Bob Iger: The Empire Strikes Back 58:43

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No, I don't. I don't have fears. Okay, that's good. I fear being interviewed by a talk show host and a lengthy podcast. You can't tell me this has not been the greatest interview of your life. Somebody got to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay.

Let me just say something Bob this is not typically how we do this typically we're in my son's bedroom And we look like a pack of slobs Yes

No, no, no. I mean, you're still dressed up for us. Like, this is dressy compared to how we normally look. Okay, so everybody sit like, Jan, sit like a normal person. Albert, sit like a normal person. We're going to look like we're working. Albert's wearing pretentious Gwyneth Paltrow glasses. My breathing vision is gone. Mm-hmm.

Everybody's acting normal. This is very exciting. So you say. Okay, we're going to get right to it. Everyone, we are back with another scintillating episode of Let's Talk Off Camera, so let's get talking. Today we are joined by a guest so powerful, so important, so actually above what we do here. He's the most influential guest we've ever had on this podcast, so that's why we have moved the podcast out of Michael's bedroom and

and moved it into this swanky podcast studio. Who even knew we had a podcast? Who are we right now? We are here in the ABC building, owned by none other than the guy we are talking to today. He is big time. Albert, I mean big time. Massive. Massive. Jan? Jan wore slacks today. Okay?

Jan typically is in a sloppy pair of sweatpants. I wore a jacket. I'm always sweaty. I mean, my God, this is... You're wearing a jacket and Gwyneth Paltrow trial glasses. So we've got the big boss here today. He's got, you know, BDE, as we like to say. Big Disney energy. Thank you.

Don't panic, Bob. This is what, G-rated or PG? This is an all-rated. We appeal to everyone here. He's the CEO of the Walt Disney Company. We are talking about Bob Iger. Bob Iger. So, Jan Albert, I think because Bob's

Time is money. Money is time. We should jump right in with the most pertinent questions that we have, and we have a lot. Bob, not to quote a non-Disney movie, but there's a famous line in The Godfather 3, but Al Pacino famously says, just when I got out, they pulled me back in. Is this not, in fact, what happened to you when you prematurely announced...

Your departure. Michael Corleone has always been my idol. Yes, right. Yes. I've always wanted to follow in his footsteps. And so that's what I was doing. Actually, it was not my intention to be pulled back in. Maybe that's always the case. And I don't want to sound like I'm protesting too much. But I retired willingly and happily in 2021.

I tasted retirement for 11 glorious months, let me say, learning that the world could be perfectly stimulating and stress-free, which is not an experience that I was used to. And then the call came from the chairman of the board, Susan Arnold, on a Friday saying, we need you to come back. And I felt a company that I started working for in 1974, 50 years ago, July 1, 100%.

hard to believe, that I owed it to the company that meant so much to me and had been so good to me to answer the call, really. And that was a Friday and it was announced on Sunday night. We all know where we were. But again, it was not my intention, meaning I retired with an intent to stay retired. And I guess I failed retirement. Bob, come on, between you and me.

Between you and me. And the rest of the podcast listeners. You were getting bored. Come on. How many bicycles can you ride? How many places in the world can you visit? That's actually, you know, it's exaggerated by many that I was bored. I was not bored at all. I loved the fact that I did not have a to-do list that was a mile long, that I didn't wake up in the middle of the night feeling that I was late for my next meeting, which often happened, or that I was missing a plane.

that I could read the paper and not keep looking at my watch in the morning because I had to get someplace. I had enough stimulation, fortunately,

There were enough people in the world that still had some interest in me and wanted to keep me engaged. But I really didn't have anything to feel stressed about. And that was quite a luxurious feeling. And so when you decide to give all of that up, and I know that you actually are a very thoughtful person and you weigh everything and you have your consigliere, Willow,

at home. Do you run this conversation by her? Do you explain to her, remember all of that time that I was going to make up for...

all the laundry I promised you I would fold. Do you have that discussion? The glorious pasta meals I was going to make for her when she came home from a hard day at work. How did that discussion go? Well, I think, you know, you're right to use the word consigliere. There's no one, I think you can relate to this because your relationship with Mark, there's no one more important to me than Willow in my life.

And I do speak with her about all important decisions and she does the same to me. I also respect her opinion, value her opinion tremendously. So the call from the chairman of the board was scheduled a couple of days earlier. And so I posed the question to Willow basically, what do you think she wants? And Willow said, I don't think they want you to come back.

Or something along those lines. Oh, come on. I wish I was there. I would have been like, they definitely are. Well, so I asked the question, well, what if they do ask me to come back? And she said, without one second of hesitation, you have to say yes. And that meant a lot to me because I think she had a very strong sense that if they ask that I should feel obligated to.

And I said, well, tell me why. And she said, well, you love the company. They wouldn't ask you back if they didn't need you. And actually, those words meant so much to me because her instinct on things is something I respect so much. It's interesting. You know, I've known you a long time and you're one of the most hands-on executives that I've ever met. Like, you are very aware of everything that's going on in the business and not just the

the parks departments or the movie studios or negotiations with the unions. You're aware of, you know, when Gelman dresses up like Madonna on our show, things like that. Like you are in the details. So your first day of retirement, did you sleep in? Did you totally check out of everything? Or were you still acutely aware of everything that was going on from afar? I would say...

