“Let Go, Let God” ft. Julie Chen Moonves 57:43

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- Welcome back to Unlocked guys. This episode, we're actually gonna start off a little different. Julie, if you will, do you wanna open this in prayer? - I would love to. - Okay. - After I say a few words, would you like to also? - Yes.

Heavenly Father, thank you so much for this moment in time, bringing me and Savannah together with these beautiful hearts in this room. I ask that you open our hearts and align them with yours. Please give me the words to express what you have done for me in my life so that anyone listening today

opens up their heart to you and draws closer to you. Because as I know, once we open the door to you and draw closer, you draw closer to us and life is never the same. May this podcast, this episode provide peace, hope and understanding and just create more disciples of Jesus. Yes.

First off, I do want to start off by saying this episode I've been so excited for, but today I woke up needing this a little bit more than I knew I did. I just thank God for...

giving me this platform and allowing Julie to be here today and just sit down with me and help to make me feel comfortable, open up my heart, because a lot of things align. And Lord, I just hope you take this episode and speak to those who may be struggling, who may be questioning things, who may just not know which way to turn and just give us the voices to speak you. And

Let's make this a great episode. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. So for those that don't know, we have Julie Chin Moonves, right? Beautifully said. Thank you. Beautiful. Yeah. So you are best known for obviously being on the talk, but...

- Big Brother. - But first? - Ever, yes, but first, Big Brother, since 2000, right? - Yeah, since it started 25 seasons ago. - That is crazy. - Summer of 2000. And it was not my intention to do a reality show. Reality TV was just starting then. It was pretty much Survivor and that's it. - Yes. - And I was working my career in news. I always thought I just wanted to become the next Barbara Walters or Diane Sawyer.

And there I was. And then they approached me. CBS approached me to also, in addition to anchoring the morning news. And I had only been there five months, seven months to also host this little show that they were trying out called Big Brother. Just a small summer reality show. And little did you know, it was going to turn into a phenomenon. Yeah.

who knew we would still be here? We didn't even think we would survive the first season because we paled in comparison in a lot of ways to Survivor. And the critics didn't like us and the ratings weren't as big as Survivor's ratings. And we just kind of kept plodding along and

now here we are still, still going, still strong. That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. Because we know in today's day and age, everything is getting canceled. So yes, yes, that is standing firm. Thank goodness. So, but before that, so, okay, I've started listening to your audio book, but first God, yes, it's titled, but first God, and it is amazing. First time

Just hearing your voice is so soothing. Thank you. I'm sitting there getting ready and I'm listening to it. And it's so amazing. But you speak about kind of your journey that led you to where you're at today. And you ended up going to USC for journalism that...

you really weren't planning on doing that. - No, it wasn't really, I didn't get into any of my first, second, third, fourth choice colleges. My first choice was to go to Penn and I thought I would be a business major because I was very good at math and it just felt like, I don't know, where I wanted to go.

I didn't get in there and I thought, oh, okay, maybe I'll go to Boston College. And I got waitlisted there. And then I did get into NYU, but I didn't want to go there because I grew up in Queens. You wanted something different. I wanted to get out of the city, out from, you know, under my parents' roof. And my mom wanted that too. I really gained my independence. And

And USC, it wasn't really even on my radar, but I got a letter in the mail from them, from the journalism school specifically to apply. Wow.

And I was like, wow, that's really far away, not on my radar. Okay, I'll apply. And then basically that's the only school I got into. So I went there. So God said, you're going West, young woman. And I did. That's amazing. So then you go to USC, but you said after you graduated, it took a while to gain traction. Four years. So when I went to USC journalism school, all my friends and I, we wanted to all be the next Barbara Walters. Mm-hmm.

And what you do is you send out resume tapes and you send them to small towns and everyone else got a job. One girlfriend went to Lubbock, Texas, another went to Erie, Pennsylvania, and I kept getting rejection after rejection after rejection.

And I did get a job out of college, but working behind the scenes, news gathering at ABC News, because when I was in college, I had worked for them. So they hired me out of college. But, you know, you're answering phones, you're doing, you know, for sure, stuff inside. Not what you want to do. Not in front of the camera. And it took four years for me. And I did get a little bit lazy. You know, I started making a good living.

and I started producing news. You were kind of just content with where you were. Yeah, I got very comfortable. But then after four years, I became like the joke of my friends. They're like, all right, we've been out of school. How long have you gotten that second story done on your resume tape yet? I'd be like, no, I'm still working on it. That's amazing. So it took, what would you say,

Because, I mean, it took four years, so it was easy to lose hope. And well, is it going to happen? Is it going to happen? When did you get your big break?

