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I know exactly where I want to start. Are you ready? Wait, my watch might not be on silent. Did you know that your watch controls both? Dude, I hate the watch. I don't... You just... I like it for fitness. I don't want all my shit to come up on it. Okay. Nope. Not for me. Thank you. Okay. Back to this week's episode of Unlocked. We have Erin back.
- Hi. - Hi, be a little more excited. - We wore the same thing. Here, here, okay. I'm gonna tell you why I'm hesitating right now. - Okay. - 'Cause not only are we wearing the same thing, which is kind of cute actually. - Okay. - 'Cause we'll get into like us being on the same wavelength, but I hate you for getting your makeup done.
with your least famous guest ever you're like you know what i should do get my makeup professionally done i'm like wait we couldn't have talked about that dude i did it because i did jen reed's podcast this morning and she had a makeup artist there to do it so i was like heck yeah i understand
I do. Okay. Well, now that we've gotten that out of the way, our matching outfits. I know. It's kind of cute though. I know. Well, this morning, Aaron was like, what are you wearing? You know? And I sent her a picture. She was like, you've got to be kidding me. I basically have like that same outfit pulled out. I'll change. I was like, no.
don't change it's fine I was like we literally have been doing this for probably the past month so what's new we have we've been like on a very like our wavelength has been like
Right on it. Yes, like you've said things and I'm like wait I was about to do that our main example was we both been talking about how we're normally like physical fitness Like freaks like it keeps us sane But neither of us have been like that consistent about it in like the last year and a half probably so
When I texted you the other day, or you texted me and said you had been to Pilates. And I'm like, I've been looking into that studio for like a couple months and I was going to bite the bullet today. And then you got an Apple watch and I was like, I was going to do that today because I wanted to know how many steps I had. And so I'm like, we're right. We're right on it. We still don't drive the same on the streets, but besides that, we're pretty much in sync. I mean, I'm a good driver. You're not. Yeah.
I kind of am trying to take some pressure off of Tyler from the last episode because, well, I guess two episodes ago, because you really put all the blame on Tyler for calling you out for your bad driving and you let me off the hook, which I will take it because you normally don't. But I was right on your ass about your driving. Oh, you were.
Yeah, you were. Why did you let me off the hook on that? Because I was editing it. You weren't as bad. Tyler like actually rented a rental car to come home. You didn't do that. I mean, I was going to get in the rental car. What? I was going to ride home with him. Dude, that's wild. Y'all have betrayed me. No, we haven't. No, it actually ended up great because Tyler drove us the whole way home. I know. And me, you and Grace, it all slipped. I know. And we got Bucky's outfits. Yeah. Yeah.
So it was great. We diverge. But do you want to tell everyone what we're doing today? OK, and then I'll help kind of lead us through it. Yes. So I was cleaning the house and like putting stuff away. And I ended up finding this notebook right here in my.
like one of my drawers and it was my notebook from therapy from when I had gone to onsite. So I was just reading through it and I was like, you know what? I actually really need to be reminded of every single thing that I wrote down here. And I also feel like other people, like what I've read,
written down and what I've learned other people would benefit from, especially just, I don't know, there's something in the water right now. And I feel like a lot of people are struggling. What do you think in the water? I don't know. Like just a lot of people are struggling right now.
Why do you say that? Like from the people that are talking to you on Instagram or like your personal friends or what? Like personal friends, Instagram for people just, and to like moms, kids are about to be out for summer and three weeks. So now we officially get full custody of them back. So you have a new appreciation for that. What is it? You have a new appreciation for that. A new appreciation. Yes. Because I'm like, what am I going to do all summer long? Like,
it gives you anxiety. You start like, there's just a lot. And so I don't know. I kind of wanted to go through and you and I, so Aaron is my friend that I talk about like the really deep stuff with. I really don't go to Aaron if I want to be told something like I want to be told, you know,
I've experienced this a lot in my life of like the friends that just want to like bury it. They don't come to me normally. No. But that's okay. No. I mean, I can. I just need warning that you're like, hey, I'm trying to bury something and I don't want to talk about it. And I'm like, cool, let's go on a trip. But like air.
