David Duchovny: Why Don't You Love Me? 50:38

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It was all beeped out. But I did suggest that we can call it the Untitled David Fucking Duchovny Podcast. Somebody got to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay.

Hey everyone, we're back with another episode of season two of Let's Talk Off Camera. Hear how when I read it, it sounds so red, but when we just start talking, it's normal. I have like two voices. I have my reading voice. You're an announcer voice, yeah. Yeah, but I prefer my talking voice. Okay, so just talk and I'll hide the script from you. Yeah. Anyway, so before we get to David Duchovny. Oh.

Why don't you love me? Why don't you love me? Why don't you love me? Before we get to him. I need your take on something. It was my anniversary yesterday. Happy anniversary. Thank you. That's all good. I don't remember. 24 years, whatever. How many? Doesn't matter. 24. 24? That's a long time. Here's the question. Yes. Do you have to have sex on your anniversary night? Is it a requirement?

Such a good question. I have an answer. I mean, my anniversary is tomorrow, so I don't have to answer this. So what do you think? What do I think? What do I think? It's kind of required, right? You kind of have jet lag working in your favor, though. This is so true. So true. I kind of feel like you're supposed to. No, I didn't.

I feel bad. I was so tired. You're tired. I know, but it's like it's your anniversary night. But you know that you're going to have your anniversary sex this weekend. Yeah, that's perfect. Which is perfectly plausible. I said the only requirement of an anniversary is a good meal.

right he's so obsessed with food it's out of control you can't have you can't have like a shitty meal who is Glenn or Albert you can't have a shitty meal on your anniversary our whole way over here all he would talk about is food I've had a million shitty meals on my anniversary really and I've only had 28 anniversaries I don't understand how this manjaro thing isn't working for you oh yeah because the

The food on your brain is like... So my latest thought on the Munjarro. Yes. Explain to me your thoughts on Munjarro. So... We need... By the way, we need a theme song for thoughts on Munjarro. Something PBS-ish. Oh, yeah. Well, Kyle has the Munjarro jingle. No, no, but I just feel like we need thoughts on Munjarro and a soft music needs to come into the background. My latest conversation is that Munjarro...

psychs you out and makes you think you're impenetrable. It's like a superhero cloak that it puts on people where they think, oh, I don't have to watch what I eat because I'm on Munjaro. But isn't that the whole point of Munjaro to watch what you eat? It watches for you, but then you can fight it. I know you, you're a fighter.

You can fight it. You are a fighter. But did you see in the news there was that whole thing about, it was like ozempic face? No, it's like ozempic face, ozempic butt. But like this week it said something about ozempic mood or personality was actually the opposite of what you're saying. Right. It said that it actually causes anxiety and depression.

And the reason why... I thought it was supposed to cure all of that. Isn't that what they said? I know, but they were saying the reason why is that people have associated all of their like social abilities around... Eating and drinking. Food. Right. And having... That's where all of their social... And so when that's gone, they're like, they're all anxious and depressed. This is why I love my anxiety. I feel like it serves me well. I have had low level and sometimes high level anxiety and I like it.

And it comforts me. And I know it's there. It's like my constant companion. Take my anxiety everywhere I go. You know, when I'm super anxious is when I get super quiet. And then I'll hear this one say, Kel, you want a cookie? And he starts food pushing because he co-ops my anxiety. We should send him and hook him up to some machine to see his like his levels of that Instagram post you sent me with the

with all the layering of the food. I sent it to him. The layers of the tater tots and the fries. This woman's layering the french fries. You talked about tater tots earlier. I got tater tots at the Time 100. It was the best part of the whole thing. Have you ever had tater tots and caviar?

What? That sounds amazing. Yeah, it's a thing. Tater tots and caviar is like a thing. This is rich people shit. Rich people will put caviar on anything. But people, what I don't like now is that there's all this shame that people have about admitting that they're on it. Oh, I don't get that at all. What the fuck? I don't know. I talk about it openly and I feel like people think that it's like admitting that they've

like given up or that, but it's, it's a drug that is out there now that clearly is helping people. Oh, I agree. But don't you agree? Like why are people so ashamed to talk about it? I don't know. I'm not entirely sure. I don't, I don't, I don't know. Well, I love that you talk about it.

I think it's great. So the revelation I had that I, this weekend, which is something that the two of you live by, is that just, I don't, there are things like sugars and like all the stuff that I have like reintroduced that I think the Munjarro is combating, that if I take those out now, go back to what I was doing before, which were those GG crackers that everybody swears by. The ones that make you poop.

