Shannen Doherty: The Last Thing She's Going To Do Is Lie 49:55

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Those days of me being in my teens or my 20s where the National Enquirer gets to write fake stories about me, they're long gone. And I'm a girl with stage four cancer with possibly a very limited amount of time. The last thing I'm going to do is lie. Right. Somebody got to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay. We're back. You should say this one, Jan. Yeah, Jan, do it. We're back with Let's Talk Off Camera, so let's get talking. Jan, I like it. I've been talking.

Okay, today we have, listen to this, joining us is an actor, a producer, a director, an author, a fellow podcaster, Shannon Doherty, ladies and gentlemen. Do I need to list her credits? Do you want me to list her credits, Jen? I mean, we all know her. I know, but okay. So for anyone who is newly born, like a newborn baby...

Like, Roz's baby, Roz's impending baby who's not, hath yet not been born. She was on Little House on the Prairie when she was just a tiny newborn baby actress.

Uh, Heather's. Oh my gosh. Heather's. Heather's is a movie that I watch every time. It's, I don't care at what point I pick up. If the, if it's half over, if it's the, if, if there's 12 minutes left, I still stop what I'm doing and I watch Heather's. So good. Beverly Hills, 90210, of course, which made her a household name. Da-na, da-na, da-na, da-na, da-na, da-na.

Charmed. If I'm being honest, I stopped watching Beverly Hills 90210 after she left. So I don't know what happened. What happened after she left? I kind of feel like I stopped watching after she left. Yeah, she left and that was it for me. I was like, no more Brenda. No more Kelly. Mall rats. I mean. Come on. There's so, I mean, everything. A lot. All of it. She's done everything.

Last time I saw her, I was trying, I want to set her up on a date. I know. You said that on the show. Yeah. Or maybe you said it to her in a commercial break, I think.

Yeah, either way, I don't know. I just remember, like, I've been, it's hard because she's in LA. She's also, we can talk to her about this, but she's also gone for, like, the bad boys. It's like, we need to get her out of that. No, no, no. I, like, and she gave me an age range. I know some older guys that are well off and they're not bad boys. Okay. Yeah.

They're just looking for a good girl. A good girl. Yes. Oh, wait. I have to tell you something. Speaking of good girls. Yes. Tell me. Okay. So, you know, I've told you that my dad likes to give reviews of the podcast. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I was thinking about your dad. So we sat down. We sat down. My dad loves to give a review every week. He's an avid listener. He loves the show. Loves you, Albert, too. Like, very much. I'm a big fan of his. Yes. He took... Took a...

Oh, yes.

like a reality show. This is real. It's a confession chamber. Yes. But I did think that when you started talking about it. And then Glenn at the table said, well, did you hear how she told the story about Caden walking in on us? Now we're at a table. No. Glenn. Abort. And I said, Glenn,

I'm like, "Glenn, what are you doing?" I go, "We don't need to talk about sex in front of my dad." And then Glenn said, "Well, you already talked about it on the podcast." I go, "It's different. It's really different." It's different. It's like a disembodied person. Nobody's really knowing what's going on here. But your dad heard the walking in on story. That was like one of the earliest podcasts. I know. He didn't like that either. But does your dad have a problem when I talk about sex? No.

It's just weird. I do find it to be weird to talk about sex while I'm in front of him. I don't care about talking about it when I'm not in front of him. Yeah, right. He's just like, it's weird. Like Glenn keeps bringing it up and I'm like, stop talking about it. He's like, you're the one who blasted it. I'm like, okay.

This is why I'm so grateful my parents don't even know what podcasts are. I'm so thankful. I mean, I'd be getting bombarded with daily. You would. Oh, my gosh. I'd like to pick a bone. Yes, bones. So many bones. Can I pick a bone? Pick your bone. I think you know the bone that I'm about to pick. Shut up. Go ahead. You can explain. It's starting now. Go ahead. Just explain it, and then I'll pick the bone.

Every year on Memorial Day weekend, which is a cursed weekend out in the Hamptons. I don't mind telling you. It is usually, with the exception of last year. And last year was a fluke. It was, it never happens. It doesn't. Usually it is the worst weather ever.

We can all agree it is the wasted weekend in the Hamptons where people spend four hours sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the LIE to go huddle around a fire pit at somebody's house in the freezing rain. Freezing. And then talk about how it's Memorial Day and isn't this great?

