Brits vs Biden, Linklater on Sexless Cinema & the Song of Summer 44:25

I thought there's so many kind of like bad news stories about men in Hollywood that I thought at a certain point I should like do a profile of how good Guy is. Don't do that. That's a curse. What's the curse? I wrote a profile of Elliot Spitzer. The lead of the story, I remember the wording was that he is without guile and has no secrets. When did you write that? Just right before the scandal.

I'm Ben Smith. I'm Naeem Arraza. And this is Mixed Signals from Semaphore Media. Last time I said we were like Mulder and Scully searching for truth, not aliens. And that rings true today because we're going to take on two conspiracy theories circulating. The first is about the British invasion at establishment U.S. media from the Wall Street Journal to, more recently, the shakeup at Washington Post.

And the dramatic question here is whether the Brits are going to burn down the White House like they did in 1812. Really, from the Upper West Side to Joe Biden's White House, there's a real concern about what is going on at these big establishments, these organizations. A lot of theories floating around. I'm looking forward to talking more about that. And then we'll take on the second question of whether it was Marvel, Me Too, or something else entirely that killed sex at the cinema. And we'll talk about that with acclaimed director Richard Linklater, whose new sexy flick, Hitman, is out on Netflix today.

And finally, we'll get into this week's Blind Spots, the stories you're not seeing with Max Tani. As you know, in this show about media, our ads are, fittingly, about advertising. And we've got a lot of people across the marketing industry among our listeners. They're facing intense pressure for growth, dramatic AI-driven change, and stakes that have never been higher. It's the same exhilarating, overwhelming moment across media. That's where I think with Google comes in. It's marketers' go-to spot for staying ahead of the curve with insights, hot trends, and

and real talk from industry leaders. Whether it's mastering YouTube, navigating AI, or just figuring out what personalization even means, they've got you covered. At Think with Google, you'll hear from top CMOs and creatives, learn about the latest AI innovations, and find inspiration. You can find all that at thinkwithgoogle.com.

Ben, hi, how are you? I'm great. Good to see you. Tell us a little bit about your recent travel experience. There's no story anyone likes to hear more than someone else's shitty travel experience. I really hate it when journalists use their clout to complain about consumer products. So I don't really want to go into detail about how terrible my ride back on Amtrak was, although I am going to now move to China because they have better infrastructure. But I asked them for both a refund and...

sit down and interview with the CEO of Amtrak. And I also sent that to him on LinkedIn and to a number of his staff members. Did you copy Secretary Mayor Pete? You know, I haven't. I will send that on to him as well. This is the kind of nepotism that people are worried about, Ben. This isn't nepotism. This is reporting. Oh, okay. Okay. Selective reporting. Just trying to get to the bottom of things.

For more on Ben's travel experiences, you can check out his other podcast. But today, let's talk about more important stories. Everyone in media is speaking about the story from the Wall Street Journal, the Wall Street

The White House Democrats are furious about this Wall Street Journal article with the headline, Behind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slipping. And it effectively talks about a number of gaffes that the president has made and closed-door sources, a lot of Republicans but also others, speaking about signs of the president's age and or competency for office. I think the best way to actually –

get a sense of this article is I didn't read it. I listened to it. And there is a very joyous kind of robo voice on the Wall Street Journal that reads this article to you. And I just want to play. Behind closed doors, Biden shows signs of slipping.

Participants in meetings said the 81-year-old president performed poorly at times. The White House said Biden is sharp and his critics are playing partisan politics. She is having so much fun. All right, we won't play it off. What is the attribute that's being dialed to 10 in that audio? It's like a kind of, it's like a sort of just likability, passion. I don't know. But that tone is what? Can we get her on the show? Yeah.

And the thing about that tone is that is the glee some people in Washington attribute to the Wall Street Journal's writing of that article. And you know what's funny? I mean, as somebody who has edited stories like that, I think I'd love to talk like a little about what happened with that story and then about the big picture. You can kind of hear an editor's voice in the back of that story because it's saying like, oh, let's make some trouble. This is a thing everybody knows. Let's write it. Let's stir the pot.

Very kind of old-fashioned, hacky, fun approach to journalism, which is so not how big American media have been covering these very consequential high-stakes questions of politics over the last several years. The story itself is said things everybody knows and everybody honestly can observe. There are moments when Biden seems very, very sharp. There are moments when he seems less sharp. Republicans will tell you on the record.

that he's falling apart and he's senile. Democrats, particularly when the White House tells them to say things, will say whatever the White House wants them to say. The Journal didn't quote those Democrats, which the White House, and I was texting with a senior official this morning, is just furious about, that they would quote Kevin McCarthy, but then not quote, on the record, Democrats you've talked about. But that town is so partisan, of course. This is the line in there that caught my eye the most. I wish I could read it with as much joy as the robo-reader, but I can't.