Well, there used to be... So you know that show Inside Edition? Yes. They had a sister show called American Journal. And I saw in the newspaper that they were looking to hire three young reporters under the age of 25 to travel the country. And each week, like one week, I would be the camera operator and...

someone would be the reporter and someone else would be like the writer. And you were supposed to travel the country in a Winnebago and, you know, tell stories about America. And I was one of 10 finalists who got flown into New York to do these group interviews. And I wasn't one of the three who got picked. I didn't get the job, but the seven rejects, me being one of the seven rejects, got our resume tapes sent to an agent. And God bless America.

Shirley Barish. She was one of the first agents to represent anyone in TV news. She was legendary, old school. And she took me on and she got me my first break in Dayton, Ohio. That is amazing. So Dayton, Ohio, you started there. I started there as a general assignment reporter and the news director who hired me, he said, um,

My vision is in a couple of months, you'll be the morning news anchor. The morning news anchor, she's going to move to the evenings because the woman who had done evenings for a couple of decades was retiring. Okay.

But this news director, he got a bigger and better job in a few months and went to Washington, D.C. And I was locked into a three year contract in Dayton. So the new news director comes in and I tell him of this wonderful plan that the old boss had. And he's like, those are not my plans at all.

And he said, as a matter of fact, you will never anchor here because we don't really have a big Asian community in Dayton and you're just not relatable to...

to our viewing audience. And that's what most people don't realize is in the entertainment world, it is cutthroat. People don't care how they make you feel. They don't care. It's how much money are you going to make me? Oh my gosh, I couldn't. But you know, it was really a blessing that he said this because then I knew, all right,

I don't have a future here. Let's start working on my resume tape to get to a city where there is a bigger Asian community. Like New York, where I grew up, or LA, where I went to school, or San Francisco. And because of those words, it's kind of like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I was determined. I was more determined than ever. And because of that, I did end up leaving Dayton

almost a year earlier than my three-year contract would allow because I got a job in New York City. That's amazing. But would you say that those words later led to, because you speak about it in your book, later led to...

plastic surgery and changing your appearance. Oh, it wasn't so much his words, but it was in that quest to get out of Dayton. I started meeting with, so Shirley Barish, may she rest in peace. She ended up passing away. So I was shopping for a new agent to help me with my exit plan from Dayton. And one of the agents that I met with and he,

He was a big time agent. He represented a couple of very big names in broadcasting. And he said to me very straightforward and he wasn't offensive. He just said, listen, I noticed in your resume tape when you're nodding your head and looking at the person you're interviewing, your eyes look very heavy. Your upper eyelids are heavy. You should get this eyelid surgery because you look disinterested.

And he had a whole pamphlet for me, a doctor in Los Angeles, pictures, newspaper articles. And I took it.

Called my mom. My parents were totally supportive. And I booked some time off and some time in Los Angeles. And I got this plastic surgery done, this eyelid surgery, which is essentially, if anyone listening doesn't know what I'm talking about, is most Asian people have extra fat on their upper eyelids. And it hangs over so you don't see the line. You don't see the crease. And I didn't have that natural line, that crease. So they basically take out this extra fat.

fat stitch it up and you have a bigger appearing eye shape wow and i had it done and and this agent said to me you don't have to get it done but if you get it done you're going to a top 10 market in your next job he's like you don't get it done don't know where you're right we don't know we don't know

But he's like, you definitely have, you know, like the talent, but you need a look. Yeah. A better look. So I didn't sign with him, but I'm grateful that he gave me that great advice. And so where did you go? When was the time frame that you ended up on Big Brother and The Talk?

Okay, so then I work in local news in New York City. That's from 97 to 99. Okay. So two years working covering local news in New York. The great news is all the decision makers who run the network, they're in New York. So because I was there for two years, they hired me to go do the morning news at CBS Network News. So I was going from covering local stories in New York City to then being on the national news desk in the morning.

So that was 99. And then in 2000, they offer me Big Brother. Okay. So I'm doing Big Brother every summer and doing the morning news at CBS. And then in 2009, I had a baby and I thought, I can't do these early morning hours anymore. I was looking for an out.