And every year, Albert has something called Sausage Fest, a.k.a. the Meat Gala. Renamed this year. Renamed because it is the Met Gala of sausage festivals on Long Island. It is a who's who. Well, you coined it the Met Gala of Long Island. Yes, and you took it. And Kyle morphed it and now calls it the Meat Gala. The Meat Gala.

It is the singular event of the Hamptons. Everybody who's everybody is there. Yeah. And usually one of the first to reply in RSVP attending is sitting at this table. Yeah, but usually what do I reply? If I let something better come along. Yes, I always reply maybe still waiting for a better invite. Right.

But that's like my joke. This year, there hasn't been a reply yet. It's been an unresponded reply. Very suspiciously. And then a little nugget of information got dropped last night as an aside, as if I wouldn't catch the information from said person's husband that they may not be in New York for the weekend. Yes. We are planning on going to Palm Springs. Yeah, wow. So then I...

sat with this information overnight I went I talked to Kyle about it if I had therapy yesterday I probably would have brought it up oh my lord do you feel that the meet gala will be missing an essential character you've never not been there

That is incorrect. You only missed the one time that it got canceled because of bad weather. Did you shift the weekend? No. One time. It shifted once. Yes. By the way, it didn't used to always be on Memorial Day weekend. It was always Memorial Day Saturday. Untrue. Untrue. Well, we're going to have to discuss alternate ways. She doesn't even need

Anyway, so why does it matter? I don't eat a single sausage. I'm the sausage. Well, last year there was vegetarian sausage. By the time I'm there, any vegetable or vegetarian-like product is devoured in the cocktail hour. Albert will have 10 to 12 people staying with him. Okay? Yeah. So I'm the 13th man to show up. And by the time the 13th man gets there, anything not meat-based is devoured and eaten. So I...

And I'm not kidding when I say this. I live on hot dog buns as my meal. And Claire's coleslaw. But like, let's just for a second, just interrupt for a second. A vegetarian sausage. It was made for Kelly because she is like the co-host of Sausage Fest. Now I'm the co-host of Sausage Fest.

Oh my God. And as the person who, you know, throws the event with me every year, is the first person there. These are lies. The last person to leave. And the gate won't open this year. And it'll be a very sad, it'll be a whole new Ray. We'll have to figure it out. I mean, maybe we'll do life-size posters of you and Mark. A life-size poster of her. Maybe she'll put the meat dress on her. The Gaga meat dress.

You know what you can do? Oh, that's a great idea. You can do what my parents... My parents used to have this game. And I did not realize... Like, you know how kids play pin the tail on the donkey? My parents had pin the boobs on the lady. No, no, no. And she's like in a bouffant. She's wearing her 1960s panties. And they're just tits that you would like... And we would... My cousins and I would play this. Like...

No big deal. Not seeing anything wrong with that. So I'm going to, you're welcome in advance, I'm going to have Mark take a life-size nude photo of me with just a pair of 1960s panties and you guys can put hot dog buns over my nipples. Oh!

Doesn't that sound like fun? Sounds great. That's a fun game. Sounds great. You can pay tribute to me and make fun of me all at the same time. And then we'll figure out my grudge at a certain point in time. Yes, exactly. Oh my God. Come on. Okay, she's ready. She's ready. Oh great. Ah,

There she is. Hi. Hi, gorgeous. How are you? I'm so happy to see you. So our podcast, I don't know how your podcast operates, but our podcast is off camera. I mean, we're looking at each other through the computer screen so we can talk to each other, but we don't film it. It doesn't get released. It's just our voices. I would have left my weave off. Okay.

I'm like, oh my God, I was struggling, snapping it on. I'm like, no. That's why it's called Off Camera. Let's talk Off Camera because it's just so much. Oh, I love it. Yeah. You'd be amazed at how many people we will dial in with and they're in bed or they're

in a car picking up their kids from school. It's a very low maintenance podcast. Man, why didn't I like do mine like this? Because you haven't hosted a talk show for 180 years.

That's exactly correct. So are you, is this your podcast studio? Where are you? I am in my house and I do my podcast on that dining room table back there. It's so elegant. Like I love, you live in California, right? Yes. Yeah. Here I'll just keep pivoting and showing you my house. So do you play the guitar? I do. I did not realize. Did I know that? Did you know that Shannon plays the guitar? Nobody knows that. You're like, I

I never tell anyone because then people want me to play and then I get really nervous and I can't do anything. I bet you're really good at it. I'm not. I'm very beginner, but I've been obsessed with guitars forever and like how beautiful they look. And my friend is the owner of Gibson. Oh, wow. So it's really easy for me. Like I'll see a guitar and be like, Cesar, I need this guitar. He's like, it's on its way. Cesar, Cesar who owns Gibson. Why don't you date him?