But like going back to that, it's like you can do both. You don't have to because of it just think, oh, the drug is doing all the work, which a lot of people say. You have to meet the drug halfway. Yeah, you do.

That's where my new headspace is at for the last two days. Okay, he's ready. Ah, there he is. Hi. David Duchovny. How are you, Kelly? I have a whole intro for you. You do? Do I have to be quiet during it? No. You don't have to. Bullshit. You can say whatever. Yeah, that's usually what people do. Not true. Where are you? This is my son's former bedroom. Oh.

I was thinking it looked like a kid's room. Yeah, he doesn't live here anymore. How old is he? 26. Oh, he's long gone. He's long gone, yeah. Have you kept it kind of the way it was? It's kind of the way it was, except that I've added a podcast studio in the corner. And then I've put some, like, I've put an infrared sauna on the floor. Mark hates this room. He never comes in here. It makes him very nervous. Yeah.

Somebody's behind you. Somebody just came in. I don't want to alarm you, but there's a man behind you. It's a great look with the door behind you. You should just have people coming in and out the whole time in more and more complicated disguises. Okay, I'm going to start. Today, Jan Shillay, we are talking with a real Renaissance man. He is. He's a television star. He's a movie star. I was born in the Renaissance. He was born in the Renaissance. He's a musician. He just...

completed his European tour, which I want to talk about that. He's a Golden Globe winner. He's a New York Times bestselling author. One of my favorite authors of our generation is David Duchovny. I think...

The credit he's probably most proud of is when he was my co-host. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Point of personal pride. Can we do that again sometime? Is Mark ever going to take a... Yes. Or I can go be with him when you're gone. Well, that's not as much fun for me, but okay. Well, guys, in case you're wondering who's on the other end of the computer, it's David Duchovny. Yes.

Why don't you love me? Why don't you love me? Why don't you love me? Why don't you love me? So many women have asked. I do love you. What are you talking about? No, but you know what I mean, like the song says. I do. Are you tired of people saying that lyric to you? No, I think it's, you know what? If I got to be associated with a song, that's a good one. It's a great song, right?

Yeah, and I didn't know my name rhymed with so many things. Look at how good looking he is. You never age, by the way. I do. Don't make me show you the bottom half. No, that's why we're here. We're here to see the bottom half. There's a lot of talk about the bottom half. So, David...

Tell me about the greatest thrill of your life, which was guest co-hosting with me. And I've got to tell you, from my point of view, you could easily host your own show. I see you more as a late night host because I think you have that

dark-sided energy that is so necessary. But you're like... Because I thought about it when we did that. I liked working with you so much too. And I thought, could I do that? And I thought, like you just said, I just thought there's something about me that doesn't... I'm like, I don't belong in the daytime in some way. I think that you... I mean, I think you are...

You're so good and you're so smart and you're so talented. And my favorite days, I keep talking to Jan who is here, who is one of our producers on the show. You've produced Duchovny, have you not? Yes, many times Jan has produced you. And...

You're our favorite guest. You're our favorite filling co-host because you just have a sense of humor and you are super smart and you're a conversationalist. And I think those are positives. Thank you for saying those things. There was a guy...

He was the head of Disney, I think, at the time. And he had asked me a long time ago, would I be interested in doing a talk show? And I said, I don't know. I don't know if I could do that schedule because what you do is phenomenal. I mean, it's a marathon that never ends. It never ends, yeah. It never ends. It's a marathon. They keep on moving the ribbon. Yes. And I said, I don't think I could live. I don't think I could do it.

And the compliment that he gave me that I will relay to you that I liked is that, you know, he said, I see you on the talk shows. And what I think you would make a good host is because you're actually interested in other people. And I would say that about you, Kelly, is that that's what makes you a wonderful host of your show is, you know, aside from being, you know, funny and engaging and all that is like you are.

genuinely interested and I've done I've been on I've been a guest on a lot of talk shows you know when somebody's interested in you versus when they're just reading the teleprompter or whatever it is or you know their eyes just kind of glaze over and you know you're there for the moment like that's going to happen or not do you want to name any of the talk show hosts that have had the glazed over effect just go down the list go down the list of what I've done laughing

But I think you're one of these guys. Now, I think other guys find you threatening. I don't know. I mean, Taya used to say that a lot, but I never really bought it. Well, okay. Well, I'm not Taya, so you can listen to me because I'm not like, you know, you and Taya were married. You had a relationship. She has to be your hype man. She has to fluff you up, right? Yeah, right. I have no skin in this game.