The White House kept close tabs on some of the Wall Street Journal's interviews with Democratic lawmakers. After the offices of several Democrats shared with the White House either a recording of an interview or details about what was asked, some of those lawmakers spoke to the journal a second time and once again emphasized Biden's strength. That is just how the sausage is made. Of course, if you're going to write an unbelievably damaging story about the most powerful person in the world...

He's going to use his power to try to make his friends say nice things. And the journal seems to have been annoyed at that and not quoted the friends saying nice things. But ultimately, the story is sort of a wash. You posed this to Vivek Ramaswamy in our last episode. But what was new? Like news is about what's new and different. What is new and different about Biden's age?

So, I mean, I think there are big questions, and I think we will read memoirs in 10 years about what was really going on in this White House around his age. How is he doing? I don't know. The people around him have every incentive not to tell the truth. His enemies have every incentive not to tell the truth, and there hasn't been great reporting.

on what is really going on. But what was interesting about this story actually wasn't the rehash of a legitimate question, but the editorial choice just to sort of say, we're going to write like kind of troublemaking, old-fashioned Washington nothing burger to get some attention, drive some conversation, have some fun today. And that reflects a big shift in where

these big American media outlets are right now. But this is much bigger than the Wall Street Journal. The actual concern here is around what has been establishment mainstream media, right? And there's two kind of conflicting conspiracy theories here because people on the right would tell you that establishment media, mainstream media is in the pocket of

President Biden. Meanwhile, there's another conspiracy out there, which is that the White House and the readers of many of these mainstream news organizations think that they're abandoning the cause of democracy, the cause of Joe Biden, not falling in line, not supporting Biden, and they're declaring their independence in odd ways or whatever.

have these massive shakeups that are changing the way in which they have been covering politics during the Trump years and the 2020 election. So this really is the sort of stuff we were talking about when we started this podcast, which is there are these big picture theories about these political machinations of news organizations.

And fundamentally, this is a conspiracy to make money. And it just happens to be arriving at the absolute worst time for Joe Biden. And so what's happening in the biggest picture way, and it's happening in different ways at different publications, is that they built huge businesses and brands during the sort of peak of the high attention Trump years by promising that to stand for democracy by saying that democracy dies in the dark, which the Washington Post changed its slogan to.

And what you're seeing now is the proprietors of news organizations looking around and saying, and I think I'll talk specifically about the Washington Post here. Jeff Bezos. Which Jeff Bezos owns. Huh, we're losing $70 million a year.

People aren't really reading us. This Trump bump thing is over. The cultural mood has changed a bit away from that kind of confrontation. And so if you are a news proprietor in that situation, so those are the people making the decisions, the owners, Rupert Murdoch, who owns the Wall Street Journal. What do you do? You say enough. Well, first you try to get your high-minded American editors to change course, have more fun, stop.

pontificating about democracy and stories nobody will read. And then when that doesn't work, you bring in a British person who comes from a totally different media tradition where they really don't view journalism as this highfalutin cause. Yeah, they're less virtuous than us. Yeah, they're less obsessed with their own virtue. It's a trade. It's a lot of fun. It can be very confrontational to power. It can expose great scandals.

But it does not have the same crusading sense of itself as American journalism. And it's much cheaper. They just don't pay. They don't spend money the same way over there because they don't have that kind of money. And so what you're seeing is a combination of cost-cutting and a step away from, you know, what now in retrospect looks like it was a marketing strategy of saying we are these pro-democracy institutions. And the problem with walking away from that is the people who love them most, their readers, didn't think that was a marketing strategy. They thought that was a promise. Right.

And the White House thought that too. You know, I was talking to a prominent Brit in American media the other day and was saying, you know, what happened? What do you make of

of this sense that, you know, at some unspoken level, the job of the establishment media is to stop Donald Trump. And they just said, I mean, how'd that work out for you? I mean, if that is the case, it worked out pretty well in 2020, right? Maybe we give the media too much credit, but I think that's the debate underlying all of this. So I want to cut in on a couple of things. So for

first of all, that it was just a marketing strategy. In the case of Jeff Bezos, of course, he also had his own challenges with Donald Trump. You'll remember, and David Pecker and the National Enquirer. Bezos' ownership of the Washington Post became a real political liability for him, and Trump campaigned against him. And I think that this is something I just don't know. I don't know if reporting on it, but I think...

