plug and play response if someone asks what you do I'm a professional podcaster that uh that removes taboos especially in mental health and relationships kind of like

uh esther perel meets howard stern and then everyone's like that's so much information like let's talk more about it so my intro is specifically designed so people are curious and excited about what i do for a living that's i mean that's so fucking brilliant you're gonna go look at my ig bio and it's gonna say um rihanna meets dr ruth and you're gonna be like fuck you bitch

No, but it's so great. I love it. So there's a couple of things before we get started. So this podcast so far, give or take a couple of people have mostly all of my guests have consisted of friends and family. Yeah.

who are all just as crazy, neurotic and toxic as I am or worse. And so I am so excited. As a friend. So are you like, don't fucking group me in with that shit. Like you're ruining my brand. No, I'm absolutely not. But I'm very excited to have you because your experience, your expertise. So I think it's going to be really good. I,

I want to start with, this is going to sound a little bit random. Yesterday, I had the worst day ever. I was so fucking emotional. I started to think about the concept of self-love and self-care. And I've never really given it that much thought. And yesterday...

I realized I have the most toxic way of thinking about it where I feel like I don't deserve to, you know, take a long hot bath with a face mask and wine and pizza and do the whole self-care thing unless I've earned it. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And first of all, I'm sorry you had a shit day yesterday. How are you feeling today? I feel amazing today. Yeah.

What a shower can do. What a shower can do. I sound disgusting. People are like... It does. It does. Or putting makeup on. As a soundbite alone, it sounds terrible. I know what you're saying. Yes. But you're not saying that you don't shower. No, I'm not saying that. But understanding the specific value of showering, especially in the wake of feeling like shit. Exactly. So, well, I took a shower and I was feeling like shit and it just...

And then I started thinking about this self-love, self-care thing. And it's almost like, Sophia, do you deserve to relax and read a book, you know, with candles lit if you haven't gone to the gym? Yeah.

Like, it's kind of like you need to do certain things before you can do the self-love, self-care thing. And I realized like that is the opposite way that we should be thinking about it. I'm actually taking a course right now in human learning. And it's interesting because what you're talking about is specific to operant conditioning where we get a reinforcement when the certain behavior that's ideal is performed. So working out like earns you the right to relax and love yourself.

And in some cases, it's not necessarily a bad thing. What it does is it forces people to accomplish something that they know that they have to, to do the things they know that they want to. But I think what you're saying, which is so true, is that we look at self-love as something that we want to do, not something that we have to do, where self-love is just as valuable as...

working out. It shouldn't be the reward to that because it shouldn't be contingent on anything. Like that has to happen regardless. So I feel like if you've chosen another reward, like maybe wine is the reward, but loving on yourself in the shower, like that is a given that's going to happen regardless. The extra bonus thing might be something that, you know, you don't necessarily like need every single day, but

self love as something that is massively important and not just this frivolous thing that you give yourself a pat on the back once in a while and do I think that's that's a really great point. It's almost I thought about it this way where if I am practicing self love and self care before I feel like I earned it or whatever, which is how it should be the working out and all of those things and taking care of yourself. I feel like those will also be easier to do if that makes sense.

You know what I mean? Yeah, get yourself in the right mindset. Right. It's like you almost prime yourself to be more successful and productive when you start the day off first by acknowledging that you're the shit and that you're deserving of care. And I think it sets a precedent too because when you start the day like, I deserve to be treated well, I deserve to be spoken to nicely, I deserve to be lavished and loved on, then that's what you expect going forward when you leave the door. So I think that that's a really fascinating concept. Well,

Well, yeah. And then that just brought up another idea is you're a new mom. And so I feel like maybe you can relate to this. I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but me, who I don't have a kid...

How powerful it is, the shower, putting makeup on, putting cute clothes on, jewelry. Living in quarantine at my mom's house, that's where I am right now. What's up, mama? Hi, mom. She actually wanted to stay in here for this. And I'm like, please stop. Like, I'm not. I have just realized how powerful those things can be. I never fucking do them. You know, I'm sitting at home all day and...

And that's like a whole, you know, that's a whole different topic. But you know what, girl, actually that made me really think about how I thought about this sentence this morning that I was like, Oh, this makes me like so anti-feminist to say or to think, but it's rooted in feminism, but everybody should be pregnant. I think everyone should be pregnant once in their life or go through that experience of like intentionally trying to have a kid. Not because the end outcome is of having a baby. We're all supposed to be moms, but like,

It's like a lesson in self-love and self-care because the way that you treat yourself when you feel like a special life is inside of you is so different than how you treat yourself the rest of your life. And it's like, bitch, there's always been a special life inside of you. Like prior to having a fetus in there, there was you. So-

Why is it that you're eating Cheetos for breakfast when you think that you're the only person who's going to negatively be impacted by that? And once you have a baby, all of a sudden now you're like cutting up carrots and like sauteing spinach, things you could have always been doing. So I felt like being pregnant for me was like a light bulb moment of,

wow, I really treat myself like I'm nobody to be nurtured. I treat myself like I'm no one to be looked after. And I think after having a baby, that's something I kept consciously in mind that even though I no longer had an additional life inside of me, I still had a special life inside of me that was just as deserving as being protected, loved, honored, and nurtured.