Other than I am a devoted reader of all of your books and I have followed everything you've ever done. Other than that, I have no skin in this book. Right. Yeah, yeah. I feel like you're smarter than the executives. You're better looking. You're what they fantasize that they look like. You're sexy and you're talented. And I think that rubs a lot of like the regular guys that are so...

so dominant in Hollywood. There's a lot of like regular guys and regular looking guys and the regular guys hire the other regular guys to be regular. And so like the stars sort of get marginalized, if you will. And I think that is my take on

I'm not a studio executive. If I was, you'd be the star of every film. Well, can you be? I'm trying. Can you go to a studio? I'm trying. It's all part of my evil plan. All part of my... Sure, I look like a harmless talk show host, but just you wait. I used to get asked, you know, what do people misunderstand about you or something? What's the thing that people misunderstand about you? And I always hated that question because then I would say my deepest fear, you know? Right.

I don't want to say that, you know, I don't want to give that up. But I feel like people used to, people think sometimes that I'm arrogant. And I think it's similar to what you're saying is like, because I don't feel any of those things. And if I'm a certain way, or I have certain things, I'm just as damaged as anybody else. I'm damaged, you know, and I'm

I'm weak inside and vulnerable. And none of that is true. None of that makes sense to me. I know it doesn't make sense to you. Anybody that's ever known you knows that that is true, that you do not see yourself the way I see you or the way your audience sees you or your legion of fans sees you.

And I think that's what is so endearing about you and that's why you are an interested person. That's why you lean into people and you listen to when they're talking and you genuinely have a curiosity about whoever you're talking to and you're not – there's no artifice there. And maybe that's what it is. It's not that people think you're arrogant. It's that –

You, there's no artifice. You just sort of wear your heart on your sleeve and you laugh if you think something is funny and you don't if you don't. And that is, that's. That's intimidating. I guess that intimidates people. I find it refreshing. Yeah.

I like to think that that's right. I do think, well, I mean, I play games like anybody else and I'm susceptible to manipulating and manipulation. I'm not exactly as you described, but I think I am somewhat what you described. And so I thank you for saying that. So, okay, let's talk about your baby. And I mean, you're

almost brand newborn baby that I feel like I was in from, I feel smart right now because I was in this from the beginning. Bucky fucking Dent is becoming a movie. I'm so happy for you and proud of you.

Thank you. Yeah, no, it was just a cliche labor of love. But it was a labor. It was hard to do. We did it for like $2 million and 20 days. I mean, just crazy shit that happened on this movie. And we got it to where it needs to be. And it's the best thing I've ever done, and I couldn't be more proud of it.

I can't wait to see it because I loved the book so much. Well, I can send you a link. Yeah, I would love that. So when you take a book that you've labored over and

Let me tell you something. I'm just picturing the meetings between you and your editor and the publishing house when you want to call the book Bucky fucking Dent and how that all goes. Yeah, well, it's still happening. I mean, there's still discussion about the title. Here's what I think. I think you use it. You use it in the title, but you bleep out, you know, like the old, just the old school, like, beep.

So every time you get people saying, have you seen Bucky? You get theater goers coming out of the movie, and every time they use the title, it's bleeped. That's very intriguing. I know. I did it. When the book came out, I did Colbert, and I said fucking, I think we broke the record. We said it like 17 times, and it was all bleeped.

It was all beeped out. That's amazing. But I did suggest that we can call it the Untitled David Fucking Duchovny. That's amazing. So, you know, the film explores really the bonds between fathers and sons, specifically a son and his estranged father.

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The film explores the bonds between fathers and sons. What part of you is in that? And what was your relationship like with your dad? Many, many, many ways to answer that question. First of all, when I wrote the script that I wrote the book from and then wrote the script from the book again to make the movie, I had written the part of the son for myself, but I got too old. I wrote it like 15 years ago, the first script.

And at one point I just, I just said, it's, it's, I mean, maybe I can play late forties, but this guy shouldn't be late forties. He should be like early thirties. So I was like, fuck. Okay. I'm still too young to play the father, but I want to play him. So I played him.

The father's nothing like my father. My father is very gentle, very almost passive, intellectual, funny, sweet man. The father in this is not. This is more actually like my mom. The father is more like my mom, who was fierce and a survivor and my champion and

but tough, you know, born in depression era Scotland and, you know, had nothing and fought for everything and fought for me for everything and made me fight. And, um,

So, but the heart of the movie, aside from hearing once when I was at Taya's in-laws place in Massachusetts and I heard the guys working on the roof and one of them said, Bucky fucking Dent. And I knew baseball, so I knew who he was referring to, but never heard that phrase because I'm from New York and he's a hero in New York. So he's a villain here. So I was like, oh, that's a funny phrase. So it just stuck in my mind. And what happened when my daughter West was nine months old

She got RSV, which kind of was in the news again a couple of years ago. I just recently heard of RSV for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. I'd never heard of it until my daughter got it. And it's very dangerous for infants. And she went into the hospital and she had, nobody knew what it was. They thought maybe she had meningitis. She was non-responsive. They gave her a spinal tap. It was really dangerous.

