'You are lying': ACTU president taken to task over CFMEU thuggery 09:41

And the ACTU has suspended the CFMEU from its own membership. The president of the ACTU, the Australian Council of Trade Unions, is Michelle O'Neill, and she's on the line for us. Michelle, thank you for your time. Hi there, Chris. Why have you decided to take this action?

Well, our executive met today, Chris, and we called a special meeting because we were really concerned about the allegations against the CFMEU, particularly those about organised crime and criminal behaviour. And when the ACTU executive gets together, it's representatives of every union across the country. So it's unions that represent nurses and teachers and retail workers and hospitality workers and factory workers and miners. And we all came together

and we did a couple of things. We gave an opportunity for the CFME leadership to be heard by us about what they said, the actions they were taking in relation to their union. But then we considered what we should do as a union movement, and we made a few decisions. We'd already called for the union to stand down individuals that were subject to criminal allegations or other investigations. And

Today we also said that they should fully cooperate with the appointment of an independent and external administrator. So we asked them to support that and to cooperate with that. And we also, as you said, suspended them from the ACTU. It's all a bit late, isn't it?

Well, I don't think so because these information has come out in a pretty rapid way over the last three or four days. So you knew nothing about any of this? I knew nothing about any allegation in relation to criminal activity within the union. So you thought, as long as you've been in the union movement, you've just thought the CFMEU was squeaky clean, have you?

What I know is that like every organisation, there's very good people within the CFMEU and there's others that I think now the light's been shone on. And it's really important that we don't turn away from that, that we... You know, unions are about standing up for working people. We've got a job to do that's really...

really important about safety, about paying conditions. And we don't want to have a movement that is focused on anything other than that. So if people are using our movement for activity that's for their own profit or gain, then that's not okay. Michelle, Michelle, can you understand the frustration of Australians when people like yourself and Sally McManus and Tony Burke and everyone...

comes out and says, oh, shock horror. There's some potentially dodgy things happening with the CFMEU. In 2019, in the ABCC, Queensland boss Dave Hannity, he went to jail for two years for receiving $161,000 in home renovations from a developer. In 2022...

Four senior New South Wales officials from the CFMEU were fined a near record $1.2 million by the federal court for coercing a crane company into signing a union agreement. The CFMEU were fined $840,000 for threatening unlawful strikes at Brisbane construction sites. You've had people called scabs, dogs, women barked

and you're saying, oh, nothing to see here, this is all a surprise to us. All on the public record, this stuff. Yeah, what I'm saying and, you know, where you started there about that individual that went to jail, he should have gone to jail and there's, in fact, other reasons he went to jail for completely unacceptable behaviour. But there is a difference...

in terms of some of the other things you mentioned about industrial action and criminal behaviour are different things is what I'm going to say to you, Chris. You know, people being able to, you know, take strike action in terms of supporting a legitimate claim for their members is something that, you know, unions have done and it's why we all have things like

the weekend and public holidays. But there's a difference here when we're talking about allegations of organised crime and criminal behaviour, and that's where we are saying that cannot be. Okay. What about this one? The CFMU unlawfully entered a department site on the Gold Coast, physically blocked concrete trucks while calling a female safety advisor an effing dog C and barking like a dog at her in the federal court in 2019.

I cannot and would never support that sort of behaviour. We've got standards... But, Michelle, I'm sorry, there is a culpability within senior levels of the Labor movement that has allowed this stuff to go unfettered for years and years and years, and here we are. I don't accept that, Chris. What other proof can you offer me that you've tried to do something about it? Well, what I will say to you is that

you think about what the union movement does for working people and all of the things that are important in terms of workers' safety and pay and conditions. But also that there's a variety of industries and sectors. And what I know about the construction industry is that there's behaviour in that industry from employers as well as some elements of the union, which is why we're

that is completely unacceptable behaviour. Why did you then... You can't tar the whole movement with that. Why then did you want the ABCC, the Building and Construction Commission, dismantled? Because what that was about was about saying that there's one set of rules for workers in one industry and sector that is different to every other person in the country. And, you know, there should be laws and there should be rules that apply to everybody, but it's not fair to say...

that if you happen to be a worker and there's many, many thousands of individual good people working in the construction industry who do no wrong, just go to work every day and do a tough job, right? But the problem you've got is they had a 91% success rate. They had a 91% success rate.

in the federal and other courts, the ABCC. All of this came as a result... They were not dealing with any of this, Nate. They were not. They were dealing with minor issues about things like people shouldn't be allowed to wear helmets with union stickers on them. Like an $840,000... Hang on, that is a lie, Michelle. You are lying to the people here that are listening to my program. The ABCC had a 91% success rate in court...

And there was every single example that I just read out to you was as a result of their action. Now, I'm sorry, but you're saying that different rules are being applied to the construction industry and the CFMU to the rest of society. Well, guess what? Maybe there needs to be.

Let me just respond to you because I don't like being called a liar. Many of those prosecutions, not the ones you read out, but many of those prosecutions that you claimed as success rates were prosecutions for minor matters, things like flying a flag or wearing a stick on a helmet. That's ridiculous waste of taxpayers' money. It also is the case that there are prosecutions that were legitimate, you know, and I accept that.

but do not say that that was all about that sort of behaviour. And I don't accept that there should be one rule for one type of worker and another for another. What we should do is have strong and effective culture and obligations that apply about...

particularly those people that are elected or appointed to represent workers, about how we behave and how we do that. And that's what our decision today is about. We want a movement that does a great job for workers and we won't stand for people using it for their own personal gain.

Can you just give me two or three examples of what the ACTU has done and the Labor movement has done to curtail the behaviours alleged and proven over the past decade and a little bit more out of the CFMEU? Well, what I will tell you is that the decisions we make are ones that, firstly, it's a union movement. Just a couple of examples. Well, you've got to accept what I'm saying here, Chris, which is that the

the people that on a day-to-day basis represent workers in all different unions are elected by those members to represent them. So the ACTU doesn't operate as a body. It's a federation of all those unions coming together. And what we've said is today that we've suspended that union out as a construction part of ACTU. So the answer's nothing.

out of it. No, it's not out of it. Australians know it's nothing and you've just told us it's nothing so thank you for at least being honest. Can I ask the CFMEU Queensland branch, just quickly before I let you go. They've said they've come out pretty harsh on all this. Michael Ravbar

He says that these gutless Labor politicians talk tough. The CFMEU is an industrial union, not a political outfit. And Anthony Albanese has panicked and soiled himself over some unproven allegations in the media. And we will defend each other to the ends of the earth. What do you make of that?

Well, I think that's a very extreme statement. I think what we've done today is said, and we say this to the Queensland branch, we say it to the whole of the CFMEU construction division, the best thing that would be the interest of your members and your union would be to support the appointment of an external independent administrator to deal with all these allegations and make sure your union is clean.

Michelle O'Neill, I support unionism. I support collectivism. And I just think that the labour movement has let itself down in this situation and self-awareness and just putting your hand up and realising, you know what, we had a blind spot here is often a good way to go. But I really appreciate you coming on and fronting up. Thanks so much. No worries, Chris. Anytime. Thanks. Bye. That's Michelle O'Neill, the President of the Australian Council of Trade Unions.