Gary Janetti: From Living in Queens to Writing About Them 55:13

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So I tell this guy, you know what? I actually know David Schwimmer. We went to Oxford together. We were friends. Right. I was like, David, oh my God, it's Gabby. And he gave me this look. Kelly, it was so humiliating because at this point too, I see Lisa Kudrow and Jennifer Aniston are looking over like, what's the weird moment David's having? Does he need to be rescued? Somebody got to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay. Okay.

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa again, back with another episode of Let's Talk Off Camera. So turn those cameras off and let's get started. Today, Jan and Albert, I am, what would you say? I'm titillating, I'm titillated, I'm vibrating. All of the above. I'm, what's the other word you usually, you always say something about me, I'm doing something. Buzzing, buzzing. I'm buzzing. Buzzing. The genius, Gary Gennetti is going to be joining us. This is exciting. Jan.

You did not get to see his show at City Wine. I'm jealous. You guys didn't stop talking about it afterwards. I'm jealous. The back of my head hurt from laughing so much. Wow. You know when the back of your skull hurts from laughing? There were laugh sounds of your laugh that I have never heard come out before.

Like you were laughing in ways. So this is how I discovered Gary. I discovered Gary Gennetti. And I'm ashamed to say this because I was such like an avid viewer of Will and Grace. I saw every episode. God forbid I stick around to watch the credits. I mean, God forbid I would stick around for written by or paid attention to any of that.

But I discovered Gary Gennetti through comments by celebs on Instagram. Comments by celebs always did this funny thing where they would feature constantly Gary Gennetti and Lisa Rinna's comments to each other. And I was like, I have to be a part of this. I don't even know what this is. Jealous. I just noticed that he and I had very similar senses of humor. Yeah.

And he's got these amazing books, Do You Mind If I Cancel and Start Without Me? Two of my favorite books I think I've ever read in my life. Just two of the great works of humor essay literature ever written. And I don't say that lightly because I'm a reader.

And lo and behold, we meet each other. Mark meets Gary in person first. Where? At a Starbucks in Beverly Hills. It's all very bougie. I think he lives in Starbucks. It's very bougie. The story is as bougie as it gets.

We're at the Waldorf Astoria. Hold on, let me light your fake cigarette. We're at the Waldorf Astoria. It was a couple of years ago and Mark walks in and he goes, I just met Gary Gennetti. And I said, you shut your dirty, filthy mouth. And I was filled with like jealousy and blind rage. Anyway, that show at City Winery. So let's get to him. Let's get to him.

He's a writer for Will & Grace, Family Guy, The Prince, just to name a few. He is a two-time New York Times bestselling author. Please welcome to the podcast, Gary Gennetti. Hi. Oh, my God. What an intro. Jesus. Jesus.

I mean, I hope you can live up to that. I can't. First of all, thank you for that show at City Winery. It was amazing. Please. Thank you guys for coming. I was so nervous before I went out. It was like this thing of like, what is this going to be? You know, you get that voice in your head. I think everybody, no matter what, you always hear that voice that says something like, who do you think you are?

walking out there like you're just from Queens. Like, what are you doing? And it's like, shut up, you, you know, let me do this. I had the best seats in the house. I got to sit next to your husband, Brad, and adjacent to your mom and your sister and your brother-in-law. And it was like a real family affair. The most fascinating part came for our table when an audience member asked about you being in a thruple.

Yes. And us all sort of gauging our reaction based on your mom's reaction. What was her reaction, by the way? She still hasn't mentioned it. She seemed to not know anything at all. Let's keep it that way. Keep it that way. It was like a blessing. And she just had a smile on her face. It was just like every word uttered here is a dream.

And I was like, oh, good. I don't think she knows what a throuple is. Yeah. No, I was thrown too. Are you amazed at how many members of the audience want to know if you are in a throuple? Kind of. Yeah. You know, it is surprising. I mean, well, you talk about your personal life every single day for 20 years. So I can't.

imagine actually what it is because people feel like they know you and it's like they don't really know you but there's that expectation to know what they want to know. So I almost felt like I needed to like give this information like it was owed or something like who is he? Why is he always around? How do you know him? So it was very funny to me. Are you in a thruple? I'm like, ah,

I loved it. You know, things like that happen to me every single day. And it was so funny. I was like, oh, this happens to Gary too, where the audience thinks they know so much about

about you. You know, it's so funny when you put something out on Instagram and I don't know what people are actually seeing. You know, I mean, you're on TV every morning and millions of people see and they've heard what you said and you know that. I don't really know. So when I said to the audience about our friend Edward, who I'm in a throuple with, I guess, um,

You know, do you know who he is? You know, I'm thinking I'm only talking to this one person and everybody else doesn't know. And everybody responded. Yes. I was like, oh, oh, like, OK, it's the same thing because of your Instagram. Yeah. So but you don't really know. You know, I'm just kind of putting things out on stories and kind of playing, you know, and just kind of like killing some time when I'm procrastinating writing or something like that. So you don't really know, you know, what people are kind of absorbing, I guess.

The other thing, I showed my daughter your videos of you drinking Aperol spritzes because that's her favorite thing to drink. Oh, no, not. I'm sorry. She loves an Aperol spritz. And she's like, I don't even understand. Like, is he having bad Aperol spritzes? And I remember...

I don't drink anymore, but back when I used to drink, people would always tell me, here, you'll love this. And I, too, hated an Aperol spritz. Yeah. I said, is this supposed to taste good?