It was really horrifying. This was her first cold, if you can remember as a parent, that first cold. It's a nightmare. But this was truly a nightmare because we really thought we could lose her. And I went, I was working on the X-Files at the time, and I would, and Tay was staying in the hospital with West, and I'd go and visit after work for a few hours, and then I'd go home. And I remember being in the shower and just thinking, I started to, like, try to...

acclimate myself to a world without her. Like, it's like, this is a real possibility. I've got to, I've got to think about it. And I realized I would never get over it. Not that I couldn't live, but just that life would, as it says in the book, it would have no meaning or joy. It would just, I would go on, but I'd be a shell of something. And Wes was fine. She, she was fine. And I realized as a father, I had trouble shortly after that, like, um,

I don't know if the word is reattaching, but accepting her back in. I was so terrified of that loss. Of getting too attached. And yes, that makes sense. And so I thought there's a story there. And so with Bucky fucking Dent and all these kind of strands came in, but that was the heart of the story. That's the true heart of the story is really me as a father and not my father, not my mother even, and not me as a son. But it's really about, I'd say, me and my daughter a little bit. Wow.

That's profound. That's really profound. And I understand that feeling of reattaching yourself to a person that you almost lost. What am I, what's the, what am I trying to say, Jen? You just don't want to like go to the fall again. You don't want to fall down a hole that deep again that you know. It was a hole. I remember, I remember specifically, you know, in the shower, like

it was like a well. And I was like looking, I was looking for the bottom and I couldn't see it. And I knew it had no bottom. And, and, you know, thank God West is fine and we're, we're, we're good and everything. But, you know, I still, I still have anxiety over, you know, especially as we're learning more and more about like trauma between ages zero and three. I was like, fuck, you know, I didn't know. I didn't know. I, I, I,

I did my best and I couldn't love her more, but I know that I was afraid at that time. I know I got cold a little bit for a while. That book came out of me that way and the movie comes out of me that way. And I hope that it's a feeling that people can relate to and maybe a healing feeling and it promotes understanding and forgiveness and

hopefully humor because there's a bunch of fart jokes on it too. I bet you right now, this is a film that I can't wait to see it. Like I said, I loved the book so much. I love all of your books, by the way. Thank you. Did you ever get your PhD? No, Mom. I didn't. I just feel like...

I feel like, as your mother, that I have to encourage you, just submit Bucky fucking Dent. Well, it's good that you're taking up the gauntlet. Yeah, it's your dissertation. I can't do that. Yes, you can. Why can't you? Because I wasn't getting a degree in creative writing. It would have to be a book of criticism about Bucky fucking Dent. Okay, you can do that now. You know, my mom...

My mom died right before I finished that movie. And one of the last times that I went to visit her, maybe a few months before she died, I brought my kids. My mother asked me like she always did. She said, when are you going to finish your dissertation? That's going to be my last words to you too. And I said,

I don't think I will, Mom. I sound like I'm 15. I don't think I will. I have other work that I'm doing. It's funny to think of. And she went like this after I said, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to finish it. She made the face of the Edward Monk painting. But no, she did that without the hands and then immediately fell asleep. It went like this.

Very handsome David Duchovny just somehow contorted his face to look like a much older woman. And the scream face. And then he just sort of fell asleep. It's amazing to watch. His head dropped forward and he fell asleep. So we were driving home and I don't know if it was West or my son Miller who said, why don't you just lie to her? Laughter

And I was like, I never thought of that. I was like, am I punishing her? I had to think that. Oh, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Did you ever? I never got a chance to lie to her. You never got a chance to lie to her. Okay, so. The next time I was going to see her, I was going to say, hey, guess what? Guess who finished his dissertation? Albert, I want you to write this down. Yes. On my deathbed.

I would like brought to me David Duchovny. If I'm alive. So you'll be alive. I won't be alive. You definitely will. I'm going to see to it. I'm going to... If I have to shoot you full of... Say, last words. I want my last words to be...