And CBS was putting together a daytime panel talk show called The Talk. But we were one of five shows that the network was testing. They were testing like a cooking show with Emeril Lagasse. They were doing like a very, you know, kind of like a Kelly Ripa, like a male-female hosted show with Valerie Bertinelli and this guy from Australia. Yeah.

So we were and I don't remember what the other two I think maybe like the pyramid game show like they were bringing that back trying to see what would stick. Right. So we shot a pilot and we were the ones that got picked up. So I left Morning News and I moved full time to Los Angeles to do the talk in Los

fall of 2010. wow i mean i just i do have to say like having you on i remember the talk being on our tv all the time with my mom so i'm like okay this is kind of great so it was so much fun you know we went through uh our growing pains that first year because that first year we decided the way it was branded was a panel talk show all women all who are moms

who are going to talk about today's headlines through the lens of motherhood.

Then that got a little bit limiting. And season two, we kind of... Because you automatically cut out a whole demographic of people. Yeah. And so who were your co-hosts? My co-hosts were Sharon Osbourne, Sarah Gilbert, Leah Remini, and Holly Robinson-Pete and myself. Okay. Those are the five. And then season two, it was me, Sarah,

Sarah Sharon, we brought in a great standup comedian who's still there. Cheryl Underwood came in season two and Aisha Tyler, who is an actress. She had been on friends. She had, you know, she has a standup career and, you know, she's right now on Criminal Minds.

So, um, and that group really clicked. I mean, you had two out of the five who are professional comedians. I mean, how could it not? Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was a barrel of laughs. So with the talk, obviously you speak about in your book. Now you mentioned you have a son and that's with your now husband, correct? Yes. Yes. And so I, I want to

I want to touch on it just because there's some correlation just with things with my family and being in the public eye and just being completely lambasted by people. And you speak in your book about your husband. He was he built CBS.

He ran it for, yeah, he brought it back to become like the Tiffany Network. Yeah. For 24 years. 24 years. Yeah. So he is known to be like an it person in that world. Yeah. When he first came to CBS, he was just running entertainment, present entertainment. And the ratings were so bad.

We used to come in like sixth place behind like reruns of certain shows on the independent stations. It was bad. You know, he used to have this joke. He's like,

the youngest and sexiest star we have is Angela Lansbury who, you know, was the teapot and like, you know, in, in, uh, voice the teapot in beauty and the beast, you know, the animated film, uh, murder. She wrote was the, um, was the program, but yeah, he really turned things around. And then in 2018, you kind of speak about your whole world just being thrown up in smoke. Yeah. He left his job. I left my job. Um,

And it was life as I knew it just completely got turned upside down. But what I know now is I needed that to happen for me to stop and finally hear the

God calling, you know, God had been knocking every day, you know, and God's a gentleman. So he's knocking. Oh, I'm too busy. I can't, I can't come out. You're not going to stop till you listen. No. And that was the big thing. Cause you both were now had left your jobs and you,

Because that's the thing is he there was controversy surrounding his whole leaving with like allegations of this, that and the other. And you went through a lot because at that point in time, you had been going by your maiden name. Right. And then you started going by your married name. And what was that all about? That was about I.

There were a lot, there was a lot of speculation and buzzing about like whether I was going to stand by my husband or not. And I was not discussing any of it publicly, but people were

Just printing, you know, rumors and gossip and lies. And now you have a child. Yes. Is having to live through this and we'll have to see those things. Yes. And, you know, paparazzi were outside his school, outside our house. And it was too much. And I remember we were moving back into our home after doing some renovation work.

And so when they saw like the moving boxes outside my house, they're like, oh, she's moving out on him. So I thought, you know, when I married him, I kept my maiden name because I had already made a career. A career. As Julie Chen. So I thought, OK, I'm signing off on Big Brother at the height of all this speculation. And it's a live show.

And I'm just going to sign off Julie Chen Moonves, which in one, you know, just saying that one sentence, I'm Julie Chen Moonves. It let everyone know, oh, where I stand and what the truth was. And I didn't have to say anything else. That's amazing. See, I look at that and I commend that because in a time of

You're living in the public eye and people expect you to go with what's hot today and what everyone's telling you to believe versus what you know in your heart is the truth. And by doing that, you took a lot of risk. Yeah. Which people don't realize. I mean that and that's hard and your professional and personal life. This episode of Unlocked is brought to you by BetterHelp. You guys know I've spoken about BetterHelp.com.

