Michaela Jaé Rodriguez: On Finding Love In Her DMs 57:57

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And I think the easiest thing to do when it comes to your child is to love them and learn about your child. I mean, still, they are a child and you have to be the parent, obviously. But like, learn them, love them and help them. Yes. That's the only way they're going to get through. Somebody got to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay. We are back with another episode of Let's Talk Off Camera. So let's get talking. Woo! Woo!

Today, we will be joined by actress, singer, activist, Miquela J. Rodriguez. Now listen, I always call her MJ. I know. Jan. I know, so we should ask her because we're going to ask her. We'll ask her what she prefers. Because she's my iconic fellow Jersey girl. Pose, wrench, lute, Golden Globe winner. Emmy nominee. Yes.

I just can't wait to talk to her. She's gorgeous, but before we get to her, let's just check in. Let's do a mental health check-in. By the way, Damon, my Damon, directed her in that Saturday Church movie, which was her first leading role. No kidding. Yeah, he's obsessed with her and says to say hello. And by the way, how dare you call Damon your Damon? That is crazy. Well, I'm your Albert, right? Well, you're my gay husband. Oh.

My niece, Gabby, is here. She's doing an internship. Thank you.

Gabby's doing some great true crime research. Yes. I heard that. Yeah. You have a privacy setting on your Google search? All right, you're going to have to clean up her Google because- You could do private searching, yeah. Because what's going to happen is if you're ever faced with a crime, they could be like, this girl looked up how to get rid of a dead body six ways from Sunday. Clearly, she did it. I learned that the hard way.

Not because I was convicted of a crime, but because when we went back through my Google history, when we were doing research for Exhumed, I was constantly Googling how long arsenic lived in a body and how long antifreeze lived in a body. And that might look shady if something were to ever happen to Uncle Mark. Yes. Okay, let's talk about Kyle's workout. Okay.

Oh God. And because obviously he's doing it right now. I can hear the sirens. The sirens are going. No, here's my thing. Years and years and years of people saying, oh, get a trainer. Trainers are great. What I hate about trainers is the fucking small talk.

And it's the talk. It's this. Oh, and the storytelling. And every time. Oh, my God. I'm like, that's the one reason I probably don't have a trainer is because I don't want to have to make small talk. Because you're thinking of like every time he's talking like that's another $10. That's another $10. You should work out with Anna. There is no small talk. There's no talk. Oh, anyway. So Kyle and his trainer, Josh, who I love.

Every time I walk into the garage where our gym is at home, oh my God, there's a whole other sequence of this. And I went to this concert. That's all they talk about. So this past weekend, he's like, I'm working out with Josh.

So I wait. I'm going to wait the hour. And I went in like at the hour thinking they must be done. I look up and I see Kyle through the window, a big laugh. And he's in a lunge. And then I open up the door and I hear Josh saying to him, let's just do a few curtsies and end this. Curtsy lunges are hard. And I'm like, of course, don't know what they're talking about. I'm like, what the fuck is this, a finishing school? Like what's going on in here?

Curtsy lunges will kill you. But a curtsy lunge, but literally it was like the point. I can't take it. It's too much. Well, you should do curtsy lunges. They are killers. Really? Yes. So that's a real thing, a curtsy lunge. Curtsy lunges are a staple of my routine. Not that we ever talk about it, and it just makes me do it. It's good for the thighs. Okay. Good for the thighs. Good for everything. They did a few curtsies. What about your dad now? What's going on? Okay, so...

Your dad is mad at us again? No. Very sweet. I got a phone call this weekend and my dad said, I just want to formally apologize for telling you you gained weight when you came home from college. Oh my gosh. And I was like, Dad, it's okay. I was like, I promise you. It definitely was more going on than just that. And he's like, no, I heard it and you're right. And I feel bad that that happened and I love you. And I was like, okay.

That is really sweet. Isn't that so sweet? It was a very sweet moment. Apologies from parents. So let me tell you. They've done... So it's very rare. And they've done studies on the best thing to provide mental stability for your children as adults. What your adult children want to hear from you is...

I'm sorry. It's like the number one thing. And if I ever do anything wrong ever, I will apologize to my children. Yeah.

Yeah. Just kidding, listeners. Don't get frantic. Look what I got because you told me we got to get rid of the juju. So I've been having some bad luck for the last few years. I'm going to get you... You know what? I'm going to go into my stash and get you a... She's got the real deal. Yeah. So I'm wearing an evil eye, right? Is this what this is called? Yes. That is... Yes. It's the malokia, which is on you. That's called a mati. It gets rid of the malokia. Okay. Somebody put a bad hex on you. Okay. Which is why you're...

and children and all of you keep suffering the way you've been suffering. This is going to take, get rid of that. Do we need to call in the priest, the exorcist? What's going on? Well, I mean, ideally I'd like a priest to come in. Father Vito. Father Vito. We don't need sage. Priests, they'll throw holy water on you.