This tastes like medicine. It tastes medicinal. That's how I felt too. I actually am not a big drinker outside of wine. So even a lot of drinks I've never had before. So people are kind of incredulous. Like, I think I had whiskey for the first time, like recently. I'm like, I don't remember having had it before, but yeah, that feeling of you're going to love this. And I'm like, I don't know. I want to go back in your early life. Okay. How did you first figure out

you were funny or talented or had what I like to call the crackle. It's like when you put pop rocks in your mouth and it crackles in your mouth. There are people that have a quality to them that make them extraordinarily funny or talented. You know, I never thought I was funny. Certainly nobody told me I was funny ever. You know, now parents will tell their kids, he's hilarious. Listen to this. My parents...

never laughed at me or even said anything that I was funny. I never gave it a thought. I don't know if I was a funny kid or not, but it was more like I was a lonely kid and I was very shy, which, you know, means anxiety now, but it was shy. He's shy. So that was a catch all for everything. Right. So no, I didn't. I was watching a lot. I watched a lot of TV. I read a lot. So I really feel like I was absorbing for my first time.

20 years of life or something like that. I was just kind of listening, you know, and I would maybe make asides in my own head, but I never thought I was funny. I certainly was never pleased with myself. I certainly never thought I've got something clever to say about this. Never.

Even when I moved to L.A. and I wanted to be a writer, I didn't think of myself as a comedy. I don't call myself a comedy writer now. I'm like, don't don't tell them comedy, like lower the expectations. You don't want to tell somebody I'm going to be funny. Listen to this. Like, just say I'm a person. And anything that happens beyond that is, you know, like icing on the cake. So it was kind of like something that just happened.

It was who I was and it was finally coming out. Does that make any sense? Yes, it does. I mean, it's funny that you say that because we were playing this game before you logged on. We were playing a game where Albert was playing theme songs from television shows from the 60s, 70s, 80s, mostly 70s and 80s. And we had to guess the theme like in under 10s.

for seconds. And it's so funny because we are all sort of children that grew up in front of televisions. And I feel like in our generation, it really formed who we were because completely became our friends. A hundred percent. The first time I wrote a sitcom script, you would call it like a spec script, meaning, you know, your sample to hopefully get you work. And I was like, oh,

I can do this because I had spent like Malcolm Gladwell said, you know, your 10,000 hours. I had 10,000 hours. I had 100,000 hours of watching TV. Do you know? So my brain, I've already wired my brain to kind of understand how that works. Yeah. TV was my friend growing a hundred percent. It's funny. You write so brilliantly in your books, particularly the stories in, do you mind if I cancel? Yeah.

And they're so funny. And, you know, I'm dying laughing. And then you sort of, you have this ability to turn the narrative on its head and explain like, you know, you would leave school at lunchtime to go home to watch soaps to see your friends on the soap operas because maybe you were lonely or maybe you were getting picked on or maybe the other kids thought there was something fundamentally wrong.

not write about you. Yeah. And that sent you into this place where you would rush home to see Erica Kane. And, you know, I got so angry for you that I wanted to go back in time with you and march in there because I was like,

I did a lot to avoid conflict when it came to bullying because I was small and I was easy to make fun of. Let's put it that way. But my dad was like, if you get in trouble in school for fighting, if you didn't get the first shot in, then you're going to have a problem with me. So I knew, like, I better fight hard. So people thought, like, maybe I was...

not to be messed with after the first fight. That was good advice he gave you. Yeah, it was. I didn't realize he was basically saying stand up to bullying, but I didn't realize. Did you ever get into fistfights? No. I remember once one kid did in the hall, and I don't know why in school, he punched me in the stomach like randomly. And I have no idea what he even did. It was the only time I'd ever been hit. And I've never told anybody that, like in my life, just because nobody's ever asked me specifically. And I was...

so ashamed of that. And I don't know why, but I was like, what happened? And it was all about like containing this like nobody could know because my thing was about being invisible. I just wanted to be invisible so I could go home and watch TV. And my parents had no clue that anything was going on at school. It was, you know, it was the 70s when I was in grammar school and then high school was the 80s, which is, you know, a

bit different. And I was ashamed and embarrassed. You know, you never want to let them know anything other. I mean, I never had friends and I never went out to things, but I just didn't want anybody to know that this is my situation. And did you have any like people like mentors in school? Was there anybody you could turn to like a guidance counselor? Yeah, well, you know, not really in grammar school.

I kind of floated around like I was I was crafty. You know, you have to be crafty. Like I was a scrappy kid. I was my wheels were always turning to self-preservation. How do I maneuver through as best so nobody's aware that anything unusual is going on here? We didn't have gym in grammar school, so I never had to worry about gym. Now, I didn't know how to play any sport, you know.

You didn't have gym and grammar school? No, because I went to a Catholic grammar school. And what was our gym became the church because I guess they ran out of money. So they never built the actual church. So as a result, it was like there's no gym. So I didn't have it until I went to high school, another Catholic school, St. Francis Prep in Queens. So my whole life became about, OK, how am I going to navigate this?

And certain things that we had, I don't know why we had square dancing, like insane things. I was like square dancing. Like I was good. You were just talking about weird things. Yeah, I was like, I'm good at this. So that was fun. I was like, maybe I'll be okay. And then in sophomore year, there was football. Now football, nothing scared me more than football. It still is triggering for me. It's a violent sport. Yeah. And it was like, I still don't know the rules. It's so aggressive. So I was like, how do I get out of this?