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When was it that you stepped away from the talk? Yep. It was days later. Because you speak in your book about how it was that you stepped down. But in reality, I was forced to step down. You were forced to step down. It was funny because when I did take my husband's last name, I remember one of the producers on the talk, they were like, wow, you know, that was a really big deal. Like people didn't know

People were all like sympathetic for you, but by you doing that now people are against you. And, but aside from that, because the public, they get, they get over things or they move on. They don't really care after the headline, right? You know that. But the worst part was that two of my four co-hosts

said we are not comfortable working with her anymore and we won't come back. We won't be, if she comes, we won't be there. So I had to get a phone call from the then head of CBS daytime. And she said, I can't believe I'm making this call right now, but I need you to stay home. I need you to stay home tomorrow. Cause the next day we were launching our brand new season of the talk.

after being on hiatus for like six weeks. And I thought, okay, I thought it was just going to be a day. Then it was going to be a week. And I believe it was that week when I took my husband's last name. And it was just, it all kind of was the perfect storm. It all came together. And when I stayed home that first day and I watched the show, it was like watching my own funeral. Because I saw two of my former co-hosts who I considered friends.

you know friends you're working every single day together for eight years yeah and they just buried me there was no way i could go back to work after seeing what they said about me it just i wasn't going to be welcomed there it became so obvious that day and that's the tough part is when you go through such public scrutiny you really find out who your true friends are

And who really who's there and who's not. Yeah. And, but now I look at it and I say, you know what? That's God doing you a favor. Yeah. Revealing. Yes. Revealing to you what the truth, what you should know. I mean, you don't want to have enemies too close to you thinking that they're friends. So, um,

but that really led to, so suddenly I had a lot of free time on my hands and that really brought me to my knees questioning and just, you know, why is this all happening? Uh, would you say that in a way you sort of had like an identity crisis? Yeah. Because that show was my whole identity, you know? Um,

I was always a working woman and that was probably took up, you know, the most hours of my waking, of my life. So now it's like, now what? And that's when I fell to my knees and started praying to God for help and for answers and to find my way out of this darkness. That was just, you know, I was overcome with this darkness.

in my life at that point. A lot of anger, confusion, but a lot of anger, a lot of bitterness. Because there was a lot, and I think there was a lot that wasn't true that was being put out there on the headlines and on, and you couldn't defend yourself because you were really...

There's a saying and it's like, you're damned if you do damned if you don't. Right. That was the position that you were in. No, you couldn't address anything. You couldn't. You're just going to feed the monster more. Exactly. And how would you say did, how did that affect your marriage at the time? My marriage was always, you know, rock solid because we, we were in this business a long time. So we know you can't believe everything you read. And it,

I know my husband and he knew me. So if anything, it glued us together and made us stronger as one unit. - Because at the end of the day, that's all that you have. People that say they're your friends, that say they're, really all you have is each other. - Yeah, yeah. No one's gonna have your back like a parent or your partner, your spouse. - Exactly.

Wow. So, and I see, yeah, I'm like, it, it either brings you together or pulls you apart. Right. Like any tragedy, you know, you can start pointing fingers, you can start blaming, but no, we, you know, I felt like,

These are just the circumstances. How are we going to pivot from here? Never did it cause a wedge between us. We were in it together. Would you say by that time, though, in a way you were somewhat numb to it because early in your relationship, you dealt with

negative things in the press and things that were not true. And so I feel like... But this was like a whole nother level. Yeah. But I was, you know, already what, like 14, 15 years into my marriage. So we had a strong foundation, but there was a feeling of like helplessness, you know, and when you feel helpless, there's only one person who can help you. Yeah. And that's God. You know, he will deliver you through.

but was there a specific moment that you finally just said like i can't do this alone like it's god or it's it was it was a morning after thanksgiving of 2018 when i got an email from my aunt who is born again christian and she's my favorite aunt

And she didn't become born again until like the 90s. And she never was pushy with her faith. She and my uncle, her husband, became born again. He's a 9-11 survivor. He was in one of the towers when it got hit. He's a cancer survivor.