Aaron is the one that will like open my mind to other things or see things a little differently or maybe put me in my place. So like what better person to do this podcast with than Aaron? And Aaron's a big like pro therapy friend. Oh, yeah. Big pro therapy. And also, can you tell everyone what Onsite actually is? Yeah. What it entails? Yeah. So I went to Onsite, which is like this podcast.
intensive therapy program I've gone twice and for me it's like been a game changer so there's one outside of LA or outside of San Diego and then one outside of Nashville I'm laughing at the when you rented a mystery car yes on-site San Diego yep you decided to do a rental car like mystery grab bag yes it was a great deal and you got an air-conditioned like pinto yeah and
It was interesting. I was like, never again will I do a... Grab bag? Grab bag. Yeah, that's what we're calling it. But anyway, so the notebook, on-site intensive therapy program, no phone, no computer, no TVs, no nothing. Like they don't even have...
sodas there, no sugar. Like it's like, you're supposed to kind of detox before going. So you can be as focused as possible. It's a crazy thing. And when I say detox, not from like, I mean, if you're on drugs, they'd want you to detox from that. You can't be on drugs and be there, but like alcohol, sugar, you want to try to be as clean as possible before you go. Yeah. They want you in like a good brain space. Exactly. And so before I went though, I've,
Holly and Chad, they had written me like all these cards for me to open each day of therapy. And then they got me this notebook and it says, it's okay to not do everything, which is- You need that. Definitely needed that. And the best part about the whole thing is Holly wrote on page one, here's a journal in case someone says something profound.
- I love Holly. - Love her to death. Love Holly. Holly's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened, her episode was really, really good. You can go back and listen. - The very beginning. - Yes, very, very beginning. But yeah, so here's a journal in case someone says something profound.
And so, yeah, where do we want to start? I have the like photocopied version. Yeah, you have the photocopies. I think, I mean, there's a couple things that stuck out to me. Scan the first page and see to you now what pops out about this. Because this is like right around your birthday two years ago. Yeah. Wait, is it the day after? Yep. Your birthday is the 11th. Yep.
So you were driving in the un-air-conditioned Pinto on your birthday. - Yeah, I did not celebrate my birthday last year like in any-- - Two years ago. - Two years ago, yeah, wow, two years ago. - Almost. - Yep, that's wild. That is wild. I actually think I showed up-- - In some ways it feels longer ago than that. - I showed up on my birthday actually. 8/11, that afternoon is when I checked in. - Yeah. - That's wild.
Happy birthday. You get a week of intensive therapy, no phone. Yeah. And no Dr. Pepper. Yeah. That was tough. So what sticks out to you about this first page? I have one thing that I really want to talk about. I think for me,
The whole reason I was going was to help me deal with trauma, like in my life from childhood to now to there are so many different types of trauma. And to start out, something I absolutely loved was, you know, the question of what is trauma, like truly trying to understand what it is. And something that I was taught was that trauma outlives the event because it lives in the body. So
Like you can think you're past it. You're good. But like your body keeps the score. Yep. It's like your body knows. And you read that book. Yeah. Like there have been times to where something has happened. You, you've seen it with me that like something's happened and it's triggered something. And I like break down or fall apart or have a freak out, whatever it may be, because you don't realize that like,
Your body reacts before your mind reacts. - Yeah, but there's certain times and it normally correlates directly with stress where we'll get back to the house and you're like, I'm sick, I'm sick. You'll throw up. - Yeah, that's my trauma response. - You'll keep going and keep going. So your body almost does this purge and your body will continue to try to throw up all night. Once the gate gets a little bit opened,
your body's like swinging the door all the way wide and it's coming out. Like that is my trauma response. And to what a lot of people don't realize is like trauma is an injury to your nervous system. So like it, it's kind of like the toothpaste theory. Like something can be said, you know, like something, like,
You say something and that's like the toothpaste going out of the tube. Now try to like put the toothpaste back in the tube. Like it's like that same theory. It's like you only can heal something so much. And because trauma, it truly does. Like people there, you will not convince me that you can completely do away with trauma. And I'm sure onsite told you that you can't, but probably said you can compensate for it a lot. Yes. Like how you deal with it. And so one of the things that they were saying,
Talking about was the, what is it like your nervous system? You have like three primary functions and it's to experience connection, to mobilize us for protection and to immobilize us for disconnection. So.