Turning it all off and that awareness took a little time. So it wasn't exactly abrupt, but it happened faster than one would expect it would. Because suddenly, by the way, not only is it not yours, you're quickly reminded that the office you had for how many years you were renting, you didn't own. The same thing with the title. And I was preparing myself for that.

It's hard for me to remember at this point because it feels like I never left. Right, exactly. You know, it's funny too because I was in my office in New York this morning. I walked in. I opened the cabinet remembering what was in the cabinet before I retired. But all those things were gone because I moved everything out and I didn't move them back in. No kidding. And I thought, oh, this is empty. But I remember exactly what was there. What do you think other Bob kept in there? Do you think he kept anything in there?

- I don't know. I just don't know. Not for me to comment on. - So I was at this lunch yesterday and there were a lot of like heavy hitter Hollywood people there. I know it's very unusual for me to attend a lunch like that, but there they were. - In the Hamptons? - In the Hamptons, yeah. Or Long Island as we like to call it so as to not sound like assholes. And so it was very funny. I had mentioned that I was talking to you for the podcast

And everyone there had the same universal sentiment. They all believe you should run for president. They all thought that you would run for president when you left the company for your brief hiatus.

Is that something that people approach you about often? It is. And first of all, let me set the record straight right away. I'm not running for president. Are you sure? I am absolutely positive. You don't want to announce that here. No, I am not announcing anything. If you announce it somewhere else, I'm going to be very upset. I am going to haunt your dreams. Well, I could promise you the scoop, but you'll be forever unfulfilled in that regard. Yeah.

I'm not running for president. It is something that people over the years have mentioned often and some quite powerful people, including people in government. And it is something that I seriously considered twice when...

once in 2015 before the Trump-Hillary Clinton election. And Willow was adamant about me not doing that for very deep personal reasons. She basically said, you can run for any office in the land, but not with this wife. That's kind of how she put it. And interesting, at the time, the premise that I had was that America was ready for an outsider in

and was tired of kind of the same old people and political parties. And in a way, I was right. America elected an outsider, and Donald Trump, he did not come from the Washington world. So the second time was 2017. And, well, my premonition about America electing an outsider came true. And I thought, well, maybe I'll give it a shot this next time around.

And I studied it quite seriously, meaning I took time to meet with a lot of people and do some research on it and see whether it was even plausible. And actually people who shall be nameless, but a few elected officials came forward and encouraged me to do so and suggested they would give me their full support and

And I was thinking about it, but I was far from making the decision to do it when the opportunity for the Walt Disney Company to buy assets from Rupert Murdoch and 20th Century Fox came up, which was a large acquisition and one that I knew if I had recommended to the board, they would say, rightfully so, well, you're supposed to leave Disney.

I was thinking at that time I was supposed to leave the end of 18. If we're going to make this acquisition, you have to agree to stay. In fact, Rupert Murdoch had the same thoughts.

Because he was taking stock in the Walt Disney Company. And I put that over everything else. And I was not, again, let me stress the fact that I had not decided to run for president, but I was taking it seriously. And what did Willow say the second time around? Was she more on board the second time? I would say on board would be a bit of an overstatement, but not... Not threatening divorce. No, not opposed in the sense that...

I think the way she said it is, when I married you, I gave my vows, went for better or for worse, for whatever, richer or for poorer. I guess it would have become poorer. Right, right, right. A lot poorer. Yes. But it was along the lines of, look, I married you and I owe it to you to support your various endeavors and dreams. Yeah.

I wouldn't say she was fully supportive, but she was not going to fight me. She would have made an incredible first lady, don't you think? Yeah. Well, look. She's so accomplished in her own right. Yes. Yes. It's funny because I was one of the people that I met with at the time, shall be nameless, but-

Consider them a powerful member of the Democratic Party. Bill Clinton? At the time, not going to say. He said to me, you should run for president. And I said, tell me why. And his first words out of his mouth were, well, you look the part. I said, give me a break. That's not enough. And then he said, and your wife really looks the part. It's definitely Clinton. It was not. I've never discussed running for president with Bill Clinton. Was it Hillary Clinton? No.

You don't even get 10 guesses. I don't get 10 guesses? This is my podcast.

We can spend the rest of the podcast time guessing. I know. We can. We're not going to. Let's move on. So there's this... We've got this event coming up. Oh, Disney Legends. Disney Legends. Now, listen to this, Jan and Albert, because I want you to show me the reverence I deserve, which, frankly, is always missing. There is no living with me now. Now, Disney Legends, I did not know...

was a real thing. So I want you to know, here are the honorees, some of the honorees. I'll just give you the highlights. Angela Bassett, Harrison Ford, Frank Oz, James Cameron, my personal favorite, John Williams, because I never met him and I just think he's- We have to come back to John Williams. Genius living amongst us. Yes. And then for a curve ball of all curve balls-

And again, one of the moments where I thought Deborah O'Connell was playing an April Fool's prank on me, I am an honoree.