Because he's married to one of my best friends. Oh, never mind. Does he have a brother? You know, I'm always looking for you. I'm still on the hunt. I'm on the hunt. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think it's hard for somebody like me, in my personal opinion, because it's hard to go into dating someone when you know that they might have an expiration date. I think that – and I don't think men handle –

death and illness, most men, I don't want to generalize and say all men, but they don't handle any of that as well as women do. So I think I'm a very hard sell. Well, I disagree that you're a hard sell, but speaking of your health, how are you? What are the updates? The updates are basically the same. It's kind of like being...

a guinea pig on a wheel. You know, you just keep on spinning the wheel and you hope that your protocol lasts a really long time and you get the most out of it. But inevitably, a protocol will stop working and then you have to move on to the next. And then when you move on to the next, there's a whole other new set of things that you deal with. Like the one I'm on now, it's probably one of the harder ones because

Physically? Yeah. Does it make you feel very sick? Because you look, when I'm looking at you, you look beautiful.

Well, thanks. It's because I thought that there was, you know, videos. Had you seen me 30 minutes prior, you would have been like, oh. My protocol is very plastic surgery focused. We had this conversation. Yeah. Yes. I've got the guy. By the way, I met with him. Oh, you did? Yes. I met with him and my friend Chris, who was there in New York, like one of the, not the last time I saw you, but the time before. Yeah. We went both.

Both got consults. Yeah. And the funniest thing was that your guy said to my friend, he was like, I would have to gut you like a fish all down your neck. What? Like a pig. Gut you like a pig is just too much. Too much. Too much. And then with me, he was like, okay, yeah, we can do a really great job. But then he handed me what the bill would be and I was like… Oh, the bill is… There's a reason I'm doing 87 podcasts a day. Yeah.

I am locked in my son's former bedroom for the next 16 to 84 months right here just doing podcasts. You know, if it pays for a guy like that, why not? He's really special. What you need to do is… Okay. I know you like bad boys. I know that you do. Not anymore. You swear?

I swear, I swear. I'll give you an example. I had somebody recently come into my life, reenter my life, and

I, within 30 minutes, saw a red flag and just retracted and went, nope, I can't do this anymore. Great. Good. Here's what I think you need. And I talk about this a lot. So I'm going to give you an example. I think he's too old for you. Listen, I'm okay all the way up to 80. He's a delightful, delightful man. And he's like, Kelly, you know nice girls. Can't you set me up with a nice girl? Yeah.

And then you were on the talk show like a few months later and you're like, don't you know any nice guys? And I was like, I think I know a nice guy. He's a New Yorker though, but he's rich. That's what you need. You need a rich, financially stable, not threatened by your fame, not intimidated by your fame, or...

He's older. He's established. He presents very normal. I've never seen a dark side to this guy. And I think he's got the cheese to cover Dr. Rosenberg. Yeah.

Well, I'm sold. Just on that alone, I'm sold. How old is he? I want to say he's in his early 70s. It's hard to tell. Oh, that's fine. But I'm 52 or 53. I can't really remember my own age. Yeah. That's fine. No, but he's like, he's a young, he's very youthful. Right. But it's like, you know how you never...

When I meet a single guy that says, don't you know any nice single girls? I never do. Everybody's always taken. And it was one of those moments where he said, don't you know any nice single girls? And then you, I saw a couple of months later and you're like, don't you know any single guys? And I was like, I know one single guy that's straight. If you were gay, I have 85% of the time.

men I could set you up with. I mean, I'm okay with marrying gay also. I'm open opportunity here. Okay. If you'll marry gay- It's more important than anything else anyway. Yes. I agree. I'm a little self-conscious because I have so many scars from surgery that it's like, how do you explain that? No, that isn't from giving birth. That's from reconstruction surgery. Right. It's

You know, you just start to feel as a woman, I think, very insecure about yourself. Not that I was ever – I've never been secure with myself. It's probably in my 30s, like mid-30s, I got very into myself. Confident. In the sense of like, okay, I'm in shape. My skin looks good. My hair is good. Everything's working for me. And then 40s, it all fell apart again and I got very insecure. So Marcy Klein told me something really interesting. Okay.

So Marcy's got a really, and I want to quote her accurately. She said, women fall apart in their 40s.