And if you put that back, normally when therapists or therapy systems like Onsite try to explain this, they take you all the way back to like caveman days. So it's easier to explain like that. So experience connection, like you have to have a tribe, you often still have a partner, you have kids, whatever, like that's part of connection is part of the human experience.
human experience, but to mobilize us for protection back then was, are you ready if a lion comes? Yeah. It's essentially like what your body's doing. And we still are like kind of wired to do that. We're wired to fight.
flee from a threat. Yeah.
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So your body doesn't really know the difference. Like a threat is a threat to the human body. So that's what it's talking about. Mobilizing us for protection and then immobilizing us for disconnection. I actually don't know as much about this one. Do you remember what onsite said? So immobilize us for disconnection. Like your bot, like you prepare it's like,
like you turning off your feelings. - Yes, like when a relationship's going bad, you're like, all right, I'm just, I'm waiting for it to end. - Right, and we're both avoidant. Well, we don't know about you actually, do we? - I don't know what I am. - Our friends have talked about this a lot of like the anxious and avoidant attachment styles, which I actually don't know. It's really interesting watching our friend group talk about it. And then I'm like, actually, how did we all get along when we didn't know what the other one was?
I honestly don't know if I'm avoidant anymore. I feel like now I wanna talk through stuff so much.
it almost always depends on the other party. So if someone is like requiring of you so much, it's like, Hey, I need, I need, I need, you're not giving it to me. You're like, hold up. I have to protect myself. I've done this for so long with being required things being required of me. I've got to like, this is too much. I already have so much on my plate. Like you can't do that to me. So that'll turn you avoidant. Hmm.
But if someone like gives you love and takes it away, you're going to be like, why?
Yes. So I think you're probably, I'm very anxious. You're so right on that. But that's the immobilization thing for disconnection. Cause it's like, if you need to shut it off, maybe you can. Yeah. Is that right? Oh, without a doubt. If I need to shut it off, I can. Yeah. Without a doubt. So a lot of this stuff in these notes that we're going to share too, are like the tools that they taught you. Without a doubt. Yeah. Without a doubt. Like the tools, because
you, it's so, it's kind of impossible to move forward if you can't identify first off, like identifying something is really, really important because, and also realizing like giving yourself grace, because when you look at it, like trauma, it, one of the notes I have is that like trauma dramatically interferes with the body's ability to self-regulate. So like your body physically cannot self-regulate if you
have gone through trauma and you haven't like properly dealt with it. Yep. Which is really difficult. And with trauma that like, and that's the thing is trauma can be anything. Trauma can be emotional trauma, physical trauma. It can be whatever you identify as trauma being. Right.
And the identification part is really important. And of course, like we're talking, we're just talking from like the therapist, what therapists have taught us. Obviously we have no background in this. Thank you. In no way qualified to give advice, but just from like our experience is the trauma portion is the recognition. So important because like,
What trauma is trying to do is alert you and keep you safe. Yeah. So it's trying to say a lion's coming. Are you awake? A lion could come. Like, are you prepared? Taking it back to caveman stuff. So what you have to do, honestly, to like help absolve some of that trauma is to be like, I see you and I'm good.
And that's why they like the awareness is so important. Like it's not just the pain of reliving it. Like most therapists, at least modern day ones, don't make you go through every single thing that's ever happened to you until it naturally comes up. Yeah. But when it does, you almost have to go there because it's your body still trying to prepare you for like fight, flight, freeze, fawn. Oh yeah. Well, and that's the thing. It's like I've realized too, in relationship with someone, whether it's friendship, like your closest friends or friends,
like a romantic relationship, you have to help those people understand your trauma so that
And that will tell you a lot about them too. Like how they operate, like in a relationship, if you help someone understand your trauma and they still do things that cause your body to get in that fight, fight mode, then you're like, Oh, maybe this isn't the person I need to be with. Like if they can't understand your trauma and figure out how, I'm not saying a lot of people will use trauma as an excuse for poor behavior.