For your work on all my children. For my work on all my children. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. That's what I was getting to. Why me? You needed a real person in there to sort of stabilize. There's a lot of greatness, but then they're like, okay, how do we honor regular people? Kelly. Yes. Well, first of all, Disney Legends is basically the equivalent of a Disney Hall of Fame. It is, really. And when you think about the Walt Disney Company, a company that's over 100 years old, it's

There are many people that have had just a huge impact on the company and because of the company's position on the world, on the world, and that have contributed mightily not just to our success but to what we represent to the world.

And you named a few, Harrison Ford, obviously, Indiana Jones, Han Solo, James Cameron for his work on Avatar, among other things. And if you look over the years at people that we've named, Peter Jennings and Diane Sawyer and Barbara Walters to name a few, but also Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews and

voices of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, and we could go on and on. And when you think about your contributions, how long you've been doing live for now, how long? Live, this is my 25th year. Yeah. So that's 25 years. And think of the number, just the sheer amount of time you've been on the air. Yeah.

Probably when you add that up, it's right up there. Thousands of years. But you haven't aged a bit. I was waiting to figure out where I was. I'm in a medically induced state of youth. But I thought about it because ultimately I approve this list.

We'll be there for the event. And actually, I thought, well, why didn't we think of that earlier? You actually have been worthy for a while. And I think it speaks volumes about not only you but the show, too, that you've been on now for so long and that we value. It's not just sitting in a chair and saying good morning every morning. I think it's who you are and what you represent. And you've done other things for the company, too. Well, I've spent my entire career at this company. Like, I've never –

As have I. I will say, you know, ABC was where I started at all my children, but I think it was my second year with the company that Disney...

95. Okay, so my fifth year. It was the summer of 95. My fifth year in the company, Disney took over. And so I really have spent my entire career working for one company. And first of all, it's a very rare thing for a performer such as myself. But it's an even rarer thing for a company to not expel people when their sell-by date is

is issued. And I think that is part of your great vision and why it's a privilege to work here is because there is sort of a unity in all of us. We all see the value in what we're doing. We all see the greatness that is working within this company. Well, I can relate in many ways because I started as what was called a studio supervisor, the equivalent of a production assistant of sorts.

Actually, I worked on All My Children and One Life to Live when they were 30-minute shows in a small studio across the street from where we're sitting today. And here I am actually 50 years later. Now, we were bought by Disney in 95, as you referenced. So I never did a resume. I started one company, and I'm still at the company.

Anyway, it's nice to share that experience with you. It's so funny because I always think the job is the reward. And I never thought I had imposter syndrome until Debra presented me with the letter from you with your very funny note that made me laugh and I made Mark read it. Because when I saw my name alongside the other names, I just immediately, for the first time ever in my life, felt like,

I don't belong here. These people are the definition of greatness. And I just go to work every day and do my job. But I honestly feel like my job is the gift. I don't deserve an honor on top of the honor. Well, I think one of the reasons you're as successful is people relate to you and believe that you're talking to them or with them. And I think that's really one of your superpowers.

And I guarantee you that I think there'll probably be about, I don't know, 5,000 to 10,000 people. I know that's a big range in the audience.

When you get this, because it's happening, I think, at the Honda Center in Anaheim. I'm going to need a Klonopin. I need a Klonopin. You know, we'll have a shot. We'll do shots before. I guarantee the applause for you will be just as loud and just as supportive as Harrison Ford and all the other people that you mentioned. Oh, Bob, I can guarantee you that won't happen. No, you will see. But I will have my... I've been to many of these. I'll make sure my kids cheer. So here's my... Just if you don't mind, a quick John Williams story. Yeah.

which is also about me. In June of 2022, I got a call from someone at Buckingham Palace in the UK telling me that I was being named Honorary Knight of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth and that one other person was getting that distinction then, and that was John Williams.

And we were both told, we compared notes, that be quiet about it. At some point, it'll be formalized, and then we'll figure out a ceremony. That was in June. Queen Elizabeth died in September. And so I wondered, well, there goes my knighthood. Right. And soon after she died, Buckingham Palace put out a press release that said Queen Elizabeth II is named John Williams and Robert Iger Knights of the British Empire. Wow.

And when you're not a citizen of the empire or the commonwealth, then you're called an honorary knight. But I found out the first question I had is, is the bling the same? And the answer was yes. The bling was the same. And the whole ceremony with the... Well, so it turns out it took a long time, but I was at Windsor Castle last month.

And I got my knighthood. Wait, so are you Sir Bob Ivor? No. Well, so because I'm not a citizen of the Commonwealth, I'm what's called a KBE, which is Knight of the British Empire, but I'm honorary. So that means I'm not a sir. But I'm still going to call you Sir Bob. Whatever you like. Sir Bob is the intro. That is Sir Bob Ivor. But I got this glorious knighthood.

beautiful leather box and in it are these a pin and a metal that you with a ribbon that you wear around your neck which I should have brought in today I know I got show and tell it says for God and the Empire on it oh my gosh pretty cool and John Williams and I were the last two people knighted by Queen Elizabeth incredible the empire strikes back that's a good one

That's amazing. Isn't that cool? So, wait, so, okay, so you get home, you get back to LA from London and you come in in your, you're in your trench coat. I don't know why, you're in a trench coat. You're not in a Ming stole, you're in a trench coat. You're in a sensible businessman trench coat and you open it up. So, Willow says, how was it? She was with me. Oh, all right. Well,

Well, never mind. Now, my story is to say you didn't rip off the trench coat and the medals there. I haven't worn it. I haven't worn it. It stays in the box, which sits on a desk in my office at home. You're going to wear it to the Disney Legends ceremony, though, right? You've got to wear it. I don't know when I'll wear it. You've got to wear it. Maybe never, but as bling goes, it's right up there. It's really beautiful. I have to see it. Okay, so now that I'm a Disney Legend...