David Duchovny, did you finish your dissertation? You know what I'm going to say? Kelly, I did. I did. I did. And then I'll go to my desk going, is he lying to me? You're going to make a scream face? You liar. You're going to make a scream face and die. And then die. And then die right after. You know what?

like the way my death is shaping up. I like it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not bad. It's got a lot of ups and downs. So do you ever think about writing your memoirs? No. No, I'm fairly private. I know. And I would write really mean things. I would write the truth and I don't want to do that. I was like,

If I wrote a memoir, I would lie. I'm kind of more interested in, say, with Bucky Dent, just like if I feel I've had a profound experience of some kind, if I could turn it into something else.

and make it beautiful in some way or more moving than if it was just about me, then I'd like to try to do that. I don't have anything against memoirs. I just think, I don't know. Will you turn the reservoir into a film? Maybe. I mean, it's possible. I think it could be kind of an interesting, small, low-budget film. Yeah, it kind of lends itself to that almost. It's like a pandemic rear window. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. It's got like two pages of dialogue, so it would have to be all... It would be an interesting adaptation. I would like to star in that. I think I could really act the shit out of something without dialogue. I know, right? Don't you...

You're tired of talking. As soon as I open my mouth, I don't believe myself and that makes me a terrible actor. That's the problem. No, that's not true. It's pretty true. When was the last time you played a role? A long time. And it's a muscle. Did you ever love it?

You know, when I did the sitcom, I loved that. I loved the comedy aspect. I just... I don't like... I get uncomfortable going deep for drama. I really get uncomfortable doing it. Like, I could never do what you do. I don't. I feel like picking up the emotional rabbit out of the hat internally and punching it in the face and stuffing it back down there is not my jam. It just doesn't feel good to me. Oh, I get that. I mean, I...

I was just talking about this the other day because I'm doing this podcast, so I'm talking about myself more than I really like to, to be honest with you. Yeah, but I love this podcast. By the way, the day this episode drops is the day after your podcast launches.

And David's podcast... I'll be in hiding is what you're saying. So listeners, no. Yes, you'll be hiding under your bed, but it's going to be good because our listeners are very good podcast listeners. You're going to want to download David's podcast. It's called Fail Better, and it's about failure.

And I find the topic of failure the most fascinating because the only time I've ever achieved anything in my life is coming straight out of a fail.

pulling myself out of a fail. Right. Yeah. And so who do you talk to? Well, that's the thing. So far, I've talked to Ben Stiller, Bette Midler, Gabor Mate, Stephen Dubner, who wrote Freakonomics, Brad Gilbert, the tennis coach. So it's like all different kind of perspectives. Obviously, I'm talking to famous actors about failure and there's that kind of

voyeuristic sense of like, oh, box office bomb or whatever. But really the inspiration for it came just because I always feel like a failure no matter what's happening. So it was like, what is this feeling? What is the use of this feeling? Like, is there a usefulness to this misery or is it just kind of self-flagellation or is it productive or is it productive up to a point and then it becomes really unproductive? And how do you strike that balance of like,

oh God, I fucked that up. I just want to crawl away and die to, oh God, I fucked that up. I know what to do next time. You know? That is, this is going to be my favorite podcast besides this podcast, Jan. Don't get upset.

Do you, on your podcast, do you talk about your failures personally? Yeah. Unfortunately, yeah, they keep on telling me I got to do that in order to elicit it from other people. So do you talk about your professional failures or your personal? Both. Both? Yeah, both. Yeah, really, really not my wheelhouse. So give me your number one, like now that the sting is off. I don't want you to give me a fresh wound. Give me an old wound professionally. Okay.

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Fiji water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Visit your local retailer to pick up some today for your next backyard party, beach or pool day, hike or even your home office. It's not just water. It's Fiji water. On your podcast, do you talk about your failures? I don't want you to give me a fresh wound. Give me an old wound professionally.

Well, the kind of origin story of the podcast is when I made my first film, House of D. I mean, of course, there's millions of auditions that I didn't get and horrible things that were said to me. So House of D came out while I was making another film in Montreal, and my driver was French-Canadian and I guess did not speak English or read English that well because he left

the paper with the review of my movie open on my seat for me to read when I got in. I guess he thought it was... It was nice. Well, it was a review. He just saw your picture and was like, oh, look, it is you. And it said, it said, Duchovny's House of D gets an F. It was an F. And the first line was, have David Duchovny's brains been abducted by aliens? Yes.