I say that because I have done that. Like before I went to therapy, I used the things that had happened to me in my life as an excuse for my poor behavior. It's easy to do. It is so easy to do because at the end of the day, like you don't know how to live without it. Do you also think, do you think, yeah, what? No, finish your thought. No, no, you go ahead. As I find this note. Do you think that is also like you just needing something
a break or do you really think your behavior was poor? You know what I mean? No, my behavior was poor. Okay. But I also think it was a little bit of both, but definitely it's so easy to use the things that have happened to you as an excuse for my poor behavior. Oh my. And I'm not saying this is like my story, but I'm just saying like, you know, oh, my parents left at a young age. So therefore, you know, I,
I have abandonment issues and I'm going to act this way or my spouse cheated on me. So now I can go out here and, you know, do that. Or it's so easy to fall into that pattern because you, a lot of it, what I've realized is a lot of times when you live with trauma for so long, the fear of letting the trauma go is sometimes worse than the trauma itself. What does it feel like for you to,
When you try to let it go, because I don't even know if I can answer that. You've what like you look and you're like, wow, this has been with me for 15. Oh, no, man. 20 years of almost 20 years of my life. Like this trauma has been with me. That's part of who I am. Yeah. So like if I let go of this, then who am I going to be?
Like it's one of those things where in reality, like you don't want to be known for your trauma. You want to be known for the characteristics you developed because of it. Yes. Like you're strong as hell. You're resilient. All the things that like your trauma gave you are still going to be there because you basically you were molded around it. Yeah. But like holding on to the event itself or like,
the little tiny traumas that like added up a lot of people who had like dysfunctional parents, dysfunctional relationships. Those are considered like little T traumas. Those are like your mom gave you the silent treatment and you didn't know why, or someone slammed a door in your face throughout your childhood. The big T traumas are like the ones you think of when you think of those super traumatic experiences, sexual abuse, physical abuse, all of that stuff. But they still compound like in the same way, which is just, you know,
you get to keep the characteristics that you developed because of those, even if you don't keep the trauma of the event itself, although much easier said than done to let it go. Oh, without a doubt. And it's like, and I think a good reminder is too, is like,
anyone and everyone has the right to experience like their own pain. - Right. - Doesn't matter. Like you have the right to experience it. You don't have the right to make other people a casualty to your own war. Like that's- - A casualty to your own war. - Yeah. - Did you make that up? - I did. - Damn. - I did. - You should say that again.
No, but really? Because I was having a conversation with someone that I love. And one day, and I was just like, it came from a place of hurt for me. Because like, I love this person so much. But also they're hurting me in the midst of their own struggles and their own, like they're trying their hardest to be the best they can be. But
But at the same time, like you're hurting me through that. And I just remember saying like, hey, this is so messed up. Like you don't have the right to make me a casualty to your own more. And I was like,
And they kind of stopped. And I think it really hit home because it's easy. It's so easy to make people a casualty to your own life falling apart. Like it's so easy to just put other people through it. And that really... Okay, Brene Brown. Hey, and it's so funny because that's on here. It's like one of the quotes that I have is like, I am not what has happened to me. And two, I think also believing it's so hard, like...
your history isn't your destiny is one of the things I have written down. And that's a hard one to grasp because you think like, oh, I am what has happened to me. Like this is just gonna be my future. - Do you think you actively feel that way or like that just subconsciously comes up? - Subconsciously. I think it's more of a subconscious feel, at least like I know for me, like that's a subconscious feeling.
But, but, and that subconscious feeling goes back to that fear of letting trauma go. And what's the subconscious feeling? Like name the feeling. Oh, that feeling is that subconscious feeling is all the negative things that are said to you of like, I'm not good enough or I deserve this or I could have done this differently or I could have stopped this or I could like, it's all those negative thoughts. Would that be shame? All that shame? Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. And that's the thing too, is like shame is,
I knew there was something in here about it. Shame causes us to separate from our authentic self. Shame tells us I'm wrong instead of what happened to me is wrong. Which shame, like you look at it as something that like you're shameful because you did it to yourself. That's how I've always viewed shame. It's like shame is something you have towards yourself because of actions you did. When in reality,
But what happens when those things happen as a child? Yeah. Yeah. So then you have to reevaluate. Well, I didn't have control over that, did I? And that happens in adulthood. Yes. Yes. That's so true. It happens in adulthood, too, because there are so many things that happen to you that like you don't say, hey, you're allowed to do this to me. But it happens. Right.