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The reason why is two people extremely close to me, one of them living in this house, they were both broken up with two days ago. It was the most random thing. And so I'm living... That's what you actually did yesterday.

wait. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. See, I'm so out of body. I don't even fucking know like what is making me feel a certain way. So I'm living with someone right now going through a breakup and I forgot how fucking hard and horrible it is. Like it really is, you know, you know, a minor, maybe major form of trauma for some people. So I want to ask you with all of your expertise, um,

What advice do you have for people going through a breakup? I would say if you had a heroin addiction and you stopped having access to heroin, how would you behave? And would your behavior to you

cue to you that like you and heroin are destined for each other? Or would it cue to you that like that was an addictive substance that had negative impacts on me. And now I'm going through the natural withdrawals that are associated with having an addiction like that. So it like love is a drug and it's,

It is a love is a biological necessity to keep people together. So I always like think about this in terms of humans, like not that we're not that awesome. We don't run that fast. We don't run that long. We don't climb trees that great. We don't swim in the water that long. We are the easiest target. Like we are like the duds of the mammalian community. But what we have in our favor is our ability to connect and work together. And the only thing that maintains people's

goodwill towards each other or like a need for me to sacrifice myself in order for your good is like the concept of love. And like the ultimate love is where you like devote yourself to another small being, which is not possible, that romantic love. So anyhow, like that to be said, you ever watched March of the Penguins before? I haven't.

It's this concept where like penguins couple up and then they march to the fucking end of the earth because penguins suck too. Like they're like, they can't run fast. They can't swim that great. They can't fly. They're really, really like they're sitting ducks. So penguins suck. So the only way that they can actually mate and survive as a species is if they go somewhere that literally nothing else can survive it.

So they go to this cold, shitty part of the world and they mate there. And it's like a love story. It was penguins that couple up and they don't break up and they're devoted to each other. And you can look at it from that perspective, like penguins really know how to love. Or you can look at it like, holy fuck, love is so incredibly addictive because you know for a fact it's not going to matter if one of the penguins has a gambling problem, if one of them has

B.O. They're going to stick together because that chemical bond of love that nature creates is just that strong. And so breaking that bond is traumatic. Breaking that bond is like telling your body we're going to go without food for the next foreseeable future. Your body's going to go into shock for it. So if you can look at it like that,

When you quit smoking, you expect to have withdrawals. There's no part of you that looks at the withdrawals or an indicator that me and smoking are twin flames. You just acknowledge it's addictive. So I just tell people that there's nothing that anybody can say to you. You know what I mean? There is no speech that somebody can give a heroin addict going through withdrawal. It's just going to make them not experience those. You're going to feel that way. You're going to feel that longing. You're going to feel that loss.

It's going to be shitty. You're going to have night sweats. You might have heart palpitations, but you just have to get through that phase and time will help you do it. And then in those moments, just rationalize and reminding yourself that this is part of the process, not an indicator that I should quit on the process. I feel like that's the way of getting through it. I think that's such a good point because, um,

um the person that got broken up with that i'm living with she said i just am so scared that i'm gonna get super depressed again and all of these things and i said that's part of the game like that's that's something you just have to you know observe and sit with and that's you know what comes with it you went through a big ass breakup last year a very public breakup how did you get through it like what was your recipe honestly

It was so traumatic in so many ways that the actual relationship...

Wasn't at the forefront of my mind. It was like the public smear campaign where I had thousands of people, you know, having me to fucking kill myself. I was lucky enough to have like the relationship breakup kind of not as important as all of the other things. Does that make sense? It was it was trauma. And I think I blocked a lot of it out. Also, it was so traumatic that

that I've realized looking back, I don't remember a lot of it, you know?

Like I just kind of blocked it out. Did you feel like you did anything? Like I'll give like a, I went, I had a toxic breakup before I met my current partner. And it's the same thing. Like I knew that person was like a negative for me and getting rid of them was the best thing that didn't change the fact that like I longed for them. And so something that I do that really helped me is when I had those like desires, like I have a panic attack, like I have to reach out to them. Um, instead of actually reaching out, I would just reread old emails and I

I made sure that I read them like in their voice so I could hear them. So it felt like we were talking, but in reading those emails, I would also read them in the context of this is why we could never work. Right. Okay. So they were like negative emails type thing. Or it could have just not been like, sometimes the emails were like self pitying emails that they wrote. You know, it was just like,

I reminded myself of the characteristics that they had that ultimately made this like a bad partnership because you know, you know how like you can really miss somebody toxic. And the second that you're talking to them, you're like, why the fuck? 100%. They hang up the phone and you're like, yeah, like they're not around, but.

So if you read those emails with that same sort of notion of like, I'm reminding myself why you're not allowed in my life anymore, not invited into this incredible party. I feel like that gave me the hit of reaching out without actually compromising my healing process. Right. That's actually that's for anyone listening. If you are going through a breakup and you're thinking to yourself,

oh my God, I miss them so much because that's what we do, right? We look back and we only see like, we only remember the most positive, like amazing things. Go back and read, you know, their texts or their emails or whatever and their voice and put yourself back into what it was like dating them and remind yourself. I also think that, you know, in my instance,

And I would love your opinion. Do you ever think sometimes the betrayal of what that person did is just so horrific that it makes it easy to not even wish that you could talk to them again or miss them or any of that? Can you give me an example? Okay.

