Rejection Is Protection (feat. Shaylen) 54:21

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Welcome back to Unlocked, guys. I'm super excited for today because I have Shaylynn on. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So for those that don't know, I mean, she's pretty much like a badass musician, artist, all the above. I

I'm obsessed because I actually okay your song what if I don't yes my favorite like absolutely amazing so relatable thank you my ex-fiance and I so we got engaged after a year of dating okay and then we called it off kept dating for three years after oh interesting very interesting don't know how that happened how it worked okay but it did until it didn't any longer yep and

I think when like finally we called things off, I was like, you know what? Because we did this whole toxic back and forth. As we all do. Date, break up, date, break up, break up, don't date, but still either you're sleeping together

or it happens talking it happens whatever and I just remember playing on Spotify it's actually it was on the like I think it was like the new music Friday yes because I it's just an easy way for me to see like what was released that week which is why we love exactly and

your song came on and I just remember like crying in my car because I was like this is so relatable like ending a relationship with someone and wondering like knowing in that moment it's the right thing but then you're like what if I don't ever get over you it is honestly like that feeling and it's crazy because

Oh man, here we freaking go. Yeah, that feeling has lasted with me for over a year. Like I still to this day, because my ex and I,

We got together during COVID and it was like a COVID relationship that was you're all in, you're freaking like. Well, all you have is each other. You only have each other. It was also like, I was my best friend. And there were a lot of red flags in the beginning that I just like how it started. Like I was like, there wasn't any pursuing. It was more just like right all in. You know what I mean? And I like now looking back at it,

And like, I love him outside of it. Like, but in the relationship, it just got to be, it was at the end of it. It was, it was not great. We'll just leave it at that. And there were things that I found out and stuff. And I was like, oh my God. But there was never any closure. Like there was zero closure. Cause when we split up, like,

It was months of like, you need to go like do your thing. You need to focus on this. I need to focus on that and we'll get back together. We're going to get married. That never works. I'm like, first of all, don't put out the marriage card because like I'm like, really? Like, I love you so much. Yeah. And then like, don't. That's the toxic though. That's the.

People do that so that you don't move on. It's messed up. Like it is messed up. And that was like, I remember like the whole time, like even when we were writing it, I just remember like the feelings of like,

it's like you wake up and instantly you think of that person you're like what are they doing today I can't text them I still love them like am I ever gonna feel this way and you forget that you are the reason like it's not that person that like you think like I'm never gonna love this heart again I'm like no you had the capacity to love that hard like and you will again for the right person but you forget it it all goes out the door because you think it has to do with them and I'm like no bitch like you can love that heart again like

I just now I'm like we're just coming out of the funk Because like for the last year Then he got a new girlfriend in the middle of it And I was like uh what And are they still together They're together Oh really Yeah it's an interesting thing But you know what maybe do y'all still talk No now we don't We did up until like

Like up until the first photo got posted. I OK, listen, when I tell you, I begged this man for just like I was like, I don't understand why, like we can't post each other. Like I was the idiot that was like he's like it's for work, all this stuff like now. And now like there's hard posts of them like on his page. I'm like.

Like she should thank me because that's a very hard pill to swallow. It's the worst. Especially because I will say I'm not saying this to be like have an ego or be full of myself. I've done a lot of humbling the past year in my life falling apart. But I have never really been in a relationship that I didn't make the final decision on. Okay. That like I...

If I... We broke up, it's because I wanted to break up. Yep. Like, or if things didn't work, it's because I wanted it to not work. Yep. I have had a situation to where I didn't... It wasn't my say. Oh, no. To where it was like a very humbling, like, literally this... Even two. If y'all just knew this person, like, let's just say they outkicked their coverage. Oh, love that. Love that for them. To them, they didn't think they did. And so...

It was just a really hard thing, too, especially when you love someone. And, like, you love someone so purely and innocently, and you would do anything for them. And then they end up with someone who's, like, with them for their money that doesn't take your mom to lunch, doesn't take your mom to doctor's appointments, doesn't, like... Doesn't go hang with their grandma. Literally. What...

So it... Wait, it actually wasn't me. You just wanted to be used. You don't want to be loved. It's crazy. And that's a them thing. And you can't... I'm like, that's a you thing. And like, granted...

Like she's beautiful. Like, I don't know her. So I'm not going to like, I don't know her, but like, she's this beautiful girl. And I'm just like, it's fine. It's cool. Whatever. I know, honestly, like you kind of hope like, you're just like, please, but no, this girl's beautiful. And I'm just like, I had to mute him for a while. Cause I was like, I can't look at this. This is torture.

Why would I do this to myself? - But also too, I think you have to look at a situation like that and you're like, you know what? You did us both a favor. - 100%. - Because if we were meant to be, we would be. And you don't want someone that loves you half ass. - No, and I don't want somebody that can't communicate. My God.