- God bless them. - Yes, and they are still alive and well, God willing today. And she emailed me one morning, November, 2018, and said that her good friend from their church back in New Jersey had been praying for me and my husband and my family. And I thought, "I've never met this friend." And she said, she goes, "My friend asked me to introduce you to Jesus Christ and God touched her."

and asked her to do this. And up until that point, I had been thinking for a few months, oh God, I'm going to go to church. I'm going to go to church. You know, just please see us through this. But I never went to church. But when I got that email that morning, I thought, this is a sign. It's a Thursday morning. I'm going to church today. I dropped off my son at school and I actually went into a church that I had driven past

millions of times right by my house. And there are three churches in a row. And I mean, the fact that the doors were open on a Thursday at like 8:40 in the morning. - Yeah. - And I just got into a pew by myself

And I broke down and I just like ugly sobbing, you know, asking for God's guidance and help out of this hole that I was in. And then I started going to Sunday services that Sunday moving forward. I wasn't, um, I wasn't great about it every Sunday. I went that Sunday to that church, didn't really understand the mass. It was a Catholic mass. I went to, uh,

the other church, you know, on that same block along that same street the next Sunday, but I got the time wrong, the services and it was rented out for a different meeting. So then I went to the third church where I am a member now and that service, everything about it just spoke to me. It was very easy for me to understand. It was very welcoming.

And now I go every Sunday with my son. My husband started going with us in the beginning too. Okay. And that was more of, I wanted my son to come with me. I went by myself for a few weeks and I loved the piece. I thought, oh, this is important for my son to go to. But my son suddenly said, he's like, I'm Jewish, mom. I'm like, dad, I'm Jewish. How come dad doesn't have to go?

So I said to my husband, like, come on, you got to help me. And he said, come on, Charlie, we're all going. We're all going. And then, and then this is God. We walk in. My husband is singing the hymns the loudest. He knew the hymns. He said, don't you know this song? I said, no. How do you know it? He goes, this is a song we used to sing in school growing up at Thanksgiving. And that's God. And that's what I tell Pete. I've learned, especially in the past nine months of my life, that

to listen to the little signs or to pay attention to the little signs. And it's, I would say about three, about three weeks ago,

It was a Thursday and I woke up and I was like, this is just a bad day. I think there was just so much going on and I was missing my parents. I was dealing with the two kids. I, there was just a heaviness that I had. And that afternoon I was like, all right, I can't do this anymore. And there is a church up the street from me and it's open 24 hours a

And you go in and it's more, it's Catholic. You can light a candle, say a prayer, whatever you need to do. And I went in there and it just happened to be like 10 minutes before a group was getting together for prayer. And I was sobbing. I was just on my knees. This was a church I went to with my parents every single day for like three months up until they left. And we would go every day and pray. And

I'm sitting there sobbing and this lady, she comes up to me and she was like, can I hug you? And she was like, can I sit here and pray with you?

I was like, yeah, like I would love that. And she sat there for like 30 minutes and just talked to me and prayed with me. And little did I know, I feel like your body knows things. Like God has a way of telling you things before it actually happens. And little did I know that Saturday would be when my ex-fiance passed away in a motorcycle accident. Oh,

And it was literally that Thursday. Like I just, there was a heaviness on me and then he passed away that Saturday. And I was like, well, that I feel like that was God preparing me for that moment.

And I, that's my biggest thing now is I'm like, I'm more intentional about paying attention to the little things that happen and maybe what God's telling you to do in those times. Yes. And I feel like with your life, that's been now when you read, when you're listening to your book and,

You hear those moments. Yeah. And now looking back on your life, you're like, oh, that was God putting me at USC. That was God putting me in these situations. Absolutely. But when I wasn't acknowledging him in my life, I just...

you know, ignored him. I never brought him into the picture, but now looking back at everything through, you know, my Jesus glasses, I see that he was part of all of it the whole time. And I actually often pray for what you were describing. I pray for God to give me his eyes and his ears to see, um,

what he sees and hear what he hears, listen to people with his ears, you know, see his reflection in all his creations. Well, and you speak to about now, because it was at 48 that you started this journey with Christ, right? Yeah, it's never too late.