Does that mean that I am in Club 33? And for our listeners, what is Club 33? A thousand bucks you'll get. What is Club 33? Club 33 is really a restaurant and I'll call it lounge bar that is up above an area at Disneyland called New Orleans Square, which is where Pirates of the Caribbean is.

And it is a club that people join and pay to join, although there's a waiting list a mile long. It gives you basically privileges to have dinner there, or I guess there's lunch as well, or go and have a drink in the middle of the day. Like a nice drink. Yes, a really nice drink. Actually, the food is quite good. And this was established by Walt Disney himself. It was his idea. Yeah.

And it's very popular, meaning there's a long waiting list for people to get in. Even the legends? The legends don't get priority placement on the list? I'm not sure. I don't know what comes with a legend award before. Besides two things, you get a great statue and you get your hands imprinted.

And that goes up in what's called Legends Plaza, which is on the Disney lot in Burbank. Wow. Where we have – they're basically plaques with handprints. And you'll be up there with a variety of different Disney legends that will make you proud. Really incredible. And are you – let me ask you this. Are you a Disney legend? No, I'm not.

When will you be made a Disney director? I don't know. I don't know even how that decision gets made. I mean, can't we here make that decision, Jan? It's done. It's done. Now that I'm a knight, I should be a legend, right? Sir Bob Iger belongs front and center. Well, whatever. I mean, so growing up, like I remember in 1973-

My dad, who was a bus driver for 30 years, taking that trip to Disney World. We drove to Florida. It was like the family's life savings. It was 1973. So soon after Disney opened. It just opened. It was like it was this magical thing. My grandmother came with us. We drove in the car. We stayed at Howard Johnson's halfway through. Oh, wow.

And I was young, but I still remember it like it was yesterday. It was the most impactful thing I had ever done. And then many years later, bringing my parents with their grandkids back and watching them relive it all was very emotional for me.

Do you have a memory like that? Are you so involved in it now that, like, there is no more magic like that for you, or is it still magical? Well, it's definitely magic, both in terms of my own memory, which we'll get to. But what I get to do is I get to visit our parks around the world.

and see people basically creating the memories that you just described. And it's a visceral feeling that I have when I see it. It's hard to not feel great about the joy that you see on these faces, grandparents and their kids and their grandchildren and friends and people celebrating. The whole thing is a celebration in a way.

A family vacation in a way. They don't all end up celebratory. So that, I think I derive a tremendous amount of not just personal satisfaction that's tied to my job, but just a tremendous amount of energy and appreciation when I see that. In my case, so I'm going to be 74. Can't believe that. I grew up in the 50s.

Walt Disney actually had a TV show. There was a Mickey Mouse Club, which was on in the afternoon, but on Sunday nights he had a TV show that I would watch as a kid, you know, five years old. I was four, actually, I guess, when Disneyland opened in California. I remember actually watching Walt describe what he was building there.

Disneyland with Adventureland and Frontierland and Fantasyland and pictures of a monorail, which was so out there. And Tomorrowland with space flight and everything. I didn't get to go to Disneyland, actually. I just came from family with very modest means. And we lived in

Long Island, New York, and traveling to California. There wasn't a Disney World in Florida. It was just unheard of for still going cross-country, but we couldn't afford it. So I didn't go to Disneyland until my college years, until I was in college. And I remember that well, too. So my memories were mostly Disney on television and going to Disney movies. Yeah. Walt Disney was obviously a visionary. Yeah.

And I think in a lot of ways you share that with him because you took what he built and you grew it exponentially in a way that I don't think that even Walt could have comprehended. You had a real vision for the entertainment side of things, growing the parks, growing them all simultaneously and feeding one off of the other.

Do you have like a favorite project that you spearheaded? The people said, "You can't do that. It's crazy. It's nuts." And then it became the biggest success?

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Do you have like a favorite project that you spearheaded? The people said, you can't do that. It's crazy. It's nuts. And then it became the biggest success? Yes. There are probably, you know, over the years, I guess I was CEO from 2005 to whenever, and then again. I guess I've been CEO now for almost 20 years in a way. And so there have been a lot of things that have happened during my tenure that I'm particularly proud of.

Some you kind of referenced tangentially. Obviously, spearheading the acquisitions of Marvel and Pixar and then Lucasfilm, which brought a Star Wars right up there in terms of things that I'm proud of. Really, really supporting and pushing the team to make Black Panther was something that I'm very proud of. And movie Coco, I'm proud of. But also building Disneyland in Shanghai, which is a personal passion of mine, to

to plant the Disney brand flag in China that's been enormously successful. I mean, those are among them.