Oh, dear Lord. You know what I mean? We're living the same life. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm over like words is my job. I put them into songs. Yeah. So I'm like, tell me everything. Love me. I'm words of affirmation all day. Yeah. He was not. And that's the thing is I have realized like into the older I get, obviously we all look at someone and we're like, oh God, they're so hot. I'm so attracted to them. This, that, and the other. But I have seriously gone so like, it's a much deeper thing for me because I'm like,

I don't need you to have six pack abs. I don't need you to like be a gym rat. I need to emotionally connect with you. Yes. And if you're willing to communicate, I'm like, that turns me on more than any like washboard ab any day. Literally. I'm like, you could have like the weirdest feet. You could have weird nipples. I don't know. But like, I'm just like, just communicate with me any day of the week. Exactly. Because you think like,

20 years down the road, looks fade. We may not be as attractive as we are today. - Girl. - So. - Like I'm gonna eat some cookies, I'm gonna like all things. - Yeah, so it's like you need to be able to have tough conversations. - Yeah.

And that's lacking in today's day and age. - Well, because also like, we're just like this the whole time. Nobody wants to like, like the pursuing aspect of dating has gone out the door. - It has. - You send a DM, if like they reply in this many hours, then like, okay, let's do this. And there's no like courting anymore. - No. - And it is so frustrating 'cause it's like, you kind of like,

you fall into it as well because you're like, well, I guess I got to just find the one that does it like kind of half-assed. And you end up like, you're like, no, I deserve to be taken to dinners. I deserve to be talked to. Exactly. To figure it out. And like, I think all of us have forgotten how to do that in all areas of life. Well, I will say like, I went out on a date and this guy was like, all right, I'll be there to pick you up at seven o'clock. And like,

comes with a driver black car like picks me up takes me to dinner and i was like that guy where are they at i'm like let's meet at red door i'm like no i'm not meeting you at freaking red door like take me to a nice dinner love this was he well he was like meh yeah no great okay great and i'm like okay so it still exists it exists they're out there it just takes

Some weeding through a lot of bad ones. So many weeds. Yeah. So many weeds. So many. But they are there. They're there. It's just a little less and less these days. Yeah, a little less and less. And it is hard, too, to, like, in the spot that you're at, of, like, still kind of coming out of that. Like, what if I don't ever find...

what I thought I had with you or what if I don't like I'm not able to love like I loved you or and that was like the first person that I truly because I've like obviously the end goal is like marriage babies but like I had never really felt that way with anybody as far as like oh my god I could actually see a future with you yeah um and once I got a taste of that I think I was so hyper focused on like

the end goal that I forgot, like everything that matters leading up to that is just as important if not more. I just saw like, 'cause even like him just saying like, we're gonna get married. Like that to me, I was like, oh my God. And I latched on and it was like, I forgot, like I ignored everything else. And so I think because I let myself go there with somebody, I was so crushed about that. That was what I was holding onto.

And now like that I'm coming out of it, I'm just like, oh my God, thank you God. Because I actually like, if I would have ended up with that person, it would have probably been really bad. Yeah. It would have probably been really bad. And he takes away people for a reason. It's just, you know. People in your life for a season and a reason. And you have to accept it because when you keep pulling them back, pulling them back. Yeah.

It just, you delay your growth process. Rejection is protection is what I like to say. Oh, I love that. Rejection is protection in all areas of life. That is so true. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That is so true. Yeah. Because I guess at this point, I'd be getting cheated on left and right from an NBA player. So I guess we're good. No. I guess we're good. We're good. We're good.

good. Oh, those NBA players. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So what if I don't? Obviously, like my favorite song. Thank you. So therapeutic, y'all. You have to listen to it because everyone will relate in some way, shape or form. I hope so. That's what I just put my heart into it. And yeah, it seems to be like there's a girl that was like they did like a reaction video and she's screaming it in her car, like crying. And I'm just like,

Oh shit. Like that's crazy. Cause that's where I was. I was like, Oh God. So that's a, yeah, it's pretty crazy when people relate to it on the level that, yeah. Where I was when I wrote it. For sure. So what do you, what do you have coming up? You've got new music. You've got music, um, some shows coming up. Um,

- I wanna come, where? - Oh my God, I have one in like Idaho. I have one, I'm gonna have a bunch in Nashville, so I'm gonna announce them pretty soon. - Okay, I'll be there. - Let's put it okay. - Y'all come hang out with us, it'll be a blast. - It's gonna be great. Yeah, and then hopefully by the end of the year, put out my first album ever. - That's amazing. - In the entire like years of doing this, and I've only put out like EPs or singles, and I've never put out an album.

- But you also kind of are in such a huge transition phase right now. - Crazy. - Because you did pop music. - Yes. - Lived in California. - Yes. - Grew up in Dallas. - Yes. - But lived in California recently, right? - Correct, yep. I was born in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I claim both Tennessee and Texas. So grew up there.

Grew up there And then part time In Dallas And then I got Into a pop group When I was like 11 And it was like A Christian pop group At first And then later on We got signed To Young Money Cash Money And it didn't Make any sense That makes no sense Whatsoever They were like We're gonna do The Cash Money side As like our first Pop group And that was a disaster But yeah I ran off to LA When I was 17 And my parents Wow Yeah dumb Stupid A lot of life That I have lived In the last 10 years I was like If I could go back

- If you go back and do a different, maybe you would've waited 'til like 21. - Yeah. - 'Cause LA as a 17 year old is nuts. - It's so dangerous, like physically, morally. - It's crazy. - Yeah. - It's crazy. And also that like era of music was, that was a whole other thing. - Yeah. - I remember like the first Grammy party at Cash Money I went to and like, it was the first time I'd seen cocaine in real life. Like I was like, is that powdered sugar? Like what is that? - What is that?