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Cause it's like self, there's like a self loathing underneath it. - That's all shame is. Shame is hate in my opinion. - Yeah, self hate. - Yeah. Like, and that can completely just destroy someone's life. Like your inability to love yourself, like shame. I think shame is probably one of the most deadliest like feelings and traits. - 100%. - Without a doubt. - If you look at a lot of where like personality disorders come into play,
a lot of those, if they're not pre-genetically like disposed things, they come from shame. It's so powerful that you have to push it down because it will just like almost rot you away in real time. That is so true. And you talk a lot about it. You talk a lot about shame in your notes you took.
Yeah. And I think too, it's like, there was something else too, that I wrote down that I feel like can help a lot of people because obviously I've been very open about my family dynamics and I am not great at grace. I'm not great. There are some things I'm just not great at when it comes to like people who have wronged me, but also I,
understanding your family of origin allows you to have more grace. Like there's so it's so often that we like everyone wants to put on this picture, perfect image of this is my family. You know, we're so happy this, that, but the moment you see it for what it is, this, the moment you're allowed to even give yourself grace for your feelings towards people or the situation, which is hard.
You don't afford a lot of people grace because you give yourself zero, which is, which is, I mean, really though. Yeah. Like, I think that's one of the things that you and I like have bonded over many times is like, we don't take things from people, but you better believe that however hard I was on you, I was three times as hard on me, you know? Yep. That is so true. You really can't afford, you can't afford it and give it out if you, when you don't have it for yourself. Yeah.
Yeah. Because your tolerance goes down. You and I talk about this all the time of like you expect like you expect things out of people because you have continuously shown up. You've done what you said you're going to do. You've showed up in the way that you promised to. Yeah. And when someone doesn't do that, you're like, what the hell is wrong with you? Exactly. Like because I did it. So you should do it. Right. And you probably did it times three. You're like, I'm even giving you the leeway of
You can take 60% off. Yeah. You still afford people that because you don't give it to yourself. That is so true. If you're in therapy, you know the term of like medicators. Like a therapist. Maybe not. Maybe it's just something I learned. What is it? So medicators are anything I can do to numb myself. Hold on. Where are you? I'm like on 813. I'm days in. I know.
- Hold on. - So. - Okay, I'm caught up. - You know, medicators are anything I can do to numb myself. A dependence on something external to escape something internal. And so a lot of times people think about medicators like drugs and alcohol. - Yep. - Those are the only two medicators, no.
When I started going to therapy and I started learning about these things, like medicators would be working too much, using work to not feel or using money or shopping or whatever it may be so that you truly don't have to feel what's on the inside. And I am so guilty of that. So, so guilty. But I think a lot of us are. What are yours? My medicators, I would say...
like people pleasing others you know like trying to make sure everyone else is good and taken care of and happy and you know shopping shopping's a big medicator um to just keep you busy or right now I would say probably I could be healthy it could be unhealthy but like
My medicator to help me deal with my parents' situation is to help other people that are going through the same situation. So when it comes to all the prison reform stuff, like I'm doing that because I know. And, you know, so it can be healthy until it's not healthy. Yeah. I think that's the thing. You can channel it in a way that is like productive and healthy. Yeah. And helpful. Yeah. But then it's also an extremist. Yeah. We're extremists. So we take it to completely unhealthy places.
When we're talking about the numbing and using something external, can you talk a little bit about what you learned about spiritual bypassing at onsite? Because I think this is super important, especially for your audience, because I think people that listen are they are, you know,
moms that live in South Georgia that are in their 40s and 50s. You have girls that are your age and younger, guys that are your age and younger. Like you have a wide array, but as someone from the South, South of the Mason-Dixon line in the Bible belt of how to deal with things and were raised by boomers, which can be difficult and trying. Like what did the spiritual bypassing, what did Onsite teach you about that? And how do you like define what that is? Yeah, I think, you know,
With the way that I grew up and especially in the South and when you are very religious or and honestly not even even the South maybe like, you know,
any religion I feel like it is so easy to for when something goes wrong you go to you know your spirituality whatever you believe in to justify or so what phrases would that be like give some phrase I can give some what like phrases that spiritual bypassing looks like yeah let's hear it because so something that's what that they told me on site is like spiritual to deal it instead of heal it
Which I found was interesting. Yes. Yeah. So they're saying it's okay to deal with it, but you can't heal it that way. Or
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I remember hearing this a lot as a kid, especially at funerals. You lose someone, and as a kid, you're like, this doesn't make any sense. And the matter-of-fact thing is, especially when it's someone that's young, like a grandparent, you can kind of understand. Your parents can prep you for it, and they're like, okay, whatever.