And then they become reborn in their like mid to late 50s and they rise like a phoenix out of the ashes. Wow. And then she said men completely fall apart mid 70s. And basically it's, they just never really recover from that moment. They just, it's just like a swirling spiral downhill, but it's like a slower spiral.

Listen, I don't hope that on all men, but there are a few particular ones that I really hope for. Don't you find it odd that dickheads and assholes never get cancer? Yeah. I watch people who live a far unhealthier life than me and who are not karmically aware and

aren't, you know, they're definitely not people who believe and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And yet they like coast through life and they don't get sick and they're fine. And I'm always, I have these conversations, not on a daily basis, but a weekly basis with God going like, can you just explain how this works? And what I finally had to wrap my head around in order to accept like my stage four diagnosis and everything that I go through with it

is that it happened to me because...

of the platform that I have and because I can help others. Right. Now that's a gift within itself. Sure is. It definitely sucks because like I was saying earlier, the protocol I'm on, it's like you take growing pains and then you multiply it by a hundred and that's what you feel four days out of every single week. So for four days, I'm like, Oh, I can't walk. I can't do this. I can't do it. It's very painful. Right. Um,

But what day are you on right now? Like where are you in the pain aspect? I'm on day three of the pain. I'm sorry. But it's okay because it's dissipating a little bit. And, you know, again, there's always reminders, right? So I don't know if you can hear, there's helicopters circling right now because I just got the alert on my phone that there's a fatal car accident at the corner of my street. Oh, God. And so you hear that and you go, what a…

What am I complaining about? Right. Like, I am so lucky. It's insane. And also the fact that I've had stage four and I've had it since 2019 and I'm relatively still healthy and still around, right? We're all just knocking on the wood. Yeah, knocking on some wood. Do you – but does it get exhausting for you when –

I'm assuming that people must constantly come up to you and tell you their health journeys and then try to place all of their hopes and dreams for themselves onto you.

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I'm assuming that people must constantly come up to you and tell you their health journeys. I would think that would be a heavy cross to bear, a heavy burden. It is. Uh,

I think, again, you have to weigh it and you have to say, I'm still here. This is my purpose in life. This is what God chose me for specifically. It wasn't acting. That just catapulted me to the point where people would know and could listen to my voice. But this is what I'm actually here for. And I truly, deeply believe that. And-

Because of that, that is, you know, it's definitely my burden to bear. And, you know, it gets rough when people say,

And this happens to me quite a bit, interestingly enough, when they say, my mom had exactly what you have and she's dead. And I'm like, oh God, how long did she have since diagnosis? And they're like, five years. And you're like looking at the date going, oh, I'm creeping up on that. That gets very hard. Or even just the, like my mom asked me last night,

to, she was like, who was the surgeon who assisted your surgeon for your reconstruction? He was in New Orleans. And I was like, mom, I can't remember his name right now. And I'm in a lot of pain and I'm just trying to relax. And it was because someone that she knows, her daughter is going in, but then you have this like selfish moment where you're like, I'm just trying to relax. And then you're like,

But that person isn't relaxed. So go ahead and make those phone calls and find out the best hospital in New Orleans. Find out the best surgeon for this person. It's going to take you 30 minutes and just do it. But yes. No, I understand what you're saying though. It becomes a lot. There's just- It becomes a career. It becomes a career. And some days I would assume, and I don't know this-

But I would assume that some days you just want to be anonymous and go through your pain and your suffering quietly and maybe have people care for you. You know, I'm going to send you this card. I picked it up in Palm Springs, of all places, at this funny gift shop. The card said, when life hands you lemons, I promise not to tell you a story about how my mother died of lemons.

I think it's the funniest card I've ever seen in my life. Oh my, I mean, just even if you snap a photo of it. No, I'm going to send it to you because I feel like I'm going to put it in another card so you can save it. So you can use it when you need it. I'll probably frame it to be honest. That's like, because it's such a, it's also kind of an interesting little reminder. Right. Um,

for myself, that's an amazing card. You know, I think the thing is to get away, like I was feeling the last month, I was definitely struggling mentally. I think I was extremely depressed. I couldn't really get out of like my own head. I was overly tired, overly stressed.

And I finally was like, I'm going away. And right as I, like the day I was leaving, I got all these like work texts and I just wrote back and I said, I am done. I'm checking out. My phone will be off. The only person who can get ahold of me is my mother in case of an emergency, but I'm, I'm done. Whatever's going on business wise that can either wait until I get back or it will just go away or you guys can go with it. But it was the first time I've ever,

since my whole cancer journey, like completely chucked out where I wouldn't even answer my phone. Did it feel good? It did. I mean, it felt amazing until I came back. Right. Right. And then I was like, could I not just stay in Quicksmallow, please, for like the rest of my life? Oh, that sounds like a nice place to be. Oh, gosh. Have you never been to Quicksmallow? No.