But the malokia, like the Greeks are pretty on top of it and that mati will get rid of any malokia. You have the good ones you got in Greece, right? I have the good ones in Greece. I didn't say anything but then today in the office, because Kelly yesterday was like, we need to get like the bad juju off of you, you know? And then

Today in the office, Jim Kneebler left on my desk a little envelope and it said, this is for a better summer 2024. And I opened it and it was this. And he said it was from Greece. Like when he was in Greece, he picked up a bunch of them and he's like, I thought you needed it. Yes. I thought that was so sweet. How many Matis did I buy in Greece?

gabs when we were there i have a bracelet yeah but i i bought so many mathis i was like i i was dispensing them like a pez dispenser it was like it was during the pan it was remember when they opened the travel restrictions and you could travel again yeah we went but it still felt like we were in a ghost town like everywhere we went i was like is this okay is everything okay and you know

People were looking to sell their merchandise because it had been at Ghost Town for some time. So I got some good deals on some matis that I will give to you. I will wear them all. You should definitely wear them. I need it. Okay. She's ready. Oh. There she is. Hey, gorgeous. Oh, my God, Kelly. How are you? I am good. I am good.

Okay, so we were just having this whole discussion because when I first came to know you, you were MJ. Yes.

Now, do you prefer Michaela J? Well, now I'm going by Michaela J for my artist name. MJ was like my nickname for so long and people didn't know like what MJ stood for, but I'm like, people should know what it stands for now. People should know. Yes. Because I should, we should all congratulate Michaela J. You have a new project, an album. Thank you.

Yeah. Music's great. Music is amazing. Oh, you got to hear it. Congratulations. We've all been listening to it. We've all been listening to it. Tell me about the genesis of the project. You know, we all know that you can sing. We all know that you have been blessed in every way. But it's called 33. Tell me about it. Yes. So the genesis of the project started about six years ago.

Oh my gosh. It was a while ago. Beautiful ups and downs, as we all know with the music industry. And I felt like there was a story of a girl who, I mean, I consider myself the present day version of her, but this was a girl who had gotten thrusted into the future and was trying to recollect her past so she could understand what her present day self was doing. That's profound, by the way. We just all like,

I mean, we all just stared at each other. That is profound. Very, very profound. And I sometimes feel like she's like an entity trying to get in contact with me now, but that's here. I feel like...

I feel like that was the genesis of it all. And I was trying to figure out ways how to express it. Was it through writing a show, writing a movie? And then I realized I was just like, I have to be honest with myself. Like I've grown up on- Girl, it's an album. It's an album. It's an album. I need to stop fooling myself. So that's where it all came from. And things just kind of sprawled throughout the six years. They just kind of sprawled onward. And I

I came up with so many ideas. I feel like she was speaking through me and things that I had to say about like the state of who Mikayla J33F7 is and why she's coming to send this message. So it's so many things that kind of sprawled out into creating her, but she's fully actualized now. Is there a song that's the most personal to you?

Oh, man. I mean, there's two that are really personal that have become really personal to me now, which is why. Why? When we were writing it, I remember I went to Sophie. She's a co-writer on the song. And I was just like, there's so much stuff going on in the world. And I feel like, you know, there's so much that's happening with girls like me. And I just always have the question, why? Yeah.

Like, why put me in this predicament? Why make these assumptions? Why create these narratives? Why draw these lines, these barriers? Just why? And that's where all of it came from. That's where the writing came from for "Why" and then "Forever," which is about my boyfriend.

Oh, yeah. Well, we're going to talk about the boyfriend. We're going to talk about the boyfriend. But I want to cover – like before we get into the personal life, I want to talk about the stuff first. Now, are you going to make a music video? Yes. There is a music video that is – It's already made. It's already made. It's already completed. Oh, damn it. I was going to volunteer my services as a backup dancer. Well, come on in for the third one. Okay.

Okay, good. Okay, good. And there. She's a good dancer. You don't even have to tell me where it is. I will find you. And I know you will be posing and serving as per usual. I will. Yes, I will be serving. I will. I promise.

So did you have a lot of musical influences growing up and who were they? Yeah, I had a strong music influence. My uncle was like a huge record collector. He had so many CDs. Both of my uncles were collectors. My one uncle was collecting a whole bunch of comic books and my other uncle was like enthralled in music. And I would always sneak into his room and like

steal his like his cassettes or steal his like CDs at the time, which is crazy to even think like I had a CD player. I had a record player and an eight track player and Google that really quick and figure that's how many years old I am. Well, we, yes.

Those things are, they're here still. They're coming back. They're coming back. And I'm really happy about that. Thank goodness. We love a vinyl. Thank goodness. Yeah. That's vinyl is amazing. But did you have a particular, like, um, was there an album that you just listened to over and over again? Ooh. Okay. I mean, I always feel tricky about bringing this person up cause I just don't want it to be like a crazy thing, but their music was so influential. Yeah.

It was off the wall. Michael Jackson's off the wall. It was- The greatest album of all time. Posters in my room. We understand. But that is, I believe, the greatest album of all time. My sister would disagree. She would say Thriller was the greatest album. You know, it's a challenge between those two. Me and my boyfriend were actually watching 40, I think that was called like 40 years of anniversary of Michael Jackson, I think. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. And-

Thriller, I feel like became the pop success, but like Off the Wall was like the brewing of the cauldron. The real music followers loved Off the Wall because that was, I mean, there's not a song on that album that is not, I mean, we used to go, oh my gosh, you would have loved it. We'd go to my Aunt Carolyn and Uncle Tony's. Okay.

My Uncle Tony was such a heavy drinker, but he didn't want to pay for beer anywhere he went, so he had this trench coat. And my Aunt Carol sewed interior pockets of a 12-pack into the trench coat, and he would...

This is like the 70s, you know. So he would drive drunk with us in the car. There were no seatbelts. But we would listen to Off the Wall on a loop, on an 8-track, where he had to flip it over, flip it over in the middle of the album. It was such good times. We had such good times.