But, you know, over the years, so much has transpired. You know, buying those assets I talked about from 20th Century Fox, which brought us... I was thinking about it, because not to brag, but the company got 183 Emmy nominations last week. I know, it's amazing. And two shows dominated categories. One was Shogun, and the other one was The Bear. That both came to us from FX, and FX came with the acquisition. Right. So I was thinking about it. You take...

that acquisition away. And I don't know what it would have brought our remedy count down to in terms of nominations. So there's just a lot over the years. And in going back to Walt, you know, Walt had big dreams, but he never felt that the dreams were impossible really to turn into reality. And I love that quality about him. I never met him. He died in the mid 60s.

But I love the fact that, particularly at the Walt Disney Company, that one, it's okay to have big dreams. And it is not okay to tell people, oh, that's just a big dream. That'll never happen. In fact, what is okay is to support someone's ability or intention to turn a dream into a reality.

We'd like to do that both for ourselves as a company, but also for our audiences and our guests and our customers. Is there ever a project that you...

that wasn't successful or that failed in some way that you regret? Well, I'd say I have my fair share of failures. Fortunately, I think the successes probably added up to a greater number than the failures. They're a better headline. The successes are a better headline. But yes, I mean, I programmed ABC in primetime for quite some time and there were plenty of shows that I spearheaded that didn't work. Which show didn't work the most that you still think about like one?

Why didn't that work? Well, actually, one that sort of best of times, worst of times was a show called Twin Peaks, which was completely ahead of its time. We developed the pilot in 1989 and put it on television in 1990. And it was this gigantic success quickly. It broke such new ground in terms of storytelling and primetime television for a network. This is also...

Before HBO was established as the HBO that we came to know it, and now with streaming and these phenomenal shows, Game of Thrones, these...

wildly ambitious, big, epic shows. And it was ahead of its time. And then it failed terribly in the second season. And I was sorry about that because it had such promise. I championed a show called Cop Rock, which was a police... Oh, Cop Rock. Yes. Who would have thought Stephen Bochco, who did Hill Street Blues and L.A. Law for NBC and Doogie Howser for us, pitched the idea of a singing police musical. Sing.

sounded like a good idea. Well, America did not think it was a good idea. What was it up against? It doesn't even matter. It could have been up against nothing and it wouldn't have worked. No, but it was up against something so strange. And you're like, who would think that Cop Rock would fail, but this show would succeed? But do you know a show is not going to work before it goes out into the lineup? Do you have a sense?

Sometimes. And you think, oh dear, it's too late to change our minds. Sometimes. That was one where it was just so out there in terms of boldness. And I don't ever want to

basically call something that is so bold impossible. You know, you take a shot and you just, and in order to take the shot, you have to have such strong belief in it. And I decided I would not let my beliefs be doused before it actually came to fruition. Well, they were doused right away. The rest of America, America voted resoundingly against it. Right. So I'm going to take you, I'm going to walk you through a scenario. There's a movie called Force Majeure.

Okay? This is a pitch? No. Have you ever seen this movie, Force Majeure? No, I know of- It's a foreign film, and it's about a husband who is sitting with his wife and two small children, and an avalanche starts coming towards them. She grabs the children, and the husband gets up and runs. He runs away. Turns out it was a false avalanche.

And everything is fine. And the dust settles. And she gets up. And she and the children are very much alive. And they just were covered with a little snow. And they sit down. And they finish their lunch. And then the husband comes back and sits at the table with them. But they know that he ran away. The reason I bring this up is when you made an announcement that you were

going to sell linear television. I see. This is a scenario that I'm painting a picture. Now you're going to sell linear television to the highest bidder but then lo and behold nobody wants us. So now are you the

You're the husband coming back to the table. This is the time when the interview turns from friendly... It was friendly and now... I was trying to come up with a scenario. Am I still your boss? You are still my boss. You're still my boss, but what do you have against linear television? What have we ever done?

Oh, why? It's funny because I thought where you're going was, okay, if you're the wife, would you dump that husband? No, I wouldn't dump the husband. I'm still here at the table. First of all, I didn't say we were going to sell. So you're misquoting me. No, I am misquoting the headlines, yes. I did an interview where I was...

intent on communicating to Wall Street an open-mindedness in general about our business in the future. And I wanted them to know, this is after I came back to Disney, that my head was not in the sand, meaning I was not in denial about the changes that occurred in our business and

That were making it tougher to do business. And so I just wanted to show that I've not got my head in the sand. I'm a realist about it. And everything's on the table, I think I said. That was a mistake, it turns out. I wasn't wrong about my observation, but it wasn't necessary for me to utter.

utter those words publicly because it created an incredible amount of anxiety. And I should have been more sensitive to how those words would be, not just interpreted, but how they would be felt by people who are really important to me, who are even Disney legends. Can I tell you honestly, these guys can attest to

I was the one person not panicked about. Like, I truly was not panicked because I think that I've been around long enough to analyze an interview. I really do. But I do like the force majeure comparative because it brings us to other things I want to ask you. Go for it. Were you in the lightning round yet? This is almost the lightning round. So let's say Mark and I

are sitting at the table and the avalanche is coming. And you, Bob Iger, can only save one of us. Who do you pull out of the avalanche? Mark Consuelos or Kelly Ripa? Dame Kelly Ripa, if you will. Dame Kelly Ripa.