If I am dating a guy and we have to break up and it's because it's just not the right time, but we still love each other or, you know, he's just not ready, but he's just the best guy to me. That is a certain instance where I would really, it would be hard for me to get over it. Now, if I'm dating a guy and he cheated on me repeatedly, um,

you know, talked to me and disrespected me and crossed boundaries that we could never come back from, like called me a cunt or, you know, whatever. You guys use your imagination. I could go down a list. But if it's something like that and maybe the final straw is like you find out he fucked your mom.

Okay, it doesn't need to be that intense, but he was just such a horrific person. And the final straw was you walked in on him fucking someone. Wouldn't that make it easier for you to just move on because it's so crystal clear what a terrible person they are? Does that make sense?

It does make sense. But the truth is, it actually makes it harder to move on from the person because we're most drawn to pairings. Like we most need or seek out people when we feel like our, like our survival's at risk, right? So like if you're being attacked by a bear, the first thing you're going to want is like community or people around you, like you want like allies. And so people who are constantly put in scenarios that feel like they are

at risk of their survival. So the reason why people stay in abusive relationships is like, it's this weird thing where you are going into fight or flight constantly, which makes you want to be close to those that you love. But the truth is, it's the one that you love who's putting you in fight or flight. So it becomes this really bizarre toxic cycle because they become the only person who can soothe you, even though they're the person who put you at risk in the first place.

And so sometimes when you're actually in a peaceful relationship and you're able to have sound mind and like your body isn't used to going into those like cycles of fight or flight where you need desperately need to be around community or people that are close to you to feel like calm and connect again. It's easier because you're not going through that like traumatic cycle.

So I feel like that's the misconception that the worse somebody is to you, the easier it is to leave. But it's often the opposite, unfortunately. Interesting. Hmm. I've never thought about it that way. But a common theme I've recognized is the first thing that people tell me when they, you know, are going through a breakup is I'm never going to find anyone again.

And I had this conversation yesterday and I told her that is, you know, like mourn however you want, but that really shouldn't be how you're thinking about it. My first reaction, what I try to do is it doesn't matter when I find the next person. Let me do the self-love, self-care shit and take a fucking shower. Yeah.

Yes. And I think that's what brings you to finding the next person. I was going to say that sometimes after the worst relationships, the reason why you have the notion that you can't find somebody else is because they literally told you that. Whether or not, like in those exact words, but that was like a repetition throughout that you should be grateful to be with me. You get to put up with this behavior because I'm the best that you can do. I'm the only person who can love you. I'm the only person who would ever like... Right. Yeah.

stomach, your unique tragic flaws. And so you start to believe that narrative, which that again puts you in this place of like, I can never find somebody else. But also to, again, like kind of like the penguin thing, right? Like you pair up with a penguin and then nature is like, this is your fucking penguin. Um, and biologically that's your penguin. And so

the reason why those penguins stay together is because they probably have that same thought of like, this is my penguin. If I leave this penguin and I won't be able to like successfully reproduce and finish my penguin duties. That is again, like try and think about it sometimes, like what would be the evolutionary benefit to certain behaviors in myself that I don't like?

Like even our drive to eat poorly. Like when we think about like, why am I, I know that if I don't go to the gym and I eat crazy, I don't like myself. I know that I feel sluggish. I know I don't sleep well, but why do I keep hitting up Taco Bell? Like, and you try and think about it from the perspective of like, okay, like,

from an evolutionary perspective, like why would this drive serve me or a version of me like thousands of years ago? And then you can understand why it's happening. So I feel like it's natural. It's just nature's way of making it so people stay together who, and nature isn't, our natural responses are not designed to make us happy. They're designed to try to like help us survive. Yeah. I love that you are referencing the penguins because the,

this brings me to the topic you're like laughing you're like I'm like where's this penguin thing in it I love speaking of penguins you're like bitch it was way deeper than the penguins I'm like all I got was penguins no you know what's so fun is a friend of mine you know the womanizer the sex toy that's like my favorite that's the only one I use well she has a penguin version the womanizer so that the suction area is like a penguin's mouth like

That is so fucking cute. Oh my God. Um, are penguins the ones people are going to be like, what the fuck are penguins? The ones that do the pebble thing. Don't they like offer a pebble to the other penguin? Yeah.

Oh, maybe. I didn't know that. Yeah, I think I've heard that. We'll research it and get back to you guys. Don't worry. I want to get your opinion because I have this kind of toxic outlook on a certain aspect of breakups. And I really am interested to see what you think. I, from personal experience, think that you do not fully 100% understand

move on from your partner that you are not with anymore until you find the next person. Now, that's not to say, you know, in the interim that you are happy and you feel full and, you know, you're living your best life. I don't mean it that way. Just they will always kind of be in the

and relationships and you might kind of miss them for that until you find the next guy or girl.

I totally agree with that. I honestly challenge you to say that in many cases, you might still not get over your ex even when you do find somebody else. You might have more distractions, but I still think about, I'm a whole ass married woman and I still think about my toxic, terrible ex and I would never, ever want to be in a lineup at a drive-thru behind. I have no drive or desire to be around that person, but I do still think about them and I do still have those moments and

Um, I actually signed a Twitter the other day and Twitter was like, Oh, your friend just joined Twitter. I was like, what Twitter? Like what the, you've never told me about nobody doing Twitter before. I care about this. Um,

So I just, I think that those like those attachments, like attachments are extremely difficult to break. And then kind of going back to the fact that romantic attachments are arguably one of the strongest, if you know, a better argument would be like between like mother and child or father and child. But the, the attachment is really strong since a long time, but I, I totally understand what you mean where like, you just need a different addiction. Yes. Like it's, you know how like energy is never destroyed or created. It's just transferred. So,

So attachment in many ways, never destroyed or created. It's just transferred from one party to the next. Right. It's like I'm over the heroin thing. Like I'm picking up meth. I think that's where my speed. Okay. And that's the thing. You know what? Actually myself and my partner, like we acknowledge the addiction in our relationship. Like we embrace that as a part of loving each other. I love that. There are times that I will swap out. I love you so much with like, I'm so fucking addicted to you.