There's a thread of conspiracy that the editor he hired, a former aide. The editor in question is William Lewis, Sir William Lewis. He has been knighted. He's the publisher and CEO of The Washington Post now, and he was previously the publisher of The Wall Street Journal, Dow Jones. But he had a storied career kind of coming up through tabloids and then ran The Daily Telegraph in the UK for many years where he broke the parliamentary expenses scandal, which is like

nothing compared to the kind of scandals we see in American politics, which people were like paying for their shrubs to be trimmed. Incredible story, honestly. Wonderful story. And then kind of found himself in Murdoch world. He was at News International and early on in 2011, I think, was involved as the cleanup guy when it came to the News of the World phone hacking scandal. And it's actually the subject of ongoing litigation in the United Kingdom right now where Prince Harry...

and others are pursuing Murdoch Inc. And Will Lewis's name has come up a lot in those conversations. So someone who's really entrusted by Rupert Murdoch, and of course the conspiracy becomes, well now Rupert Murdoch is pulling the strings at the Washington Post and oh God, isn't democracy going to die in the darkness? Yeah, and I think you sort of hear that from really puzzled people who loved what the Post was doing before.

But I think it's also, it's a misread. I mean, the real mystery here is what does the owner of The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos, want to do? Because that's who Lewis works for. And where exactly does this fit into Jeff Bezos' real running conflict with Donald Trump is a conversation between Will Lewis and Jeff Bezos that I would love to hear. Love to fly on the wall for that conversation. But, but,

The real, like the kind of big question here, and we should take a position on this, is what is the role of a free press in a democracy? Is the role of a free press as a feature or a function of democracy? And I think part of the argument you're making is

They already picked a side in some sense because they indebted themselves to readers, listeners, subscribers who have bought into a certain vision of the world, and they're now beholden to that. My view here, which is a bit of a cop-out, is that there's such things as the media, and different news organizations really do have different roles and see themselves differently. But you have a contract with your audience, and you're saying, here's who we are. And I do think that The Times, The Post, CNN...

in various ways said during 2017 to 2021, you know, we stand with you, our liberal readers against Donald Trump. And I think they are in various kind of quiet ways trying to walk that back to say another thing, which is probably closer to where I am, which is

We have a function in democracy. We're a pillar of democracy, and that function is to tell you what is going on so you can be an informed citizen, to give you accurate facts but be very open to points of view on that fact, and not to put our thumb on the scale. But these are – there's a spectrum. These are legitimate points of view. That is actually the articulated purpose of these organizations. Let's take the New York Times, for example. They have always –

you know, articulated the highest editorial standards of the Times, the independence of the New York Times. I'm going to take the Timesian position here, I guess, which is that

The independence of journalism matters. And it may be actually the stakes have changed because now it's not just about Joe Biden and Donald Trump, although that is the big question in this election. It's also that there has never been less trust in the media. Whatever strategy you think was in place for the last four to 10 years hasn't worked in terms of actually being able to establish trust.

facts or truth in the American dialogue, just as existential a moment as democracy is in right now, press and media is like in an existential moment. And so reclaiming that and at the New York Times, they're taking this turn and they're not hard hit on the business side the way the Washington Post is, right? So that's not a response to the economics. And sometimes I think the Times also writes in this view of posterity and that's kind of a

One of my senses of having worked there is like they're writing sometimes for the readers of 2024, but also for the readers of like 2058, right? And in that long view, retaining your independence has more value. But could you imagine how infuriating it is to sit in the White House and hear that right now when you think this is the highest stakes moment in American history and you're being lectured by these people about how you're writing for 2058? I mean, that's that and...

And I think a few years ago, it did not feel like that. There was a real change and it is changing back. And this happens to be the moment when it's happening. It's not a conspiracy against Joe Biden, but I think it will have real consequence for this election. Last question. There's a sense on the right that

quote, mainstream media is overplaying this idea of Donald Trump as this great danger to democracy, that he's going to come into autocracy, it's going to turn into that film Civil War, there's going to be a third Donald Trump term, the Constitution will be thrown out the door. We can discuss this in the internment camps in 2025. Oh, great, Ben. I mean, that is facetious. I think coverage of what Trump is saying he's going to do is obviously the right thing for the media to be covering, trying to understand how he's thinking about the next term.

He and some of his supporters have said some very extreme things. Others have said very moderate things. We should cover that stuff and try to understand it. That all seems like very, very legitimate coverage and exactly what we ought to be doing. And if Trump's supporters don't want coverage of outlandish plans, he and the folks around him shouldn't say them, but he's saying them for a reason. Exactly. Which also doesn't necessarily mean that that thing's the worst imaginings of people come to pass either. Let's take a quick break. And when we're back, we'll get into our second conspiracy, which is about sex at the movies.