Oh, that's a real question? It's a real question. Well, I actually, let's see. I got to be careful here not to be sexist. I was going to say, well, Mark, I probably would trust he would be able to save himself. Yes. Oh, well, he would flee, first of all. I know you...

value or you honor your own body in terms of staying in shape and probably just as capable as Mark, but I don't know, given your size, you might need a little help. I don't know. I'd be easier to get out. I'm trying to get out of this gracefully. I've got another one. By the way, this is such conjecture. No, these are great questions. This is what people want to know. The avalanche is coming. Okay, here comes the avalanche again. And now...

At the table is live the frothy morning chat show, the number one talk show in America. Saucy. And at the other side of the table is American Idol. Okay. Okay.

You can only save one of these two shows because the avalanche is going to eat one of these two shows. Now, just keeping in mind, this is Ryan Seacrest's favorite podcast. Which show are you digging out of the avalanche? I think definitely live because, you know, Ryan, he could always turn to Wheel of Fortune. Wheel of Fortune, right. They need him more than ever. Yeah. So he's got something to fall back on. So you save live. Whatever.

Jan, do you have any questions? I just freaked out the American Idol people. No, no, no. Don't you worry. Don't you worry. Jan, any questions for Bob Iger? Well, I do love that Deborah O'Connell, who was here, was so important to us and how you saw everything she brings and elevated her in this company. So what qualities do you look for in someone when you're promoting within?

Well, there are many qualities, and Debra possesses all of them. First of all, I love someone that has a passion for the business that we're in, that is not cynical about it, even though they've been around a while, that gets up in the morning, comes to work with just as much enthusiasm as they had the first day they started. Debra has that. Also, I love how much she engages both with people and the work that they do. She is aware of what is going on and how people contribute, and she...

connects with them over that, over her passion or interest in them and in the business. I love her curiosity. I think that's very important in anyone that you hire, particularly in a world that changes so much. You can't innovate without being curious about where the world is going, what the future looks like. She's got plenty of that. There's a genuine quality about her, just the authenticity that oozes from her pores almost, and a kindness, too, to people. She treats people with respect.

and trust until they prove that they're not worthy of it.

So those are among the many. And that's interesting because I met with Deb before I did this, and we were talking about just being decisive. People want decisions. Even if the decision is not popular or not personally advantageous, you want someone who you're working for to make a decision, and she's great at that. So those are among the things that I look for in promoting people from within and hiring people. She also, in a very Disney way, comes –

from a point of view of why everything can be possible versus why it can't be possible. And you know that if something is not possible, it's actually not possible because she really does try to find resolutions for everything. I'm so glad you brought that up because one of the reasons I'm where I am today in terms of my career is great mentorship. I work for people who were just tremendous teachers and

One of them was Tom Murphy, who ran Capital Cities ABC. Another one was Michael Eisner, I worked for for 10 years. And another one was someone named Ruan Arledge, who was head of ABC Sports and then News. And when I worked for him, if he asked you to do something, I'm not talking about anything that would require a lapse in integrity or judgment. You basically pulled out every stop to give him a yes to say, we can do this. He would not take no for an answer. And that

forced me at an impressionable age or stage in my career to work even harder to get stuff done. And sort of the power of yes. And over the years, people have said, well, we can't do that. And quickly, I get so disdainful of, well, go ahead and try. Try. Anyway, Deb is that way. Deb, Deborah is that way. She's really changed our lives around here. And especially during the pandemic, we talk about it often. Yeah.

At a time where there was so much loss, Deborah kept everything here up and running and basically moved into the control booth. I mean, she would be there. We would log in from our computers and see her in a hazmat suit in the control booth running everything. And it was extraordinary to watch her. And it didn't matter what hour of the day or night, there she was doing her job.

And like Jan said, we are so appreciative that you recognize that in her. Now, when you talk about the future of the company, do you think about a succession plan or are you gun shy of a succession plan because the first time it didn't work out? Well, I think it would be safe to assume that I think about this all the time. I'd say that I'm obsessed with it would be probably an understatement.

And actually, the board and I established when I returned that that would be among our biggest, if not our biggest priority. It's actually something that I'm obviously very focused on, not just because of the past, but because I'd like to retire again. And I'd like to leave the company in great hands.

And that is my intention. And I'm now confident that not only will we do that, but we'll do so on a timely basis that works for the company and hopefully works for me as well. But yes, it's a huge priority. Will it be one of your sons? No, my son's, interestingly enough, are both interested in parts of the business in a way, but no, it will not be. I thought we'd get a scoop. I thought for sure we'd get a scoop. This is not the royal family. She wants to put the music.

I do. We just want a reason to drop in the music from Succession. You know, because you have achieved such great success, and we know a lot of successful people. We've interviewed them. We've had them on this podcast. We've had them in the studio for the talk show.

How hard is it for you, or was it not difficult at all, to raise children that are motivated and self-starters? How difficult is it? Well, it's interesting you say that. I'm sure we can relate in many ways, too, because our upbringing was different in a way. Willow and I both have worked really hard to make sure that our boys appreciate the

that what we have achieved, we earned in a way. I'm a big believer in meritocracy and earning what you get, working for what you get. And while I have said there are elements of luck that take over, and I'm not talking about the luck to be born into a family, I'm talking about luck that happens along the way with bosses that are great or opportunities. But for the most part, it all has come as a result of just plain hard work.