So I went to a guidance counselor, a nun who was a guidance counselor there. And I just created this whole web of lies about my life in order to get out of my entire semester of football. And I started to believe the stories that I was telling. I created my own soap opera, basically, Kelly, you know, and she was so kind and so lovely to me. And I don't think she had any idea what I was doing.

That you were living a double life? No, not at all. What was the, like, what did you tell her? Oh, well, my parents were getting a divorce, which, you know, in a Catholic Italian family. And my parents fought, you know, but they weren't getting divorced. And it was like, I had my mother looking for apartments. I had them having these huge fights. I couldn't do my work and my stress about this. My sister and I crying and sobbing, our family being torn apart.

I just went on and on. And then sometimes when I'd go too far, she'd be a little like, maybe I need to get somebody else involved in this. So I kind of have to pull it back. I'd be like, this was a good week, though. No, things are actually OK. You know, so I was always modulating my life, trying to keep track of things that get kind of tripped up in it. But eventually we kind of just started like, you know,

kind of gossiping a bit about TV. She also watched The Soaps. We talked about Knot's Landing. I was like, yeah, I'm literally like, I think I'm stealing some of this from Knot's Landing. I hope she doesn't realize, you know. But she became, weirdly, this kind of friend, you know, that I had. And, and,

The irony is I went to her thinking I was going to, you know, I was the smarter one. I was going to be able to kind of take advantage of this situation and use it to benefit me. But in effect, she did it a roundabout way. It did serve as a sort of therapy for me during that time. So it was very weird at first.

Did you ever see her again? Like after you graduated and moved to college? No, never. I've never gone back to my high school since the day I left. Me either. I was on that bus the second I was out after graduation and I never looked back. I remember sitting on that bus

And it was empty because who leaves the graduation on the first? Because everybody went to a party. Correct. A party. They were staying with their friends. They were taking pictures like what, you know, normal people do. I was the only one on the bus. I so wish we were together in high school because you and I would have been together taking pictures alone together on the earliest bus out of the school. And you could have got me on all my children.

- I could have. - That would have been like, "Kelly, get me in there." - Get me through the door. So you leave high school and you go to college.

Yeah. And is that where you start taking up writing and drama? And yeah, it is. It was like overnight, you know, when you're young, you don't know anything because nothing much has happened to you. So on that bus, I said, now my life will begin. I had a clear I can remember it as clear as day. And it did.

It did. I became somebody for their first 18 years. I mean, I was as unpopular as somebody could be. When I tell you I didn't go out, I don't think I went to one friend's house and all that time or a movie, maybe a few movies. I'd never been to a party. And then I was popular. Once I went to college and I could start to be myself instantly. I had friends. I had a social life. I was like the talented Mr. Ripley. You know, I just absorbed everything. And I

And I pretended like, I don't know if I pretended. I just kind of, I became, I guess. Well, I always say to, I said to my kids when they were young, I was like, here's the thing. You don't want to peak in high school. No. The people that peak in high school stay right there.

They are going to those parties until they're in their 30s. It gets creepy. It gets weird. Yeah. They seldom leave the nest. They're living in their parents' basements for eternity. Correct. And like these were the popular kids. These were the kids that you were like, gee, I wish I could just sit at their table or I wish just somebody would ask me to join in on the fun. And then you realize your life does begin if you can just push.

Push through. If you just get through, then your life begins. Yeah, you want to be us. You don't want to be us. You don't want to be. That's right. Kelly and Gary. Yeah, you want to do that. No, I mean, I'm kidding, obviously. But I think that there is a truth in this sense of you're kind of just trying to always be

But that's good, though.

That's the long game. Yeah, I'm like always play the long game. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. The sprinters, they exhaust. They die younger than the marathon runners. They really do. Yeah, completely. So tell me about your...

when you attended drama school. Was it Oxford? It was Oxford, yeah. I was 19 years old, auditioned for a summer program at Oxford through the Yale School of Drama slash something called the Acting Company, which I had never heard of. And I went into Manhattan and I auditioned. I didn't tell anybody. And then I got in. And I was like,

And I mean, I figured most of them got it. I don't know. I don't know what it was, but at the time... I bet that's not true. But I bet a lot of people auditioned and you got it. I felt like, oh my God, you know. And, you know, my parents too, even for me to go, and I don't mention this in the book, it was a big thing because for them, they were so...

paranoid that I was going to pursue a career as an actor. It's like, that's not why we're putting you through college for this pipe dream. I think that they thought that I kind of had like a fantasy idea of what I wanted to be. But I used my money. My sister helped me pay. They gave me some. And I went to this program. And it was a life changing moment for me.

You know, the truth was what I couldn't what you can't articulate when you're that young, at least I couldn't was I was being seen for the first time. You know, I had only gone through one year of college and I was just taking courses. I had maybe been in a few small plays, but this was like on a bigger scale. It was like 20 of us and they treated us as if we were, you know, artists.

And when you haven't talked for the first 18 years of your life, you know, much to people outside your family, I had nothing to lose. So I just really went for it. And to be treated as an adult and to be seen and your work seen, it was just, wow, I can do this. How many people in the program became famous besides yourself? Well, thank you for using the word famous. Yeah.