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Okay, our next topic, which is far sexier than the geriatric presidential rerun. A low bar.

And really like in the broader media conversation. And there's a lot of speculation about what's causing that. There's a generation of films that were aimed at the Chinese market, including Marvel, which is much more prudish. There's Gen Z's deranged consumption habits. And other people blame feminism, blame the Me Too movement. It's such an original path to blame women for the lack of sex.

There's actually been analysis on this by a fellow named Stephen Follows, and he went back and analyzed the top 250 box office films of the last 20 plus years, so 2000 to present. And basically what he found is that 20 years ago, 80% of films had at least some sexual content.

And now that number is far closer to 40%. So a steep decline over time. It was cited in The Economist article that was published last month. And it's part of this wave of reporting about sex in the cinema and whether it's making a comeback. But I actually had this conversation early last year with the director, Richard Linklater. And he's always ahead of the curve. He has this great kind of sexy new film out on Netflix called Inferno.

Hitman. It stars Glenn Powell and Adria Arjona. And I should admit, I'm a huge fan of Linklater. I think he's best known for Slackers, for Dazed and Confused. But I think for people of my micro-generation, at least, the before trilogy, before Sunrise, before Sunset, before Midnight, we kind of grew up with Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy in this movie. So I was...

very impressed to be with the you're able to take me back stage to meet him on a sale usually get impressed by stuff like that usually impressed by me then I don't usually get impressed by you know if your fancy Hollywood friends I have that many but as a surprising number very confusing explain how you know I'm well you know Ben before I got my big break which is co-hosting this podcast with you you're welcome oh thank you I actually had a very exciting career as a documentary filmmaker I still produce documentaries and and that's actually how I came into journalism through video journalism but

But back in 2019, Richard Linklater was introduced to myself and my writing partner, Bill Gutentag, to make a 10-episode documentary series about animal rescue, which we did for CBS. And that's how I met him. And we stayed in touch, stayed friends over time. Animal rescue to Sex and the Movies. See, I think that's what's going to get you canceled, Ben. It's so much harder to get canceled than it used to be. I think it could still happen to you, and I'd love to have my own show. But before you get canceled, let's have a conversation with director Richard Linklater. ♪

Hey, Rick. Good to see you. Hey, how's it going? Good to see you guys. You still trying to squeeze this into the episode? We're not squeezing it in. It's like a set piece. Okay. It's the best part. You do have little chapters. It's pretty cool. It's not just one thing. Thanks, Rick. It's a nice feature. This is less of an interview and more like we're trying to get to the bottom of this conspiracy theory that what killed sex in cinemas. It is interesting. You sent that stat.

It's just pretty demonstrable, isn't it? Yeah. From 80% of movies that had some sexual content to 40 to 50% now. Where did all the sex go, Rick?

Well, where did adulthood go? I think that's what it comes down to. Because when they talk about sex, they're not talking about explicit sex or suggested sex. Because I think most people, the history of cinema, the best sex in movies was like screwball comedies in the 40s where they wittily was suggesting sex or titillation. You know, that sex...

That's kind of great, too. And even in Hitman, we don't have hardcore sex. It's just it's sexual for sure. But I think what's really been reduced is just.

And this just is Hollywood. It's cinema of this generation. It's just less adult. I think when superheroes took over, it's clear they don't have genitalia at all, do they? No, neither does Barbie. Barbie, it precludes sex when you don't really have that. You don't have the parts.

It does. But, Rick, when you and I spoke in February of last year, I want to say January or February of last year, I asked you what you were going to do with Hitman. And you said something like, I'm going to bring back the movie star. I'm going to bring back sex to cinema. That must have been my elevator pitch. But, hey, it's technically true, though. I mean, that wasn't the motivation for the film. You succeeded. Oh, thank you. Absolutely. I thought it was uncomfortable watching sex scenes with my parents. But watching sex scenes with your co-host for a podcast is also uncomfortable. Yeah, a bit awkward. Aw.