I highly suggest it. It is my favorite place to go. I've been a couple of times. They grow all of their own vegetables, their meat, everything. Everything's organic. They have a whole wellness center. They have yoga. They have sound baths. They have everything. And do you do all of that? Did you experience all of it? I did a lot of classes as well.

I did a lot of tequila. You did? That's what I did. Yes. They're like, do you want to do yoga? I was like, well, isn't it kind of yoga when I lift like my hand to my mouth? Isn't that a form of yoga? What is it called? Upward dog? Upward dog. Upward hair of the dog? Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

No, I mean, I got to sleep in and like the birds chirping and the whole sound there is magical and peaceful and the food is really great. So I got to definitely unplug, which is the main thing. Do you talk to a therapist? Do you have a therapist? I don't. You don't? Do you think that maybe you should talk to a therapist just to unburden yourself of- I'll just talk to you all the time. Yeah, you can call me if you want, but-

I think there have been moments where I've said to myself, maybe it would be good. But honestly, for me, it's so hard to trust. I've been burned so many times in my life by so many different people. Yeah. And people that I thought never in a million years would burn me and hurt me that to open up to anyone. Mm-hmm.

is incredibly hard. And doing my podcast when I do an episode

with my doctors or about cancer, that feels like therapy to me anyway. And it's great. I was just going to say that. And I get to save more money for the plastic surgeon. Yeah. And the name of the podcast is Let's Be Clear. Because our podcast, we will sit around this little card table in my son's bedroom and we preamble and it becomes our big therapy session here.

And I feel that not only are you providing a service, but it probably very much feels like therapy for you to get it off of your chest, your fears, your worries, or how you're being proactive or how other people are learning how to be proactive in their own lives. Yeah.

I mean, I hope it is. It's, you know, I have to like strike a balance of, you know, doing episodes that are about something completely different than cancer. Things that are, you know, about my past. Let's be clear. It's all about, let's clear up some of those rumors about me or let me take you down the path of how I got hired for Little House. Let's, you know, the auditioning process for 90210. So I like to go down those paths, but- Yeah.

And inevitably, they always lead to things I don't necessarily want to relive in my life. Right. And those give me anxiety. Whereas the ones about cancer where, yes, it's therapy for me, but it's more the comments afterwards where somebody is saying, oh my God, this helped me so much and I made my mom listen to it or I made my daughter listen to it. That is...

so incredibly rewarding and people's comments bring me to tears because I'm, again, if you think that you're going through all of this in order to help other people and you actually manage to help one person, then you're like, okay, God, I get it. You know, I get why I'm here. So, um, but the benefit also is the immense amount of love from people

the cancer community that I get back, I mean, listen, there's always going to be one asshole, right? Oh my God. Or two or five or 10 or 20. And, and,

sometimes I'm feeling a little spicy and I get combative, but most of the time I just delete them because I'm like, you know what? It doesn't need to be seen or responded to. Yeah. And like, why are you, why do you follow me if you hate me so much? Why do you listen to my podcast if you think I'm a horrible human being? Like- They're just looking for your attention. I know. I read yesterday an article about

the Charlize Theron and Tom Hardy Mad Max. Oh, yeah. And they were talking about how Tom Hardy and Charlize had a lot of conflict because she's, you know, ultimate professional on time, blah, blah, blah. And he showed up like three hours late. Okay. Because it was a morning call. And this came from like the producers. And so probably legit, right? I mean, it was direct quotes from them. I read it and I was like,

Wait a second. I was three hours late on 90210 because I was in horrible condition from an abusive husband and I got frigging fired for it.

And then thrown under the bus repeatedly for the rest of my career, even though I made a point of always being on time, certainly after that experience. And I'm like, so is it that we live in a different day and age or is it because it's a man experience?

Like, what is that that you and I experienced so much back then? It's both. It's both. I feel like the article would have been a different article if Charlize was three hours late. For sure. I mean, obviously they said nothing bad about her except that she's the ultimate professional and is always on time. And I've met her and she's freaking amazing. She's amazing. Yeah.