But it's a great addiction that I love. You know when somebody says, I'm addicted to working out, and you're like, oh my God, it must be nice. Because I'm addicted to Cheetos in the morning. I'm addicted to those dark chocolates. I'm right there with you. When somebody has those addictions, it doesn't mean they have to be negative, like the attachment to somebody. So yeah, meth might be a better addiction for you that brings out the best in you and enhances your life in every way and makes you enjoy it.

yourself more, enjoy life more and like see more of the world. Right. So then, yeah, she is arguably a very, very healthy one. Right. It's like I saw this phrase the other day in your relationship owning the ugly. It's like, you know, there may be some unhealthy things here, but I want to own it and verbalize it and, you know, kind of just own it. And I love that you say I'm so addicted to you right now. I think that's amazing. Right.

I love that. And it's a great, like, I don't know, there's something sexy about that. Ooh, like. That is. You know, I'm about to text my fucking boyfriend right after this and say that. Yes. I'm stealing all your shit. I'm writing it down. Okay. So you have referenced your husband. You've been married for two years. Yes, research. Correct.

Girl, if you don't think I stalked you and your boyfriend and your friends and your followers and everyone, you are wrong. Well, for just like discovering who I was through Weezy like three days ago, that's extremely impressive. Oh, girlfriend, if I told you all the shit I know about you, you'd be like, I am getting a restraining order. I stalked you and your husband and you guys, I don't know the details, but...

You guys are so fucking cute together, your videos together. It's very enviable, the type of relationship you guys have. And I kind of wanted to just ask you the background, like how did you guys meet? How did it evolve into getting married? Did you always want to get married?

Yes. And girl, you know what? I received that a thousand percent. Cause like, I think sometimes people feel the inclination to say like, well, it's not perfect. You're like, everyone has their struggle. They should start hard. Like now, like I worked my ass off for this shit and it's amazing. Just like I would expect somebody who studies finances for a living to have a great financial portfolio and like the IRS to be their best friend because they're on that shit. Like, yes, I say this for a living and I feel like my relationship is a reflection of the work that I've put in over a decade plus. So, uh,

I will say that, that like, I'm proud to say this is the best part of my life and my relationship is hands down my greatest accomplishment. But that's just because I worked my ass off for it every step of the way. Like I didn't meet my husband until I was 30. I didn't probably start even having sex.

good relationship. He and I started as friends with benefits. And then we moved into an open relationship because I was having an incredible time dating. Cause I feel like at 30, that was the first time in my life that I actually started dating. Well, before that I was like dating at the expense of myself.

and my self-worth and my identity. And then it was like, when I really figured out how do you show up to meet somebody else and woo somebody else while actually like loving yourself more in the process, that's when dating became fun. And then I think non-coincidentally, that's when I met my life partner. So with him, it was like, we went from like fuck buddies to friends with benefits. Cause I don't think we were friends in the beginning.

And then we moved in together. We were roommates. And then we decided to be in an open relationship. And then we continued on with that title. And then we decided to get into business together. And then we continued with that title. And then we decided to get engaged. And we felt great about that. Let's get cool. Let's see what marriage looks like. And that's great. We're doing successful at all of these different roles. And they're building on top of each other. Let's try parenthood together. So that's, I think, the story of my relationship. It was deliberate engagement.

slow intention setting. And I never, ever thought I never met him and thought this is the father of my kids. Even

Even when we got married, I didn't look at him like, this is the father of my kids. Everything kind of came as life made sense for it to come next. Yeah. Something stood out to me is you, I mean, the both of you must be, I do not want to say the word woke, but just the fact that...

The fact that you started as friends with benefits and then the open relationship and then into marriage, a lot of people can't even handle that their boyfriend or girlfriend had had sex with someone before meeting them.

And so I just think that's a really amazing thing that you guys are just mature enough. I don't want to say mature because everybody's different, but you were able to be in an open relationship. And did that come with any issues at all? Or were you guys just both on the same page, honest with each other? And it was kind of a flawless thing.