I love it. Well, famous. Two others. Both named David. You've heard all the buzz about micro laser fat removal at Sono Bello, right? It's remarkable how in just one visit, your stubborn fat is gone permanently. Once a year, Sono Bello invites listeners to their exclusive summer savings event featuring their best pricing of the year for a limited time only. A

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How many people in the program became famous besides yourself? Two others, both named David. One, it was David Schwimmer.

Oh, wow. Who went on to star in Friends. I've heard of that show. Yes, a year younger than me. He was 18 at the time. And then David Costabile was my roommate, David. And he, you would know from Breaking Bad, he spent years on Breaking Bad. He's a character actor, Broadway actor, singer. He's been in Carolina, I mean, so many things. Billions he's been on for the last several years on Showtime. Wonderful actor. And so fascinating.

They're the only ones that I'm aware of. But there is an actress, Ann Bobby at the time, who was in the program with us, who was a child actress. And she was on Broadway. I think she was in Eponine and Les Mis. And she had been on Broadway. So it was like we were with Meryl Streep. I mean, she was in it. She was a real pro. I'm talking to somebody who's been on Broadway. Like, my life. Like, how did this happen? You know? Yes. And I remember her very calmly. So when you leave college...

Do you immediately fly to L.A.? No, no. So I think I had a case of arrested development to bit because I'm going to say it's true to me. I don't want to assume any experience about anybody else. But as a gay man, not having had any kind of experiences of

like dating like you would normally get to go through in high school. You know, everything was so delayed. So after college, you know, part of it was like enjoying also like how to be gay, you know, how to have a life, how to have relationships with people. Did you come out to your friends first? Yes, slowly. You know, slowly. It was like, you know, I was like sharing like the biggest secret in the world, you know, like it was a soap opera. It was my soap opera, Kelly. I was like, finally. Right, right.

Now I'm, you know, Victoria Lord. I'm like, can I speak to you for a moment, darling? We have something to discuss. You know, I milked it. You know, I was like, I'll tell one person at a time. So this way I'll get more attention. But yeah, I kind of slowly came out.

from my sophomore year on and had boyfriends and all of that. And after college, I couldn't figure out, you know, I grew up in Queens. I moved to the city. I went to NYU to graduate school. I worked as a graduate assistant so I could get free tuition and an RA so I could get free room and board. So then I, uh, uh,

essentially became a prisoner of NYU because I couldn't afford to leave it because I had these jobs that gave it to me all for free. And yet I kind of wasn't doing great. I didn't want to be still in school. I wanted to be more out in the world. In your life. In my life, yeah. But I couldn't figure anything out. And I don't know if it's a thing that other young people feel. I stupidly felt like somebody's going to tell me how this goes.

Somebody is going to come up to me and discover me. So you just keep doing what you're doing. So I took every job in the world that there was. I mean, I cleaned apartments, which was ironic since I didn't clean my own apartment. I was like, why? Why? My roommate cleans my apartment. Now I'm out cleaning this NYU professor's apartment. And of course, I'm thinking like, why don't they clean their own apartment?

But I was a cater waiter. I worked at Ralph Lauren. I worked at Saks. And then I became a bellman, you know, at the Paramount Hotel. My favorite are your Paramount Hotel stories because it just seems like you were such an incompetent bellman that you really just were there to get discovered.

I was, you know, I was really lost. But I thought, you know what? I'll go to this hotel. Everybody stays there. I've read about it, you know, in The Village Voice, which was the internet then. And I will get discovered by somebody will come in and say, excuse me, are you an actor? And I'll be like, oh, me? Oh, well, a little. They'd be like, would you like to be on All My Children? I'm like, oh.

You know, maybe, you know, that was, do you write? Do you want to write a book? There was this sense that I don't know why it was so delusional, but I was like, I'll just be like nice to these people. And then they'll want to advance my life somehow. Gary, Gary, don't you wish that you still had that? I always say like, I couldn't do now what I did then.

Because I'm too riddled with insecurity now. I'm too afraid of failure now. I'm too comfortable now. And back then, I had nothing but belief in myself. It hadn't been stripped away yet from years of rejection and hard career. And so I wonder, would Gary now be able to

do all of that? That's a good question. He definitely had like moxie. So I think that I would be able to still. Do you know, I did a sitcom in London for a few years with Ian McKellen called Vicious. Vicious. And he...

And he's so brilliant. I mean, I was nervous. I wanted to do well for him. You know, I wanted it to go well, obviously. I put an enormous amount of pressure on myself. And during the first week, there was some rockiness during rehearsals. And I thought, well, maybe he doesn't want to be here. He's not enjoying this experience. So I internalized it all about me. And meanwhile, at the same time,

I'm, you know, in my 40s and I've been doing what I'm doing for 20 years. And I was out there alone and I was doing most of it by myself. And I was thinking to myself, God, this is so difficult. When does it become easier? Like, haven't I earned a right for it to become easier? It's still I'm still scared with how this is going to go. You know, I'm terrified. So one day in the first week of rehearsal, I asked Ian when he was having a particularly hard time. Can I just ask you why you

said yes to doing this show. And he said, because it frightens me. I've never done this before and it frightens me. That's why I wanted to do it. And I was like,

Oh, my God. I'm waiting in my 40s to not be frightened anymore. And then it was like the penny dropped. I'm like, as a creative person, I mean, I'm putting quotes around that. You're always frightened, you know, and I've never forgotten that. To me, it was almost the reason that whole experience happened. I'm like, I want to be 75 and be frightened of what I'm doing, even though the other part of me is going to be like, you're insane. Yeah.