And I was just like, you know, I just had the sweat and the prickliness and the heat. My ears were, I could feel they were getting red. And I was on my way to work and I was just like, how the fuck am I going to work? How am I going to, I couldn't even hold a thought. You know, I just buzzing in my head. And I got to work and I was in the trailer and I was like, okay, just, um,

You know, you're doing a different show. They have nothing to do with that. You know, they hired you for this. So I just, I went to work. You know, I was just like, okay, I got to work. I'm sure you've had horrible things happen in a morning. Yes, I've only had bad. And then you got to go on and be your effervescent self, whatever. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I was like, I got to do that. And I'm going to take pride in that today. And I did that. And then I woke up.

the next morning and I felt amazing. And I was like, I don't understand why I feel amazing. And then I realized that my entire life I was terrified of getting an F because I really equated it with death. Because I grew up with, my mom was, I had to get A's because I had to keep going to the best schools or else I'd wind up in the gutter. That was the story.

And I realized, thank God for this reviewer that I could get an F and I'd wake up in the morning. I could still have a cup of coffee. Still alive. Still alive. And I was like, oh, I'm somewhat liberated here by this F. And I was like, I wonder if other people have had an experience like that. You know, I think everybody certainly in show business has had multiple instances like that. I'm hearkened back to reviews.

Regis's last, I don't know if it was the last day on the air before he left our show or if it was like maybe the second to last day. Yeah, with the reviews. He read all of his reviews when he started hosting the morning show. And they were blistering. Really? And what was so funny was that he read them and we were dying laughing. They were so mean and so awful and so terrible. Yeah.

And I remember thinking, wow, he held on to them all these years. Yeah, yeah. He was laughing, but they were painful. Still painful. They stung. Yeah. I was sure that he never knew my name because... Duchovny? Well, sometimes he'd say, Duchovny! You know? Yeah. Like, he'd pop his head in the dressing room and go, Mulder! Oh, yeah, Mulder. Yeah, Mulder. He'd go, you can't see anything on that show. No wonder you got a flashlight. It's so dark. Yeah.

Mulder, get a flashlight. We just had Simon Baker on. He only called him mentalist. Mentalist! He would say, oh, the mentalist is here. Mulder. Mulder.

So we talked about your professional failure. Yeah. Do you have a personal failure story? Sure. I got lots of them. Give me the least painful one. There's no – they're all painful, I think. They're just life that happens. Divorce is a horrible thing to go through.

And what can I say? It's hard for everybody in the family. And I still, I walk the line of talking about it because my kids are always going to be my kids, you know? And even when they're adults, I don't want to hurt them anymore. I don't need to talk about that, you know? They don't need to hear about that. So, but yeah, I mean...

What do you learn? I mean, that's the other question I ask on the show is like, are some failures just going to stay with you in a way, you know, and how do you live with, with, with, with regret sometimes and with that kind of a failure? And is that, can that also be part of a resilience or part of growth or, or is it just pain? And, you know, pain has a place as well. Pain has a, pain has a place. It's a great teacher.

And nobody has the right to do this, but, you know, I'm a human being, so I do it anyway because, like I said, I'm a human being. And...

Mark and I got sad when you and Taya got divorced. We got sad as though we had something personally invested in it, which is so ridiculous. And I'm sure people say that to you a lot, but we really got sad. And we were like, oh, if that can happen to them, it can happen to any of us. Like we're all vulnerable. Yeah.

Well, that's sweet to say. But, you know, I'm proud of the way we raised the kids afterwards. And, you know, we all stayed very close together in the city. And, you know, as a child, divorce myself was something that I never wanted to do, you know. But, of course, you know, I did and we did and just did the best that we could afterwards. So, yeah, I understand. Yeah.

I mean, and I don't have, like, regrets or anything like that. It's not like I'm still in that moment. But when I think about my kids... At that time. At that time. At that time, just terrible. I mean, it's just... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know what it would be like. Tell me about your...

incredible music career, which it's so funny because just when I think, you know, I know you as an actor, I know you as a writer, and then I remember that you have this other thing. You have a band and you tour around the country and around other countries and you go on European tours. And so...

Were you always musically talented? Because I know your kids are, right? Your kids are musical. My son plays guitar well. No, I wasn't. It was actually, again, divorce. Here's a good thing. Like I had a lot of time. I wasn't with my kids all the time. And I was living in New York alone. And I was like, I've always wanted to play guitar. So that's when I picked up a guitar really at that time.

and just kind of put all my angst into playing. And then I just started writing songs. I mean, I've always been decent with words, so I thought the lyrics could come, and I was surprised that I could hear melodies. I couldn't really sing them that well, but I worked on that and worked with a vocal teacher and stuff like that, and then all of a sudden...

I found guys to make a band and they made me way better than I am. We make songs that I like them. I like them a lot. I think they're not on the radio. People don't know them. It's not a huge success, but I feel like the

The music itself reflects a lot of who I am, and I'm proud of it. I always say that all actors want to be rock stars. Yeah. And all rock stars want to be actors. It is truly fascinating to me.