I thought I knew it all. I thought, you know, I'm a journalist. I've worked my whole life. I know a little bit about everything. But what I knew nothing about was God's word, the Bible, which was very intimidating for me to start studying it. And I really didn't know much about God, to be honest. You know, his character or who he is and why he created us.

us. So starting at age 48 and starting to study the Bible, it was very intimidating. It was a lot to take on. And it's actually what helped lead to But First God, because I thought, oh, I know, I'm

it'll be easier if I listen to the Bible. It's hard to say I'm going to read it, you know, every day and read the whole Bible, which is 66 books. So I thought, oh, I'm going to listen to it. And I couldn't find an audio version that I found easy to digest. Everything sounded very Shakespearean, whether it was the King James version or not. And I actually called up Simon & Schuster where I had written a children's book that came out in 2018. And I said, okay,

I will read an audio version of the new international version of the Bible for free. 'Cause I thought, well then I will- - Wow. - I will have read the Bible, right? If I have to do it. - Yeah. - And I don't wanna get paid for it. I wanna do it anyway. And if it's attached to a project, I'll get it done.

And they said that they weren't actually interested in that, but they said, but what we are interested in is you telling your journey of, you know, coming, coming to God, my come to Jesus moment and, and so on. That's amazing. So that's how, that's how this audio original came about. But first God. That's, but see, that goes to show that when you are seeking God,

God, he shows up. Oh yeah. That's my life verse is James from the book of James chapter four, chapter four, verse eight, draw near to God and he will draw nearer to you. And also the backend of that either right before or right after it's like the opposite of that, which is flee from the devil and he will flee from you. Yep.

Because trust me, he's always hanging around. Oh, without a doubt. That loser liar, he's got nothing better to do. Without a doubt. And I feel like the older I get, the more I learn that you have to be more intentional about prayer. And there's a quote, and I'm

I'm going to completely butcher it. So I'm not even going to try it, but it basically says like you ask God for like, to give you strength. Yeah. He's going to put you through the trials to give you strength. Like ask him. And it's like, be careful. Maybe instead you get, you have to watch how you word things. You have to, and you have to be more intentional about it. And that's, I just love that you now have this audio book that gives people hope.

And it allows people to realize that it's never too late. Oh, it's never too late. I mean, I being, you know, trained, gone, going to journalism school and working in journalism, like I thought I knew everything. And I thought, you know,

I need to see tangible proof of things to be true. Well, that's how journalism used to be. It used to be. That's how journalism should be, but it is not. And now what I'm, what I've learned and I'm learning is that faith is believing what you cannot see. And, uh,

Yeah, that's now that's a that's great. It's a great motto to have when it comes to faith. But let's but people taking that on in journalism and I am not a fan of that. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you speak about that also about there being an article that came out that said there was a huge blow up and a meeting at the talk. But yet there was no one to corroborate this.

Oh, yeah. It was the story was was that I stood up on a chair in front of the entire staff of the talk saying, you make me want to vomit to everybody. And even the article said, like, we couldn't get anyone to corroborate the story. But like this anonymous source who said,

was the source behind just a real-- - All the negativity. - It was a hit job on me. It was like the chips were down, let's get her. And I thought, well, what kind of journalism is that where you're trusting one source who won't even be named, who has an ax to grind and no one else that you've talked to at the talk said that happened.

They actually said the opposite. So like you cover your butt by saying like, no one else can corroborate this, but this anonymous source says this happened. Exactly. Come on. Now, since you've become a follower of Christ, has that changed your viewpoints on journalism? Oh, no, I wouldn't say it has changed my viewpoints on journalism because journalism was already, you know, like going down this very slippery slope where it's

I don't trust, even before coming to Jesus, there are a lot of sources I didn't trust. And even, you know, fine publications that say,

a lot of credibility. You know, they've all gone through their issues, whether it's 60 Minutes or the New York Times. You know, they've had stories that later on, like, oh, that journalist, you know, made up sources, made up the story, this and that. So, but now that Jesus is in my life as my Lord and as my Savior, I haven't, that hasn't affected me much

And how I view journalism, because it was already on the decline anyway. Without a doubt. I say that right now we are in desperate need of some sort of legislation when it comes to journalism to hold people accountable. Yes. Because I've like I felt it firsthand with you a little bit. I like to say there's like 5% truth there.

And then the rest is just fabricated around it to make it seem like this great story. And what people listening don't realize is every time you click on that link, they get paid. They get paid. Yeah, they get paid money. So they're going to do whatever they have to do in order to make it hot and make you want to click. And they know you're not going to sue them.

Exactly. Or they expect you don't. Most people don't. They don't want to go through that heartache, right? It's not worth their time. Yeah. Oh, trust me. We did. We sued. Who was it? Uh...

