Tony Abbott claims the United States of America has a problem with debate 08:07

Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, he joins me on the line with some of his insights on this. Mr Abbott, thank you for your time. Thank you, Chris. And yes, shocking events over the weekend in the United States, but we have to move on from them. Were you surprised, like many of us, that there was such a failure of the Secret Service and law enforcement to allow someone to get a shot off while Donald Trump was there campaigning?

Well, I think, Chris, you made two very good points. The first is that there does seem to have been a failure by the Secret Service because it seems that there were people in the crowd warning police and others that there was trouble brewing. They could see this guy on the roof, apparently armed. So, yes, there is some explanation for the Secret Service, but I think the more fundamental point is just

the combustible nature of political debate in the United States in particular. And the problem with debate so often today is that when people disagree, instead of putting it down to a simple difference of opinion, they tend to put it down to some kind of moral failure. So the people you disagree with aren't just wrong, they're bad. And

It's not as bad here in Australia, but we're suffering from elements of this moralisation and polarisation of debate. And yes, it's good that President Biden is now calling for calm. But I've got to say that his side has been just as culpable as the other side when it comes to demonising their opponents. Now,

At the end of the day, in a democracy, we have to accept the voter's verdict and we have to give the other side at least credit for being sincerely patriotic and wanting the best for the country. We can argue forever about whether their actual policies are good, bad or indifferent. But what we shouldn't do is...

demonise the individuals, play the man rather than the ball and pretend that there's no goodwill just because people happen to be on the other side. Is this a new phenomenon in your mind or has this been part and parcel of American politics for quite a while? Look, I don't claim to be the world's biggest and best student of American politics. I think they've always played their politics pretty hard

Yeah, 1880s. I think it was the Grover Cleveland presidential election and it was two guys, James G. Blaine and Grover Cleveland and I think one side said...

James, James, James G. Blaine, monumental liar from the state of Maine. And then the other side said, Grover, mum, mum, where's my pa? Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha. So I guess by the standards of the 1880s, that was pretty personal and pretty low. So I suppose there's been a lot of invective of the sort you wouldn't normally expect in an Australian election.

in American elections over the years. But, but I do think that the polarisation, particularly the demonisation of President Trump, has gone way beyond anything we've ever seen before. I mean, some of the social media posts by Democrats, including the President himself, have been right over the top. And let's hope that...

Everyone now takes the President's advice and they do calm it right down and they do attribute at least goodwill to people on the other side. Do you think that this moralisation, polarisation is born out of the fact that, you know, while they're on different sides of the fence now, there was a civil war at one point and these values were fought over, citizen v citizen? Yeah, but that was about slavery and you can understand why

that particular issue aroused incredibly strong passions. On the one hand, there were the, I think, righteous moral passions of the North, and on the other hand, the mercantile and self-interested passions of the South. I don't think there's anything like the same objective seriousness in some of the current debates. I mean,

whether you think climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time or not, whether you think that January the 6th was a riot or an insurrection, I just don't think these are quite on the same level of those days. And that's why I think it is possible for the temperature to be low and I think it's possible for people to cool it if they've got sufficient character and

That's the real test. Do the senior people in the United States polity at this time have sufficient character, in the end sufficient magnanimity, to turn the temperature down and treat each other as decent human beings, even if they happen to disagree about politics? What's your assessment on that? Do they?

Well, let's wait and see. I think what happened on the weekend is an incredible wake-up call. I mean, it's a long time since a presidential candidate or a former president has been shot at. Let's hope this is a reminder that

of just how serious things can get. Let's hope we see, to use Lincoln's immortal words, the better angels of people's natures in the weeks and months ahead. Just before I let you go, Mr Abbott, and I am speaking to the former Prime Minister of Australia, Tony Abbott, there's a book by Stephen March. It's called The Next Civil War, Dispatches from the American Future. Now, this was written in 2022, and his conclusion was the United States...

is heading to a second civil war because it is descending into the kind of sectarian conflict usually found in poor countries with histories of violence. What we've seen over the last 24 hours, is it difficult in your mind then to disagree with him? Well, I do disagree. I don't think America is heading into a civil war. I don't think American politics is at a particularly high ebb at the moment, but...

There's a lot of good in America and I think that yet again what we will see whether it's immediately or in a little time to come, I think what we will see is that amazing capacity of the United States people to regenerate themselves and to improve themselves.

We've seen it time and time again over the last couple of hundred years, and I'm confident we'll see it again. But I do say this, Chris, we need to see it again because the United States is the indispensable country, the indispensable nation, and the U.S. president, regardless of his or her faults or qualities,

is the leader of the free world. In a sense, he's our president too. And that's why it's important that that individual be the best possible individual. One thing I would say, as I was watching the events of yesterday, I was very thankful we're here in Australia. Mr Abbott, thank you.