And we've tried to instill in them that value that you just don't get anywhere without working hard, without showing up. And we also, we believe in walking the talk. I think they see firsthand. They see their parents working. How hard we work, how committed we are, how much we care, how dedicated we are. Something I think we're both quite proud of. It didn't happen by accident. You know, it happened because of what we put into it. And so far, so good with them. Our boys both seem...

really motivated. I only hope that their expectations for themselves are reasonable, because frankly, you know, what's happened to me is unusual in the sense that

You know, I've had the tremendous privilege to have the opportunity to show what I can do at the point we were talking about earlier at a company like this, where doors, there are so many doors that could open and they opened and look what I end up doing because of it. I hope they have as much luck as I had along the way in that regard. But it's also quite possible they won't be the CEO of a

big global brand and a company like Disney, and that won't mean that their lives are unfulfilled or a disappointment to them. And that's the only thing I worry about a little bit. Yeah, so that they don't feel like a failure by your myriad success at the same place. You know, it's such a rare thing. But I think that what you should know is that behind your back, your sons, whom I've met like...

Just randomly on the street or at a cocktail party are divine representatives of you both. Thank you. Kind and thoughtful and not the snooty, presumptuous kids of Hollywood elites. They are real...

clearly hardworking, lovely gentlemen, both of them. Well, thank you very much. And that's not when you're around. You know what I mean? It's easy to straighten up when your folks are around, but it's another thing. That's very nice to hear. I'm proud of them in that regard, and my wife deserves a lot of credit for that too. Yeah. So, okay.

We've got a couple of just random funny questions for you. Rapid fire. Okay, these are rapid fire questions. As the big cheese of this company, what is your favorite type of cheese?

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As the big cheese of this company, what is your favorite type of cheese? I like mozzarella. Oh, yeah. Or burrata. Wait, have you made your own yet? Have you learned? No, I've not. No, I've made my own pizza, but I've not made my own mozzarella. Okay, well, Jimmy Kimmel can teach you how to make your own. Jimmy, yes. He's the expert. I would go to him. Okay, if you could be any superhero in a Marvel movie, who would you want to be?

Well, I joke about this because often I'm asked, if there ever was a movie about your life, who would you want to play you? And I always say Chris Hemsworth. He does play Thor. Now, I don't really want to be Thor, but Chris Hemsworth. Wouldn't you want you to play you? Like, you look like a movie star. Oh, come on. No, but people say that a lot. It's not just me. Everyone says it. So I've gone from president to movie star. To movie star. To king, or no, to whatever. Well, I have, listen, I've got a lot of thoughts.

No. Anyway, I think you should play you. What's the last thing you binge watched? Oh, binge watch. You know, I binge watch our shows, The Bears Season 3. It's an extraordinary show. Extraordinary. Chris Storr and that team. Oh, yeah. Jeremy Allen White. But the talent on that show, both on camera and behind, sensational. Yep.

What is the music you listen to in the car or at the gym?

So I have a very eclectic musical taste. I do gravitate more to the classic rock genre because I'm a kid of the 60s, mostly 50s, 60s. Doesn't make any sense. So I listen to a lot of classic rock, but alt rock, a lot of recent alternative music. But I'm also known to put on some jazz, listen to some country. I like New Country, Zach Bryan, for instance, and that generation of country music.

I'll even listen to Italian arias and opera. I'll go all over the place. But if the thing that happens first usually or the channel or the station, I'll give Sirius a plug. I listen to Sirius a lot. You're talking about the Beatles, the bridge, you know, good classic rock station. This is not on the list, but I'm looking at you and you've referenced your age a couple of times.

What percentage of you is medically induced youth, genetically induced youth, or just like good, clean living exercise, meditation induced youth? Okay. Well, no medically induced. None. Other than the fact that I've had two hip replacement and a knee. So I'm a little bionic. Bionic. Yeah. But no, I think a lot of it is genes. Yeah.

And a lot of it is just taking care of myself. Yeah, my gosh. Exercise. You look really good. Thank you. As a person who's completely medically induced, I think you should know.

Well, I have time. Yeah. Okay. There's always time, and I've got all the doctors right in my back pocket. What's your go-to karaoke song? I can't picture you singing karaoke. Oh, I don't sing karaoke, but I sing. You sing. Okay. What do you sing? I'll disclose something very quickly. When my wife turned 50, I thought, well, what do I get my wife for her 50th birthday? So I practiced the Frank Sinatra song.

The Way You Look Tonight for six months and went into a studio and recorded it, and I gave that as a 50th birthday present. It's unbelievable. And then she turned 60. I know she's probably sensitive, but what the heck? And I sang I Get a Kick Out of You. I get a kick out of you.

Are these songs available on iTunes starting today? I mean, we need these songs. We need you to release these songs. That's incredible. So who was your first celebrity crush when you were a kid? Well, Annette Funicello, who was a mascoteer in the 50s, would be one of them. Probably there were many back then. That was my first. That was your first. What was your first car?

I had a 1963 Plymouth convertible used that I bought from a neighbor. And then I got a 1961 Cadillac convertible for $600 for a neighbor. Did you move to New Jersey after you got the convertible? Nope. Lived in good old Long Island. Good old Long Island. Okay. Which Disney talent do you text the most?