Well, Adria and Glenn are definitely stars. I mean, they feel like those are movie star parts. And then, yeah. And the sex is such a part of the story. Like, you don't believe their behavior as it goes on. If it wasn't based on, like, passion, love, and sex, they wouldn't be doing things to risk their entire lives. Because that's the kind of thing that motivates you in the world, right? Sex to...

do really foolish and dangerous and risk everything. I'm being a little, I'm kind of kidding and I'm kind of not. No, but it's kind of true. You know, most human violence and so much violence

kind of comes out of sex, you know, sex frustration. Most fights, you know, guys are crazy. Bar fights, and it's just, hey, you looked at my girlfriend. You know, it's just, it's crazy. Even like terrorists and school shooters, it's always guys who can't get laid, whether it's through religion or just their own lack of game. And you're solving it. I mean, the world owes you a debt of gratitude here. Gosh, I'm glad I'm not a kid now. Like, being a young person, like,

let's say 10 through 13. The only reason I went to movies was to see, because they were all adult movies. You had to find your way into the movie. And now we make films for like,

12-year-olds, and they've done a great job at convincing adults that those are good films. Like, yeah, just stay a kid forever, you know, keep reading comic books, and just, you know, that's movies. So, they've just abdicated adult filmmaking and all its complexities, which includes sex, you know. They've just kind of tossed that out largely. So, that's the studios'

So there's a lot of conspiracies, though, that it was the Me Too movement. What do you make of those? Like, Me Too killed sex in the movies. Yeah.

Oh, so that's fairly recent. I was drawing a generational trend going back 15 years, maybe. Well, that probably made it easier to not have sex. Like, if this is going to get us in trouble, if there's anything that might be off-kilter, age poorly, or kind of hit the wrong note or offend someone, let's just not even do it. But then, you know, why do anything? Yeah.

I feel like I need to be the voice of the prudish Gen Z kids here. But isn't part of it that... Go ahead. Seriously, though. Isn't part of this that actresses were being pushed out of their comfort zones, they brought in intimacy coordinators, and we're basically there to protect people's interests? But that shouldn't reflect on the final film. Yes, Hollywood history is just a horror show of...

particularly young actors, make completely uncomfortable. So it's there to protect vulnerable people, which is really important. You shouldn't have been ever put in that situation in the first place. You know, an actor shows up and you're doing like a love scene. It's like, hey, we have a new idea. You're going to be completely naked. He's going to be, you know, so many people have bad stories. So definitely I'm glad there's a mechanism in place to protect against that. But you see older actors, you know,

I think with more experience and kind of when it's their movie, you know, Emma Thompson did that sexy film a couple years back. Yeah, she was totally naked. Yeah, and she was talking about, oh, yeah, intimacy quarters are really important. And she's talking about protecting young, vulnerable actors. They asked her, oh, yeah, so you used an intimacy coordinator? She's like, no, no, I don't need one. And I totally related. Like, we didn't need an intimacy coordinator on our film. Did you use one?

Well, we had to have one. That's what's interesting. Like, Audrey and Glenn and I, you know, we worked these things out. I had them, I say, hey, this is potentially awkward. We want to make this sexy. We put our goals on the table. They were bringing in pictures, and we really all kind of choreographed and collaborated on this. We all were there for each other. It wasn't awkward at all.

I made them feel like kind of the authors of this. And it was just a collaboration and storytelling. But I know not all films approach it that way. They should. Yeah. What you just mentioned, the Me Too movement. I mean...

I think it may be brought to everyone's attention that when you're watching a movie and there's a sex scene, it kind of takes you out of the movie and you're saying, God, there are actors who are having to go through this. I hope they're, you know, you worry about their...

you know, the atmosphere they're having to create in? Are they being exploited? It's an old question. You know, it's always an old question. I think people thought, okay, well, they're professionals and they're good at this and they do that. But, you know, it's always awkward. It always has been. The films that are very sexy right now in the cinema, yours excluded, but a lot of them tend to have a very, actually yours included, they tend to have these very strong female leads.

Or sometimes they're written by or directed by women, right? So films like Salt Burn or Joyride. Did you feel like you had to navigate that in Adria's character in the film? Because she's kind of this trad wife turned revolutionary character in the movie. It also defines a woman in a way that it didn't used to define a woman. Like Julia Roberts, like the real movie stars, Julia Roberts.