But don't you think it's way cooler to be a rock star than an actor? I mean, now that you have like… Well, I'm not a rock star. Well, I think you are. You know, you rely on less people. Like, it's… The coolest thing is actually to be a novelist because it's only you. You know, it's like… Yeah. I don't have to make any calls. I don't have to plug anything in, really. But…

Yeah, it's like doing theater as well, because when you're performing live, it's really, this is only happening tonight, and this is the one moment, and this is the one time we're going to sing this song. And it's kind of a cool experience for a guy who's spent most of his life getting filmed, and my performance is then out of my control and canned by the time people see it.

So, yeah, there's just that human connection that I love. What about performing now? I, you know, I went to the Madonna. I've been going to Madonna concerts since the Virgin tour, since the first one. Right. And so I am always like Madonna and I grew up together, but she just never knew me. And what I found so fascinating over the course of the past 10 years and say five tours or six tours is,

is that nobody, like everybody's dancing. It's still a Madonna concert, but everybody has their cell phone out. Yeah, yeah. And everybody's recording everything. And what is that like for you as a performer to not really be connecting with your audience as much as you're connecting with their cell phones? Well, there's like three things I'd say about that. One is like, there's nothing we can do about it. It's just, it's over, you know, that's the way it is. Two,

It's frustrating because you do want eyes on you, you know, and not phones on you. You know, you want to make that connection. There's many reasons. Three, I've heard recordings through the phone. They always sound shitty. And I'm like, I don't want you sending this around. And four, probably most importantly, is it inhibits me because I

I'm doing a live performance and I want to go for it. Even if it means failing, like I want to really push and I want to give and I want to move stupidly, dance stupidly. If I want to, I want to say stupid things if they come to mind, but I won't because there's too many cell phone cameras. If I say one thing that's just too stupid, then I got to pay for it for the rest of my life. And it's just like not worth it anymore. So yeah,

It's too bad in all those ways. Yeah. I, I, as a live talk show host, I totally understand that. Um, so, um,

If you were to make me a mixtape in high school, let's say I somehow went to your all-boys school. Yeah. Well, that's a movie in and of itself. I mean, that really is. You would have been undercover somehow. I would have been undercover. You witnessed a murder and the bad guys were after you. The bad guys were after me. You've got to hide in this high school. Yeah. So if you were to make me a mixtape...

what kind of music would you have put on for me? High school. High school. Am I making a move on you or am I just... Jan, this is your question. She's cute.

She's cute. No, but I wasn't cute in high school. Do I know you're a girl? Yeah, let's pretend I'm a girl. I'm the one girl in an all-boy group. You're an undercover. He knows that you're an undercover. You told me. You told me. You told me your secret. I told you the secret, so now you're the keeper of my secret. You said, David, two things. One, I'm a girl. Two, can you make me a mixtape? Yes, that's it.

And I'm like, can I make you a mixtape? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I would probably put some Al Green on it and Sly and the Family Stone and some really good Motown, probably some Beatles, some Stones on the second side, you know, just get a little nasty, you know, just show that I'm not just, you know, one way.

But if I was really like baring my soul at that point, I'd have to add some yes, unfortunately, even though I wouldn't get laid by... No, you definitely would get laid. You're getting laid. Yeah, you're getting laid. That'd be the first time in history that any man... No, I like yes. I love yes. Really? You love yes? I've never known anybody that loves yes. Yes. I love yes. So I'd put a little yes in there. Yeah. Yeah.

We're definitely going to third base. What was your first concert? My first concert? Well, I had an older brother. So he took me to Roosevelt Stadium to see Muddy Waters, Charlie Daniels and the Allman Brothers. Oh, my God. That's cool.

But the first concert that I saw of my own volition and money was Elton John when I was 14, I think, in Madison Square Garden. Incredible. I saw Frampton. Frampton comes alive. I might have put Frampton on your mixtape, too. Yeah, and then we would have gone to third and a half bass. Yeah.

Okay, I want to play Rose and Thorn. So positive highlight or a challenge or a struggle. Okay? Okay. So what was your Rose and your Thorn while doing Twin Peaks? My Rose was working with David Lynch.

And my thorn was using Nair. Nair. Wow. Have you ever used Nair? Of course, they still have Nair. I hate to regret to inform you. It smells like farts forever. It smells terrible. And I'll go out on a limb and say your legs aren't as hairy as mine. So when you wipe them, it's disgusting. And I was working out at that time.

at the Sports Connection in West Hollywood, which is a very, very kind of gay club. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And I looked like I had fur shorts on. Oh!

