Minister rules out return of ABCC as CFMEU administration legislation is introduced 07:12

Well, Minister Murray Watt, he is the newly appointed Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. He's on the line. Minister, thanks for your time. No worries, Chris. Good to be with you. Why are the Greens and the Coalition not on board here?

That is a really good question, Chris. I really would have thought that given all of the allegations that we've seen aired in the public in recent weeks, what is very clear that we're seeing infiltration of the construction division of this union and the industry generally infiltrated by bikies and organised crime. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Coalition and the Greens want to drag this out rather than get this legislation passed.

We came to Parliament this week planning to pass this legislation through both chambers of Parliament this week, but now we've got the Coalition demanding Senate inquiries, the Greens demanding all sorts of amendments. I just don't understand why they can't realise we need to act right away rather than drag this out any further. You could just reinstate the ABCC, couldn't you, the Building and Construction Commission?

Well, that is something that the Coalition have talked about, but most of the employer groups who we've been dealing with in the construction industry accept that the real priority right now is enabling the administration of the construction division of the union. We do have issues with the ABCC as the Labor government, and we did abolish it, and that's mainly because it ended up basically focusing on all sorts of minor stuff like stickers on helmets and flags. That's not true, though, Minister.

Well, the prosecutions were undertaken. The ABCC had a 91% success rate when they went to the federal and other courts. I've got a long list of the ABCC's successes, and it's got nothing to do with the stickers, which is the lines, obviously, that the Prime Minister's Office have put

put together for every single minister that's come on this program. Is it true? And look, you guys are trying to clean up the CFMEU. That's a good thing. And I think that the Coalition and the Greens should get out of the way in your attempt to do that. However, do you regret abolishing the ABCC in hindsight now?

No, I don't, Chris, because the very allegations that have triggered all of this work about organised crime and bikies, all of those things happened while the ABCC was in operation. So all of these things were happening under the ABCC's nose. They didn't do anything about it. Organised crime did happen.

expand its network into the industry. And we also saw productivity fell on the construction and work sites while the ABCC was in operation. And since we've abolished it, we're actually seeing less industrial action on construction sites. The other point that's important, though, is that we didn't just abolish the ABCC. We transferred most of its powers and resources across to the Fair Work Ombudsman. So they are now the watchdog

against misbehaviour, whether it be in the construction sector or any other sector of the economy. So on your logic, you'd abolish the Australian Federal Police because there is still crime occurring.

No, I mean, the ABCC was supposed to be a regulator focused solely on the construction sector. And they did a good job. Well, I don't think they did. The Queensland boss, Dave Hunter, he went to jail for two years for receiving $161,000 in home renovations from a developer. Four senior New South Wales officials were fined a near record $1.2 million by the federal court for coercing a crane company into signing a

a union agreement, I could go on and on and on. 91% success rate the ABCC had when it took its cases to the federal and other courts. Nothing to do with stickers on hats. What we could also say, though, Chris, is that at the very same time, we did see organised crime and bikies

gear up and get more involved in the sector, and nothing was done about that. We've seen the footage on the TV shows. We've read the articles. We've heard about it on the radio. And that is why we need to get moving with this legislation, enable administration, and we need the Coalition and the Greens to get on board rather than coming up with delay tactics. It's a terrible argument, but we'll move on. So the three years of administration, is that enough to clean up the CFMEU?

We think it is. I mean, we don't think that any shorter than that would seriously be able to do the job that's required. It's not something that can be done overnight because there's a lot of unpicking to do and a lot of work to do. But we do think three years is an appropriate amount of time. There would always be the ability to amend the legislation down the track if it did need to be expanded. But we do think three years is a reasonable amount of time at this point in the investigation. And what have the Greens said?

Oh, look, you know, they're sort of talking about Senate inquiries and they're not talking about Senate inquiries. They're wanting all sorts of amendments, which, you know, some of which are probably OK and we can think about, but some of which would really undermine the administration. You know, I don't think it's any secret that the Greens...

have had a close association with some elements of the CFMEU in the past, so perhaps that's influencing their thinking. But we can put that aside, work with them if that's what it takes to get the legislation passed. Frankly, I don't really mind in the end if it's the Coalition or the Greens who get on board. We just want to get this legislation passed so we can clean up this union and this industry once and for all.

Does this mean that a government official, though, will become the one effectively running the CFMEU? And given that you claim that there are organised crime elements now within the union, that's a pretty tough task. Do you think that they can get it done?

Yeah, I do, Chris. Obviously, we need to pass the legislation first before we can appoint an administrator, but I would expect that we probably would end up going with Mark Irving, who's the guy who was appointed and nominated by the Fair Work Commission general manager in his application.

He's a very experienced industrial law barrister who's been through these kind of administrations of unions in the past. So I've got a lot of faith in his ability. But look, it is a tough task. There's no doubt about it. This is the strongest action that any government will have ever taken against any union or employer group in the country. But we're up for the task and that's why we want some support from the other parties to get this legislation passed. Well, you know, it's been going on forever. It's hardly been sort of a surprise to anyone anyway.

I think the organised crime stuff is relatively new. I mean, they were exclusive reports from journalists. Yeah, I know. I'm a journalist, trust me. Don't believe everything you say when it says exclusive on it. Before I let you go, Minister, all I'll say is this, just on AUKUS, just a completely different subject, and this has been bothering me a little bit. Why have the United States and the United Kingdom now amended AUKUS

So they can just write to Australia, give us a year's notice and pull out of the deal altogether.

Yeah, look, I've seen some of these reports and frankly, I'm not sure that they're right. I mean, the agreement that was reached last week and signed last week by Richard Miles and Penny Wong simply provided the legal foundations for what had already been agreed, which is, you know, sharing of technology between the three countries, sharing know-how. So, you know, probably one of the other ministers more directly involved knows a bit more than me, but I wouldn't necessarily believe those reports that you've been seeing.

Murray Watt, I appreciate you coming on. Thanks so much. No worries, Chris. Good on you.