Like Sharon Stone, Natalie Portman, all these women had very sexy scenes early in their careers. It wasn't defining for them, I don't think. They went on to play all kinds of characters. Maybe younger actors would find it more defining. Wow. I mean, it used to kind of make careers, too, one sexy scene, and you're a movie star. Body Heat, Catherine Turner, you know, she shows up, it's like, holy shit, who's that? Yeah.

you know, boom, you're a star just from being sexy and a good actor and a good movie and, you know, all the planets have to align. But you would be known for that. And I think that's particularly, you know,

you know, women. A guy can show up and be kind of sexy, good looking, but it's not the same. Brad Pitt and Thelma and Louise, like, oh, who's that sexy guy with the shirt on? Yeah, he was that. I think there's actually probably more permission to ogle men these days. Like, you saw that with Barbie. Everyone was talking about how hot Ken was. I think if you're going to be fair, in Hitman, I was trying to

I'm dealing with two very sexy performers, you know? It wasn't seen from his point of view. It's not one of those things where he's dressed and she's naked. You know, it was pretty equal. It's like real sex. They're both naked. You know, you could look at both of them from whatever gaze you...

wish, but at least it's kind of, I felt, equitable, you know, in its own way. And part of it is also, there's this, on Reddit, there are lots of Redditors out there kind of musing about why sex has gone from the cinema rec, and there's an article that many of them point to called Everybody's Beautiful and No One is Horny. But part of it is like, there's so much sex outside in the world,

Otherwise, right? In 2013, when you really see sex decline in cinemas, which predates Me Too, it's like the rise of streamers, House of Cards, binging, and then Instagram, everyone's... Pornography? Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a generation now, adult, that has just been inundated with porn their entire life.

To be the old guy here, when I was a kid, Playboy was just topless. It was very gradual that things got... And it was very scarce. So I think sex is just so ubiquitous. It's kind of boring. It doesn't really fit in a story. It feels gratuitous. I think you have to earn your way into it being a part of your movie or your story. Yeah.

But before Sunrise, you had a sex scene, which you don't show. It was kind of pan away, right? Old school. Even in the next film, nine years later. Wait, don't we know they had sex? Well, it wasn't confirmed until the sequel nine years later. I mean, it was one of those, yes, it's implied. Of course, if you look how they're dressed slightly different, her shirt's, you know, it's one of those old school 40s movies. You just implied sex, which is...

That's sexy in itself. You know, again, straight up sex can be kind of boring. You know, it really has to be a reason for it. So there was implied sex, certainly in the first one. In the second one, there was soon going to be sex when the movie ends. Right on the cusp. In the third one, the fight at the end is, yeah, they're

I told Julie and Ethan, I said, this is a sex scene. It ends up a 30-minute fight scene. But it's like, this is really trying to be a sex scene. That's what they came here for. So you see a little bit of that. A little bit. Julie finally got to...

take her top off. She'd been wanting to do that in all the films. How very French of her. I know, completely. She was like, this is the last time I want to show my boobs while they're still good. We better do it now. So I'm like, okay. So if there's a fourth one, because people keep asking. Oh, you really don't want to see anyone over 50 having sex, I don't think. Oh, don't tell that to Emma Thompson. Of course, of course not. I'm kidding. Yeah. Here's the last question. There's always this question of whether

Art imitates life, or life imitates art. And we know that Gen Z is having less sex than other generations have, young millennials too. Can we blame Hollywood for the sad sex lives of Gen Z, Rick?

Uh, no, you can blame, I think, the world they're living in. You know, everybody's distracted. I'm not saying anything original. If you're staring at your phone all day, you're not going to be social. And being social, the whole point of being social is to, you know, mix it up. And if you're not out socializing, then you ain't going to be having no sex. But that's not, they're not taking their cues from Hollywood. I think Hollywood is a

always just a reflection of the world. So, I don't know. I think it's just the new world we're slowly have segued into. It's kind of sad, you know? But also, you're bringing it back, Rick. Well...

It is interesting there's an awareness, just the fact that people are doing scientific look at it, and there's more awareness, and there were these stories, like, why isn't there sex? So if that's what it takes to get an Hollywood exec to motivate them to, like, hey, let's do a movie with sex scenes in them again. Thank you for addressing this important social crisis. It is a huge social crisis. I expect that there to be a congressional hearing on it at some point. But...

You gotta drag these executives in and make them explain themselves. Thanks, Rick. Thank you, Rick. And thanks for the movie.

Isn't he the best? Yeah, it's nice to meet somebody who lives up to exactly what you hope they are. What do you think of his answer? The kind of conspiracy isn't really Me Too, but it's around Marvel. It's like the kind of commercialization of this industry, the studio film. I mean, I hate to keep coming back to this, but it is the same thing. There's a theory that feels so obviously sociopolitical and about Me Too, and then when you sort of look at it, it's about...

selling boring movies about superheroes to teenagers and to the Chinese market. But sex still sells in cinemas. You can see that with Challengers. Have you seen the film Challengers? I have not yet, although the preview was very sexy. I've asked people, have you seen Challengers? And they don't know what the film is. And then I say to them, the Zendaya. And they're like, oh, Zendaya threesome movie. I'm like, that's not the logline. But the actual film has very little sex.