So do you have any influences now that you look to, that you draw inspiration from? So I like to, okay, so I think I'm either a straight up millennial or a zillennial. I don't know if I'm on the cusp or not, but I feel like we came into the realm of technology. So I feel like now I'm so accustomed to like the 808s and the pop kind of techno sound. So I think like Chloe Marlowe,

Bailey is a really like a big influence to me. Obviously Beyonce and Rihanna and Mariah Carey. I mean, those, the list could go on with that. Cause we know those girls are like the top girls, but the new girls that are coming in, like I love Dochi and I love, um,

Melanie Martinez. Like there are a lot of, they're very creative with who they are as artists. And I love how they do that. Like, I just love how they do it. Talking to Michaela is like talking to my daughter, Lola. It's so funny. You have the same music taste, the same influences. Although Lola's very influenced by, um, Erica Badu, Amy Winehouse, um,

She loves Mary J. Blige, of course. - Yes, we do. - We can't, you know, we just. - I had Mary on repeats when I was younger. - There is something about, there's a few moments in my life that changed my life. I think Madonna, when she came out with Vogue. - Oh my God. - It was just like, . And then when Beyonce came out with the Formation video. - Yeah.

I became like a militant woman. I, I as well. I was just like, I need to, I need to get in line. I need to, I need to get in line. I,

I sent it. As a matter of fact, my niece is here and I sent the song to her mom and I was like, watch this video, listen to this song and then repeat and then call me back. And let me know what you think. Right. Let me know because we have to get information. Seriously. That's exactly where I was. When she did the Bay Chola, I was like, okay, this is the calling. Okay, great. Yeah.

It's almost like she sends a Beyonce signal into the air and then we all run outside like, all right, where are we meeting? What part of the park? What part of the park? Is it central? Are we going to go to LA? Where are we going?

So you're also in my favorite TV show, Loot, which I just feel like Maya Rudolph can do no wrong. No, you can do no wrong. Do you love Sophia, this character so much? I do. I really do love Sophia. She's the total opposite of me. And I've always wanted to play someone opposite for myself and also just like challenge myself to be cheeky and funny. And like, you know, the, you know, they call them the straight person, the person who just doesn't have any kind of like a,

Like there's no BS straight to the point. Right. And it's dry. You're the voice of reason. Yes. Yes. In that cockamamie show, which I find so...

brilliant and entertaining. I do too. My favorite parts are when we're sharing the space together when we're having the office spaces because that's when you get all of their crazy personalities together and you just don't expect it. You're like, oh man, these are some... And I'm saying the characters. When we jump out, we're all like this. Yes.

But like the characters are so stark opposite of each other. It's just, it's wacky fun. It's wacky fun. It's a fully fleshed out script. Yes. It's a brilliant, brilliant show. Thank you. Do you, so now,

I worked with Maya Rudolph on SNL. That's right. And my big takeaway, besides how talented she is, like she just blows me away, is that she was the one person on the set, like when we were all losing it and couldn't keep it together, she was able to maintain character. Like nothing broke her. Is she the same way on Loot? Yes, she is. Yes, she very much is. Yes, she very much is. I mean, there have been times...

Only small times where I would laugh and I would take her out of it. Maybe just like once and she was like, oh, you're laughing. And I was like, mm-hmm.

That's amazing to me, though, because that's a skill set to be in the brilliance of all of your performances and to never break. It's so rare. It is. And she would reset so quickly, too. I would be in awe of how she would reset and go right to it. But comedy and choose something different every single time. I was just like, this is a master class, taking it.

Yeah, yeah. So I want to pivot because they're – oh, gosh. We love a good pivot. We love a pirouette as well. We need a 17-part pivot.

Special. Okay. So take me back in time to Pose. Because I want to talk about Pose. Yeah. Which to me was a show that had so much heart and so much grit. And I lived in New York City in... I moved here in 1989. Okay. So I remember those days like it was yesterday. Yeah. Take me...

through the audition process, working with Ryan Murphy. - You know, I had been auditioning for a long time and that show along with my first Broadway show were the first opportunities I had to be like in the forefront. I was about to book Once on this Island

And I was in the midst of auditioning for Pose as well. And within the two weeks, I had gotten a call from Ryan. And he was like, I know you're worried. I know the nerves that come along with auditioning, but I just want to let you know you have the part. And I was just like...

He was like, there's no need to worry anymore. You're fine. We do want you to come back in for a test. I think that's what he said. And that was like the call. I remember running downstairs to my mom and my stepdad and crying. And then like going back to the audition that I think it was like either two days later or three days later, going to that audition.

having a testing Billy Porter there. He was like, bitch, what you doing here? And I was like, I'm trying to get the part. He said, well, go in there and book it. I was like, okay. And I'll never forget that process of the audition. I saw everyone in that room that we have good, you know, really good relationships with now. Stephen Canals, Ryan Murphy, Brad Boucher, Brad Simpson, Nina Thompson, like everyone was there. And I was just like,

Okay, these are the people I'm going to be spending most likely

a long time with that and I'm ready for it. - Did you know who they all were in the context of that room? Or are you like me, like, I mean, this is why I was a terrible actor. When I would go into an audition, the biggest casting director in Hollywood could be there and the director, and I would have no idea. And I believe that ignorance is bliss. It's how I come from a place of like, I better not know because then I'll be too terrified.