She's amazing. But for sure, if she had been the one that was three hours late as opposed to Tom Hardy, it would have been- It would be a different story. Yeah. Like they said it wasn't right, but they also kind of made excuses for him a little bit. Of course. I mean, it's funny when I read about how far we've come and I think, no, we haven't. We have not come so far. Yeah.

The press is still misogynist towards women. That is the way it is. And anybody who disagrees with that is a guy. Yeah. I mean, it's just that simple. You know, and a lot of times it's other women writing the articles and then people say, well, it's not misogynist. A woman wrote it. And I go, women are some of the most misogynist people on the planet. And that baffles me, right? Because-

Listen, there are some women that I've encountered in my life that I'm like, you're the devil. But for the most part, I want to just support my fellow woman. You know, like Sarah Michelle. The best. It's such a strong support system that's not even an everyday thing. No. You know, we'll just randomly...

feel that the other one needs some attention or some love or some support or whatever. And we check in and we're constantly, like there is that that you have with women. And I don't understand how when we're in such a struggle in our society to actually rise up and be equal with men, the more that we band together and support each other, the more we're actually going to achieve all of that.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I'm lucky because I had the best father in the world who was always like, Shannon, you are equal to everyone. So stand up for yourself. Don't worry about what people say.

Just be you. Yeah. Did not always serve me well. Is that advice? I'm surprised you didn't pick better, like this guy that you were with. What's his name? Rick Solomon. What is his? What's going on there? Is there something I don't see? Because I don't see it. What is it? Yes.

So I, interestingly enough, he was just on my podcast. Okay. And we text and we FaceTime. And you're friends. All the time. We're really good friends. I adore him. I love him. Here's what it is. So when I knew him, he was sober when I met him and when I married him and then

As he admitted on my podcast, he was a drug addict for 15 years. Oh, God. And it made him – there was some bad decisions made and some people in his life, his assistant who sold certain things and blah, blah, blah.

Um, but what I will tell you is that there's only a few of my exes that I know something, the shit hits the fan. I can call them and they will drop everything to help me. And he's one of them. And he is one of them. Oh, wow. Okay. And the other one is Rob Weiss. So it's- Oh, okay. Yeah. It's like those two guys are the guys that-

are still very active in my life that I speak to and that I admire. Rick is charming. He's affable. He's goofy. But more importantly, he's unbelievably loyal and will do... Even when he was on drugs, everything that he did, he still wasn't like a cheater. He just was a drug addict. And

but would always be remorseful and come home and be like, I'm so sorry. But that's a legitimate disease. He had a disease. He finally has, you know, conquered for 15 years and we pray that he continues. But that's, you know, one of the better ones. Is he somebody you would rekindle a relationship with? I don't like going backwards. Right.

But is there one that you feel like is one that got away? Probably Rob is probably the one that got away. I think we were really young when we were together. Yeah. And I just find him – I've always found him, even when we broke up, I was like, oh, God, this is such a mistake, Shannon. You know, like he's an amazing guy. But everything works out exactly the way it's supposed to, I think. And I don't know. I mean, I'm so –

I don't know where I am with dating. Yeah. It's only been a year since the whole fiasco with my husband and I'm still, you know, fighting a divorce and it's still so hard and raw and I was really, really in a dark place for like nine months after I found out what he did. And, you know, I had brain surgery. I found out. It was like a whole fiasco that...

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that after you left Beverly Hills 90210, we stopped watching it. We both came to this same realization. Yeah. I love you both. Yeah. But for us, it was like, you were the draw. And as you mentioned before, you know, you lost your job in the most

Fucked up of ways. So then Charmed comes along, which is also an Aaron Spelling show. And the first thing he does is cast you, right? Yes. How does that work? So how does that work? Like, you were fired for being late from 90210, but then, oh, you know who we should... Like, did you feel vindicated by that? No, I felt...

You know, honestly fearful. So it wasn't just being fired for being late. It was that all of my bad press. Right. That. Stuck to you. You know, that stuck to me. The cast collectively decided that it wasn't a good look for 90210 anymore.

So the cast of 90210 are the ones that scheduled the phone call with Erin and said, it's too much. We don't want to deal with this anymore. It's a bad look for our show. It's a bad look for us. She was three hours late, blah, blah, blah. So like, you know, it wasn't, and, and by the way, I didn't know a lot of this until way later. Like Tori was just on my podcast. She told me a lot of this. Brian Austin Green told me a lot of this.

So I, but I kind of knew that it was never really Aaron's decision. It wasn't that he looked one day and said, this is just too much for us. It couldn't, he would never, he's a producer. He was smart. He understood that I, as Brenda, was a very big draw to the show. And I was getting, yes, some bad press, but I was also on the cover of Rolling Stone and on every other cover there. Right.