So sex still sells. And speaking of selling, Ben, we've got to get to the advertising portion of the event. So Ben, take it away. I got some flack last week about making fun of podcast advertising for green juices. And as I turn out to be wrong, I will happily eat crow. I will talk about how tasty the crow is when the time comes. But in this podcast about media, our advertising is about advertising.

And the branded segment on our show is sponsored by Think with Google, which is Google's resource for marketing professionals looking for insights, data, and tools to do their jobs better. And this week, I talked to Google's VP of Marketing, Josh Spanier, about a theory he has about Netflix and how it, along with YouTube, has become a marketing channel as well as a streaming platform. All right, let's hear from you and Josh. And when we're back, Max Tani joins us to regale us with blind spots, the stories we're missing in Left Right Media Diets.

Last time we met, you told me about a theory you have about Netflix. What is your theory about Netflix? So I want to go back to 2016. I want to go back to 2016. I'm on a plane and I watch The Accountant, a movie starring Ben Affleck, which went nowhere, didn't really do much.

I enjoyed it, but I was on a plane. And I read a couple of weeks ago that they're making Accountant 2 with Ben Affleck. And I thought, oh, that's weird. Why would they make an Accountant 2, this nothing burger of a movie? And it's been made by Amazon. And then three weeks after that, I actually noticed it's the number three movie on Netflix most watched in America. And I'm asking myself, hold on a second. Did Ben

Netflix see that Amazon is making this accountant too and say, oh, we've got this in our reserve. We'll put it on. Or did Ben Affleck say, I'll only make this movie if it's on Netflix and Netflix makes it famous, the original?

I would imagine a lot more people are watching the Accountant original than have ever seen it up to this point. We saw this last year with Suits, the Summer of Suits as it was called, that Netflix managed to use its platform to turn, make this show famous and YouTube has done similar with MrBeast. MrBeast is everywhere. MrBeast has more followers than nearly every cable channel in America. He's got over 100 million followers and he's turned that into a sort of a content extension.

But I think there's something interesting going on here about these large platforms and can sort of help celebrate content and where the edges of that are. It's a really fascinating space.

All right, we're back with Max Tani. Hi, Max. Good to have you. It's nice to be back. You know, I was listening in the booth and this is a real podcast now. And we know that because we have a podcast host complaining about elite travel, which is like the staple of any good chat show. I was complaining about the airline lounge, the cellar, you know.

I really have to cut off all conversation about Ben's travel. That was the regional. It was the Palmetto. I was sitting with some tourists from New Zealand when I got thrown out of my seat. No, this is this is great stuff. I mean, all great chat shows have complaint have like long segments truly about, you know, where they've been and travel on, you know,

Yeah, I feel like in the future we should really talk about my travel, which is far more exciting and interesting than Chris' travel. When you guys want to start talking about like airline lounges, you know, the private lounges that you guys are in, that's like a, that is the stuff that people in podcasts really need. Nothing like Priority Pass to really kill a conversation. And to kill Sex and Cinema. I actually blame Priority Pass for the death of Sex and Cinema. Yeah.

All right. Enough about our travel bubbles. Let's talk about our media bubbles. Let's pop them with this segment, Blind Spots. Max, what are the stories we're not seeing? One story that's not getting a lot of attention on the right is a story about COVID. The Times reported this week that the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine reported

has a 265-page report finding that long COVID continues to damage many people's ability to function. I'm going to quote from The Times. The report cited data from 2022 suggesting that nearly 18 million adults and nearly a million children in the United States have had long COVID at some point.

Now, we're probably going to get into... I actually have a question about whether anyone saw that story, because I feel like there's not a real desire to read stories about COVID, particularly long COVID. It's certainly a blind spot for me personally. I don't want to read about COVID. I don't want to watch documentaries about COVID. And I do think...

You sort of think about, you know, I remember during COVID, as you learn about how horrible the Spanish flu was, wondering why I hadn't known that much about it. And now you see why, which is just, it was so awful. Nobody wants to talk or think about it. I actually think people want to talk about COVID.

But not in these terms. I think the pandemic was so defining for our culture and for our lives, for our experience. And particularly, like a lot of this millennial midlife crisis, et cetera, I think it comes out of also pandemic. People feel like they lost time. People have a lot of distrust in government and media that came out of the pandemic. But I don't think the story was like...

picked up anywhere. Even in a week where Fauci was testifying. Well, this is what I was going to say is that this is a big contrast to a big story on the right this week, which was, you know, Anthony Fauci's

testimony in front of Congress. It's the first time he's testified since he left his post. And I think it illustrates the ways in which the discussion has really changed around COVID. Conservatives feel like actually they've been vindicated by the kind of arc of COVID-19, which is very different than what I think is the point of this report, which is that it was something that was incredibly serious.