well, age comes into play and like they lived a great life, whatever. But when there's more tragic things and you have people at a funeral coming up to you and saying, well, everything happens for a reason. Yes. Well, it's in God's hands. It's all part of God's plan. Like all of that stuff. I think that's how spiritual bypassing shows up in a day to day way. Yep. And so no matter what your religion is, that can definitely be true depending on what you believe. Yes. But it doesn't necessarily mean
do much at certain times, except for make you feel like you should be trusting a process that you can't possibly understand. Yes. Like there was, so right here, it says examples of spiritual bypass, avoiding reality and what's happening in the world, deflecting any conversation that makes you feel uncomfortable or doesn't fit your spiritual ideals, seeing yourself as a chosen one,
Pretending to be happy when you're not. Pretending everything is all love and light when it's not. Okay. Using the term empath to make yourself a victim and blame other people for how you feel. Oh, so maybe I don't understand spiritual bypassing. Maybe we're not understanding it right. I'm like interested. We need to have a therapist on because I really want to talk about this. Because I think even if we didn't name it. Thinking you're super spiritual because you've done. Okay. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah. We don't, we didn't name it right then. No, I don't think we did. I think what we both thought spiritual bypassing was, was like using it to like try to make sense of trauma, but it sounds like this is something different. It's also a tendency, a tendency to use spiritual ideas and practices to sidestep or avoid facing unresolved emotional trauma. Okay. So psychological wounds and, um,
It's not like loading all the way. So we kind of are right. I think it's like an umbrella term of a lot of things. Yeah. Cause I don't think it's like this like grandiose version of how we took. Okay. This is a good one. Spiritual bypassing is when we use our spiritual practices to avoid our personal growth.
So it's so easy to say, well, like in this verse, God said he's got a reason for everything. Or in this verse, God says to do this or that. Like it's so easy to use a verse to avoid you doing your own personal work. Okay.
Yep. I don't know. I would be interested to have someone on. Yeah. I want to know. I want to know more about that, which I'm fine with not knowing the answer right now. We can have someone on that can help us explain it. I really want, because you can look at it so many different ways. Right. And regardless of what it means, I think like,
what we talked about the phrasing of like everything happens for a reason or like it's all God's plan is still a form of like trying to cope that may or may not be healthy all the time. It can put your mind at ease, but it doesn't mean that you don't deserve more help than just that. Without a doubt. What else sticks out to you in your notes? One of those, I...
The word resilient. Like, oh my God, you're so resilient. You're this, you're that. Like, I honestly forgot this because when I looked at it, it's like, yeah, that's a, thank you. Like, that's awesome. You're telling me I'm strong. You're telling me I'm resilient. But like, really, it's lonely being resilient. But like, it's very lonely. That's what I wrote in here. It's really lonely being resilient. I feel alone. And that...
is really an interesting, like at the top, like it can be really lonely. Yeah. But also being resilient is lonely because people, it feels like at times people invalidate your, your,
or the things that have happened to you because you're so resilient. It's like, oh, well, they'll be fine because they're my strongest child. What's supposed to be, what you want to take as a compliment also being such a source of
pain because it's, you know, the more resilient you are, the more people rely on you. Yes. And so you're like, well, just because I did it this many times doesn't mean I have the strength to do it again. Or like, doesn't mean I wouldn't take you up if you were going to help me. Yes. Like I would take the help all day. So the loneliness factor really, I think in loneliness is like a very,
especially when you have like a lot of people around you physically. So people don't suspect you to be, and you can feel like a lonely in any, like alone in any environment. Trauma and codependency. I feel like go hand in hand. A lot of, a lot of times they do. Yeah. Um,
And so that was something for me that I really had to work on. And I still work on it. And I'm still very codependent. Like, I feel like I need to go. What's the like AA meeting for codependency? But so it's not a Al-Anon. Yeah, like literally like so codependency is a pattern of painful dependency on compulsive behaviors and approval from others in the attempt to find safety, self-worth and identity.