I think like when it came into an issue, like there was a certain time that I was like dating somebody else. And I want to say dating, just like literally like I was going on dates. Like that was, it wasn't like a boyfriend or something, but I was going on dates with somebody else when we just moved into a new place. So when you move into a new place, like you're like, where the fuck is this? Where's that? Like, so your interactions are just less loving by virtue of the fact that moving is annoying. So I think going on dates at a time where our relationship was not,

like our time together wasn't that quality i feel like that was was not a good move so we learned that lesson of like okay cool like if we're gonna actively participate in being open we want to be at a time where we're most proud of our relationship our connection if we're not any additional time should be spent on like repairing that like getting to a good place so right like that was the thing that we had the learning curve of it but there will always be more i think every we haven't uh engaged in like openness probably you know in a number of years so

The next time it happens, I'll have a brand new lesson for you. I'm excited for that. I don't know. I like that side of it. I love that. I am. At the end of day one, I'm obsessed with this topic. Like you and me could talk for days about what you experienced last year. Like I would love to know every detail about yourself because

It's those, like nobody else is going to have the stories that you have, Sophia. Right. Like you went through a one in a billion experience. Yeah. So it's not like heard it before. So I'm fascinated by the topic and I love my partner and I'm interested in everything. I want to know like,

Oh, did you go number two? Like we were, you know, we're apart right now. And I'll call him and ask what'd you eat? Like, did you go to the bathroom? Did you sleep well? I'm so curious about you. It's like, why would I not be curious about the most interesting part of you, which is like your experience as a sexual being. So I love that.

find someone else attractive. Like, I want to know, like, if you, you know what? I have a very similar outlook to that as well. I know a lot of people are like, I don't want to hear how many people you've slept with. I don't want to hear about the sex you've had.

In the relationship I'm in now where I trust him 100%, honesty all the time, I don't have little... I mean, I'll have flare-ups of insecurity, but they're, you know, few and far between. Those are the relationships where I want to know everything about you. Tell me about the sex. Tell me about this and that. Relationships I've had in the past...

where the trust is not 100% and stuff like that is when I don't want to hear those things. Yeah. It's like, I don't want to hear about your fantasy football league. I definitely want to hear about the best and worst handjob you ever got before. Like that's interesting material and stuff.

But yeah, I think you made a great point where if you're already feeling insecure and unsettled, almost anything can trigger you. Going to the grocery store and them not picking the cereal that you want can trigger you. So why would it not trigger you if you also bumped into their ex that they have called out during lovemaking one day? So naturally, I think that being able to be curious for that side of your partner, one, I think it's personality-based. Two, kind of going back to monogamy. Monogamy is beautiful. It's an incredible thing.

thing to try to participate in. But if that's wholly who you are, you may just not be comfortable with the idea of that because like that principle really like fuels what you think of when you think of what a healthy connection is. But there's like a million different, like there's little things that set you up to enjoy,

some aspect of non monogamy or some aspect of being curious about your partner's sexual endeavors beyond you. But I think a big part of that puzzle is do you feel secure in the relationship? Because if you don't, even if you are somebody who would be cool with non monogamy, you might find yourself really, really struggling with it. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's very well said. Um, you mentioned in your 20s, you were kind of dating men for the wrong reasons.

And then when you hit 30, it was a completely different experience. That is interesting because I have heard that

When women are dating in their 30s is when they're feeling all of the pressure and it's not fun at all because, you know, their biological clock and having babies and what society puts on us. Be married by the time. Well, if you're in Utah, be married by the time you're 18. But everywhere else, it's like 30, you know, in your 30s.

Do you think that it was just kind of you growing up? Do you think it's all the work you put in?

Were you just more self-realized at 30? I really intentionally, like I started as a sex educator in my teens. And the reason I started is because I had really, a really shitty teen sex life and really bad self-esteem when it came to my body and no knowledge about pleasure whatsoever. And so I did sex education for me so that I could learn. And when I learned stuff, I was like, oh, this is great. Other people should know that.

And sort of similarly at like 20, I got out of a relationship at 28. That was like that had toxic one. Well,

Well, actually I got out of it at 30, to be honest. I moved to LA when I was in my turn 28, but then I just kind of stayed in this weird long distance toxic. That's my favorite thing is to make sure I'm in the toxic relationship for like an extra two to three years. Yes, exactly. Fucking ridiculous. Like it's done, but like I was, I was still hanging out in the parking lot afterwards, but, um,

So I just, when we definitively broke up, I was like, I'm not good at dating. I said that to myself. I'm not good at relationships. I'm not good at dating. At 19, I said to myself, I'm not good at sex. This is not working out well. Somebody who is good at this would not be having these back-to-back repeat experiences. So I'm like, I'm not good at this. So even though we don't think about dating as an objective skill that you can learn, like cooking, it actually is. It's hard.

How do you show up? How do you select the right people? How do you woo people? How do you seduce? How do you make sure that the best parts of you are put forward? And I think the biggest switch that happened for me is in my 20s, I was trying to date people that I really liked. And then in my 30s, I was choosing people that I liked myself around.

It just inherently became more fun because I was picking somebody who made me feel sexy and cool and interesting. And through that, I got to be more present for them because I enjoyed the experience of being me. Whereas I think in my 20s, I was picking these guys who I really thought of as better than me. And then I would be weird or like nervous. Oh my God, I know it well. I know it well. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I didn't like myself. I didn't feel like they got to really get to know me. And it was this weird mix of thing that happened and it was an unenjoyable experience. But I think also what contributed to me being comfortable and enjoying dating in my thirties is that nothing in my life was worked out. So I think people who have that pressure of like, I have to get married, it's because they have their house already, or they have their career and have everything else. And that's a class missing piece. I was living in a studio apartment

on the brink of being kicked out of America with my car was the only thing in my name. Not being married is the least of my problems. Right. And you fucking come far since then. Goddamn. That's amazing. Okay. So I want to just quickly discuss you being a new mom. How long ago did you have your baby? November 12th. Oh my God.

Oh my, two months ago. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. I have to ask you a few questions. So, A, do you fucking sleep? Like, do you get any sleep? Yes.