Like, what is that? And then I realized, like, it's just, that's normal. It's normal. Like, people don't even think twice. Yeah. Which is sad because, like, I pride myself still to this day. I have yet to ever witness what cocaine looks like. Like, literally, I would be like, what is, I would probably have the same reaction. Literally. Wait, no. It's crazy. Like, I truly, I was like, and then I just, I think I remember seeing the movie Blow. And I was like, oh. Oh.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But it's like a little naive kid. It was just a wild, like it was, it was wild. And like, there was like, I just remember going to Miami. That was my first strip club experience. I was just like, this is crazy. That's insane. At Leidos, a brilliant mind is smart, but a brilliant team is smarter.

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- I will say that yes, that city will-- - Chew you up, spit you out. - It will. - Yeah. - And there was a point in my life where I think music, like it was always like juggling the two, trying to figure out who I was, trying to figure out like, 'cause when I did get off the label and started doing like my solo stuff,

Then you just like enter this world of you go to these parties. You're seeing things that like majority of the people, like majority of people will never see these things or experience these things that you think are like, you don't actually think are real until you're in them. And you're like, wait a second. What? Like at Coachella, Leonardo DiCaprio right there. And it's like nothing real.

Like, it's just nothing. It's like that's just normal life where you go to the grocery store and somebody crazy is there. Yeah. So you're at these like parties and then seeing people willing to do things for their career. And you're like, you know what I mean? That's the hard part, too. And especially that is a good segue into that.

The difference in men and women in the music industry as a whole. Yes. It's a huge difference. Yeah. It's a huge difference. It's a huge... As far as like the experience goes in general, the things that I was faced with majority of... And still up to this day, like there are things you're faced with with men in power that are shocking to me. Because I... When I tell you like...

very young me being faced with some of these things like men saying certain things that you're like, I really just thought that's happened in the movies and it doesn't. Yeah. It does not. Um,

and they could be married, they could be not. And you're just sitting there in that moment being that young with no tools before that to know what you would do in this moment. - And you just had a dream. - All you do is have an innocent dream. All I wanna do is sing, make people happy, relate to people, meet them because they bonded over three minutes of my journal that I gave them. It's so pure at first and then you get out there and realize how much

comes along with that dream. And it is wild because when you are put in the positions, like there are some things that I've done that I'm like, I never thought I'd do that. I never thought I'd do that. And there's some things that I have shut down that I, it was the scariest, hardest thing because I'm like, oh my God, no one's going to work with me. They're going to blacklist me because I like, I said no to this person. Which is so sad. It's so like,

because I'm just like, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, I know that my fellow male, like a majority of men in the music industry do not have to worry about that. No, the majority of men in the music industry aren't worried about someone

you know, wanting to sleep with them in order to, you know, get a song played or to write a song or to produce a song or to get a show. It's crazy. Trust me. I know. I know of one person in particular and I'm like, oh, so if this person has to do this, this and this, you're not going to play their songs on radio. Makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah. And I just and even like artists that like I want to work with and stuff and it's

It's just so frustrating because I, you're not looked at as like, like you're not looked at as being taken serious at first. I think that's, I think that's what's the most frustrating is that

I this is what I do for a living. I stand by the fact that no, I wasn't great when I first wrote songs, but I worked my ass off to become very good at it. And it's I want you to take me serious instead of just seeing me as like a face. Yeah. And that I think across the board, I think every female in this industry has to deal with that. We see it a lot in the music industry because we're here in Nashville. But I also feel like women as a whole are

really every day and i'm not here to preach this whole inequality thing this that and the other no no but it's so true that in a lot of fields women have to work twice as hard to prove that hey i have a seat at the table i am knowledgeable about what i'm speaking about all these different things and you just have to work harder and it's i'm also finding out too it's like

The things you do that are talked about after the fact of like... I'm like, wait a second. If you...

- If you put him and I, and we did the exact same thing, like say you go out to a bar and you talk to this person and you make out with them, like that, I will be talked about. - You're a whore because you did that. - Thousand percent. - He's cool. - And it's so stupid. I'm like, even though we say that it is equal and that like women can do whatever they want, no. - No. - No. - No, not at all. There's a double standard. I've always said that and too, 'cause I have

brothers. So I'm like, oh, so it's cool for them to go out here and sleep with God only knows how many people. But if I go out here and sleep with someone, I'm a whore. Like, and I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. And yes, I get it. Like there are standards for men and women for them. Like, but at the same time, I'm like, my job shouldn't be affected just because of somebody that I had relationships with. Like,

Oh my gosh. I know a girl in country music that hers was like drastically affected by that. And I do think it's

Yeah, it's insane because like you should know person, male or female, should use their position of power to intimidate or... No. To ruin someone's livelihood because guess what? You dated someone. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. Like move on. Be happy. Be happy in your marriage that you're in now. It's crazy. Stop ruining people's lives just because something happened that you didn't like. And that's like...