Why are you doing this? Why are you putting yourself in this? You just reassured everyone in this room and all of our listeners. It's terrible in one way. And then in another way, you feel like, okay, I'm not crazy. You know, it's supposed to kind of feel like this. I'm supposed, because I'm putting myself out there. I'm making myself vulnerable. So you did something I've never done in my life. And for years, it's,

Every agent that's ever worked with me, manager, publicist, you name it. They're like, you got to move to L.A. Why are you still in New York? How did you compel yourself to move to L.A.? I was at the hotel and I had been a bellman for like over two and a half years. And I had a particularly like icky moment there. And I just in that moment, I saw myself.

everything that I'd been doing was wrong, that I'd been waiting for my life to happen to me when I realized I have to make it happen. I have to go out and happen. It was literally like a switch had flipped and I knew it wasn't going to happen in New York. I don't know. It was because I was too comfortable there. My whole family was there. Everybody had a certain idea of who I was there and I couldn't,

I couldn't break through. Nobody wanted to see me for parts. And as a writer, I wasn't writing the great American novel. And I adored television. And I was just like, I need to move to L.A. I'm just going to try it. I have to do it. And I went out.

in debt, but I did scrape enough together to be able to move to LA. And I went with like a laser focus. I went, I, there wasn't the internet the way it exists now, certainly. So I went to the writer's guild library and

And I just read scripts and I was like, I'm going to be a TV writer at the time. I didn't know they distinguished between comedy and drama. I assumed a good writer can write anything. And Friends was on the air and Frasier and Seinfeld and Roseanne. So all of these really well-written shows.

And I thought, I can do this. And I just went home and I wrote one. And I didn't tell anybody this for many years, but I wrote it in a day because I didn't know how long things were supposed to take. And I didn't outline it. I just started writing. And when I got to the end of the day, I had finished the script.

And that script ended up getting me, you know, my first job. I kept writing. But through a friend in New York, I got it to an agent. In my first meeting, the showrunner, who's passed away since then but created Bosom Buddies with Tom Hanks, Chris Thompson, had a show called The Naked Truth starring Taya Leone and Holland Taylor. And I thought in this meeting...

I've never done this before. It's my first meeting in Hollywood. And I'm like, I don't know how to play anything. I'm like, you can go one of two ways. You can play it like really cool how you think people are or you can be really honest. I had nothing to lose like we were talking about. So I just said, you know, before the meeting was over, I was like, I want this more than anything. I will work harder than anybody you've ever known. I love this script. I know that I can do it. And please give me the chance.

and he hired me in the room. He told me, all right, Gary, we'll do it. Things are going to happen. You're going to get a call. It's never happened like that again, though. I've never, in 27 years, I never got another job in the room. Let me tell you that. So I thought, this is how it works. And it never worked like that again.

But I've kept working, you know, and I've always still continue to write a lot and be scrappy. But I was lucky I'd only lived in L.A. a few months before I had that job. And I swore to myself I would never do another service industry job because I'd been doing them from 16 to 28, I think, when I moved there. Nonstop, by the way, like nonstop. That's exhausting. I'd always had at least one over the course of 12 years.

And the week before I got that job, maybe even days, I'm not exaggerating. I was so out of money and I said, I need a job. So I went to the Chateau Marmont and I applied for a job as a bellman. And then a few days later, I got my first writing job. Incredible. Did you ever like wind up writing for friends? No, I didn't end up writing for friends. But on my first job, strangely, one of the writers that I worked with, his name,

or I think boyfriends at the time, created Friends. And Friends was in its second season. So I was right here. The biggest hit in the world, right? The second season. It was the beginning of the second season. They hadn't even started airing the episodes yet. It was the summer before. So, you know, they'd been famous less than a year, I might add.

Okay. So I tell this guy, you know what? I actually know David Schwimmer. We went to Oxford together. We were friends. You have stories. Yes. Tons of photos. We spent the summer together, like 20 something of us. And within that 20, we were even more friendly than, you know, the rest of the guys. We were in a smaller group. Yep. So I was like, he was like, oh my God, you have to come to a taping. Come and then you'll say hi to David afterwards. Now I'd lived in LA at this

point, by the way, less than a year still. So I was so new to everything. I literally was the ingenue. I was like, oh, hello, you know, this whole new world. But I learned fast. You know, I can usually learn something once and then I'm like, got it. And so I went to the taping. I'll never forget the episode either, Kelly. It was when Rachel and Ross first kiss and they crossed the stage to each other, you know, and I was like, the audience like, oh,

So after the episode was over, my friend is like, come down on stage and you'll say hi to David. So I went down with him and I'm like, oh, my God, this is going to be so cool. And now I'm working in Hollywood, too. And we're seeing each other again. And I go up to him and we made it. We made it. Correct. Yes. Well, he made it. I clearly didn't, which I discovered very quickly later.

I was like, David, oh my God, it's Gary. And he gave me this look that was just like, you know, somebody just came up to him and like in a Starbucks and grabbed his arm, like some crazy person, you know, like what? And I'm like, oh, he's like, give him a second. And I'm like, it's, you know, from Oxford. And then, oh my God, Kelly, it was so humiliating because I couldn't stop myself from talking. I was like, I'll just say the right thing and I'll get this back on track.