I feel you 100%. I teeter and totter. Like, I'm the same exact way. I feel like when I went in there, though, I had already had... You got the anointing from Ryan. Well, yeah. And also, I was, like, a huge fan of Ryan Murphy's shows before, especially Glee. So I had already, like, done the research as... I was a theater kid, too. So I was just, like, being so analytical and, like, I need to know these things because when I go in there, I just have to be on point.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also I have to say like when I was an actor, Google didn't exist. There was no IMDB page. - Wikipedia was like just starting. - So, you know, we were talking about this before you logged on. You made history as the first transgender woman to receive a Primetime Emmy nomination. You won the Golden Globe for the same role for Best Actress. - Yeah.

That's like major. It's cementing your place in the history books. Do you think about that? Do you talk about it to anyone? No. Do you have a therapist? I need to invest in a therapist ASAP because I feel like I need to talk about those things. There...

I mean, we all, I'm sure we all know we have imposter syndrome. I believe it's from the environment and how the narrative has been spun and perpetuated just for a long time around trans women. So in my head, I was just like, this is not happening. Like, this is not happening. It's just not, it's not going to happen. But I'm going to still show up. I'm still going to do the work. Like, I mean, this is what I was trained to do. So like, I have to do it. But there was no inkling in my mind that,

I can't even say it, but like making history, like that's just... It's major and you deserve it and you earned it. Yes. Yes. And you're my Jersey sister. So, you know, Jersey goes crazy when somebody from Jersey makes good... You are so right about that. You are so... You are not lying. I was like, I mean, that was the one thing in my heart that I was just like, finally, I just get to show up for Jersey. Like, you know, it just...

Finally, it happened too. I feel like though, you know, that Golden Globe show, like because of COVID, it wasn't televised. Like, I feel like you've got another Golden Globe and an Emmy in you because I want to see you take the stage and I want to see you... Your words to me are always very impactful. What you say matters. You, you know...

I think that you appreciate that you are helping to plow a path that might be more gentle for those that come after you. Not that it will ever be easy, but a more accessible road. And I, I know that you, you know, you're very humble, but I know you're aware of the power you possess. And I would like to see you ascend those stairs again.

look fierce and collect your statue? Hopefully, you know, I will say, Kelly, I would say from your mouth to the universe's ears. You know what? I'm going to say to you that I want that more than anything too. I think...

I would love to finally have a moment to speak and talk to the peers and talk to the people that I love and, you know, have that moment. So who knows? You never know. And a year later, Ryan accepted the, was it the Carol Burnett Lifetime Achievement Award? Yes, it was. Yeah. And he took that moment. I mean, I remember watching it. I got chills. He took a moment to recognize you and he asked the audience to honor you with a standing ovation.

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Off camera for new customers to save $50 on their first order. Terms and restrictions apply. Seaside for details. A year later, Ryan took that moment to recognize you and he asked the audience to honor you with a standing ovation. What did that feel like? It felt like what I would have felt if I would have been able to be in the space in 2020 to accept the award and even more.

Because of him, like me and him have always had conversations. Me and him have always talked on the phone and I knew he was someone that was in my corner. So to see him take that kind of stand. And I mean, it wasn't just me. It was along with Jeremy Pope and Billy Porter. But I mean, winning a Golden Globe, making history and having him say it in that moment, I was.

I was very full. And I felt seen again, yet again. It felt like I got a golden globe again that night. I was just like, I didn't even win tonight, but I feel like a winner right now. So yeah, it felt fantastic. And he's always been running for me. There's that saying that you should align yourself with people that...

like give you your flowers when, you know, like when it's not required. Right. You know, when it's an unrequired thing. Yep. Very, very true. So you said you were a theater kid. Tell me about a little bit about your childhood and tell me how you pronounce the word Newark. Okay.

So, you know, being a girl who I always say I was born in the Bougetto. So it was very bougie, but you know, it's a little big ghetto and I'm not mad at that. You know, straight out of Newark, you know, right off of Avon Avenue. And I say Newark.

Some people will say Newark, you know, to be very clear. I say Newark because that's how I was, you know, born and raised. But yeah, children can be very harsh, especially when they get to their teen years. And yeah, I mean, I will say I was not a harsh kid, but I was very toothy and pointed.

So like going to high school, I really didn't have, I mean, yeah, ever so often I would get like bullied here and there, but like the kids learned very quickly that they couldn't bully me for long. Cause I didn't have to physically put my hands on anyone to let them know not to cross a boundary with me. Like my words alone were like very, they were strong enough for people to know not to overstep. So I feel like my years in high school were,

were fun. And like throughout the years of high school and even in elementary school, believe it or not, like they were really good. I was always a dramatic kid. So like the kids were always...

They were always like, girl, why are you doing all of that? And I'm like, it's simply just me. I mean, that is just who I am. I can't help it. Right. I'm picturing you in like seventh grade going, it's just, this is simply who I am. And you know what? You were so right. Cause I was very, I would tell my teachers that they were like, MJ, what are you doing? I'm doing me. That's what I'm doing. And they were like, oh, okay, well you gotta, you know, do these times tables girls. And I was like, okay, you're right. I gotta get these times tables together.

So, but were you always involved in theater? On and off. Like for the most part of my life, music was a big influence. Like I went to school for music first. I was majoring in music more than I was majoring in acting or parlaying them together. I feel like musical theater came on later when I was in like my mid-teens. Yeah.