I'm sorry, but every human on this planet has done something or been a part of something that they're like, man, I didn't know any better at that time. That's a different version of me. And now I've evolved into a... Every day you should be evolving. If you're not, I'm concerned. But every day you should be evolving. And if you hold on to a chapter of my life from five years ago...

I'm sorry for you because I have changed and learned from it. Like, give me a chance. Give me a chance. That will say that's so hard because I guess now that you say that, it's like I'm guilty of that. Oh, my God. Everybody is. Yeah. And it's just like, OK, just because you cheated on me doesn't necessarily mean maybe you're cheating on your spouse. No. You know, I hope not. Maybe you've changed. I don't know. Let's hope. Yeah, let's hope. But that is true. Like, you have to give people confidence.

you gotta give people a chance. 100%. And it's like, I read a quote and it was like talking about being in relationship with someone. It's like being in a relationship with someone is bearing like a thousand versions of them. Yes. That's so true. You're becoming, like you're a new person every single day. Every day. I wake up some days and I'm like,

I don't even know who I am today. Do I want to dress like I do rock and roll? Do I want to be sad today? Like every day I'm different and I'm like an emotional crazy person. Yeah. But I'm also like, I'm aware of it. And I just, whatever I feel that day, I lean into it. And that like,

But that could be the start of like somebody that like I could find out a part of me that day that now I'm like, oh my God, wait, I need to fix this. Yeah. And that, but it took me a while to get there. And it's just, I feel bad for people that listen,

Don't forgive somebody 10 times for doing like the same thing over and over. No, that just that just means you're kind of stupid. You know, like we're going to just and also I can tell I have a pretty good sense now of like I'm like, OK, at your core, you're just not a person for me. Like, yeah, you're there's something your energy is off that I'm like, I'm going to stay away from you.

But for the most part, I'm really patient with people because I have been. You've needed that patience at some point. My God, I had 20,000 different versions of me in LA. Like you can see it too in photos. Like I'm like, there's, I'm like, you look lost and very little clothing on. Like my family and I would fight. They were like, can you put some clothes on and stop saying the F word? And I'm like, no. And now I'm like, oh my God, my titties are out. I gotta hide them. But five,

Five years ago, I'm like, it's a titty. So it's just like,

the thing you know so i'm like but if you hold on to that version of me i'm so sorry because you didn't know any better now she's like and like you said when you're surrounded by people and you're surrounded you yourself have seen i know girls in the music industry that like i know things that they have done to get to where they need to get to and it's so sad because you see all these people getting successful by doing these things you're like okay what do i have to do yeah like at this point like do i

"Maybe I need to do this or that." And you're so conflicted and you completely lose who you are. - Yeah, it's, man, I was in a situation like that for a very long time in my career and I couldn't even see that that was what was going on. And now taking a step out of everything, I'm just like, "Oh my God, I fell into something that I had no idea was even happening." And it was a position of power. I was so scared to part ways.

I was terrified. I was terrified that no one would touch you again. It was crazy. And I now looking back at it, I just have to be super compassionate with that. Like that little me didn't know any better. And it's just, but you do, you find yourself like I would do. And I used to, I used to be the girl that was like, I would never do any of that to get to like, I'm better than that. No, no. Everybody has done something to get better.

You know, like, so when you do fall into it, like you just have to be compassionate with yourself because it's just, you have to forgive yourself because if you don't, then you just lay down a dark hole of depression and anger and all these things. And it's just like, you know what? I'm not that person anymore. No, I've learned from it. And I've always said, like, I used to say, oh, I don't believe in people saying they don't have regrets. Like in a way. Now there are some things I'm like, okay, probably shouldn't have done, but then you

then you also I'm like I regret my balloon tattoo but then you also get to a point where you're like well you know what if I wouldn't have made those decisions it wouldn't have led me to where I am no like I am so excited that I made some of the worst decisions in my life yeah because you know you're not gonna do it now no but it led me to like I don't think I would be in Nashville and doing what I'm doing if it weren't for some of those decisions yeah because at the end of the day what's yours will be yours it's that's that's what my dad literally has always said he's like

Why do you want something that's not yours? It's crazy. When it comes to for artists, like a CMA, a Grammy, whatever. Like if you don't win it, why are you going to get upset? Because it wasn't yours to win. No. That's someone else's win for right now. For right now. It could be. And like everybody forgets, especially social media. Like it's so hard to get not get caught up in timelines, like watching people. And I.

It's so funny because like even the situation I'm in now, if I would have done it a year before that, I wouldn't have met the people that I met. I wouldn't have probably made what if I don't. I wouldn't have been in that relationship to make one if I don't like I wouldn't. And I wouldn't. It's just wild to me now taking a step back. I realize I just am letting life happen to me rather than trying to freaking control it because you just can't.

That is awesome. It's like it's the best feeling I've ever felt because I'm just like, oh, my God, like I at the end of the day, God is he is doing the whole thing. Not me. Not that is awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. And took a long time. We have to also not be so jaded and because it's so easy now. So like, OK, women have it so bad. Everyone's shitty. Like you're not going to give me the time of day, whatever. And I can't.