I'll get the buzzer. He'll click in a minute. We'll be hugging. And at this point, too, I see Lisa Kudrow and Jennifer Aniston are looking over like, what's the weird moment David's having? Does he need to be rescued? ♪

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Fiji water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Visit your local retailer to pick up some today for your next backyard party, beach or pool day, hike or even your home office. It's not just water. It's Fiji water. It was so humiliating. And then he kind of like ended it by saying, well, I'm

I'm so sorry. I don't remember. But I'm David. It's nice to meet you. And I'm like, they're shaking his hand saying like, hey, yeah, nice to meet you, too. And my friend from work was like, oh, like that. That was awful. But, you know, in David's defense, it is possible he didn't remember me. Maybe maybe I was that unmemorable. Maybe so much had happened in his life since then that he didn't

want to reflect or didn't want. I have no idea, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say, look, maybe he just didn't. That's possible. He didn't remember me. But the truth is, I remembered everything. You know, it was such a it was such a meaningful summer to me. You know, I kind of remembered it all. Have you heard from him? No, I never. No. But weirdly, people try

I know him. It's too late. It's okay. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah. I'm not looking to like have a moment. Yeah. Right. And,

And now it's 30 years later, by the way. So it would be completely insane to say, do you remember 30? I was like, no. Right. You know, I heard during your book discussion at City Winery how you said that you didn't specifically write for Karen in Will and Grace, but you gravitated more to those episodes that were Karen-centric.

Right. Yeah. Because I think that Karen is one of the greatest heroines of all time. Yeah, I do too. She's just like,

One of the greatest. I adore, you know, Megan Mullally is she's a genius. I mean, all four of them were the greatest cast. That was the greatest cast. I think so, too. I think it's like the greatest cast on sitcoms. And Megan had a way of making the most horrible things. You could write the most horrible thing for her. And it was always funny because Megan had an innate passion.

likableness and humanity and a vulnerableness that was just innate. So she didn't have to do anything to make us feel that way. We loved her. So she could get... I've never seen anybody kind of who had the ability to kind of get away. It was just the way she delivered it all. I loved it so much. And so I really felt a kinship with Karen particularly. I remember thinking if I could get my shit together and be Karen, then life would be so much...

So let's talk about like Instagram happens and to our listeners, both of you, all of you, if you're not following at Gary Gennetti on Instagram, you are missing the point of having that fucking app. Every word you write, which is usually just a written post, is something I'm like, oh,

We all look at each other and go, oh my God, did you see Gary Gennady's post? It's like how we wake up in the morning. Did you see Gary Gennady's post? And then we laugh about it because it's always something that we've been ruminating over or something that enrages us or just something we wish we could get out of or what have you. But then you tapped into the voice of Prince George from the royal family when he was a baby. Yes, he was a kid, little young. And you started giving him a voice. Yes.

And to me, I call it peak Instagram. That was like, you know, they talk about peak TV. That was peak Instagram when you discovered the voice of Prince George. Where did it come from? How did it develop?

Did you know that it would lead to a television series? Give me everything. No. And that you would become Dame Kelly Ripa on that. That I would become Dame Kelly Ripa. Oh, good episode. Yes. Yes. You know, no, it was all accidental, Kelly. It was crazy. I saw a picture, you know, I didn't even know I was doing memes. I was like, this is what a meme is? I'm like,

Oh, I was like, I want to be with kind of a different thing because I didn't put the caption within the photo, whatever. I just saw what I, I saw photos of his first day of school and they were so expressive and he was so funny and he had such an attitude. And I was like, oh, I'm going to write a caption for this and give this kid a bit of a personality. And I just did one and it got nothing, you know, and I did like another one a few weeks later and it got a little bit more. And then I kept saying,

I'm going to try to treat this as a TV series. I'm not going to tell people this is what I'm doing, but I'm going to treat the entire Roy. I'm going to give everybody personalities. I'm going to treat this universe. And I'm going to think of every post as like a little episode and I'm going to play with the form. So it was a bit of a game for me and it just kept happening.

growing and becoming more popular. But but you know, when you write for TV, it takes like I have an idea, I have to pitch it, it's a nightmare, there's a pilot, you know, from the time it's in my head to the time that it's on TV, it's about a year, you know, something like that. And believe me, everybody has weighed in to tell me what is and is not funny about it. And it's very crazy making. So this was a way to just well, this amuses me. And here it is.

It eliminated like everything in the middle and suddenly people were responding. So there's something about having also a connection with an audience in that way by removing, you know, the stuff in the middle. I think it helped it kind of click along and I got lucky. Did HBO come to you and say, we've been following this? No. We want you to. No.

20th. 20th Television, which produced Family Guy, which from working at Family Guy for many, many years, I have a strong relationship with them. And they approached me about, hey, how about doing this as an animated show? And strangely, I've been kind of thinking right around that time, like, I think this could be something beyond this. And did you get a pushback from...

from the firm as it's now known? I mean, who even knew it was called the firm? I did not know that. You know, I didn't know it either, by the way, when I was doing it. There was so much I didn't know. I think people thought that I was some royal affixionado. People would tell me things. I'm like, I don't know. This is all nonsense. This is all fake. It's like all, I barely ever even heard them speak.

Like I have no loyal interest whatsoever. Who knows what any of them sound like? I have no idea. It's just silly. I'm like, it's satire. It's like if we live in a world where you can say this kid is going to be the king of England, I believe we also need to live in a world where we can point out how ridiculous that is.