And then that's when I kind of like got heavily involved in it because it just encompassed both, it encompassed acting and music. And I was like, well, shoot, if I can't speak, honey, I got to sing it. Like if it's not enough for me to speak it, I got to sing it. So, and believe it or not, that's actually a mantra in the musical theater world. Like if you can't, if words are not enough, then you have to vocalize it through music. And that's how I got into it. It's such a shame. I wish I could sing. Damn it.

You can. Because I couldn't speak it and I couldn't sing it. It's a real tragedy. You're going to dance it on her music video. I'm going to dance it, though, in your video. You're going to see. And we're going to be doing pivots and pirouettes and ba-ba-ba. Yes, I can do it. I can still do a double without falling out. I've lost my triple without falling out. Well, see, you are way ahead of me because, honey, I have to focus heavily. It is a hard one. It's okay. It's okay. So, you know, you...

I've always said that you've gotten a lot of support from your mom. Your mom was very supportive. What advice do you have for, especially in this day and age, what advice do you have for teens who are not

getting support who are identifying as trans. What advice do you have for their parents? I've realized throughout the times of even this question, because it's a very poignant question, I've realized I was giving a lot of advice to the children and realizing that children, whether they be seven or 15, 17, they still are kids.

And it's hard for them, even if they feel like they're being displaced from their parents, it's hard for them to even get out because they love their family so much. And they don't have or have not been able to build because of how society is set up to go against LGBTQAI people, especially trans girls. It's so funny too, because I remember when I first came into self knowingly, I didn't have the words at the time because I feel like

I don't think there were words back then. There was not like a real vernacular for that sort of thing. Exactly. Exactly. So I just, all I knew was the word girl and I never expressed that through words. Instead, I lived it.

Because I was innately just a feminine, just divinely feminine individual, but obviously looking and paying attention and learning. I was just like, okay, so my mannerisms that I innately have are very, very similar to this young girl's right here. Okay, so then we are clearly the same kinds of beings right now.

But how does that match up? Well, I'm only three years old. So and then when I became seven years old and was able to vocalize, you know, I would say, oh, yeah, I'm a girl.

And I mean, my mom would pay no mind to it. Like it was just like, oh, and like, it wasn't like a throwaway. It wasn't like, oh, it'll change sooner on. It's a phase. She never said any of that. She accepted it. She saw it and accepted it. Exactly. And she loved you. Exactly. That was the easy, that's the easiest thing you can do. And you know, you mentioned how could parents help? Yeah.

And I think the easiest thing to do when it comes to your child is to love them and learn your child, like learn about your child. I mean, still they are a child and you have to be the parent, obviously, but like learn them, love them and help them. Like that's the only way they're going to get through. If you don't, they're going to run away because they're going to feel like they have no comfort zone, no trust, no level of space to,

vocalize how they're feeling. If it is possibly actually a phase, they'll never be able to come to you to tell you even that.

Or if it's actually truly who they are, they'll never be able to tell you simply because you've blocked them. So I feel like parents, more than anything, should make sure their child feels safest with them because the world is cruel. Yeah. Well, let me tell you something. You know, we have three kids, right? And Mark and I learned, we mastered, I like to think. Come on, master. But we mastered the art of looking...

Nonplussed. No matter what the information was coming out of our kids' mouths. Because we were so afraid if we had a reaction to anything, it might shut them down and they may feel shame or embarrassment or fear or whatever. So we would, you know...

We would take in the information, no matter what it was. Yep. We would take in the information and just sort of sit with it and say, okay, that's interesting and let's, you know, discuss. And then we would go, you know, upstairs into our room. And then we would, you know, sometimes shove the pillow in our mouth and scream into it so the kids couldn't hear us. Or we would just, you know, yell at each other and blame each other. Yeah.

You know, I think that is the best approach you could ever take. Exactly. Yeah.

You know, I grew up with my mom had given me a, it was all in the expression. And I was just like, oh girl, what happened? Cause I'm reading your expression. And I was someone who would always be like, your expression is saying other than what you're saying, mom. And she was like, oh, you're clocking me. And I was like, I am. No, but like, I think the best, and we obviously had a great relationship that we could do that. But I think that's even another option that you could take. Like any parent could take, it's just like, take it as it is.

Because kids are so sensitive. Like they... Yeah. They are looking for the reaction of any kind, whether it's a disapproving glance, whether it's... Even if it's an outfit you're wearing, they notice if you scan the outfit. So I really learned...

Early on to never have any expression other than serene, calm, sereneness, just open and let me have it. Perfect approach. Lay it on me. Magical approach. Have you seen a lot of change in terms of acceptance in the industry? Okay. I've seen a fluctuation, right? When we first came in,

into knowing and I'll say with Laverne Cox being the first trans woman on times and being the first trans woman to be a series regular and nominated for a prime time. I mean, like that was like the first step and that's where we were going. Then we had a lot of trans women coming out about who they were and, you know, speaking out.

Then Transparent came and that looked like even a tremendous jump. Like that was a tremendous jump. When Pose happened, I felt like that was the precipice. Like that was the peak. Right. And those times I saw a lot of change happening.

But in my spirit as a person who is very cognizant of just climate politically on any front, I knew that there was an underbelly that was happening and I knew that there was another type of change that would happen. So as of right now, I see a different kind of change. And this is the kind of change that I obviously fight back against through art.

I would love to see more change happening quickly in this climate because of how fast

our rights are being taken away versus when Pose was, when we were in the time of Pose, we were on, we were on the up and up. There was so much love. There was so much upliftment that people were being educated about trans women. People were open, you know, and I feel like now the paradigm has shifted. So I feel like there's so much more that could happen.