I'm a firm, I've myself have been in situations where I'm like, this sucks. Yeah. But then you like come across people and they give you hope. Oh my God. Like there's great people out there. There's majority of like now my team like is men that are great men. Like they are like my dad's like my brother. Like there are,

amazing men in this industry but it's majority of them are pretty pretty shitty yeah for the most part you just have to like dating you gotta weed them out you gotta weed them out looks like we were just talking before we came on here I had mentioned how Nate Smith had come on my podcast great his story is just absolutely amazing and that was like an 11 year span of when he first came to Nashville until like now when he's made it

And he and I were having a conversation the other day and he was talking about music videos and getting, you know, all these different storylines stuff. And, you know, you get them from like 10 different producers or whatever. And there was one and he was like, I really want to use this because this is the only woman in this whole list. That's so fire. Yeah. He was like this.

only woman in this whole list of people. And I was like, I have so much respect for you so much, like, because that's what we need. Yeah. We need men who are not

concerned about women taking their spot. - Yeah, which is wild to me. It's a weird concept to me. - It is. - 'Cause I'm just like, women are already like, women battling women, which makes me so frustrated too. 'Cause I'm like, girls, we all feel the same. Like, why are we doing this to each other? Like we literally, but like society has pitted us against each other to be like, there can only be one. - Yeah. - I'm like, no, there's room for everybody if you work your ass off. - Yeah. - There is. And there's room for everybody if you're just nice.

That's the thing. It's just like, we need more nice people. - And we all feel the same way. Like we all are like, nobody's nice. Nobody's like, and I'm just like, wait, if we feel this way, why are we doing exactly what we're complaining about? - That's true. - It doesn't make any sense to me. Like that's why I would think like I will support women until the end of time. Like I will not be weird about like,

like sharing your stuff or helping you like no that's because i'm like i would i would have died to have somebody help me do that well my favorite i kind of encountered that when i came out with my cosmetic line so i've got a cosmetic line called sassy love this sassy by savannah okay and so i came out with it and i never once asked anyone to boast about it ever because i'm not that type of person i just sent them the product

and so it's like i'm just gonna send it to you you do whatever you feel you want to do with it yeah and it told me so much about the people yep like and who they were based off the people that posted and the ones who didn't because i was like you secretly don't want me to win which is why you didn't post it it's a weird thing yes it's people are funny like that i'm just like i don't

really, I don't get that mentality. - Yeah, and then again, I will say, like, I guess I went through a really insecure phase to where maybe, I think I was guilty of maybe not posting some stuff for people because maybe it was a female that was really attractive and I was super insecure about my relationship that my boyfriend was gonna see it and go after that person. - Yep, and you're like, what are the circumstances that that person, like, there are so many different, like, I have been there too. I'm like, this girl

But then I'm also, now I'm at it. Like I said, different chapter of me that wasn't super like now I'm just like, yeah, she's hot. Like, I want to, I gladly, like I think females are a hundred percent the hottest things in the world. I'm like, I'm like booties, titty, that's great. Like,

we love that like they should be appreciated but at the time i was like insecure about my own yeah i was most of the time it comes from men being like like you it's an insecurity that's yeah well i remember i was in a relationship with someone and they were like yeah you should definitely do more squats like you should you know did he have a fat ass

- Kinda. - Damn it, I was gonna say. - I know! - I was like, if he had a pancake, tell him to get into the gym. - Yeah. - But even still,

F you. Yeah. And I was like, and so from that point forward, like it's always made me so calm, like insecure. I was like, your butt looks great. When I walked in, I was like, ma'am, what are the workouts? I love you. So it's like stuff like that. People don't realize what a long lasting effect that can make. Forever. Yeah. Cause that's like, I, it was crazy right before, um,

Right before I, basically like the rock bottom that I had hit in LA and like doing pop music. And I, there were people in my life that were like, they had me in a plastic surgeon's office to get a consultation to get my body done. Because they were like, if we do this and we shave your head and do something drastic, I think your music will work. And I'm sitting there like,

What? Like if that's what happened. And I was so at rock bottom that I went to the consultation. Like you were willing to do it. I was willing to do it until I like, then thank God COVID happened because it was right before COVID. And I just remember taking a step back and taking a break from everything and realizing if my music isn't going to work just as it is, and I have to go change my body and change the way I look for it to work, then this isn't, this isn't what I need to do.

And then it wasn't supposed to work. - Yeah. - And I'm so glad, there was just so many times in, and you can even see it in the way I dressed and the way I did my makeup, everything about it, it was never really me. I had this person that was always just like, "We have to redo the songs. We have to make you look as edgy as possible." 'Cause it was more about the character than the music. - Yeah.

And at the at the core of my being, I am a Southern girl. I love to write songs and I love to sing them. And if people want to listen, great. And if not, like I know my mom will accumulate 10,000 of those dreams like Peggy Sue is majority of those dreams. But when I just went back to who I was, it worked.