Absolutely. You know what, girl? Like there's things like I had made a video about this saying this, that motherhood is one of those things where people say things in absolute truth. So you feel like it's like the inevitable experience. And honestly, like the, the babies are great. My baby's great at the human stuff, like sleeping, shitting, burping.

burping. She's good at that. She's just not good at relaxing. Oh, interesting. Very like very fussy. Like it's born very quickly. So like not good. Like I, at first I was genuinely concerned. Like, do you not want to be here? Like you don't seem to like earth that much. And this is really all that there is to it. So if you don't like it, like let me know.

Um, so everybody's experience is different. Some people are like my baby's so relaxed and chill, but she doesn't sleep at all. Or, you know, she's a really great sleeper, but doesn't latch very well. So I think I've actually got way more sleep as a new mom than I did during pregnancy. Like hands down. I just have to commend you because you speak so openly about your pregnancy and your relationship with your kid. And I think, um,

I mean, just like slow clap because there's so many women that they're, they won't say anything because they really feel like they need to present a like picture perfect type scenario, you know, has your perception of the world and what's important changed as being a mom? You know what? Like I'm so, um,

I just, I like really hate cliches. And so I like hate myself for being a cliche by saying things like, you know, it's just like, once you're a mom, you experience a whole different type of love. It's just, it's just different. You know, like you probably don't understand if you don't have a baby. Like I just don't ever want to be that person. Right. Like it's the same world. Maybe certain things are accentuated.

like it's almost it's the same world but just on vacation you know when you're on vacation like the food is more exciting everything's a bit more fun you just you just you sleep a little bit better for the hope when the hotel pillows are like hitting like i don't know why but it's the same world i'm just like i feel like i'm on the vacation mode a little bit where everything just feels like a little bit more vibrant okay well i'm getting pregnant tomorrow then

Okay. I know. The world's still great. I loved my life without, I would have had an amazing life if I didn't have a kid and I would have been like happy to do that. So like, it's a beautiful choice to decide like just me is enough. I'm enough of a baby to look after. Of course. So I don't have to like perpetuate the feeling, the message that like you can't live life to the fullest or experience love unless like you're a parent. Yeah. It's similar to a relationship. It's, it should be an addition, not,

you know, to complete you. Yeah. Yeah. But don't go wrong. Sometimes it's great. Like Esther Perel talks about this, how a lot of people like have this negative perception of not being your full self for you into relationship because sometimes a relationship can be the thing that you need to become your full self. Like your mom's case, sometimes having a kid is actually the thing that you needed to like become the person that you're proud of. So there's no wrong way to like level up your life. Yeah. Um,

That's a great point, too. There's no wrong way to, like, go about any of these things. You know, we're human. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home... Yes, cool! ...or attending one live...

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So let's go into listener questions. These are rapid fire questions.

So the first question, help. What should you do when a guy spits in your mouth during sex? I'm so into it, but do I lick my lips after, talk dirty, or just make a sexy face? Help. Ooh, you know what, though?

Because you're so into it, I feel like the natural response is the best response. You got to think about what you want to do when you don't like something, because now you have to figure out a way to strategically dissuade that emotion. So if you like something, first of all, even just saying like, that was fucking hot, because now you're reinforcing a behavior that you like.

Or they spit in your mouth and you like that. So a way to reinforce that is to do something, you know, that they like to them. So I feel like that's not a problem because you like it. Do whatever feels like, oh, thank you. Right, I agree. It's like all of the above. Do, you know, do whichever like comes naturally. If you want to lick your lips, that's hot. If you want to spit it back into his mouth. Sexy, a big wet kiss afterwards. Right. Taking a...

and then give an oral like yes yes get creative and be yourself I think that that's really good um okay next question

We kind of talked about this, but hi, Sophia. I love your podcast. And I'm wondering if you could talk about your favorite sex toy or what to know about them. I'm 19 and really confused by them and how expensive the good ones are. Help from someone as experienced as you. They're talking about me, but you're more experienced. So thank God you're here. Would mean a lot. I don't really have any friends I could talk to about this.

So you already gave your favorite toy womanizer 100%. I was going to say the vibrator has never worked for me. I've tried on multiple occasions, different kinds. I think the vibrator is a more difficult sex toy to navigate because it comes in thousands of different forms. The womanizer does as well, but it's kind of the same concept. It's the suction cup, the

clit stimulator thing, you know? So I would say womanizer would be my, if I could suggest anything. Um, and then how expensive the good ones are. Do you think you can be cheap when it comes to sex toys? Cause I, the best boy I've ever had hands down was a showerhead. Uh,

So that wasn't, you know, all that. But I think water is a great tool to learn about additional pleasure items and like what you want out of them. So I was asked people like, because a lot of people started masking water to begin with, like, what was your technique? And so some people are the kind who they turn the faucet on. They put their butt all the way to the base. I was just going to

- I would say that underneath the bathtub faucet, I would go underneath. This is how I had my first orgasm, spread my legs and do it that way 'cause I didn't have a shower head.

Yeah. But you like, that's, that would be way too much pressure for me. Like that would be overwhelming. Like even if I, I've mastered before hot tubs, I don't ever go right on the like jet stream. I'll always go a little bit to the left or right. And that's why I like shower heads is because I never did pulse. First of all, I don't know what serial killers out there like pulse. I know every sex toy is a pulse method. What is that?