It was important. That was feeding publicity and drawing the ratings up. But going back to Charmed, it was, yeah. I mean, when I got sent the script, the minute somebody told me it was Aaron Spelling, I threw it in the back of my car. It was like, I'm never working with that man again. Right. But I did because it was really, really, really good. And I got to make casting decisions, all of that. He wanted you. He knew he needed you. Yeah.

Yeah. So getting fired from that was one of the... 90210, I recovered really quickly. You did? I recovered very quickly. I was also younger. We did not recover. Jen and I did not recover. You know, it wasn't... It had stopped being fun for me. The set was very hostile and toxic and I just...

wasn't the girl that could work with some of the male producers. I wasn't, I was not capable of saying yes and batting my eyelashes and putting on a baby voice and not really having an opinion. I was incapable. So when it became such a big clash between me and the executive producer and then Aaron's partner, Duke, when they fired me, it was almost like,

I felt some relief, to be honest. I felt like I was free and that felt good. Charmed, I would have been there until the bitter end. It was by far one of my absolute favorite working experiences. I loved my character. I loved the writers. My crew was my heart. I loved every single thing about that show.

So is there any truth to the story that your co-star said it's either Shannon or me? Yes. Yes. Yes. So Holly and I addressed that on the Let's Be Clear podcast. Okay. That's where I read it. That's where I read it. You know, what was really interesting is that when Holly and I did the podcast, I thought that we were very fair. I felt like we were very kind. You know, we said there's no more hard feelings, like everybody, like we're good. Yeah.

And more stuff was posted on her side and said, and I was, somebody sent me a screenshot of a comment that was from her husband who is a manager. He used to be with CAA. Right. And I was so horrified by this man's comments about me because I was like, wait a second.

We just went through the whole Me Too movement. Right. We just went through how men treat women in this business. Right. And you're literally doing exactly what men got nailed for. Right. So it's… And by the way, was he there? Was he there for any of it? By the way, no. Right. He wasn't there. Right. So it just… That proved to me that our business…

never change. They may want to put on a different face, these men who run these agencies and these management companies, to the public, but they're exactly the same as they always were. Right. And they...

And it was really a hard pill for me to swallow and to stay quiet on because I almost reposted his thing, almost blasted. And then I just went, you know what? This is not worth it. It's not going to serve me. It's just going to keep it going. It keeps it going. Sometimes it's easier to just – I hate when people say to me, take the high road because take the high road, you know, that means just shut the fuck up. But –

At the same time, sometimes taking the high road just saves you the aggravation of, you know, in the furtherance of this. We just had a podcast. We put all of this to bed. It's done. Then he wants to insert himself. And then if you respond to it, it just gives it life for another day.

That is 100% true. Right. But I think that was in that instance true. I think in everything else of dealing with those rumors of, you know, why this person did what she did, that is, even though I don't like to comment on it anymore because I did address it on the podcast, I'm still not going to let somebody call me a liar. Right.

Those days of me being in my teens or my 20s where the National Enquirer gets to write fake stories about me, they're long gone. And I'm a girl with stage four cancer with possibly a very limited amount of time. The last thing I'm going to do is lie because karmically I...

I don't believe in it. I think it'll hurt my chances of, you know, where I'm going. But you also strike me and you have always struck me since the first time I met you many years ago as a very straight shooter. Like, I don't feel like there's any artifice...

when it comes to you. And I can always see it coming because I deal with it a lot. I know you do. I can recognize it when it's coming towards me. And then you see real deal people and I go, oh, she's the real deal. She's the real deal. That one's the real deal. Thank you. Well, I mean, listen, I got to say that there's very few interviews that I like to do, that I look forward to that

But it's maybe like, you know, like recognizes like. Yeah. And, you know, you're the real deal also. There's, I always feel that you give a very,

You come from a genuine and nice place. There's nothing in you that wants to take down your guest or make them feel uncomfortable or anything else, but I can also have a very real intelligent conversation with you. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, and I always say this, I hate doing talk shows. I find them anxiety-inducing. I always feel like they're probably – not all of them, but a lot of them, you feel like –

This is all a setup for them to make me look incredibly bad. So I have to watch every, and I don't like that feeling. And I don't want any person on my show to ever feel that way about anything. So if I have to truly twist myself into a pretzel to not make that happen, I'm not going to do it.