If you can't point out how ridiculous it is, if we can only say this is the most wonderful thing in the world, these people who are billionaires, you know, who have really no jobs except for socializing is what I can make out. I don't know. But that's great. It's like I don't want to take anything away from that. But it's like we need to be able to comment satirically on that. And I guess they didn't have as big a sense of humor as us.

As one would have thought. So they knew that this show was made and they didn't like it. Correct. Does that astound you? Do you say, I, Gary Gennetti from Whitestone, am being discussed in the royal palace? Yeah, that part was kind of neat. I mean, it's amazing. How about that? You know, I'll be on the internet.

Like, no, it's so crazy. It's so ridiculous. I actually didn't think it would be a thing. Obviously, nobody directly spoke to me because that would be beneath anybody would be like they can't acknowledge it. So nobody ever has directly reached out to me. And no actual royal it's, you know, their representatives, you know, would reach out. So I'm sure it existed on the very

pop tiers of how these people interact, which is very far up from where I interact.

But, yeah, it was something that they very much wanted to go away. I thought the Brits are so known for their sense of humor. Not these Brits. The irony is there was nothing mean-spirited about the show. It was so ridiculous. Like, it was not tethered to any kind of reality as we know it. But, yeah. I keep thinking that somehow they'll see it.

Right. Because sometimes you don't know who sees what. Yeah. And maybe it's just like the palace, the firm, like justifying their jobs and like shutting down anything that involves the royals. But I keep hoping like, I don't know, like Prince Charles, King Charles now, forgive me, King Charles. It doesn't chip off the tongue. I know it's different than Diana, isn't it? Yeah, it's very different. But I keep wanting him to find it. And in my mind, he would say, well, it's not.

- Yeah, it's fine. - It's fine. - Yeah, it hasn't even aired in the UK. Internationally, it hasn't aired anywhere. It's just in the States too. - You know what I'm gonna do? - What? - I'm gonna write a letter. - Oh yes, I like that. - I'm gonna write a strongly worded letter. - Well, you are Dame Kelly Ripon now, so. - Correct. And I wanted a reprisal of my role in season two. - I know. - As you know, I sat there waiting for the script to arrive.

It would have. So let's go back to Brad. Brad Goreski, when and how did you meet? Because I sort of love your origin story. What sounds like should have been a one-night stand became...

It became love. Yes, it's the one night stand that never ended. Yeah, it's still 21 and a half years later. You know, I went to usually hiatus when you write for TVs in the spring. But I had it for the first time in years. I had a week in July where I could go away that suddenly was like where I didn't have to work. And I said to a friend two days beforehand, I'm like, let's go to Mykonos. Do you want to go to Mykonos? Let's get airline tickets and let's get on a plane and go. So that's what happened. I just went there and.

After I'd been there for a day, we went out to dinner. We were eating at Nico's Taverna, which is a very busy restaurant. Thousands of people walk by because all the streets intersect there. And we're just sitting having dinner. And I see Brad about to come down this street walking with some other man. And my eye went right to him. And I was like, who's that? I want to meet him. And my friend said, oh, that's weird. I was talking to the person that he's with earlier today on the beach. So they walked by our table and...

And my friend Sal said hello to his friend and I started talking to Brad and that was it. Like literally, that was it. We exchanged names and I remember when he said the name Brad, I was like, oh thank God, it's a good name. Like I like the name Brad. - Oh, it is a good name. Yeah, it's a good name. - I like that he's a Brad.

We hit it off instantly. And we were not apart the entire trip from that moment. We were there for a week and I came home. And like five days later, I missed him so much and he missed me. And I was like, do you want to come just for a visit? You know, he was 23 at the time and I was 34. So I was a little and I was in a career and he was, you know, nothing. I'm not nothing at all.

So he wasn't in a career. He wasn't styling yet. No, he wasn't doing anything like he was a waiter in Canada. He lived in Canada, you know, but he came for a visit. And I was very clear. I kept saying, you know, like, we're just going to see where this goes. Like, no expectations on either of us. We'll take this one day at a time. We'll be completely honest with each other. I can't promise you anything except, you know, this moment and this.

It just kept going. So we still some mornings I wake up and I'm like, you're still here. Like, how did that happen? But he had to do certain things. He went to school in order to stay in the country, you know, and then he went to school and he studied art history and he got into fashion that way. But everything he's also accomplished, he's very like us, like he did it on his own. Like, you know, I wasn't connected to really anybody in that world. And I said to him from

the beginning, I was like, I, you know, I know how quickly time can go by. And I didn't want him not to pursue his life because he was adjacent to mine, if that makes any sense. And I was afraid that that might prevent him from it because he might think he was living his own life. But if we broke up and he hadn't lived his own life, if my friends are just his friends, etc.,

But it was never. He's always had his own independent life, his own independent career. And I believe that's why we have had longevity. I mean, he's going to Paris for Fashion Week. Oh, he's got the best life. I know. You should see the stuff that gets sent here. So I think that's why what was a one night stand is still going on. But it should have never worked out, which is, you know, in reading your book, I felt very similarly about you and Mark because of

Of course, you know, it's Haley and Mateo. Really, are they going to last for, you know, over 20 years and have three children together and create this extraordinary, rich history beyond that of these very fabulous, independent careers? And yet they're still this...

Like, who would have thought the way your thing started? It should not on paper have worked out. It should not have worked. No, we say it all the time. And did your friend Sal hook up with Brad's friend? Oh, that's a good question. Do you know?