So for me, I slam people with my codependency. How? So like, and most codependents are not aware of the collateral damage of that. So like slamming people with your codependency of like either doing everything for Grayson or like, because that's just what that's part of being codependent or
I'm trying to give some good examples, examples of codependency. So I know that you like, I think a lot of family systems have this. We do like mine probably does to a certain extent. It definitely does. But I do think for you, it's showing up very strong. Yeah. But I think it's,
- The way it shows up for me, and I think for you too, is wanting to give people around you, especially common with younger siblings, wanting to give them all the things you didn't feel like you had. So I don't want you to ever feel as lonely as I did. Here's something. I don't want you to ever be like not supervised
in any way, like I'm gonna watch you like a hawk. Like it's all the trauma that happened to you. You don't want it to go any further. - And a lot of times that overflows into your children because parents they're like, all right, I'm not gonna allow this to happen to you or that to happen to you or you to make the same mistakes that I made. So therefore that like that, all of that is codependency because you're now it's like, all right, I'm going to overdo, I'm gonna over show up.
you know, all these things. And that codependent relationships are literally like, it's healthy relationships look like me.
us you like a venn diagram like it it's it's healthy it's it's got it's i'm over here i'm really focusing on myself i'm putting a little bit into us you're doing the same like it's very healthy codependent is everything's a mess there are no boundaries and codependency yeah and that's the thing it's like there's no distinction between you me and us and
something that I really learned, like something I wrote down because I think this codependent, when I was speaking about codependency, it was between like me and my dad's relationship, me and Nick's relationship, like codependency really shows up in like the male relationships in my life. Um, and something that I wrote was that like, I, I said, my hope is that my experience helps us. So, um,
by me taking accountability for my own things and having a conversation with someone instead of it being like a blame game, it's like, hey, I really hope that my experience will help us. Like, so it's not, so you're not blaming. And,
Something I really loved that they taught me was, you know, recover. This allows us to feel. Uncover allows us to see what's been layered on. Rediscover allows us to reconnect with our whole selves so we can connect with other people in healthier ways. Recover, uncover, and rediscover.
And I had to learn to communicate differently. One big thing, something else was I want to connect with you in a way that works for both of us. That's hard to do because a lot of times we look at it in a way of like, well, I wanna connect, I just wanna connect with you. That is a very selfish thing to say. I just wanna connect with you.
what if how i'm trying to connect with you doesn't work for you and is that connection or you're like what is it they call it like a bid for connection like you're bidding to someone to connect like who's that for like figuring it out like figuring out is that for me is that for you because you need it to feel safe like you need a hug like you need someone to talk to you even though they're struggling and they need to process like are you bidding for those connections in a way that
is also healthy for someone who doesn't have the same attachment style and history as you. Which I'm sure you've run into. - Oh, without a doubt. - Where it's like, well, I need to talk. And the person's like, whoa, I need to process. - Yeah. - Like I gotta get out of this. - Instead it's like, hey, do you have space to hold what I need to talk to you today about? - And if you don't,
what they would say is for the other person to say, I don't right now, but I think I will in a day or I will in two days or I will in an hour and to give the person who needs it like a time frame. - But there's also a very fine line with this because it can get really messy with having those boundaries because so many people use boundaries as a weaponization. - That's true.
Like, oh, well, my boundaries say I can't do this, this and this. Like so many people use a boundary to weaponize someone else when a boundary should be used for a healthy relationship. Right. So that's where it gets really hard. And I think, too, just like being able to.
On this next page, which I found really interesting, was an acronym for fear. Because fear is like seen as such a negative thing. But really, you can view it as a friendly exchange about reality. Like fear is like bad. We all want to stay away from fear. But really, fear can help us get to where we need to get to as long as we have that friendly exchange about reality and where you're at.
And all of these things kind of go together. Whenever you talk about codependency, you talk about trauma, you talk about fear, shame. I mean, shame is really like letting others define who you should be. Right. Like letting others, letting other emotions. But also a quote that I wrote down was at the core of at the core of chronic shame is an absence.