You know, pulses, instead of like vibrating, it's like, oh, yes. Oh, my God. Right. I'm like maybe for foreplay, but there's no way I'm coming with that. No, I need like the direct, constant, consistent stimulation. So I think try getting a good showerhead to start and then see what setting. Get one of those showerheads that has multiple settings and then see which one gets you off. And then that will help you buy the right sex toy for you without wasting money.

So even if you do have to buy an expensive one, because to your point, Sophia, a lot of people go down the rabbit hole of buying rabbit hole. The rabbit, yep. Whatever is doing there.

A lot of people go in the rabbit hole of just like buying sex toys off of friends' recommendations, but like your friend doesn't have your pussy. So before you make any type of monetary investment, I would start with water, which is free. And if you can invest in like a $25 showerhead, do that and then see which one's great. And then drop the 200 on like the fire ass toy that is exactly what you need. Yeah. And I mean, as with anything else, look at reviews, you know, people, there's so many reviews out there.

Excellent. Okay, next question. This is great. We're both going to thrive on this question, I think. At least me. Sophia, I have a bad case of self-sabotaging. You're like, bitch? I'm saying the old you will maybe be able to relate. I have a bad...

I have a bad case of self-sabotaging. I don't allow myself to be happy and I can have a great thing going on with someone and I'll just completely ruin it for fun. I know we're living in a pro-toxic time and it's okay to be a fuck girl, but I've taken it too far. I find myself hurting completely undeserving guys. Am I just a cunt or do I need to get help? This may be stupid, but it's really messing with me and I feel like I'm not the only one who feels this way.

When I'm in a relationship where everything is going great, I start to come up with reasons why it shouldn't be and why it's not.

He's doing something shady. He's hiding something. There's something wrong here. And I will, you know, start a fight or I'll want to look through the phone. And it's self-sabotage because there's no reason or rhyme to why I would assume that. Yeah.

It's essentially just me saying there's no way a relationship could be this healthy and this great. At the end of the day, there's so many different reasons that people self-sabotage. So this is one of those questions where there's like a lot of information that you would have to gather before somebody could tell you how to manage that. I feel like

as much as it's a cliche answer here. A therapist is a great tool in this case. And there are people accessible these days. You can just text a therapist if you don't want to actually go into a brick and mortar or you don't feel comfortable on a video option. So I would treat yourself, if you're committed to figuring this out, I would treat yourself to talking to somebody where you could just tell a bit more of the story. Or Sophia, I mean, maybe she can call you up and give you the backstory and then you can do that.

okay, here's what you actually need to do. Yes. Right. I think, you know, my just quick basic answer is the fact that she's aware that it's self-sabotage is amazing. Cause that's, you know, in itself, just being aware of it is half the battle. Um,

And then I think when you're having those feelings of, oh, my God, I want to like hurt this guy or ghost this guy when he didn't deserve it is maybe just take a breath and just realize when you're about to do it type thing. But being aware is the first part. OK, this is our last question. Hi, I'm a senior in college and I'm kind of over having drunk hookups and one night stands.

Can you talk about how to start casually dating guys without it leading to sex and taking it slow before jumping into bed with him? These one night stands lower my self-esteem and I want to start actually dating some guys. So I am pro fucking on the first date. What's your stance on that? I am pro fucking on the first date if you're a pro.

Like in order to override your biological tendencies and the social conditioning that's placed on a lot of women, whether or not they accept that social conditioning or not, you have to have a ton of awareness and you have to have like a ton of clarity. It's like,

Would I suggest that someone take heroin unless they completely understood what that drug was, what the effects are going to be? And so when you start to feel those pulls, you biologically understand what's happening in your body. So a lot of people, they don't have enough emotional regulation in order to engage. It's a pro activity. I wouldn't suggest that you go and drive a NASCAR if you're not that great at driving to begin with.

So you're great and you have a lot of self-control and a lot of awareness of yourself. Then 100% I'm pro having sex in the first date. If you're not, it's probably better that you give the benefit of time. I love that fucking answer. Like it's just point blank. If you're not a pro, then don't do it. I think anytime I've gone into a date or a hookup, I'm

I am like, this guy may never talk to me again. He might ghost me. It won't go anywhere. And I'm fully prepared for that when I go into things.

And you give, that's the thing too. It's like, it's about managing expectations, right? So if you're aware and you're completely okay with this not being anything beyond what it is, you're never going to over-invest more. Like you don't ever go to a restaurant for a single meal and like pay for five meals. You just pay for it because you're like, I'm here for this one thing. So then can people make the mistake of doing, of going into these like one night stand-esque scenarios, over-investing and like giving more of it

themselves and then leaving, feeling like they got the short end of the stick. But it's like, why did you go to Subway and pay for like a five course meal? We know you'll only get a sandwich in return. I love that analogy. Now trying to like make up the money that you lost. So that's what I mean. Like you have to be so incredibly self-aware in order to success to navigate those relationships. And it's okay if you're not there yet. So she wants to know how to take it slow and not jump in bed with them. Yeah.

To me, it's self, I mean, it's not self-explanatory, but you don't go up to his apartment after that's an easy one. I mean, just, you just tell them, no, you know, I don't. But Sophia, as much as you're saying that, like, it's hard to do. Girl, that was a big, like, wow moment to me when I realized I could tell people no, and they would still want to see me and hang out with me.