There was a guy that was with Radar Online. And yeah, we sued them because we finally were just like, we're done. We're tired of it. It's nothing but constant lies. And I want to say there was like a positive outcome that came from it. But it's also so hard because there isn't that legislation surrounding these people. Put in place, right, that would make them think twice. Exactly. And that's the hard part, as I say, especially now.

When there's kids involved, especially when there's kids involved, that's got to be off limits. That's the tough part. And that's what people I now know with like Chloe and Grayson. I'm like, say whatever you want to say about me. But the moment you start talking about them, it's I'm like, it's a done deal. Yeah. And it's just...

really, that's really evil. Yeah. And that's like, I, that's why I was, when I was listening to your book and they, you started talking about like the school offering you a different parking spot to try to avoid the press. I was like, that is just when it gets dirty. Yeah. Who does that? Yeah. And whoever's doing it, like, are you a parent? Exactly. That's the tough part. And it's so hard to not, have you found that, especially during that time, was it so hard to not fight back?

No, because I know when you fight back, you're giving them exactly what they want. A reaction, right? You just have to keep it moving. Just keep it moving. So, yeah. No, because, you know, I was a member of the press. So I know exactly what you're walking into if you do that. You're playing into their hands. So it wasn't hard for me. But it was...

It was frustrating, you know, and at times it felt debilitating. Yeah. Because you don't get to share your truth, which is the really tough part. But God knows the truth. Mm hmm.

That is so true because I now watch some people who were part of the downfall. I now watch their lives and I'm like, it's not a coincidence. Your life is going the way it's going right now after the things you've done. Yeah, there is no such thing as a coincidence. Either God ordains it or he allows it.

His hand, he is in control. So like when you were saying earlier about that verse, that God will, Romans 8, 28, God will use all things, things that were meant to harm you. He will turn it around. For good. For good. For your good. For his kingdom agenda good. And in his time, you know, learning patience. And it's not for me to question or anyone to question. God knows.

And that's when faith comes in like so strong, like having faith in God and having trust in the Lord and not leaning on our own understanding. Oh, that's when you get, I've realized that's when I get in the most trouble in life is when I keep trying to just, it's like the Energizer bunny. You just go, go, go, go, go. Instead of taking a second to sit back and listen and pay attention to what's going on in front of you. And I say, I just did this.

a show on Fox called Special Forces. And I went into it and I was like, oh, it's going to be super tough physically. Like that was the only part I was worried about. And then I got there and I realized how tough it was mentally.

And but after doing the show, I was like, it taught me so much about myself. And it taught me because I got through like three, I would say three episodes of it. And I was like, all right, it's time for me to go home. But I've always been such a perfectionist in life. Like if it's not great, then it's bad. Like if it's not great, it's bad. And then doing that show, I started looking at myself and I was like, you know what? During this time, I

I have two kids at home. I don't have much help. My grandparents are in their 70s. Like I that's who they were left at home with. And I started struggling. And then I sat back and I was like, wait, like I showed up. Like sometimes that's all you can do. Like showing up is enough. Oh, yeah. And then I started thinking, well, do I want Chloe and Grayson to be as hard on themselves as I'm being on me?

And I was like, no. So if I don't want that for them, why is that okay for me? And I realized like, all right, God put me in that position to realize that, hey, you don't always have to do everything perfect. Like just showing up is enough sometimes. And there's only one person who's perfect. That's God. Exactly. We're not perfect. And you trying to make everything perfect, you know, it's kind of like being a control freak, right? Not just letting go and letting God. Mm-hmm.

that 100 so would you say now you've got your audio book that's come out and what's next what's next that's a very good question only the lord knows i mean i know that anything that i do um and i've felt this way for the last few years is that it has to be in the faith space you know yes we are um

up the 25th season of Big Brother. And as of this recording, as we're sitting here, they haven't announced yet, you know, another season. But I say expect the unexpected. And I don't know. I just want to use any and every avenue that I have to promote unity, peace, love, God's word. You know, I started a very small podcast

show on my Instagram account called God 101. And it's, um, a panel talk show where we talk about, um, everything through the lens of, of Jesus, you know, whether like one episode was, if you have too much fear in your life, that's because you don't have faith or are you a control freak? Um, or like is grumbling a sin? Yes, it is. Yeah.

And that little show is something that I would like to see expand beyond just my Instagram account. Which is amazing because especially since COVID, people are so desperately searching for something to believe in. Yeah. Something to believe in because COVID left us all feeling alone. It left us all feeling isolated. And you've seen an uptick in people believing

gravitating towards Christianity and a cleaner lifestyle. And that I'm like, maybe there is hope. Maybe there's hope for society. Absolutely. Like I always felt like with COVID, God hit the pause button on the entire world and said, can you hear me now? Because we were all forced to suddenly stay home with our families.