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moved to Nashville and kind of switched your whole, started really finding who you were. It was crazy because last summer, so last summer I was just coming out here to write for other people at first because that team was also like, you're, you just need to focus on being a writer. The artist thing isn't going to work. And I'm like, okay. Like I was so desperate that I was like, maybe, maybe that is what I have to do. And I was so sad because it was like, I,

I write for the people and I have no problem giving songs away if I need to be a vessel for somebody else. - Yeah. - But there are some- - And sometimes it doesn't work for you, but it like- - But 100%, I'm like, please take it. Like I'll write another one. But there are some songs that I'm just like, no, this is my story to tell. Like this is, I gotta keep it safe.

and I had come out to Nashville last May and the first song I wrote at 9 a.m. in the morning because I'd never done a 9 a.m. session because LA that's just crazy yeah that's insane you've lost your mind and I just remember writing what if I don't with Seth Ennis Phil Barton and Lindsay Rimes and I remember leaving Lindsay do you know Lindsay he's uh it's the guy right Lindsay Rimes yeah yeah he's Australian just

Okay. So I was just with Lindsay this past weekend. He's the, he produced what if I don't. And he wrote whiskey on you with, or produced it with Nate. Yes. He's the best guy of all time. Like him and his wife.

I love them so much. That was my first session here ever. - That was a good session. - Freaking great. Because this guy, Ilya Tashinsky had like, he pulled out his Rolodex was like, I really believe that, 'cause he was, I like demoed a few things before that. And he came in the room, he was like, yeah, you're nuts if you don't do this. Like you need to get to Nashville because I wanna do your project. And I was, so then he booked all these sessions and that was my first right. And I just remember leaving that right.

I sobbed because it was like the first time in years that I felt love for it again, that I felt like I was just singing my story. And that I just, I was like, I fell out of love with it for sure. Like I completely fell out of love with music for the first time in my life.

And I remember leaving that session and I just, I was like, oh, okay. I'm going to have to go through the ringer to get out of everything that I'm in in LA, but I'm going to have to do it. Yeah. And it was the scariest thing for me to do. But I just remember I went back after that week because I wrote majority of my, like the songs that I'm putting out in that week. And I just remember,

I, Universal was great. We parted ways. And then I parted ways with that management. And I, the last like year was waiting to get off my lease. I was also like, maybe I have a place in LA. Maybe I have one here. Cause I was so scared. And I also didn't. Cause you were so scared to completely end that journey. And like my relationship, cause he was still like, we're going to get back together. So I was like, oh, I'm going to stay here. And thank God I didn't. But I just remember thinking like,

I can't go there. Like, I know nobody. I'm scared. And my lease was up right when I released What If I Don't. And when I tell you the first time releasing anything independent in my entire career. And it did numbers and got more, like, it was for once more than my mom listening. And I was like, okay, God, cool. I guess I can't be one foot in, one foot out. So August, I packed up my bags and I moved. Holy cow. Yeah. Yeah.

See, and that's amazing because I say like God provides like. It's crazy. Just in the nick of time sometimes. It's crazy. Because in a way for me, it was like, okay, when the show ended, my podcast like took up, like my podcast started and completely took off. Yep. And it's been such a huge success. And I was like, you know what? That's God providing like when one door closes, another one opens. And it is so true. That's amazing. Oh, I cannot believe you wrote that with Lindsay. I love him so much. Oh my gosh.

- Oh my gosh. - I love it. We also have this other song that we did that's, it'll come out this summer and I just, I like wanna put him in my pocket. I just like love him so much. - That's amazing. - He's a good guy. He's so talented. - I love that. - So talented. - So, wow. - Yeah. - That's a story. - It's a story. If you only knew the nine years leading up in LA to like get to this point, just.

- But doesn't it feel so refreshing? Like it just truly feels like a new version, like finally you. - And like everything that I'm doing, like down to the photos, down to the styling, like is just me. And then I have like the exact people I wanna work with for my photos and videos for like, like there is nobody ripping apart my songs when I turn them in, like they stay exactly as they are. And

That's so beautiful to me because at by the time I would put anything out in the pop world, I hated the song because it wasn't what you create. No, I was like, this has been ripped like two shreds and I just everything nothing ever like I was like, if I don't believe in this, how could anybody else at that point? So it was like

- Yeah, I went through the ringer in LA. The labels dropped, homeless, in my car with my dog. It was just all the things leading up to this moment. And every day I'm kind of like one eye open. 'Cause I'm like, is this really happening? Is this like, what's going on? Like even to be sitting right here with you over a song, that's the coolest thing to me.

Which thank you, by the way. I love that. No, I love like and I've always said for me, like music has been my therapy because I've gone through so much crap in my life that like no one knows about. And music was the only thing

That would like shut the thoughts off or make my thoughts feel like normal and like I wasn't crazy. Yeah. You know, and like you hear songs and you relate to it and you're like, okay, it's not just me. Yeah. Like there's other people that feel this way too. It's okay. It's, it's just part of the process. It's part of the journey. It's crazy. And I think like, that's like, I think the biggest compliment somebody like had put on there was just like, you put exactly how I'm feeling into words. And I was like,

Whoa, that is crazy. Because I think that's, when we did write it, I was just like, I think this is everything I could possibly, if I had to send this person a letter right now, I would send them this. Yeah. And it's exactly like what I wanted to say. And who knew being sad would make you money? Hey, it does. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, if you're, I was like, at least if I'm going to be sad, I should profit off of it. Honestly, the first.