I think they did. I think they, I mean, you know. But they had a proper. It was the summer. It was the summer in Mykonos. Right. It was the summer of Mykonos. So you talk about your love of soap operas. I want you, if you can, to put you on the spot. Okay. Write your dream storyline. Oh, easy. For you in a soap opera. Easy. Multiple personalities. Oh.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Multiple personalities. The best. Yeah. First of all, you can't lose. You always win an Emmy when you have multiple personality disorder. Yeah. The really nice one who has the multiple personality, who's a monster, who has the other one that's slutty, who has the other one that's a child, you know? The best. Yeah. Total multiple personalities. And what would your character's name be? Oh, that's a good one. That's a really good one. I like the name Grayson.

You know, I think Grayson is a good... Grayson DeMarco. Yeah, I love it. Grayson DeMarco. And where does he live? Does he live in Pine Valley or where's he from originally? The big city? Yeah, I'm from Chicago or some other city. It's always some big city. Yeah. But Landview, I always... Just the city of...

Landview. I'll never forget watching once watching the show when I was probably like 14 years old and or 15 and Gabrielle Medina, you know, was the Landview when she took out the Landview phone book to look because people used phone books then to look up somebody's number. And they used a fucking New York City phone book that they just put Landview on the top of. I'm like, there's like six million people in that book.

"Lamb, you have 20 people." Like, you couldn't get a thin phone book? I was like, it would tuck me out of it, Kelly. I was so annoyed. I was like, "That's sloppy." Whoever did that. - Sloppy is right. - Yeah. - Do you remember Jimmy Mitchell?

Oh my God, of course, Palmer Cortland. Palmer Cortland. So he was my, I should have called him James Mitchell, but we called him Jimmy on the set. So he was in the dressing room next door to me and I loved and worshiped him and adored him. And he was the most gracious, elegant gentleman and yet had the driest, whippest, smart sense of humor. He would say things under his breath that would kill me.

And he did this funny thing. He never memorized his lines because there were just too many lines for him to memorize. So he would write his lines, tape them to props, and just memorize his blocking. So he would walk to his blocking and read the prop. And so when we wanted to be assholes, we would shuffle his props around. And he would, like, pick up a coffee cup and he'd be like, oh, goddammit, that's not the right prop. Yeah.

He's the best. Oh, my God. I still remember when, I think when Hayley first arrived, I remember you had the black goth hair, right? It was goth. Is that what we were called? They called me a kabuki goth girl. I remember, Kelly, the first time when I was watching One Life to Live when I was like 13. And I think at that time, sometimes if somebody was sick, they'd be like, get her in here for a day. And it was like...

I remember it was like, for this episode, the role of Victoria Buchanan will be played by, and I was like, what? What? - Okay, let me just say this. - I was like, what's happening? - On a soap opera, you know how you see people dancing to music? - Yes. - You know, if they're at a club or there's a waltz, the nurse's ball on General Hospital or whatever.

There is no music playing. A stage manager will count you down. They'll let you hear the song, but then that's it. The music goes off, stage manager counts down, and everybody starts dancing, right? The only thing that actors hear in real time on a soap is the door opens,

The role of Mateo Santos will now be played by Kurt Cresceris. And you sit there, you open the door, pause, pause, pause, while the announcer says that. And then you go, Mateo, what are you doing here? Why do you look so different?

I mean, that's the magic of soaps. I love it so much, but I was like, I always was loyal to the first actor that was on. I was always like, you know. Me too. I would get very twisted when they would switch them willy-nilly. I got very twisted about it. I didn't like it. Even when it was necessary, I wanted no excuses. No excuses. So before we wrap up, because I know that you have to go, I want to say a couple of things. Number one, I really do think that you need to write a soap opera.

Okay. But like a zany,

nighttime soap opera, like in the glory days of Not Slanding Dallas. I think you need to write that. Number two, I think you need your own talk show. I really believe that you are a void that needs to be filled because I just think you're such a good communicator. Oh, well, coming from you, that is high praise indeed. Thank you, Kelly. I want to tell everyone to pick up Start Without Me and

Do you mind if I cancel by Gary Cianetti? Pick up both of those books and don't forget to go see Gary on his speaking tour. It really is...

Just the best, most entertaining show I've seen in a really long time. Thank you so much. Thank you so much again for coming, too. Thanks for being delightful. Aw. Thanks for having me. Tell Mark I said hi. I will. And thank you for not canceling. I never would you, Kelly. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Well, Albert and Jan. It's like you just want to be friends with that man and live next door to him in the same building. You just want to see him all the time. And you know everything's beautiful and elegant. Yeah. And they're just so nice. Yes. They're nice. And it's just his neuroses. It just speaks to me in such a real way. I almost made you tell your coming out story again. Oh.

It makes me feel like we could have named the show Don't Peek in high school because I feel like the resounding, like what we're hearing from everybody is like all these people we love and admire. In high school, they just felt lost. Is it too late for us to change the title of the show? It's too late, Kelly.

That was so good. Hey, guys, tell all of your friends about Let's Talk Off Camera. It's available on the SXM app and all major podcast listening platforms. Can't wait to talk off camera with you guys again. Bye-bye. Woo! Woo!

Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a co-production of Melojo Productions and PRX Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music. From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Julia Desch.

From PRX Productions, our team is... The executive producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzalez. This show is powered by Stitcher. From PRX...

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