And was something that we wanted to actually try to stop from happening because it had real consequences. And the journalism around this, I mean, there's been a ton of really, really good reporting, good journalism. But the way in which media and social media just polarized everybody has distorted it so badly. I mean, there is just like there are a lot of very complicated things. There's the horror of the actual crime.

disease and all that death. There are the real policy mistakes made around lockdowns. There are the questions about the lab leak, which got so polarized. And it's really a question mark and a good subject for reporting. And I think it's hard to keep your feet in this story.

What's the blind spot on the left? Was it the Fauci stuff? No. Well, considering that you guys are New York media elites ordering your buy a bar smoothies on Uber Eats and complaining about delays on the Acela. I love buy a bar and I'd happily read a green juice advertisement for buy a bar. I would too. I am a fan of the... I get the BK protein smoothie.

I imagine you guys, considering this background, have not heard the newest praise and worship song making the rounds in some Christian music circles. Natasha Owens, who is a Christian conservative musician, has a new song out called The Chosen One in the wake of Donald Trump's conviction. It's kind of what it sounds like. And yeah, no, we're going to drop the track right here. I think we can. Wow. Allie, can we play the track? Here's something divine.

Oh wow I am the chosen one

I really, who's the backup singer there? You don't recognize, you don't recognize the voice of our former president. I mean, honestly, that's... I look forward to the 20 Feet from Stardom remake with Donald Trump in it. Now, on the one hand, this is obviously a slightly amusing song. It's not meant to be taken super seriously. But on the other, you know, it really got me thinking about how important non-secular media is.

is as a part of American life and politics, particularly for some people on the right, and how terrible of a job we in the mainstream media do of kind of covering this. You know, Christian media was not an insignificant part of the GOP presidential primary. He didn't win, but Tim Scott crafted a lot of his media plan around going on Christian conservative media. And I think

kind of managed to keep his reputation even though he lost to Trump he kind of managed to keep his preserve his reputation you know to be a possible vice presidential candidate yeah the lyrics of that song actually do literally explain a thing that just deeply puzzles

a lot of the secular media. Which is that Donald Trump is God? She specifically says he's not. You've got to listen to the lyrics here. You constantly read takes in the sort of mainstream media about like Donald Trump is a sinner, like a real sinner. Like how can these Christian conservatives support him? And

Like, the logic is really, really clear if you're really Christian, which is we're all sinners, he's God's instrument, and if you look at the record and you look at what he has done, he has advanced the cause of particularly the anti-abortion movement and a series of other really deeply held kind of evangelical – causes of the evangelical right –

He has obviously succeeded in advancing those causes. And like, that's the argument. It's not like a, it's not, if you- It's not about the character of Donald Trump. It's about the effectiveness of his policy positions. Yeah, and the notion that God uses a sinful man to advance these things is not some like crazy idea. The fact that on the left, people were, you know, scandalized by Donald Trump selling the Bible. And on the right, there's a song that's taking off where he's the chosen one. It's just like an indication of how divided-

the country is. Do you think it's also kind of to own the libs a little bit to kind of trigger people like, oh, libs are going to laugh at this? Or is it just completely done without the without the... I can't describe motivation. We should find out. We should do the reporting on it. But I should say, like, I think the Wall Street Journal might want to replace Robo Lady with that singer. She brings like a lot of energy. She brings a lot of energy, less glee. It does seem to actually understand politics.

And that's it for this week. Thanks for listening to Mixed Signals from Semaphore Media. Our show is produced by Max Tani, Alison Rogers, and Alan Haberchak, with special thanks to Otis Gray, Catherine Gonzalez, Christina Stella, Britta Galanis, Chad Lewis, Rachel Oppenheim, Anna Pizzino, Garrett Wiley, and Jules Zern.

Our engineer is Rick Kwan. Our theme music is Billy Libby. Our public editor is the Robo woman from Wall Street Journal, who will probably be calling you about your emails to the Amtrak CEO and the ethical guidance or lack thereof. If you like mixed signals, please follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And if you really like us, give us a review. And if you're watching on YouTube, give a like and subscribe to Semaphore's YouTube channel. And if all of that isn't enough and you still want more Semaphore Media, remember to subscribe to the Semaphore Media newsletter, which publishes every Sunday evening. People want more.

I can't see why not. Might want less in the newsletter. It's also pretty quick read. Way to send away audience, Ben.