I feel I will not stop. And I don't think any of my sisters will stop. I also would love for Hollywood to open its arms like they did when we were in a space where we felt comfortable. Now I don't feel like the doors are swinging open like how they used to. And I would love for that to happen. You know, it's so interesting, Albert, you can weigh in on this because I'm going to take you back in time.

Remember when they were finally granting gay marriage in New York? Yeah. And we were having these discussions because we were all like, at least we, I was very celebratory because I thought for sure Albert and Kyle would finally get married, which spoiler alert, they didn't. But anyway, yeah.

Albert was the one that cautioned me. He said, there's a pendulum. He goes, and anytime the pendulum swings this way, there's going to be a counter to the pendulum and people are going to swing back in a more extreme way. And I think that's what we are experiencing right now. I feel like the pendulum is swinging to this other extreme where rights are being denied. And, and,

I've been reading King, A Life by Jonathan Ige. It's the Martin Luther King comprehensive biography. Oh, and like the breakdown. Yeah. And-

Yeah, and it's so interesting because for every right that was granted that took an additional 15 years to actually come into fruition, then 15 rights were stripped away. And you watch this pendulum and it's agonizing. And reading about the past, present day, right now, it feels so familiar. You know, I think...

That we as human beings grow accustomed to cycles and that's why we fall into them so easily. I would love for us collectively to jump out of the cycle and try something new. I just don't know when and how that's going to happen. The only way I know it can happen is if I'm a part of the movement, but like, I'm only one person, you're only one person, you know, and I,

Yeah, I just, in this time, though I'm not fearful or scared, I also am a little lost as to where the trajectory for our stories when it comes to queerness, like how that's being taken.

I always say to myself, like, I never want to be like the, the stereotypical best friend who is the queer best friend who is always, you know, the life of the party to lift things up. I always want to be the person that's humanized. And even though it may be too normal for some people to even fathom, because I've realized there are some people who would, who will watch a loop, don't know that I'm trans, find out that I'm trans, won't watch it because it's

they've watched it. Isn't that, it's fascinating, right? It's so fascinating to me. And I'm just like, were you so normalized at the fact that you didn't know and you were relating to this character? And the moment you found out that I was a part of the queer community, you were like, I'm stripping this away because I can't believe, I cannot believe. So I always think that there is something when people are triggered by queer people, trans people, uh,

I always think that there is something unresolved within that person. Same here. Because otherwise, why would it matter to you? Girl, I think the same thing all the time. I'm just like, why are you so upset? I become the therapist. I'm like, what do you need to get through and work through? And I'm like, oh, I'm not the therapist. That's your problem. That's right. Like I said before, you really are a role model. Yeah.

And not just for trans women, but for women. Yes. I really think you are just a beautiful example of how to achieve the highest heights and

maintain your humility, work hard, and just always, you always say and do the right things. But does it get exhausting being a role model? Well, naturally she's a giddy girl. She loves being positive. There are some people who are like, girl, you're a little bit too happy. And I'm like, well, I can't do nothing about that, y'all. So, I mean, this, I will say I love being a little bit of an auntie and a mama bear. Yeah.

So this kind of responsibility, the constant like, you know, upliftment or just even education, it doesn't bother me that much. When I say that much, it doesn't bother me at all. This is what I stepped into. I've always wanted a responsibility like this. The exhaustion comes, if there is a tinge bit of exhaustion, it comes from the people who...

Just choose like they just choose to be ugly and mean and wicked. Like that's the exhaustion of it all. But for the most part, I'm happy where I'm at. I'm not I'm not mad. I'm thankful. I'm alive. And I just hope the one thing I hope to continue to do is just keep influencing people.

around the world, especially women, so that we can like come together and create a coalition. Because that's my main goal is like a coalition of women. Women need to stop being cruel to one another. Yes, we do. It is a sisterhood. Yes. So what is your dream role and who would your dream co-star be? Oh, I didn't expect the co-star. Okay. I do prefer

pray and wish and hope at some point in my life. And I'm just speaking this to you and in the world that I get either a supporting or leading role.

In a Marvel universe, in the MCU. Oh, my gosh. Love. Yeah, great. Love that. I've been speaking to it, hoping, praying. It's a hard one to get into, but I'm going to get it at some point. And I... Oh, for sure. Prayers. You never know. I wish Michael was here. I wish my son was here and he would tell us which character, because he is such a comic book person and he knows the origin stories of every character ever in the history. And he would be like, oh, well, you should play...

I don't know. I don't know any Marvel characters. He would make me so happy because we would go on a nerd binge because I am a nerd. He most likely would say Psylocke. I mean, I'm just speaking that out there. Okay. I'll find out what he says. Here's what I think. Ready? Okay. Go with me. I think you should do the Bodyguard remake. You play the Whitney Houston character. Okay.

And I think Hemsworth plays Kevin Costner. I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take it. I think Hemsworth is a fantastic actor. I think we would execute that...

Just like T's cross and I's dotted. It'd be good, right? Don't you think it'd be good? Who's your dream co-star? Okay, who's your dream co-star? Jan is tired of my... Who's your bodyguard? I feel like my dream co-star would be... There's three. Can I say three? Yes. Okay. Yes.

