'Pull the other one!': Chris O'Keefe and minister for Local Government clash over council inquiry 07:19

Ron Honig, he's the New South Wales local government minister and he's on the line for us. Minister, thanks for your time. My pleasure, Chris. Now, with the greatest of respect, I've gone through this report and it does feel thin to me. I don't think so. I'm glad you've gone through the report because you also know that...

I've received a report with the investigators of the belief that the matters that they've identified require my urgent consideration. And they say the number and seriousness of the matters that they've found require a public inquiry. It's the only decision I've got to make, really. Yeah, sure, public inquiry, but the sacking of council or the suspending of the democratic right of the people of Liverpool? No.

Yeah, well, I don't favour that. I mean, I could have suspended them immediately. I had that power to do so. But I'm conscious of the fact that the mayor and councils are democratically elected. And I want to make sure that I gave them every opportunity to be heard as to why it's not in the public interest for them to be suspended during the course of the inquiry. I mean, there's no... So why threaten them with it then?

Because I'm not sure that they can remain in office whilst the course of the public inquiry. I don't think that you're really going to have a fair election during that process, but I'll wait to hear to see what they have to say. It feels to me like you've made your mind up.

No, well, I've given an intention. That's what I intend to do. But if I've made my mind up, I could have made that decision today when I called the public inquiry. I'm very conscious of the fact that they're democratically elected and that they should be heard on this question. But it's going to take, say, six weeks to set up an inquiry. And all this evidence is going to be occurring, what, in the middle of an election campaign when they're going to be allegations made against various mayors and councillors during an election. I can't do it all the time.

You don't sack a state government. Well, they might do it, but I've got to ensure that the election process and these unresolved matters are resolved by public inquiry. I think before, in all fairness, I mean, why should, for example, a councillor have a cloud over their head going into an election? And why should potential candidates use...

unproven allegations in a public inquiry in a local council election. Those are matters that I'm considering at the moment when I determine what's in the public interest. The other thing too, Chris, is there's some records gone missing in relation to various things and I've got to make sure I preserve the records. There's witnesses given public interest disclosures. I did read that.

But it looks to... There's no examples of what is actually... It says it's verbal evidence, and there's no examples of actually what has gone missing.

No, they haven't identified that in the report. I understand though that they were concerned in the interim report, which I intended to make public, that they were concerned about disclosing the name of potential people that may well have been involved in providing information and I understand why those people might need to be protected at this point in time. Oh, that's fine, Minister, but that's, you know, hold the public inquiry, hold a thousand on me if you want, but sacking a council?

stopping everybody who lives in the city of Liverpool from having the democratic right to vote who their representatives are? Well, I mean, at worst it's going to be delayed. It's not going to be permanent. Let's see what happens in the Commission of Inquiry and let's

see what the council put to us. I mean, Chris, you've read the report. You know, you start looking at the matters of concern from page 13 onwards. I mean, it is a bit hair-curling, even when you look at those reports. Hair-curling? A number of female staff members interviewed said selection decisions were made on the basis of gender and male colleagues were preferred for more senior roles. That's not hair-curling? Yeah.

Yeah, well, what about the frequent repetitive patterns of direct appointment of staff with leaks to fixed-term appointments in various council directorates? With political affiliations. Rather than the council undertaking competitive recruitment processes. Yeah, a bit like Josh Murray, Ron. A bit like Josh Murray. You guys did exactly the same thing. No, no, no, we didn't, Chris. Pull the other one, Minister. You're a fair dinkum bloke. Come on.

Look, you can't make... Listen, Chris, you can't make political appointments of the CEO... He donated to you blokes. ..director of city presentation, director of corporate services, two positions of senior advisor, senior officer government relations, communication leads, hospital delivery coordinator, senior planning advisory officer slash senior planner. Come on, Chris, give me a break. Is Michael Knight still working for you guys? Not talking about the... Michael Knight still working for you guys?

What's that? Michael Knight still working for you guys? Well, he doesn't work for me. No, he works for your government though, doesn't he? And just like a lot of these staff don't work for Ned Manoon, the mayor, because there's a difference, right? Look, at the end of the day, political affiliation doesn't disqualify you from serving an office. Then it shouldn't justify sacking the council. Hold the inquiry, see what comes, and then sack it.

Well, let's just wait and see what happens out of the public inquiry. And I'll give the council a week. But at the end of the day, you'd have to concede, Chris, there's some pretty worrying things in this interim report, isn't there? I mean, you just can't sort of dismiss them. You can't just sort of take one thing in isolation. If you look at it as a whole, there's pretty widespread concern about dysfunction operating at that council. Sure.

Well, I think all I'm saying, all I'm saying, I'm not saying hold the inquiry, go for your life. It deserves, it deserves a proper investigation of what has occurred here. But all I'll say is the consequence of sacking a democratically elected council and then suspending an election of that council that's due in September is well and truly over the top.

Well, that might be your view. I'll give it... I mean, I said I'm going to give it some thought over the next week or so, but at the end of the day, I mean, I do have to protect the citizens of Liverpool, the functionality of the council. And remember, I mean, there's also...

There's also an assertion of lack of statutory oversight of the governing body. So it's not as simple as just advocating a policy position that I'd agree to. Ron Honing, I appreciate your time, but I hate to say it, it looks a hell of a lot like a Labor state government trying to take out a Liberal local council. No, it's not that. And nobody in the local government sector would say I've done any political since I've

been the minister. You've done a good job. You've done a good job. And I agree with you. You absolutely need a public inquiry as a result of this report. But I reckon your intention to sack a council, that's got me beat. I appreciate you coming on regardless. Okay. Thanks, Chris. That's the Minister for Local Government, Ron Honig, 131873.