Oh, wow. I don't, you know, I'm in touch with many people. Some news people, David Muir and I often communicate about the events of the day. This is for Albert. What is your guilty food pleasure? Pizza. Pizza to me, the ultimate comfort food. And I travel the world a lot. I try to have a pizza in almost every city that I visit. What's the pizza like in China?

You know, there's a good Italian restaurant on the Bund in Shanghai. It's pretty damn good. And I just had pizza in Tokyo that was fantastic. Yeah, I'd look for pizza, good pizza. Okay. What do people most say to you when you get recognized? Like what's the first thing? Lately, everybody says, hey, I read your book.

Well, your book was phenomenal. Well, thank you. I get that a lot. Streets of New York, yesterday, walking just on the Upper East Side. I remember when your book came out. I got an advanced copy, so I had already read it. But we went away for vacation, and on the beach, every hotshot business guy on the beach had your book.

It's nice to hear. All of them. All of them. And it was all like, it's a great book. Did you read this book? It's a great book. So I felt like privileged. It did well. Yes, it did very well. Okay. Do you have a fear of anything? Nope. Nope? Nope. You don't have a fear of fire? Nope.

Water. Drowning. No, I'm one of those that doesn't have fears. Not spiders? No, they don't bother me. If you saw a snake on a hike, you would freak out. No, I wouldn't freak out. I'd probably avoid it, but I wouldn't freak out. I don't know why that is.

We're going to get to the bottom. I'm overly sensitive to smells. I don't like people who wear too much cologne or perfume. Do I smell right now? Are we wearing too much? No. No, I would detect it when I walked in the room. Okay, good. I was like, I don't recall putting any cologne on. No, I don't have fears. Okay, that's good.

I fear being interviewed by a talk show host and a lengthy podcast. You can't tell me this has not been the greatest interview of your life. This is Barbara Walters with Oprah with a little frost. Absolutely, yes. Frost. Yes, frost. Frost to your Nixon. Have I turned into the Nixon? We're talking about frosting. Is there any, like give me your, I know there's too many to name one.

But is there any biggest like pinch me moment? It's so interesting you say that. I've had this unbelievably charmed life where because of this job, I've gotten to meet

presidents and popes and some of the greatest entertainers of our lifetime. And I must say, I don't get jaded. They're pinch me moments. Yeah, of course. I'll tell you one, reveal one story. I was very involved in procuring for the company the rights to the Beatles Get Back program that we aired on Disney Plus a few years ago.

And when we were going through the production phase of it, which is to determine with Peter Jackson, who was directing it, how many hours, etc., and what form it would take, we had a screening at my house. And Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney came, along with Olivia Harrison, George Harrison's wife.

And we had a dinner at the house after we all watched a few hours of it. And I had to give a toast. And I looked around the table. There's Ringo and Paul. Now, don't forget, 1964, the Beatles come to the United States. I'm 13 years old. We talked about musical taste. I mean, that was it. And there they are in my house. And my toast was, in my life, I've had many pinch me moments.

And I try never to take them for granted. And tonight is a real pinch me moment for me.

And I think Paul or Ringo, I can't remember which one, got up and said, this is a pinch me moment for us too, interestingly enough, all of us together watching that. Anyway. Well, I guess it hadn't happened yet. I was going to say, when you introduced yourself to Sir Paul, did you say, you can call me Sir Bob? Actually, I met Paul in the early, mid-90s. I've had the luxury of being able to call him a friend.

He actually said to me when he heard about my knighthood, Sir Bob. And I said, no, Paula, not sir. Well, he said, you're always a sir to me. Yes, that's right. I don't know. You're a sir to me.

God, I've become one hell of a name dropper. I've dropped a queen's name, Paul's name. This is the stuff people want to hear. Because it's so funny, Paul McCartney, Sir Paul McCartney, is one of the greatest, kindest people I've ever met. And when I met him, it was not on our show. It was at a barbecue. Yeah.

And he approached me, and this is what he said. And I'll never forget it because I was baffled that he would know who I was in any way. He goes, Kelly from the telly.

And I just was blown away. The idea that Sir Paul McCartney was at home watching a frothy morning talk show did not... Wait till he finds out you're a Disney legend. Wait till he... Well, next time I see him. Thank you for doing our humble podcast. My pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, the CEO to end all CEOs.

The most powerful man in entertainment and future president of the United States. Of course, future Disney legend. Jan, you're going to make that happen. Of course, Sir Bob Iger. Ladies and gentlemen, Bob, thank you for joining us.

Really appreciate it. Your audience could see I'm the color of Jan's pants. So true. Oh, and don't forget to pick up Bob's book, The Ride of a Lifetime, everywhere books are sold. Well, that's it. Pack it up because we're heading back to Michael's bedroom. Don't forget to listen and rate and review this episode on Apple Podcasts. Five stars are mandatory. It's Bob Iger, for God's sake.

Bye, everyone. Can't wait to talk off camera next week. Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Melojo Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music. From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Enzuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Juliet Desch.

from Goat Rodeo. Our team is Cara Shillen, Megan Nadolski, Max Johnston, Isabel Kirby McGowan, and Rebecca Seidel. Additional sound design by Terrence Bernardo. This show is powered by Stitcher.

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