It's either Shirley Rowe. I mean, I mean, I mean, yes. She's outstanding. And also I love her. Viola Davis. Oh yeah. Yeah. Another, another, you're naming our, like our favorites. They're my everything. And also last but not least.

my sister Zendaya. I feel like we would do some, we would, we would work some magic. I don't know what it would be, but it would be Thelma and Louise. I would do it. I would do it in a heartbeat. I would do it in a heartbeat. That'd be amazing. Kelly, you are putting some great things out into the universe. I want to run a studio. I mean, I mean, honestly, if I'm being honest, I want to run a studio. I was like,

I may look like an innocent talk show host, but in my mind, I'm like laying the groundwork. It's a slow, it's, you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. This is true. This is very, very true. And, but I, whenever you do just, you know, just I'm here. No, I, oh, I got, I got it. Don't worry. I have my list. I have my list of friends.

Okay, so we touched on it before. We want to get into it. Yes. Tell us about your boyfriend. I read that you're very much in love. Yes, I am. I don't know the details. Give me everything. Okay.

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Tell us about your boyfriend. I read that you're very much in love. I don't know the details. Give me everything. So, crazy enough, me and this beautiful man, we met on Instagram, which is crazy because...

Instagram is how everybody meets now. Isn't that crazy? And I remember, I mean, honey, I was on OkCupid. I was on all of these places, right? Did he slide into your DMs? He surely did. He slid right into the DMs. What did he write? What did he write?

did he write? Yeah. What did he write? How did you know? Like, how did you know you had the DM is a question I always ask myself because I never know that I have DMs. This was in the beginning of Pose when I wasn't getting a whole bunch of DMs, right? Like it was in the beginning. So certain people were like, oh, she's on billboards, but we don't know what the show is yet. Right? Like it was because, you know, they put the billboards out before the show. So I got a message from him and I was like, who is this?

handsome man. So I went on his page and at that time he was a thirst trap. I mean, he was in the gym and he was, you know, working out and I was like, oh, oh, he's really handsome. Well, he's not going to do anything for me because he's thirst trapping women. I'm going to go into the DMs anyway. So I go into the DMs.

I go into the DMs and he writes this beautiful message of like, I'm so proud of you, everything that you have done. I see the work that you're doing and the foundation you're laying down for a community that's not heard for. And congrats on Pose. And at the time, like Pose, I don't think was out. The first season wasn't out. I think he saw the rollout of like trailers and everything. Right, right, right. So I was like, okay, well, he doesn't know, you know, what's about to happen. So he knows me before the stuff.

So I hit him up and I think I texted him like, oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. Like just trying to be like. You kept it cool. You kept it low key. Yeah. Tried to keep it low key. And then he sent me a video of him like sending like an uplifting message. Like, how are you doing, Michaela? How's that like Jersey swag going? I hope you're doing well. I just wanted to lift you up on anything that's happening in your day. And I was like.

He sounds too good to be true. At a certain point, were you like, is he a psychopath? Could he be like the talented Mr. Ripley? Or even catfished? Yes. Is this not a real person? Everything you're saying was right at the frontal lobe. And I was just like, boy, please, boy, bye.

So the very next day I went back and said the DMs and I was like, well, what's your name? I need to know who you are. I mean, I just have to know. Do you want to go? Like what? He was like, I would love to go out with you. I would love to take you out on a date. And at that point, and we were talking for a while. Let me be very clear. We were talking. You were going back and forth. You started noticing that he was maybe normal. Yes. Like for about, I would say six, maybe months.

It was a long time. Like, and this was like, I still would have, if I were you, I would have called me as like your random contact. So I could have been at the restaurant just to make sure, you know what I mean? I feel you. I had, and let me tell you, Kelly, I had my friend Rayvon right on speed dial. I was just like, I was like, just make sure that this boy ain't crazy. Cause we've got a lot to lose.

And then we just started constantly talking, FaceTiming every single day. I mean, we FaceTimed. We hadn't met either because I was flying back and forth. And we were FaceTiming back and forth for about, I would say like six months. And then we decided to meet. This was right after Little Shops of Horror. We were talking in that time.

Right after Little Shop of Horror ended, October 25th was the day we met in person in Jersey and had our first date in person.

Okay. And where did you go? We went to the Soho house. I wanted to be, you know, I, you know, I, I wanted to be the upper, you know, epsilon girl. I was like, I can do this myself. I'm going to invite you. I have a membership. I'm going to take you to my spot. I'm going to take you to my spot. And he came to my spot and showed out. Um, he, when I say showed out, I was like, I'm going to pay for the bill because he was like, no, no, no, no, no. And I was like,

What did you say? He said, no, no, no, no, no. I got this. And I said, okay, well, you do what you got to do. Good girl. You don't. I'm very staunch advocate for women never paying the bill. I feel like we have enough bullshit that we have to go through that we should never pay the bill. It feels like sometimes when we do go into these dates, like that is the, they want more than anything. Most of them want more than what they've asked for. And I think even paying the bill is like,

No, it's not a guarantee for anything. Exactly. It's like, no, I just want to see what you're going to bring to the table. It's the only way in which sexism works in our advantage. I just feel like, it's like, I am fine when people will be like, oh, you're being sexist. You're being, I'm like, fine, call it whatever it is. I'm not paying for the bill.

You know, until like- What about door opening? What about door opening? Open the fucking door and pull my chair out. Yeah, I'm a strong advocate of that as well. And he does that all the time. He always pulls my chair out and he opens the door. So I'm here for that 100%. Yeah, open that door for me, baby. Because also for me, that is like the first, I mean-

And this will just be this one instance because this might be too much. But I feel like that's the inkling. That's the first step to a nice foreplay. I don't know. Yes, it is. That's all part of it. It's like, look at me. I treat you like a lady. This is how you deserve to be treated. You're my queen. I'm going to be good to you. If there's none of that, that is, to me, red flags. It's a waste of time.