the first time I've ever like made like a good check off my own money was yesterday or my own songs and I was like wait a second this is cool this is great I was breaking but it's fine it's fine it's fine I can now like go buy whatever I want it's fine not quite I'm like at least I can buy food for the week which is great that's amazing no like and it's just sometimes like

The rebuilding process is such a beautiful thing and something to be so grateful for. It's so much fun. Because it teaches you to like the strength that you have and what you can do. Oh, it's like because you look back at like there are times that I was like, I'm not getting out of bed today. I might not even like make it past today. Like there are a few times that that happened.

at rock bottom and it's just like you look back and you're like, wow, I did that. If I could survive some of those things, I can survive a person. Yeah. You know? That is so true. And too, I think it's something too for us all to remember is like nothing is ever that bad. Like why choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem? It's crazy. That's why I have temporary feelings on me. No way. Yeah.

that is so cool because it is all temporary we just forget it yeah it's like when you're in high school and you you break up and like or like girls are mean you're like it's the end of the world yeah like it's not it's really not but it feels like it if i and it's so funny the human experience in general is like why do we forget that it's like in six months we're gonna be fine yeah exactly or like when something huge is on the headlines it's like hey something's gonna be bigger tomorrow yeah calm

down 100% yeah I like I can't even imagine I can't even imagine wow okay so now what if I don't has become like a huge thing I will be shocked if a lot of you haven't heard it because it's amazing

Now you've got an album coming out at the end of the year? Yeah. Okay. And so up until then, are you going to release any singles? Definitely. I just put a new single out. And what's that called? It's called Do It Right the First Time. Oh, and what is that about? So the breakup that I went through, I went to my grandparents right after that because they're both 96. They've been married 75 years. Oh.

freaking the epitome of just like love like and my because I initially called my mom and was just like I don't understand like give me advice and she's like I'm really not the person clearly like your dad and I are not together and your brother's dad and I aren't together so why don't you ask your grandparents because they have clearly done something right and I she literally was like Shaylin I

I don't know if I'm the person, all I can tell you is like, try your best and like keep going for it. And I was like, you're right. So I flew to see them in South Carolina. - Where at? - Spartanburg.

way yeah I was born like right outside of Clemson were you really yeah that's amazing all my cousins went to Clemson really big Clemson yeah I was born right outside of Clemson okay yeah I don't know that yeah that's like where all my family's from South Carolina's the shit I know I love it I love real people real real people yeah I

And like, that's that's my like my aunt Deb. Everybody's still there. And I truly like I love it so much. So you went to your grandparents. I went and we talked and I was like, what is the key to this whole thing? Like, what are you guys? What what is it? And my Mimi truly was just like, you know, you got to laugh at everything because nothing is that serious. It's all temporary. And then my papa, he had said this phrase. He was like,

Try your best to like, it's when you're cutting the grass, when you're doing your laundry, like do it right the first time so you don't have to go do it again. Like, 'cause my parents, I remember when I was little, they were just like, go cut, or like not, my brother was cutting the grass, but my mom was like, go do your homework right. Like, don't half-ass this so that we're not gonna have this conversation again. - Yeah. - And just try to like give it your all on that first go.

And that was, it stuck with me because I was like, you know what? I did give it my all. There is not, I will say at the end of the day, I can sleep because I freaking went all in for that person. I gave everything and I loved harder than I could have ever loved. And I can walk away and fully be like, you know what? That's a you thing, not a me thing. And he was like, you gotta, no matter how bad you've been hurt, you gotta keep moving.

You gotta keep that in you. - You can't close yourself off. - You can't let that go, no. And it was crazy 'cause like I'd always had that like in the back of my head and I wrote it down in my notes afterwards. And almost a year later I got, it was just like this random session and Sean, one of the co-writers, he had said something very similar about his dad with cutting the grass and like, go do it right the first time so you don't have to do it again.

And I was like, oh my God, like, and the stars aligned. And we started writing. It was crazy. Yeah. We and then I posted a video because my brother then was visiting my papa, played him this song. He's very deaf and very blind, but you can like see him leaning in. And it went nuts on TikTok. And everybody was like, I want to use this as my wedding song. Fresh.

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The glad girl group coming at you with a throwback jam. That was glad force flex drawstring trash bags featuring Pine Sol original scent. And that's better than all good. It's all glad. It's like, great. You could do it for the wedding I never had. So like, dang it.

awesome because I didn't think about it being a wedding song considering it came from such a sad place of a breakup. And then all of a sudden Kelly Clarkson's team reached out and I just did the Kelly Clarkson show over it which was, I was pooping my pants a little bit because I was like, I love you so much. And you know that I exist so that's cool. And it's just been really, really freaking cool.

awesome. So what do you say because you did what your parents are divorced. Would you say that that has affected you relationally as like an adult and your relationships. Oh yes. Just considering how it went down I'm just like there was it was it was all the things. Yeah it was pretty much

'Cause as like, as females, like you hold your dad at this like pedestal. - Oh, 100%. - You know, and it just happened to be that there was like another party involved. - Yeah. - And all of a sudden my, and I was in the middle of like filming a TV show. I was going on my first tour with this pop group. We were getting signed. And I think at that time,

Because social media and all that wasn't really what it is now. So you had to be on all the time. I'm sure you know more than anybody. I'm sure you know that it's just like, oh. You don't get to have a bad day. No. And this was in the middle of...