And I got a lot of looks from the guys because I was like, this is a new thing. I bet you. I might be into it. Albert, as a gay man, is Duchovny a well-thirsted after? Oh, yeah. Him on the Santa Monica Boulevard gym. With the fur shorts, yeah. Duchovny with the fur shorts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. What was your rose and thorn while doing Chaplin?

Oh, well, the Rose was getting to work with Attenborough, just such a sweet, sweet man. And we're with all those great actors and I hadn't really done much, so I was just feeling like I had arrived somewhere. And the Thorn...

I don't know if there was a thorn to that one. I mean, I was just so... A thornless rose. I'm sure you relate to this. You know, those first jobs, you're just... You're so happy to be there. All the shit that you complain about later, you're like... Yes. It's like, I got this tiny room. I'm so stoked. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. They brought me a bagel. Amazing. Wait, free coffee? Okay. Okay.

Rosenthal and Zoolander, where you played the world's greatest hand model as a reference. Yes, I remember. The Rose was working with Ben and trying to figure out how to be the straight man in this crazy movie. You know, like, is this going to be funny if I play it like this, so straight? I don't know. And...

The Thorn? Maybe I'm a rosy guy. Maybe I'm just a rosy guy. Who would have thought? Duchovny's glasses half full of roses. Yeah, I don't remember a thorn. What about Californication, my personal favorite? Yeah, the rose was just working with that cast and just having fun every day and laughing. And the thorn was probably...

That was a show I felt was misunderstood. Like, I really thought we were super heartfelt and funny and could have had a wider audience or more critical love, but people focused on the sex, you know, that it was only about that. So that was always... Because of the name. Yeah, the name. The name. And, you know, we did show some, you know, bits, but...

And that was probably what brought some people to watch it. But I was always like, it was like, what's that old commercial? It's like, come for the hors d'oeuvres, but stay for the entree. Come for the tits, but stay for the heart. What about the X-Files? Oh, man. The Rose was just, you know, getting the chance to get good at what I do. You know, having to work. Like, The Rose is the thorn because we had to work like 14, 15 hour days.

People don't realize how many hours it takes to shoot that. It doesn't matter how many times I tell them. It doesn't matter. They don't really get it.

That's the thorn, yes, but it's also the rose because even though I was in my 30s already, I was inexperienced. And I needed all those hours. What is the Malcolm Gladwell thing? I needed those 100,000 hours. 10,000 hours. 10,000 hours. I needed that. And it gave me all those hours. And in that time, I figured out, not that I figured it all out, but I figured out how I was going to try to do this thing that we do.

I've got to tell you, I love having conversations with you. I feel like all... Next time when David comes on the talk show, Jan. Yes. See if we can book him for the entire hour. I know. I know. Gelman, like Gelman will be like, no, six minutes. Let's see if we can book him for the whole hour. Come on, Gelman. Like we'll do a host chat with you. Yeah, yeah. And then we'll just... And then the rest of it we'll talk about...

We'll just bullshit. Fucking dent, but we won't really say the title ever. Yeah. David, thank you for joining our podcast. We adore you. I will be seeing you soon. Is that what I'm told? Yes, you will be seeing us soon. And don't forget, David's brand new podcast is out now. It's called Fail Better. It launched yesterday. Congratulations.

Welcome to the podcast, Bob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We love you here and thanks for joining our podcast. Love you too. Thank you. All right. I'll see you soon. Bye. Take care. See you soon. Bye. Bye. That was great. Amazing. Amazing. He's amazing always. He's such a good storyteller. The best storyteller. I know. I have every single Duchovny book in my book stand. Like I never get rid, I never shed them. I always shed all of my books. Like every six months or so, I'll do a shed. Yeah.

but I never shed my David Duchovny books. So this one, I was just going to say, let me borrow this book, but I'm going to buy it and support, but it looks so good. It's like the story is so good. Everything I was reading about it, I'm like, this is so good. I can get it for, I can go downstairs and get it. Well, no, I'll buy it. Let, let him get some change. Get that coin. Get the coin. Oh,

Well, that's it. That's it. That's all you got. Now, this is the part I have to read, so it's going to be wonky. It sounds like your announcer voice. Now, here comes my announcer voice. Don't forget to rate and review us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Bye, everyone. Can't wait to talk off camera next week. Woo-hoo!

Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Melojo Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music. From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Hensuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Juliet Desch.

from Goat Rodeo. Our team is Cara Shillen, Megan Nadolski, Max Johnston, Isabel Kirby McGowan, and Rebecca Seidel. Additional sound design by Terrence Bernardo. This show is powered by Stitcher.

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