I could let people know, like, yeah, I'm not interested in that. Like, if we're going to hang out, this is what it's going to be. And they still showed up. Or I would have a great date with a dude. He would come back to my place. We would make out. And I'd be like, oh, to make us all I really wanted. And so I'd stop it and be like, nah. And then don't get me wrong. They would persist for hours. Like, I got eaten out so many times by dudes who were, like, trying to persuade me to have sex with them. But I'd already been clear that wasn't going to happen.

And in the end, I would always just be like, as I mentioned hours ago, not just doing that. And there was this fear that you would never get the callback. I always got the callback the next day. I mean, let's be real. There is really no better way to get a callback than to blue ball a fucking guy. Like you get his dick hard. I would go as far as to say use a Roman swipe on that thing, which by the way, Shan, if you don't know what that is, it's a wipe that makes the dude last way longer in bed.

and sent him on his merry fucking way with a rock-hard boner. He's going to be blowing up your phone the next day. Check, check, check. Which, by the way, presented by fucking Roman, go to getroman.com slash Sophia, and you can get your first month of swipes for just $5 when you choose a monthly plan. That's getroman.com slash Sophia. But back to what we were saying.

Um, I mean, how did you end up getting these guys to fucking leave? You just, I mean, you open the door and you're like, get the fuck out. All of the activities are complete. You're, it's awkward at that point, right? Like if I'm going to sleep or if I'm like going to go on my laptop now, like the, the, the program activities have completed. We have now, we're now finished. Like there's nothing left for you to do other than like,

Well, and it's not rude either. It's not. There were people I enjoyed being around. I also would have asked them to have left hours earlier. It was just more like, oh, I'll text you tomorrow. Let's try to hang out. Like, have you been to this restaurant? Let's like hit that up on Wednesday. I'm free next then. So there's just like naturally ending the night to say like, yeah, as I, and again, like I managed expectations upfront, which I think about that now. I don't know if I would do that.

still. Cause I used to literally tell people before the date, like I'm going to be a hundred percent clear right now. What I'm really looking for is someone to vibe with, have a great time. I'm not trying to have casual sex, so I'm not going to suck your dick and we're not going to end up like in intercourse by the end of the night. Oh, so you would tell them that before? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I think that was for my safety too, because I lived alone.

So there was something in me that just felt like I don't want anybody who's not very 100% clear where this is and isn't going. And that was my way of protecting myself. But I don't know if I would take that technique up now, but that's what I did. And it worked out. It worked out for me. Yeah.

That's one way to do it as well. And do you think you wouldn't maybe take that technique now because it was overdoing it? Or why do you think? I think it's because I give this advice to virgins. Because virgins are sometimes like, when do I bring up that I'm not going to have sex with somebody? I get that question every day.

And it's like, you know, restaurant says, Chick-fil-A says Chick-fil-A because we serve chicken. They don't call themselves, we don't sell beef. Right. You don't advertise by the thing that you don't do. You market yourself based on your strengths and what's awesome about you. So that the feeling that you have to like be upfront with like what you don't provide is just so counterintuitive to how any other like basic marketing principle works. So I just feel like, and also like,

It's also like a lack of confidence in yourself where you feel like you have to apologize for what you can't provide rather than accentuate what you can. So that's why I'm like, why did I feel the need to do that when I could just be like, you're going to have a great evening with an awesome person. That's what the expectation should be. That's what I said yes to when I said I would meet you at the local fish market. You need to expect more is on you because I never told you anything different. I think it's just, it's a really interesting concept. So,

So if you guys want to hear about fucking penguins or kidnapping, this is the place.

Um, Shan, thank you so much. This was amazing. If you want to find Shan and you absolutely should, cause her Instagram is pop in. Um, it's at Shan booty B O O D Y and I'll link it. Where else can they find you? I'm going to say I put on a book in 2019. That was the best piece of work that I've ever done in my life. It's called the game of desire. Um,

It was such an incredible experience for me. I worked with five women who were consistently getting the short end of the dating stick. And then I transformed them into seductive, incredible, badass, like leading the dating world women. One of them recently got married and bought a house. And so I want to go run and buy the book. What is it called again?

It's called The Game of Desire. And then best of all, you don't even have to buy it. You can just get it for free on Audible. And I read the audio book as well too. And she has an extremely soothing voice, by the way. So everyone check out that book. You're so good at wording, Sophia. Listen, when we talk about you being a pro, you're a pro. Thank you. That's what we talk about the first time.

I always fuck on a first night. Okay, Shan. I've asked to hear you call every woman the hottest woman who's been on the podcast so far. Will you be pissed if I say it next week? No, I won't. It's like a musician who's like, this is my favorite city. It's like it's every single dude trying to get you in bed. You're the most beautiful woman. Damn. Damn. Okay, Shan. Thank you so fucking much. This was incredible. Thank you, Sophia.

Well, Sloots, I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Just a heads up on next week's guest. There is a huge public scandal happening in the media right now. And I mean huge. And my guest is ready to give us her side of the story. And I could not be more excited to give her a platform to speak her truth. So you should absolutely be tuning into that.

that and as always make sure to follow me at Sophia Franklin on Instagram and Twitter new merch is out now at Sophia Franklin calm and why don't you check me out on tick tock because I'm fucking 16 years old again Sophia Franklin zero let's go baby bye sleuths