I just couldn't fathom the fact that I was like, oh my God, like my parents aren't gonna be together anymore. - And you're not as perfect as I thought you were. - And we put parents on pedestals and now that I'm older, it's like- - They're human. - Like if I had a kid right now, my God, I'd be like, my dog looks at me and he's like, "Shit, not again, like not today." Or like I'll have like a guy

And he's like, "No mom, not again." I'm like, "You've had 10 dads in your lifespan and it's fine, it's cool." And he just looks at me judging me. I'm just like, "Don't look at me." So I couldn't even imagine having a kid. 'Cause it's just like, you realize as you get older, like my dad and I are great, I love my dad. But at that time I was so angry with him. Also Peggy Sue, my mom's the shit. Like I was just like, "How could you, Peggy Sue?" But they have their flaws and it didn't work out. And like, that's okay. Like my stepmom's awesome.

We're all cool now. Yeah. But it took a little bit and

And I but it was detrimental at that point for me. Yeah. And it was detrimental to my relationships after that because it was like I went for guys that didn't choose me. Yeah. And you were holding to other people accountable for someone else's actions. Hundred percent. And it's like I can't. That's the one thing is I when people hold on to stories in their life of like this happened to me. So I have to I have to treat you like this. And I'm like, you're going to hold on to that just because of what somebody else did to you. Yeah. Yeah.

take it learn from it and don't do that yeah like it's like it says in the bible like the sins of the father will father mother what will read i'm not sure i should i need to up my bible knowledge girl you're doing better than i am but it's just like you will it will continue on for generations if you don't fix it if you don't fix it if you don't confront it so it's like about having the tough conversations like why did you do this what were you feeling why did you

feel that that was the right move. Like I'm just now learning that literally a good friend of mine, Brittany Ruby, she's the CEO of Jeff Ruby Steakhouse. And she just told me that probably like a month ago in an event. And she was like, if you don't confront it,

it's going to continue on for generations and i was like oh right and so i'm like wow so it's like even small things it's like you have that's where the communication comes it's all communication at the end of the day yeah there's a thing that happened with my mom and i recently that like my mom's just such an awesome person but i saw like something in her childhood come up that i was like

No, this is a you thing, not a me thing. And even with my dad, like my parents, my dad was FBI. So it's like my dad. - I'm not gonna hold that against him. - Literally like I, when I tell you that when I confronted him, 'cause I went to him in 2019, 'cause I like, I had done something in a relationship that was very similar. And I was like, oh my God,

I just became the person that I was so angry with. Yeah. And I had to sit down with him and I was just like, why did you, why? Like, just humor me on the why. And he gave me such a like,

- It was such a military response because his whole life he's been in the Navy, then like, and he was an incredible undercover agent. Like he was incredible. - Yeah. - One of the best. And I realized, I was like, oh my God, this is just something that you don't know any better on how to like, you keep going. - Yeah. - You just like,

You're so conditioned. It's crazy. Like anything that could possibly set you off, you exit out and you keep going because he had to stay alive in his job. Like he literally, there were moments where he was doing such crazy cases that his end goal at the end of the day was to not get killed.

Oh, that's a crazy thing. Like I can't actually know what I'm like my life being. No. So, of course, I'm like when it comes to like real life things, like, of course, you're going to kind of be a little messed up with stuff like. Yeah. So I couldn't at that point. I was like, oh, my God, like that's your journey. And.

yeah it sucks i was affected by it but like i can't this had nothing to do with me yeah so i don't get to i don't get to carry that on yeah i just i get to now know why you're like this and i get to know that i'm not going to carry that into my own life yeah and understanding someone else's hardships it helps you to understand them my own and like yeah it's like a mirror you're being married with something yeah every person significant relationship you are being mirrored

That is so true. It's crazy. Wow. Well, I just want to say like, I love you as a person. Like y'all, this is the first time we've met. It is. I posted about our music. Like I love it. I've been low key obsessed, but like, I feel like I've known you forever. I know. Same. So now you don't get to be a stranger. Now we're like, we're hanging out.

We're definitely hanging out. But thank you so much. Honestly, I am so proud of like you, your music, the impact that it's had on me.

It's just absolutely amazing. It's been therapy for me. And I feel like this is just like the beginning of your story. So don't forget us little people whenever you become big and famous. Oh, ma'am. Excuse me. Don't forget us little people. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. Yay. That was so good. Yay! That was, you were freaking awesome.

I say, because if I do die, I'm going to ask the Lord, let me haunt you. We so often hear about those that don't make it out of danger alive. But what about those that do? My body got warm and it just said, get up. You're not done, get up. I'm Caitlin VanMol, back with a brand new season of I Survived. The more I begged him, the happier and the more excited he got. Join me for new episodes of I Survived every Monday and subscribe now wherever you listen to podcasts.

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