So I think that's probably the environment you feel. And it's all very like-minded there. We understand people waking up early to do our show, they're doing us a favor and there is nothing in it for us to make that person feel like there's a trap waiting around the corner or a trick question or something that's going to make them uncomfortable. I'd rather cut my own tongue out. But here's the other thing that you guys do on your talk show.

that some talk shows do not do. The guest angles and the guest light is equally as good as yours. Or I would say it's equally as bad. Oh, really? So this last like press tour I did where I saw you, my interview with you was the only interview I looked good in. It was the only one. Everything else, I looked terrible. And I was like, oh my God, like why...

And like my angles on the other shows were so bad. They were just so like not flattering angles. Because they will key light the shit out of like the hosts and then you're just in it. But on our show, I got them to add...

lighting in the desk. So when we sit at the host chat desk, we are softly lit. And then I had, I asked them if they could put lights on all of the cameras so that I have a key light. You have a key light. Mark has a key light because nobody needs to know what we actually look like at 9am. Nobody needs to know that ever. Right. Right.

Well, I mean, part of our job is creating a fantasy anyway, right? Yes. What are we doing here? Right. We're not like reality stars. Like we're entertainers. Right. And so there is some of that. Like I love when people are like, oh, did you Photoshop your photo on Instagram? And I'm like, yeah. Like I do a little bit. Yeah.

You know, there are moments like when I do my podcast, I just have the halo light on. But otherwise, we have a light here. Albert puts this light on me. There's a light. Oh, no, that's a really good light. Can you send me the name of that light? I'll send it to you. Yeah, we'll send you everything. I have

have a question. Jan has a question. Okay. But we're going back in time a little bit. Okay. Go back, Jan. So you're, you're a teen. How old were you when you did 90210? How, what was that age range? I think I did the pilot when I was 17 and a half. And then the TV show was like from 18 until maybe 22. So you're 18 years old. You're like best friends with Tori at the time.

What was it like running around the house, that house? Oh, yeah, that house. Oh, you must have been in the spelling house, the mansion. I didn't know what that house was like as an 18-year-old. It was overwhelming initially where your jaw just drops and you're like, wait, how many security guards are here? How big is it? There's an elevator that, you know, look at these kitchens. Kitchens. Kitchens. There's more than one.

I mean, there was a doll room for Candy's doll collection. There was a wrapping paper room where every wrapping paper in the world and every ribbon, because she was really into making beautiful wrapping for presents. Did you have your own room? Did you have your own? I did. You did? Yeah. So both the kids had like these big palatial beautiful rooms and then directly across was for friends. Wow.

And they were also beautiful and palatious. Did you guys ever throw a party there? Yeah. Did you? Did the Spellings ever go away to, I'm just going to throw words out, Montecito for the weekend. Montecito. And then you had the run of the house. That's a good call that they would go to Montecito. No. Thank God we didn't have the run of the house. Can you imagine? Well, sub security would have shut us down. So there was no ever having a run of that house. Yeah.

But I will say Candy was always, always, always very like welcoming. She made you feel very welcome in her home. And then I kind of got used to it, to be honest. That's amazing. I loved it because one of their chefs was named Nan and Nan-

would always make me fresh cookies. And when we were out late at night, we would come in and Nan would have like a plate with my name on it with like food ready for me. Incredible. Right. So when I couldn't go to the house anymore, like my heart broke. I was like, wait, but where's Nan? Like...

Well, I just want to thank you for doing the podcast. You are as delightful as you always are. And don't forget to check out Shannon's podcast, Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. She answers all the questions that you need to know and more. We love you here and we wish you well. And I'm going to, if you don't mind, I'm going to get your address and send you that card.

Please do. Okay. I will. Please do. I can't wait. I promise you I'm going to frame it. I love you. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Bye, Shannon. That was fun. That was great. She's a gem. She's amazing. Well, that's it. That's it. That's all you got. Now, this is the part I have to read. Don't forget to rate and review us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Bye, everyone. Can't wait to talk off camera next week. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo!

Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Melojo Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music. From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Julia Desch.

from Goat Rodeo. Our team is Cara Shillen, Megan Nadolski, Max Johnston, Isabel Kirby McGowan, and Rebecca Seidel. Additional sound design by Terrence Bernardo. This show is powered by Stitcher.

Kevin Hart here. You know you can cash back 5% on travel purchase through Chase with Freedom Unlimited? So cash back that vacation for some relaxation. How do you cash back? Learn more at ChaseFreedom.com. Restrictions and limitations apply. Offers subject to change. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC.

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