You know, life as we knew it got turned upside down. And I was like, yeah, I can hear you now. Loud and clear. I'm not a busy little bee running off, filling my day with, you know, silly things that I think I have to get done. Yeah. It'll take care of itself. And we saw, okay, now we're living in isolation. No, we weren't meant to live in isolation. We were meant to live in community. You know? That is so true. I...

I never realized how much I needed people. Yes. Until that moment. Yeah. Because I was very much like woman, hear me roar. I can do it by myself. I don't need anyone. Like I'm fine. And then in that moment you realize like you need people, you need unity, you need people to love on you and vice versa. Yeah.

But I mean, I don't know about the people listening. I mean, I would love to see you on my TV every day again. You know, like I think something like The View for you to come in and just like disrupt, you know, like it would be a calming presence on that show. But would it be calming for me? Fair point. You know, if we could do something like a panel daily talk show, like

faith-based. I would love that. And it doesn't mean there can't be humor. Well, of course. And that's the thing in faith, like you're just because you're a follower of Christ doesn't mean you have to be perfect. It doesn't mean that you're not going to mess up. It doesn't mean that you're not going to fall short. Right.

And that's the biggest part about Christianity is a lot of Christians turn people away from Christianity because it can be so judgmental. It can be so much, oh, if you had sex before marriage, you're done. If you've done this or that, whatever it may be. And I'm like, that's not what God called us to do. No. And what I want people to know is that it's not like, oh, Julie, she's so religious now. No, I found...

And I developed and I have a personal relationship. Mm-hmm.

with Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. This is not, religion is about rules. This is not about rules. No, this isn't about religion. No, this isn't religion. This is about a personal relationship with God, which I think we all need. And I say it's about loving people and loving people well. And that's why I always sign off big brother, love one another. That really came out after the, after,

you know, after the pandemic, which was we need to see that there is so much more that unites us rather than divides us. If we just listen, listen to each other and stop judging. There's only one person who can judge.

Amen. Amen. That's what I tell people. And I love on Instagram, you see people that like post the most hateful things and it's like follower of Christ mother this. And I'm like, no, you are not. Yes. It's like, no, you were, you were either taught the wrong way. Like there, the pandemic closed a lot of churches. Not every church was preaching what Jesus preached. Yeah. Love unity, nonjudgmental peace, uh,

you know, all that. And anyone who calls themselves a Christian and who doesn't have Christ-like behavior, I have to pray for those people. That's what I say. When people become, say the most hurtful things, I've gotten to a place in my faith to where I think, wow, they must really be hurting. Yeah, exactly. And that's the best place to be is like, where is that coming from? Like, how can I pray for you?

And so where can everyone find your audio book?

that audio books are sold. It's called, but first God. And it's called that because I'm known on big brother for saying, but first, you know, but first in the big brother house. So this is, but first God. So everywhere that audio books are sold. And I can tell you guys, you will not regret it. I, it's now the most soothing thing. I'm like, can you come out with a new book like every other month so I can have something to listen to? Because it is the most soothing thing ever.

I've listened to. Thank you, Savannah. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. I'm like so excited about this episode. Should we end in prayer? Yes, go for it. Okay. You take us. Okay. Lord God, thank you so much for this time. Um, talking with Savannah, talking to any heart that is listening right now. We just pray that, um,

People get to know you better as a result of what they've heard, that they know it's never too late to start a personal relationship with you, that you are the Prince of Peace, a wonderful counselor. You will deliver all of us from anything and everything, but we have to open the door to you to let you in.

So Lord God, I just thank you for this platform. And I pray that you are always the loudest voice in all of our heads and that you open our hearts to you to mirror your heart. And may we walk in your will and not our own and do so gracefully, gratefully, and joyfully. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Savannah. Oh, that's just me. Perez Hilton.

Drinking all the tea that goes on in this world. And with the way social media is, I just can't get enough. I'm obsessed. It's like every day something new and scandalous comes out and I want it all. I'm the OG of entertainment gossip. And if you are like me and have an unrelenting thirst for all the drama that's flying around, you should listen to my podcast. The Perez Hilton Podcast. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Empathy is our best policy.

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