And that is the absence of connectedness. It's like all about it all kind of like comes back to like connection and isolation and like loneliness. And like you look at it because first, for instance, like depression, like I have suffered from depression, like very high functioning depression, but like depression is hidden anger, right?
Like depression is just an interesting way to put words. That's an interesting way to put depression. Yeah. Cause I don't think about it like that, like necessarily, but I mean, I guess that makes sense. Yeah. Like hidden anger and it's all these things in words that you're dealing with. And you know, it's like,
Like you've used sadness as something and it's acknowledging what we really care about. So it's like, you have to look at all these words of like shame, depression, anxiety, like things that have such a negative connotation around it. And you're like, all right, it's fine that I feel this way. 100%. Because like depression is really just hidden anger. Sadness is really just me acknowledging something that I care about. Like there's all these different things and it's,
I think, you know, being authentic can be messy. Like being authentic, standing up for what you believe in, like expressing your emotions. All of it can be like messy, but you have to be able to be vulnerable to have a relationship. And like, that's where I struggle is like the vulnerability aspect of things and realizing that like, all right, you're on the same team with someone, whether it's a family member, a spouse, a
boyfriend hopefully your friends your friends like you always have to be on this you have to realize like hey we're on the same team yeah we may say things at times that may hurt each other's feelings but one of the greatest things that i heard that week was you have to be able to catch a bullet and put it down yeah i saw that in your notes and i was like damn like you have to be able to catch something someone says and
and put it down and not let it pierce you. Because it's not said when you know someone loves you, they're not saying something to hurt you. They're just saying, they may not know how to communicate. They may, you have to be able to put it
Like you've got to be able to put it down because if you're going for an intimate relationship with someone, you have to realize like, hey, we're on the same team. I know that's like so important. And I know like we have to wrap, but I think we should probably bring somebody back on that can define all the things that we don't know about. Because I don't like.
let's not teach spiritual bypassing the wrong way. But I think like my main thing that I took away from therapy in general, and obviously we're both clearly huge candidates for it is just sometimes it feels really scary to dig into it because it feels like you're going to have to feel it all again. And in some ways you are, but the defining of it and bringing terms to it actually makes it a lot easier. Like when you don't have words for things, like I can't name that. I don't know like what it's
you really can't tackle it because it just feels like this like pool of stuff in your head. And like, you just don't know what you're swimming in. We can give it, oh, shame is, you know, it's this, it's anger, it's depression, it's anger, like all these things. Like, oh, I can, like, I can tackle that because I know how to, what to call it.
Exactly. And so I think too, like you said, I think we like, I really want to get a therapist on to talk about these right here, right here, right now, but we can't do that. So before, as we wrap though, I just want to leave everyone with a few things. This is kind of like my little bullet point at the end. And it's just like a few tips or a few things that may help you in certain areas of your life.
Instead of using I need, include why. Like you've got to include the why. The I need leads to more of a closed off, shame-filled response from someone. Because it means you didn't give it to me. Yeah. And I need it. Yeah, that makes sense to me. And another is self-attunement creates the ability to respond instead of react. 98% of all fights are a race to victimhood.
which are what to victimhood 98 of all of fights are a race to victimhood a race to victim yeah like who's gonna who's gonna one yeah who won yeah who won and that's all about being the victim right um another which was really hard for me forgiveness is not a prerequisite to healing i don't have to forgive you in order for me to heal
Yeah. And that's one that's kind of like drilled into our heads too, is like you, I think it's, we've come around a little bit to realize you don't necessarily have to totally forgive before you can create like whatever closure you need. And then the last one that I think is the perfect place to end on is just a reminder that there's so much space out there in the world and like you take up as much as you need.
Take up as much space as you possibly need to be yourself, to be happy, to just take. There's so much space. Yeah. Take up as much as you need. I love that.
So until next time, we're getting a therapist on and I actually have one that I really want to get on. It was actually my therapist that I used for a really long time and love her, love her, love her. So I'm going to see if I can't get her on because I feel like that would be good. She's going to feel bombarded by us. I know. We're going to be really prepared for that. All right. I can't match the talent next time. Stream your favorite drama movies and TV shows on Pluto TV.
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