Does he know the song that's about him? He does. I did. I told him. Because it's like the last song is like the finale. It's a conglomeration of Michaela J, model 33F7, finally recollecting her past and realizing that the whole time she thought she was being chased, it was actually her.

the one guy that was actually trying to let her know that he was chasing her and wanted to communicate to her that I've been working on you. This, you are the 33rd model, but there have been 32 models that have just not made it because of the world and you made it. And I finally got to see how you made it. So forever was for him. And we've endured a lot, not as far as arguing, cause we never argue, not as far as like hardships, but

We've endured a lot from the public eye and how we've managed to grow and rise above. Keep the outside forces outside. True.

You ain't lying about that. I mean, that is, I've been married a long time. You keep those outside forces outside. You have to. It's like you don't let bats in your house. No. You know what I mean? We don't want those. They suck your blood, honey. They give you red beans. That's right. We don't want that. So do you think that you're going to, like, do you talk marriage? Do you talk about having a

Family, all of it. Yes, we always, I mean, it's a topic on my head all the time because I'm like, when are the kids going to get here? When are we going to have kids? How many are we going to have? You said you wanted four in the beginning and now you want one. Thank God.

You know, like, we talk about these. Yeah, but once you have one, you're going to want more than one. Oh, for sure. I know for me, like, I want one and I know I'm going to want my whole tribe. Like, I know that for me. I do know I need just to test it out real quick. Right. You know, just to get the footing. He...

We talk about that. We talk about marriage all the time. I think we're waiting for marriage because we want it to be big. Like, well, when I say we. You want a big wedding. I want it to be big. Yeah. Yes. I always say it's up to the bride, right? I eloped because the idea of a wedding was very. It's a lot.

And don't forget, Mark and I got married on a, our characters married each other on a soap opera. And that was like a 16 day affair. And I was like, let's never do this in real life. Because that seemed, it was just so exhausting, the whole thing. Yep. So for us, we were like, we did that. Now let's run away, the two of us in a lope. But I feel like it's,

It's not up to the groom. It's the bride's day. It is. Bride's day. It's very, very true. It's very, very true. I mean, kudos and shout out to all the grooms out there. We appreciate you, but just let us have our moment. You know? Yeah. It's a huge deal. I got to tell you, I love talking to you. Same here. If you need anything...

wedding planning advice, child rearing advice. When I run the studio, you're going to be my first phone call. I'm going to get you the name of the character that Michael says you should play in a Marvel comic.

And next time a Hemsworth is on the show, we should talk to him about the remake of The Bodyguard. The Bodyguard. I think it's a good plan. And Zendaya for Thelma. And Zendaya for Thelma and Louise. I'm just sold. I mean, I'm here for Hemsworth anytime because he's a fantastic actor and he's great to look at. But I know that me and Zendaya would just murder. Yeah.

It'd be the best looking. First of all, it would be like, it would be a cast where the cast is so good looking, the audience members are punching themselves in the face. Thank you very much for that. You know, I appreciate that. Thank you for doing our humble podcast. We love talking to you. Check out Michaela J's new album, 33, and don't forget to watch Loot, an American horror story, Delicate, or as I like to call it, Delicate. Delicate.

Thanks, Michaela. We love you. I love you too, girl. Thank you for having me. Bye. Bye. I love her. That was great. She's great. Always great. What'd you think, Al? I mean, I'm obsessed. Obsessed. I've always been obsessed, but I'm obsessed. I told you we should do like a 19-part series with MJ. The only thing that I always love, that always kills me when someone's in a relationship like that, and they're like, we never fight. We never fight. I'm like, really? Really? Tell me about that. How does that work?

Could you imagine a relationship without fighting? No. I mean, my gosh. He sounds dreamy. Yeah. He does sound dreamy. He's a gentleman. She's winning on every front. She's an incredible actress. I love it. She's an amazing comedian. She's a brilliant singer. She's just like really good at everything. Yeah. We love her. Well, that's it, Jan. Yes, that's it. Now, how can people watch us, Jan? Well, they can't watch us. Yes. But our...

Our podcast is so layered, they can watch us in their mind's eyes. They can see us on Instagram, though. Oh, they can see us on Instagram. That's right. They can see us on Instagram on Let's Talk Off Camera. They can slide into our DMs. They can slide into our DMs. Is that at Let's Talk Off Camera? Yes. Okay. I did not know we had an Instagram account. You do. I know. You should follow us right now while you're here. I'm teasing. Don't make...

Do not make Gabby follow us. We're going to actually film a video right now of you and Albert for our Instagram that people can tune in. Are we going to do a physical video? No, it's a best friends quiz. Oh, I love that. Okay. Where else can people listen to us, Jan? On Apple, Spotify. Actually, just wherever you listen to your podcasts. But since we're the only one, you know.

Okay. And Albert, do you want to say goodbye to our audience? Goodbye, audience. And what else? Goodbye, Richard. Can't wait to talk off camera next week. Bye. Bye.

Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Melojo Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music. From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Hensuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Juliet Desch.

from Goat Rodeo. Our team is Cara Shillen, Megan Nadolski, Max Johnston, Isabel Kirby McGowan, and Rebecca Seidel. Additional sound design by Terrence Bernardo. This show is powered by Stitcher.

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